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Friday, July 27, 2018

With a Loud Ovation, Baseball Shows Its Whiteness

Let’s pose a counterfactual: Josh Hader is black, and an excavation of his Twitter account reveals that he called whites “crackers,” wrote of his hatred for them and endorsed an organization that engaged in genocidal violence against whites. One of his tweets included a picture of a clenched black fist. That black pitcher had also expressed hatred for gays and made graphic, misogynist statements.

I’m trying to imagine thousands of white fans rising to their feet and giving him a standing ovation, even after he apologizes and blames youthful indiscretion. Or, rather, I’m trying and failing. We know what happened when a few black football players of good character took a knee to protest police violence against black Americans: They were pilloried by the president of the United States and received no standing ovations.

Some are now unemployed.

ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:42 AM | 133 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, racism

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   1. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5716784)
I’m trying to imagine thousands of white fans rising to their feet and giving him a standing ovation, even after he apologizes and blames youthful indiscretion.

Good thing Ray Lewis was only implicated in an actual murder rather than committing the heinous crime of sending tweets that violate thought crime laws.
   2. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5716795)
The general point isn't wrong but I think making it about baseball is incorrect. It's a function of the USA as a nation (see football fans reacting to protests).

I also think the majority of people in the stands probably weren't making a racial point but a "he plays for our team" point. We've seen this as Pat notes with Ray Lewis and also we saw it with Roberto Alomar. Sports fans are absurdly forgiving of their guys. All 30 parks featured "steroids steroids" chants at various players but no one ever got booed in their home park.
   3. Blastin Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:00 AM (#5716796)
1. That's not baseball.
2. Tweeting isn't "thinking." It's an act.
3. This comment section will definitely not be filled by defensive white dudes being defensive.
   4. dejarouehg Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5716812)
Good thing Ray Lewis was only implicated in an actual murder rather than committing the heinous crime of sending tweets that violate thought crime laws.


And then there is Kobe Bryant and his little sex odyssey with an unwilling partner. How did the mostly white fans react to his return. Wonder how the (mostly white) Buccaneer fans will welcome back Jameis Winston......especially if he doesn't suck when he returns?

(From Multiple Sources.) .................... from 2010 to present, the NFL had an average arrest rate (for a population of 100,000) of approximately 2,466, followed by the NBA’s 2,157. Comparatively, professional baseball and hockey players clocked average arrest rates of 553 and 175, respectively, over the same period. Hmmmmmm.

   5. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:24 AM (#5716813)
Is Blastin suggesting that Twitter isn't the bastion of deep thought and contemplation I've been led to believe it is? Nonsense!
   6. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:28 AM (#5716819)
3. This comment section will definitely not be filled by defensive white dudes being defensive.


More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*
   7. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5716825)
I also think the majority of people in the stands probably weren't making a racial point but a "he plays for our team" point. We've seen this as Pat notes with Ray Lewis and also we saw it with Roberto Alomar. Sports fans are absurdly forgiving of their guys. All 30 parks featured "steroids steroids" chants at various players but no one ever got booed in their home park.

SF fans cheer Barry Bonds. Cubs fans would cheer Sammy Sosa (given the chance). Michael Vick got cheered, and all he did was go to prison for killing a bunch of dogs. Mike Tyson is as popular as ever now, because being funny in the Hangover is much more important than going to prison for raping a woman.

But let's say that Brewers fans are racists because they cheered for a white player who expressed remorse about things he said when he was a teenager. (BTW, he's been booed elsewhere. Does that mean that only Milwaukee fans are racist? Or all baseball fans are racist, but some haven't gotten the message yet?)

Is there racism in America? Of course there is. Is everything about racism in America? Of course it's not. People are very, very forgiving of athletes on their own teams - athletes who have done far worse things than Josh Hader ever did.
   8. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:44 AM (#5716828)
Good thing Ray Lewis was only implicated in an actual murder rather than committing the heinous crime of sending tweets that violate thought crime laws.

