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Tuesday, December 04, 2012

Winter Meetings DAY 2 chatter

Will a Mystery Team emerge?
Will Greinke sign?
Will Dickey get traded?
Will anybody get lost in the Opryland Resort?

These questions may be answered….

Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 01:29 AM | 67 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rumors, transactions, winter meetings

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: December 04, 2012 at 09:47 AM (#4316228)
In answer to the questions I'll say that today is Mystery Team day. I predict Greinke signs tomorrow and Dickey will be traded next week.

Tomorrow is the day I wake up and see an update that something of significance happened at like 2AM while I slept. Two years ago that was Carl Crawford, hopefully if the Sox are involved it works better than that.
   2. Anonymous Observer Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4316319)
Will anybody get lost in the Opryland Resort?


If anybody does, I think it would be hilarious if it was Keith Law, considering how much he hates it there.
   3. JJ1986 Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4316332)
I'll guess Greinke doesn't sign with the Dodgers. If he wanted to, he could have gotten that done by now; they're reportedly offering a blank check.
   4. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4316370)
Apparently #6Org is trying to sign a long-term deal with Felix.
   5. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4316398)
If anybody does, I think it would be hilarious if it was Keith Law, considering how much he hates it there.


Is there anything Keith Law doesn't hate?
   6. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4316399)
I feel like if the Mets decide to trade Dickey, the Royals are the most obvious destination. They have the money to extend him, enough valuable prospects to make the deal without selling the proverbial farm, and a desperate need for a good pitcher. I guess it depends somewhat on to what extent you share Rany's crazy optimism, but they look like a team that could win with a few good breaks and that division will never be more winnable.

I kind of feel like if Dickey is traded and it's not to the Royals and not for a ridiculous return, Dayton Moore was asleep at the switch.
   7. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4316405)

Is there anything Keith Law doesn't hate?


Hating things.
   8. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4316418)
Dan Haren to DC for 1/13, or so sez another thread.
   9. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4316420)
Wait, what? $13 million for a pitcher who couldn't pass a physical?
   10. JJ1986 Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4316424)
Wait, what? $13 million for a pitcher who couldn't pass a physical?


They should just throw in a minimum-salary year if he goes on the DL. That will probably work out well.
   11. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4316431)
I wonder if something like Dickey and a prospect to the Royals, Butler to the Orioles, and prospects (maybe Tillman and Schoop?) to the Mets would work.
   12. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4316444)
I hope Butler doesn't go to the Mariners (the two teams are talking). It confuses me when a player plays for two teams with similar uniform colors.
   13. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4316448)
I don't think the Royals have to give up Billy Butler to get Dickey, is the thing.
   14. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4316458)
I wonder if something like Dickey and a prospect to the Royals, Butler to the Orioles, and prospects (maybe Tillman and Schoop?) to the Mets would work.
Acquiring Dickey is a go-for-it-now move. If they're going for it now, why would the Royals trade away a 3-win bat with still unrealized upside?

I mean, "they're the Royals" is a plausible explanation, but it could justify pretty much any trade proposal.
   15. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4316469)
I'm thinking something more like Lorenzo Cain and a couple of their good minor leaguers (i.e., anyone on their prospect list except Wil Myers) can get that deal done. They're still pretty deep in tradeable prospects, I think, and Cain is expendable since Myers needs to play and, let's face it, Jeff Francoeur isn't going anywhere so long as Dayton Moore is in charge.
   16. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4316473)
I'm operating under the assumption that a big reason for the Myers and Butler trade talk is that Moore is under a lot of pressure produce a winning team ASAP (even if not an actual contender). And given that he's a knuckleballer, the Royals may feel that he can be effective for several more years and signed long term. Trading Butler frees up some salary (even though he's signed to a very reasonable contract).

I guess that's a variation on the "they're the Royals" argument, although I also think the royals could be a contender next year with a couple of lucky breaks. They have good position players and a great bullpen. With 2-3 decent starters they'll be in good shape, esp. in their division.

EDIT: And to respond to your point about trading away a 3 win bat...they may feel he's somewhat expendable with Myers coming up.
   17. Bourbon Samurai Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4316477)
Dan Haren to the Nats pleasesme.
   18. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:45 PM (#4316480)
I'm under the assumption Myers' name is being bandied about because Dayton Moore is a horribly bad general manager who looks at his roster and thinks, "well, my outfield is set. Gordon, Cain, Francouer. And I'll be fired if we aren't contenders this year. Myers is expendable."

I also think there's a pretty good chance Alderson doesn't really need to trade Dickey, but is just sitting back and waiting to see if someone gets desperate and makes a stupid offer. Like Wil Myers, for instance.
   19. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4316486)
And to respond to your point about trading away a 3 win bat...they may feel he's somewhat expendable with Myers coming up.
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.
   20. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4316488)
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.