And then there is Kobe Bryant and his little sex odyssey with an unwilling partner. How did the mostly white fans react to his return. Wonder how the (mostly white) Buccaneer fans will welcome back Jameis Winston......especially if he doesn't suck when he returns?d.

In the long run fans of all races seem to be forgiving of players involved in non-racially related crimes, regardless of the player's race, especially if the player then performs well on the field / court / ice. When it comes to crimes involving sexual assault, the breakdown among how fans react is much more likely to be between men and women than between black and white.

And that still leaves Powell's hypothetical unanswered. Not to mention the contrast between the standing ovation for Hader and the blackballing of Colin Kaepernick for engaging in an entirely peaceful protest.

Just to be clear, I'm not for blackballing Hader. His black teammates accepted his apology and vouched for him, and since they know him and I don't, that's good enough for me.

But a standing ovation? Jesus ####### Christ. And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?
   9. bfan Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5716830)
This article and premises is simply nonsense. #7 above nails it.

Michael Vick is about as odious as they come, and he did what he did as a fully formed adult, and he is revered in Atlanta and has been robustly cheered when he is introduced to Atlanta Falcon crowds. I do not take that as proof that Atlanta people hate dogs.

People want to forgive their local sports heroes.
   10. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5716831)
Stories and columns talking about race and racism are perfect clickbait, which is why we get so many more stories and columns about them now.

As to the substance, baseball is a very whitebread sport -- which I've noted several times before. At this point, it's essentially Whitey's main sport -- certainly middle and post-middle aged Whitey's.
   11. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5716832)
And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?

Apparently the hierarchy of badness is crimes against women << crimes against minorities << crimes against America.
   12. BrianBrianson Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5716833)
3. This comment section will definitely not be filled by defensive white dudes being defensive.


The rulebook requires baseballs to be made of white leather. Using those dayglow yellow ones that you get sometimes in softball would just look too goofy for me. ;)
   13. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5716834)
Is there racism in America? Of course there is. Is everything about racism in America? Of course it's not.


You aren't going to generate any clicks with that perspective, whitey.
   14. Master of the Horse Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:46 AM (#5716835)
   15. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5716836)
But a standing ovation? Jesus ####### Christ. And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?


Have him speak at the DNC in 2020.
   16. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 11:57 AM (#5716846)
Analytics are easily Top Ten in any respectable Things White People Do list. Arguably #1.
   17. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:06 PM (#5716854)

2. Tweeting isn't "thinking." It's an act.
No, it's speech.
   18. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:14 PM (#5716857)
The rulebook requires baseballs to be made of white leather. Using those dayglow yellow ones that you get sometimes in softball would just look too goofy for me. ;)


I learned something fun the other day. Apparently, the National League actually used yellow baseballs in one game in 1938 and a few games in 1939. Here's the box score for the first such game and here's the Brooklyn Eagle game story (sorry if the latter requires a newspapers.com subscription).
   19. DavidFoss Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5716865)
Using those dayglow yellow ones

Tennis was able to switch from white to yellow in the early 70s. Anyone old enough to remember? Was it weird? I see colored balls in golf, too, but it never caught on in the pros.
   20. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:29 PM (#5716870)
Tennis was able to switch from white to yellow in the early 70s. Anyone old enough to remember? Was it weird? I see colored balls in golf, too, but it never caught on in the pros.

I remember being able to buy white tennis balls to play with in the 70s when I was a kid. They also had those half yellow/half orange ones (which were supposed to make it easier to pick up the spin on the ball).

I think in golf colored balls are generally considered to be for amateurs only, but they're still very popular. If you go out and play in a random foursome at the local muni some weekend, odds are 1 of the 4 players will be playing an orange ball. (I never liked the bright yellow balls - they were hard to see in the sky, and seemed to vanish in the grass. The orange ones were OK.)
   21. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 12:32 PM (#5716873)
You aren't going to generate any clicks with that perspective, whitey.

That's my bad. What I meant to say was I can't believe that white America cheered for Josh Hader after he shot Trayvon Martin over being triggered about building a wall to keep out the transgendered jihadist Russians.
   22. dlf Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5716888)
I do not take that as proof that Atlanta people hate dogs.


Well the Techies hate Dawgs. Does that count?
   23. PreservedFish Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:10 PM (#5716892)
From the article, concerning the paucity of black baseball fans:

Like Chicago, New York is a majority minority city. Yet you can sit in the stands at Wrigley or Citi Field some nights and it looks like 1955.


Is this true? I feel like the NY baseball teams have very diverse fanbases.

Have the new fancy expensive stadiums contributed to a whiter audience?
   24. Master of the Horse Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:17 PM (#5716897)
Cubs tickets ain't cheap man

Thursday night game against the Pads and cheapest looks to be $44
   25. bfan Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:20 PM (#5716901)
And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?


I do not think Kaepernick has apologized for offending people with his actions (if he did, I missed it).

The Hader applause relates to redemption and recognizing error and recanting. People are not applauding the tweets from 10 years ago.
   26. Master of the Horse Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5716902)
Why should Kaepernick apologize for anything?
   27. bfan Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:34 PM (#5716910)
Why should Kaepernick apologize for anything?


I am not saying he should. I am saying that you cannot ask why Hader was applauded and Kaepernick was not as some sort of contrast point, because Hader was applauded for his redemptive act and apology, and not the act itself.
   28. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:40 PM (#5716913)
Hader was applauded because he's a Brewer.
   29. Master of the Horse Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:41 PM (#5716914)
because Hader was applauded for his redemptive act and apology, and not the act itself.

I have a shitton of relatives in Wisconsin including Milwaukee and while I would like to believe that I cannot prove it and neither can you. It's just as possible that the people who got the standing ovation started were white nationalist ######## thrilled to find out Hader might be one of their own and then the whole crowd followed because that is what crowds do except when it's the wave because that is ####### stupid.
   30. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:43 PM (#5716917)

And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?

Well, he got one from the ACLU. He was also the GQ "Citizen of the Year" and received the Sports Illustrated Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. Certainly he has gotten plenty of negative reactions as well, but not uniformly so.
   31. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5716918)
More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*

Love to spend my time discussing sports at a place with racist ######## like YR. The best.
   32. bookbook Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:47 PM (#5716919)
You are right, of course. Kaepernick, and anyone else who takes a “stand” against injustice is likely to garner applause at a DNC convention. Anyone in that category would surely be blocked at the entrance to a GOP convention.
   33. Rusty Priske Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:49 PM (#5716921)
As soon as you try to contrast any reaction between Hader and Kaepernick you are on very shaky ground.

Hader said some absolutely reprehensible and unforgivable things.

Kaepernick took a stand AGAINST hateful and horrible thinks.

How should reactions to them be related again?

(And HELL yes, Kaepernick will get a standing o from me if I ever see him.)
   34. Rally Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5716922)
Hader is striking out 16.7 batters per 9. Fans of his team will accept any sign of contrition and welcome him back. Even if he takes inappropriate pride in what the scoresheet looks like when he strikes out the side.

Kaepernick had a 1-10 record as QB in 2016. W-L record is obviously an incomplete way to judge a player on a team sport, especially a sport where 22 players are starters. But the with/without analysis sticks out here. The other QBs they had in 2017 were also 1-10, until they brought in Jimmy Garoppolo who goes 5-0. If CK could through a football like JG, he would be welcomed back and given many standing ovations.
   35. dejarouehg Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5716923)

Is this true? I feel like the NY baseball teams have very diverse fanbases.

Have the new fancy expensive stadiums contributed to a whiter audience?


IMO, this is only an issue of blacks don't have equal opportunity. However, as a community/culture, by and large they have decided that they prefer the NFL and NBA over MLB.

Having gone to games in most of the MLB ballparks, I was pleasantly surprised at the number of minority fans at YS3. CitiField, when the Mets were better -why would anyone go now?- had a much smaller minority presence. Wrigley was definitely very white as was Milwaukee and others.