So in other words, definitely don't rule out Moore doing it?
   21. formerly dp Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4316499)
I'm thinking something more like Lorenzo Cain and a couple of their good minor leaguers
I know the Mets need someone to play CF in 2013, but Cain seems like precisely the type of player they should avoid as a return on Dickey. With that name, he sounds like he should be a good player, but there just isn't a lot in his record to suggest he will be.
   22. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4316505)
Should avoid, maybe, but getting at least one player back who can start and be effective for them right now has to be tempting for them. Cain is a pretty sweet glove, too, last I checked, and sweet gloves have a way of making your pitchers look better than they are.
   23. Bourbon Samurai Posted: December 04, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4316543)
My preference for the Nats would be for them to resign Laroche and keep Morse for depth but I find that unlikely.
   24. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: December 04, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4316572)
Myers is a corner outfielder, Butler is a DH. There's no positional overlap. Trading Butler as part of a plan to win in 2013 is pretty much dumb all the way down.

Trading Butler makes perfect sense if you feel that you're going to get more value from the guy you acquire than you would from Butler. Dickey was a lot more valuable this year, and he might be next year (and going forward if he can be extended).
   25. formerly dp Posted: December 04, 2012 at 01:54 PM (#4316578)
Should avoid, maybe, but getting at least one player back who can start and be effective for them right now has to be tempting for them.
Tempting in a bad way-- the return on Dickey should be all about getting back a potential impact player, and if that isn't going to happen, they should just hold him.
Cain is a pretty sweet glove, too, last I checked,
I haven't checked. How good are we talking? It seems like if you're prioritizing defense in order to help your pitchers, there should be cheap, glove-only talent floating around (I'm thinking Dyson would come cheap, can he field or is he limited to running fast?). If that means a hit to the offense for 2013 and 2014, that's fine, not like they're doing much anyway.
   26. JJ1986 Posted: December 04, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4316682)
Urgent and Important Breaking News:

Dbacks sign Eric Hinske.
   27. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4316728)
Just looked up Cain's plus/minus numbers in CF and they're awesome, actually. +14 in less than 500 innings last year, +13 in a similar sample for the Brewers in 2010. From what I recall scouts are high on his defense, too. Cain barely has to hit at all to have above-average value.
   28. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4316730)
In curious news, MLBTR is reporting that the Rangers and Josh Hamilton are making progress on a deal.
   29. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4316734)
Urgent and Important Breaking News:

Dbacks sign Eric Hinske.


Mind. Blown.
   30. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:11 PM (#4316931)
Urgent and Important Breaking News:

Dbacks sign Eric Hinske.


Upton's days are surely numbered in Arizona, now.
   31. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4316965)
The final piece!

But seriously, he's still got that three-year stretch where he went to the World Series every year with a different team - and I was pretty well sold that he'd do it again at SOME point with the Braves. I could see throwing a few bucks at a futures bet on the 'Backs after a move like this. They're currently 40/1 to win the thing.
   32. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4316999)
@pedrogomezESPN

Phillies and Diamondbacks are discussing Justin Upton for Cliff Lee. Money coming to AZ would also be involved.
   33. JJ1986 Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4317002)
Phillies and Diamondbacks are discussing Justin Upton for Cliff Lee. Money coming to AZ would also be involved.


I am very against this move.
   34. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4317018)

Phillies and Diamondbacks are discussing Justin Upton for Cliff Lee. Money coming to AZ would also be involved.


LOLWUT????
   35. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4317020)

Phillies and Diamondbacks are discussing Justin Upton for Cliff Lee. Money coming to AZ would also be involved.


Ha. Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
   36. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4317023)
Oh, and AJ Pierzynski is apparently being pursued by the Yankees, thus leading to an alliance of evil.
   37. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 04, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4317026)
I just clicked into this thread to post that Lee/Upton rumor.

I am pleased to see that, even though I was beaten to the punch, it was met with the appropriate response.
   38. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4317027)
Also: Jason Bay is reportedly close to signing with the Mariners. It's like they're trying to see how low that offense can go.
   39. Swedish Chef Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:02 PM (#4317030)
So in other words, definitely don't rule out Moore doing it?

What prospects has he traded away in dumb deals, or for that matter in any deal at all? I can't remember any.
   40. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4317032)

Also: Jason Bay is reportedly close to signing with the Mariners. It's like they're trying to see how low that offense can go.


Alfonso Soriano is available.
   41. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4317035)
What prospects has he traded away in dumb deals, or for that matter in any deal at all? I can't remember any.

Not a prospect, and not the dumbest trade ever, but Melky Cabrera for Jonathan Sanchez didn't work out for KC.
   42. Swedish Chef Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4317048)
Alfonso Soriano is available.

He is far too good for the Mariners.
   43. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4317057)
I can barely find an example of the Royals trading any prospects at all in the last few years. They traded Derrick Saito and Dan Cortes for Yuniesky Betancourt. They made some minor trades in which they lost such luminaries as Henry Arias, Erik Cordier, Jorge Vasquez, Zach McClellan and Danny Christensen. Then there was the much-lamented incident when they correctly decided to give up on Andy Sisco.