You could chalk it up to fancy ballparks and the economic consequences but the NBA as a whole is much more expensive than MLB and I (used to) see plenty of black fans at MSG. The AA community has, of their own free will, decided they don't like baseball.

Given the large presence of hispanic and other non-white Americans playing the game now, the implied racism rings very hollow to me, whether the writer is referring to it as a systemic issue in the sport or the predispositions of the fan base.
   36. dlf Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5716924)
I do not think Kaepernick has apologized for offending people with his actions (if he did, I missed it).


He apologized for the initial action when instead of kneeling, he sat during the anthem. After discussing it with members of the military (and others) he clarified his rationale, apologized for the confusion, and changed to kneeling. As far as I know, he hasn't apologized (setting aside for now whether or not he should) for the latter.

I do think that public apologies are important only to those predisposed one way or another. As one data point, to stick with baseball, Mark McGwire's PED apology actually is correlated to a decrease in HOF support.
   37. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5716929)
Hader said some absolutely reprehensible and unforgivable things. 

Reprehensible, sure. But are you really unwilling to forgive someone for idiotic things they said when they were a teenager? I'm not on board with forever judging people based on their ugliest moments from long ago. I certainly wouldn't want to be held to that standard.
   38. dejarouehg Posted: July 27, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5716930)
With respect to Kaepernick, there is nothing more American than protest. But protest is on some levels about sacrifice and to not think that there could be some backlash, on top of the fact that he wasn't a dominant QB anymore, was just as short-sighted -IF HIS GOAL WAS TO CONTINUE PLAYING IN THE NFL- as NFL players being shocked that playing the game could lead to brain injuries.

However, to deny that his lack of NFL employment is not tied into his politics is delusional. (Though he did opt out of his contract, didn't he? I don't think he was cut.)
   39. GordonShumway Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:02 PM (#5716932)
Is this true? I feel like the NY baseball teams have very diverse fanbases.

Have the new fancy expensive stadiums contributed to a whiter audience?


FWIW, in my experience attending games at Barclays and Citifield, the fanbase at the former is a lot more diverse than the latter, even though Nets tickets are generally more expensive than Mets tickets.
   40. bfan Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:04 PM (#5716934)
Reprehensible, sure. But are you really unwilling to forgive someone for idiotic things they said when they were a teenager? I'm not on board with forever judging people based on their ugliest moments from long ago. I certainly wouldn't want to be held to that standard.


This is an incredibly important point; we have to stop defining people by the worst thing they have ever done, and certainly that should be the case when the act was done in the teen years. That was a terrible thing to say; let that person move onto a better viewpoint and be a become a better person.
   41. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:05 PM (#5716935)
The crowds at Citi field are generally pretty white in my experience as well.
   42. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:07 PM (#5716937)
But are you really unwilling to forgive someone for idiotic things they said when they were a teenager?

I would have said no, but then I realized I still haven't forgiven a friend of mine for saying that Holly Hunter should have ended up with William Hurt in Broadcast News.
   43. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5716946)
Well, he got one from the ACLU. He was also the GQ "Citizen of the Year" and received the Sports Illustrated Muhammad Ali Legacy Award.


Which is funny because Muhammad Ali was the biggest racist in modern sports history, having endorsed the murder of interracial couples and called for the ethnic cleansing of several American states so that they could be given to the Negro. Of course none of this sounds quite as bad if you think the white race was created from human-animal hybrids by a black scientist, which he also claimed.
   44. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:26 PM (#5716947)
And where was the standing ovation for Kaepernick?


If he ever gets a chance to play in the NFL again, he'll get a pretty damn big one if it's in a progressive-leaning/blue state/city.
   45. bfan Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:28 PM (#5716948)
I would have said no, but then I realized I still haven't forgiven a friend of mine for saying that Holly Hunter should have ended up with William Hurt in Broadcast News.


Yes, there are some things that you just cannot get over. For me, it was Julia Roberts marrying Lyle Lovett.
   46. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:29 PM (#5716950)
More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*

Love to spend my time discussing sports at a place with racist ######## like YR. The best


Speaking of wack-ass haters, it’s jmurph here to remind everyone how woke he is. Woke as a joke. Miss me with that weak #### homeboy.
   47. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:31 PM (#5716953)
Having gone to games in most of the MLB ballparks, I was pleasantly surprised at the number of minority fans at YS3. CitiField, when the Mets were better -why would anyone go now?- had a much smaller minority presence. Wrigley was definitely very white as was Milwaukee and others.

Given the surrounding neighborhood and the abundance of young and productive black and Latino players on its roster, it's not too surprising that Yankee Stadium would have relatively more minority fans than many other cities.

You could chalk it up to fancy ballparks and the economic consequences but the NBA as a whole is much more expensive than MLB and I (used to) see plenty of black fans at MSG. The AA community has, of their own free will, decided they don't like baseball.

I continue to think that the decline of African Americans in baseball is related to two main factors: The explosion of football and basketball athletic scholarships at colleges that historically were exclusively or overwhelmingly white; and the shift of youth baseball away from casual pickup games and towards highly organized leagues that require more time and money to be involved in. Basketball is SO much easier than baseball to play with just a few people, or even by yourself.

Given the large presence of hispanic and other non-white Americans playing the game now, the implied racism rings very hollow to me, whether the writer is referring to it as a systemic issue in the sport or the predispositions of the fan base.

When you're talking about the attitudes of the fan base, your conclusions are bound to be subjective, and the decline in African Americans on the field has been made up for by foreign players who no more could have played in Babe Ruth's Major Leagues than Satchel Paige or Josh Gibson. But the numbers on managers and GMs don't lie, and it's hard not to imagine that we're seeing a return to the practice of hiring people that many owners are simply more "comfortable" with.
   48. dlf Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:32 PM (#5716954)
Yes, there are some things that you just cannot get over. For me, it was Julia Roberts marrying Lyle Lovett.


Too young to have been put off by Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel?
   49. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:44 PM (#5716960)
I think it also helped that Hader's black teammates stood by him. If the counterfactual in the article happened and the black player's white teammates defended him, I think most fans would forgive him.

I recall that Delmon Young continued to get chances with several teams even after his anti-Semitic attack/rant a few years ago. If he had actually performed, I'm sure the fans of his team would have embraced him.
   50. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5716963)

CitiField, when the Mets were better -why would anyone go now?- had a much smaller minority presence.

I've only been to one game in the last couple of seasons, but my impression is that Citi Field has a lot of Latino fans. It may be located in the most ethnically diverse part of the entire country, and recall that some of the most famous bigoted comments in recent baseball history were about the 7 train to Shea Stadium.
   51. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5716964)
What established player has gotten dismissed by his own fans for non-playing behavior?

Hell my all time favorite is in British soccer. John Terry has done the following;

- mocked US tourists post-9/11
- racially abused an opponent
- slept with the wife of a teammate

And has been hailed as a leader and a legend for his club.

Sports fans are ridiculously forgiving (and I'm including myself in there). If you are good enough there isn't much you can't get away with.
   52. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:52 PM (#5716966)
Speaking of wack-ass haters, it’s jmurph here to remind everyone how woke he is. Woke as a joke. Miss me with that weak #### homeboy.


uh...

   53. puck Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5716967)
Michael Vick is about as odious as they come, and he did what he did as a fully formed adult, and he is revered in Atlanta and has been robustly cheered when he is introduced to Atlanta Falcon crowds. I do not take that as proof that Atlanta people hate dogs.


I'm sure this thread is going full OT politics, but the comment above reminded me of a scene from the 1st season of Atlanta, when Lakeith Stanfield's character Darius goes to a shooting range.



   54. SoSH U at work Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:55 PM (#5716969)
What established player has gotten dismissed by his own fans for non-playing behavior?