Maybe selling Donnie Murphy to the A's was a mistake. Or trading Jonah Bayliss for Mark Redman.
   44. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4317060)
Apparently the Upton/Lee crazy talk was, well, just crazy talk.
   45. Greg K Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4317063)
Other current rumours:

Ludwick to the Reds
Victorino to the Red Sox for 3/38
Dodgers shopping Harang and Capuano if they land Greinke
   46. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4317064)
They made some minor trades in which they lost such luminaries as Henry Arias, Erik Cordier, Jorge Vasquez, Zach McClellan and Danny Christensen. Then there was the much-lamented incident when they correctly decided to give up on Andy Sisco.


Daniel Gutierrez was once a decent prospect that had a bar fight and they traded him a few weeks later for two Rangers non-prospects. Gutierrez quickly flamed out after that.

Dan Cortes was a bit of a prospect, although he lost much of his luster by the time he was dealt for Yuni.

JP Howell wasn't a prospect, but he went on to become pretty good, and the Royals got Joey Gathright for him. Ugh.

But no, Dayton hasn't really dealt too many prospects. He's not even that terrible at free agents really. His stupidity is in how to assemble a 25 man roster.
   47. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4317069)
Apparently the Upton/Lee crazy talk was, well, just crazy talk.

But it was fun while it lasted, it truly was.
   48. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:26 PM (#4317071)
Oh, apparently there's also a mystery team in on Victorino, Greg.
   49. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:29 PM (#4317076)
I love these mystery teams. How in the world do they keep themselves a secret?
   50. Greg K Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4317084)
Alex Speier now reporting Victorino a done deal. The mystery team now turns its interest to Zack Greinke and figuring out how to televise their games without revealing who they are or where they play.
   51. Flynn Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4317085)
Victorino's not a rumor anymore. Gag.
   52. Gamingboy Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:38 PM (#4317088)
The mystery team now turns its interest to Zack Greinke and figuring out how to televise their games without revealing who they are or where they play.


Just realized something: Who, What, I Don't Know, Why, Because, Tomorrow, Today and I Don't Care play for the Mystery Team.
   53. spike Posted: December 04, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4317098)
Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. labeled the Upton-Lee rumor false, tweets Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com.
   54. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4317297)
It looks like Yunel is on his way to Tampa.
   55. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4317299)
And Wilton Lopez is on his way to Colorado.
   56. Cris E Posted: December 04, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4317310)
So TEX says they're totally going to get either Greinke or Hamilton. Fine, you've got wads of cash spontaneously combusting in your pockets, whatever. If they get the pitcher don't they still need to replace the offense of the departing Mr Hamilton? They're already working around the $16m dessicated remains of Mr Young at DH, so they really can't afford to do nothing. Will a Greinke contract leave dollars for a Swisher? Kubel or Upton from AZ?
   57. Gamingboy Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4317319)
Apparently Orioles are in on every OF left.
   58. JJ1986 Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4317326)
Escobar is for Derek Dietrich; Lopez for Alex White+
   59. puck Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4317327)
So...Wilton Lopez...is he a sinkerball pitcher? Unimpressive K rates, but low walk rate, above avg groundout-flyout ratio. Rockies trade P Alex White (obtained in the Ubaldo trade) and a pitcher "not on the 40-man" for him.

Edit: other guy going to the Astros is P Alex Gillingham.
   60. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:20 AM (#4317331)
Ryan Ludwick close to resigning with the Reds.
   61. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4317332)
Alex White hadn't been performing the greatest in Colorado, but he was the 15th overall pick in 2009. On paper, it seems like a nice infusion of talent into Houston's system.
   62. Honkie Kong Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4317335)
So...Wilton Lopez...is he a sinkerball pitcher? Unimpressive K rates, but low walk rate, above avg groundout-flyout ratio. Rockies trade P Alex White (obtained in the Ubaldo trade) and a pitcher "not on the 40-man" for him.

Edit: other guy going to the Astros is P Alex Gillingham.


Wait, didn't the Phillies trade for Wilton Lopez?
   63. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:31 AM (#4317336)
Lopez for Alex White+


Wow, lucky that deal with Philly fell apart.
   64. puck Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4317342)
It looks like Yunel is on his way to Tampa.

They have to trade Nolasco now, right? Then everyone would be under $3 million for 2013, I think.
   65. Cris E Posted: December 05, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4317344)
Everyone as in total, right? Because Rickey is already the only one not on food stamps at the moment.
   66. puck Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:35 AM (#4317355)
Wow, lucky that deal with Philly fell apart.


The Denver Post article on the trade says the Phillies pulled out of the trade over concern about Lopez's elbow.
   67. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 05, 2012 at 01:44 AM (#4317358)
scooter - sf 3/20

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