Our own Wil Cordero.
   55. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 27, 2018 at 02:56 PM (#5716971)

Speaking of wack-ass haters, it’s jmurph here to remind everyone how woke he is. Woke as a joke. Miss me with that weak #### homeboy.

I'm embarrassed I went to Ole Miss now. YR, I'm not sure who you think you're entertaining with this stuff.
   56. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5716974)
I'm embarrassed I went to Ole Miss now. YR, I'm not sure who you think you're entertaining with this stuff.

He's been doing it for years and no one does anything about it or even calls him out on it. I also just want to underline that this, from YR:
More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*

was directed to Blastin, who is (as he has mentioned on numerous occasions) black. But no no, I'm performing wokeness for calling YR out for constantly saying racist ####. Good times.
   57. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:10 PM (#5716979)
Disappointing. I guess we can't rest around here until this place is an ever decreasing circle of white, middle-aged men. Back to the basketball and soccer thread for me.
   58. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:11 PM (#5716980)
Disappointing. I guess we can't rest around here until this place is an ever decreasing circle of white, middle-aged men. Back to the basketball and soccer thread for me.


what happened to baseballchick? we got too birds stoned with one joint with her posts.
   59. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5716985)
More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*

was directed to Blastin, who is (as he has mentioned on numerous occasions) black.


So? What, is Blastin somehow exempt from snark or pushback because he's black?

That seems ... odd.

YR calls me a fake lawyer or worse a dozen times a day. Am I exempt from snark or pushback? (Answer: No. So then why would Blastin be?)
   60. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5716989)
So? What, is Blastin somehow exempt from snark or pushback because he's black?

That seems ... odd.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
   61. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5716990)
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.


Any substantive response to offer? I mean, you may have missed it, but in large measure mine was a rhetorical question. You said what YR said and then told YR he said it to a black person. So what other conclusion is there to draw?

And by the way, who made you the arbiter of what people can say to Blastin? Was there a vote on that the rest of us missed?
   62. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5716992)
Can't image how big YR's smile must be as he reads all this.
   63. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5716993)
And by the way, who made you the arbiter of what people can say to Blastin? Was there a vote on that the rest of us missed?

I don't recall weighing in on what people can and can't say to anyone, I was just (accurately) pointing out the racist person saying racist things, for the millionth time.

EDIT: Oh christ is this sugarbear's new handle? Am I talking to sugarbear? My god.
   64. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:35 PM (#5716994)
He's been doing it for years and no one does anything about it or even calls him out on it.


Lassus, to his credit, has done so several times in (IIRC) OTP.
   65. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5716996)
I've never gotten the impression that YR is a racist so much as he enjoys getting a rise out of people. And, well, mission accomplished.
   66. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5716998)
I don't recall weighing in on what people can and can't say to anyone,


It's right there in 56.

Blastin snarked in 3C., YR snarked back. You then offered up a double standard based on the fact that Blastin is black. It's plain as day and 56 could mean nothing but that. There's no other reasonable interpretation.

I was just (accurately) pointing out the racist person saying racist things, for the millionth time.


Nope, not even close. YR isn't a racist and he didn't say anything racist on this page. So the things you said were entirely inaccurate. To the degree anyone's been a racist on this thread, it's you. (Again, see 56.) Unless now double standards based entirely on race aren't racist.



   67. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5717000)
I don't pretend to understand your entire deal, but it's an odd way for an adult to spend his time.
   68. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5717001)
65/Dog: “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
He's been called out plenty of times; he clearly relishes it.
   69. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:46 PM (#5717007)
I don't pretend to understand your entire deal, but it's an odd way for an adult to spend his time.


My statements are pretty clear and actually pretty easy to understand. They're written in English and don't involve particularly complicated concepts.

What's actually "odd" here is your racially-based condescension, given that Blastin neither solicited nor needed your racially-based intervention on his behalf. (*)

And then what's not odd, but unfortunately par for the course, was you reacting by calling a non-racist a racist and falsely claiming he's made a bunch of racist remarks -- which he hasn't. Those statements were lies.

(*) And of course pre-empted Blastin from letting us see his own reaction, assuming he was going to make one. This pretty much now happens on virtually every thread he participates in, which has become an abject embarrassment. I mean that in the literal sense. It's embarrassing and discomfiting to witness.
   70. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5717011)
Disappointing. I guess we can't rest around here until this place is an ever decreasing circle of white, middle-aged men. Back to the basketball and soccer thread for me.


I tried back in comment #18 to divert this to a discussion of the fact that the National League used a yellow baseball a few times in 1938 and 1939. I even linked a newspaper article from the time with quotes from at least three Hall-of-Famers, including Babe Ruth - fun fact: Babe Ruth was a coach for the 1938 Brooklyn Dodgers. Although, to be entirely fair, I am, in fact, a white, middle-aged man.
   71. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:53 PM (#5717012)
417. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 25, 2018 at 08:13 AM (#5715472)

ME - You have posted rather frequently on a certain minority's reaction to their treatment.

YR - Your bar for "rather frequently" is so low
Uh-huh.
   72. Lassus Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5717014)
I tried back in comment #18 to divert this to a discussion of the fact that the National League used a yellow baseball a few times in 1938 and 1939.

Honestly, I blame Andy for this one. This didn't need its own thread, it belonged posted in the OTP thread.
   73. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 03:57 PM (#5717015)
Blaming Andy is never a bad idea.
   74. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:04 PM (#5717021)
Too young to have been put off by Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel?

To the contrary. These sorts of marriages give hope that somewhere, someday, there's a leggy supermodel just begging to lavish her affections on a schlub like me.

(It would help if I could sing and perform like Billy Joel, of course. But that's just a minor technicality.)
   75. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5717022)
what happened to baseballchick? we got too birds stoned with one joint with her posts.

I think she kind of lost faith when the Astros moved to the American League. At least she stopped showing up quite as much.

Gotta respect someone who hates the DH so much that she gives up her team fandom rather than endorse it by rooting.
   76. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5717024)
This is an incredibly important point; we have to stop defining people by the worst thing they have ever done,
Except Jeffrey Maier.
   77. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5717025)
by calling a non-racist a racist and falsely claiming he's made a bunch of racist remarks -- which he hasn't

I tell you what. I'll use the garbage search feature for like 2 minutes to find a couple of his greatest hits. Then I'll stick around for precisely one response from you in which you do your bizarre routine of pretending not to understand things. I will then declare you the victor and move on. Sound good?

3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 17, 2016 at 06:57 PM (#5326478)
Him heap big whiner, want wampum.

(That's a pretty common go to for him, just search "wampum" in the search bar. That's from a thread on changing the Cleveland Indians mascot, naturally.)

And maybe this is easier, just to paste the entire thread in which the site's editor actually deleted his comment for a term of service violation (I mean, think how bad you have to get to get to that point here): thread here.
   78. -- Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5717030)
I tell you what. I'll use the garbage search feature for like 2 minutes to find a couple of his greatest hits. Then I'll stick around for precisely one response from you in which you do your bizarre routine of pretending not to understand things. I will then declare you the victor and move on. Sound good?


Nah, not really interested. I've read his material and he's not a racist. And he's pretty much the exact opposite of my ally around here -- in fact I half-expect him to tell me to stay off his side -- so there's nothing tribal at all about that conclusion.

You kind of busted the thread with your racially-based condescending remarks and I've said my peace about it. I'd rather have heard from Blastin than having had to sit through yet another boring-ass cavalcade of wokesplaining and whitesplaining.
   79. The Good Face Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:15 PM (#5717032)
Too young to have been put off by Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel?

To the contrary. These sorts of marriages give hope that somewhere, someday, there's a leggy supermodel just begging to lavish her affections on a schlub like me.

(It would help if I could sing and perform like Billy Joel, of course. But that's just a minor technicality.)


The years haven't been particularly kind to Billy Joel or his music, but he was a huge star back in the 80s.
   80. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5717034)
Too young to have been put off by Christie Brinkley and Billy Joel?


Hey, Billy Joel was cool!
   81. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5717035)
Except Jeffrey Maier.

According to The Good Place, every thing a person does is scored positively or negatively, and at the end of your life, the points are added up to determine your fate.

"Rooting for Yankees" is reasonably shown to be a point deduction, though I thought it was being treated too lightly, as it was treated as a negative along the lines of looking at one's phone mid-conversation, rather than, say, perpetuating genocide.

That said, I have to assume that what Jeffrey Maier did in support of the Yankees results in the kind debit that is hard to overcome.
   82. Man o' Schwar Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5717036)
According to The Good Place, every thing a person does is scored positively or negatively, and at the end of your life, the points are added up to determine your fate.

Everyone who isn't watching The Good Place, go watch it. It's the best comedy on TV by leaps and bounds.
   83. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5717039)
Everyone who isn't watching The Good Place, go watch it. It's the best comedy on TV by leaps and bounds.


It's awesome but I'd have it a close second to Speechless. The thing about Speechless is that it could so easily be a schmalzy, cheesy, after school special type sitcom but it's just a riot.
   84. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5717040)
Like Chicago, and NYC, Milwaukee is also a majority minority city (and like the other two also very segregated), and the black fan representation has never been all that high at Co.Stadium/Miller Park. I've probably attended about 800 games between those two parks, many of them as a food vendor, walking the aisles of all of the sections. I'd even say the Hispanic attendance outpaces Blacks at this point. I'm pretty sure Blacks outnumber Hispanics overall in Milwaukee 2:1. IMO, I think it used to be whiter at the ballpark, its still very white. Bucks draw a much higher % of Blacks to their games than Brewers. As an aside, I don't recall a more racially diverse Brewers roster, which isn't exactly news either.

Fans cheer laundry, boo opponents, and I think what was significant about this instance is the fact that Hader (despite the obvious idiocy of the original remarks, and the neglect to leave them out there) he seemingly immediately accounted for himself. There wasn't a written statement by the team, or him, w undue delay. That and the support of his minority teammates, made this less explosive than perhaps it otherwise could have been for Hader.
   85. dlf Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:25 PM (#5717041)
According to The Good Place, every thing a person does is scored positively or negatively, and at the end of your life, the points are added up to determine your fate.

"Rooting for Yankees" is reasonably shown to be a point deduction ...


I'm guessing Mike Schur - the Producer for Good Place (and Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 99, The Office) as well as Ken Tremendous from Fire Joe Morgan - had to be outvoted by the writing room to keep the number of points deducted down from infinity minus one. His rants about the Yankees on the podcast he does with Joe Posnanski are great.

Edit: I just learned that Schur is Regis Philbin's son-in-law. Took him down a couple of pegs in my book with that knowledge.
   86. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:39 PM (#5717052)
I've never gotten the impression that YR is a racist so much as he enjoys getting a rise out of people.

You're just figuring that out?
   87. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 27, 2018 at 04:41 PM (#5717054)
Blaming Andy is never a bad idea.

Just spell my name right and fire away.
   88. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:10 PM (#5717101)
I tell you what. I'll use the garbage search feature for like 2 minutes to find a couple of his greatest hits. Then I'll stick around for precisely one response from you in which you do your bizarre routine of pretending not to understand things. I will then declare you the victor and move on. Sound good?


I'm perhaps the least "woke" person on this site, and I agree with jmurph on this. I have YR on permanent ignore b/c of his frequent bigotry.
   89. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 27, 2018 at 06:52 PM (#5717133)
Everyone who isn't watching The Good Place, go watch it. It's the best comedy on TV by leaps and bounds.
There's now a Good Place podcast hosted by the actor who plays Sean on the show. It's great.

I'm perhaps the least "woke" person on this site
Not something you wanna brag about.
   90. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:00 PM (#5717140)
Can't image how big YR's smile must be as he reads all this


I just got back from dinner at a nice Chinese restaurant where, honest to god, I didn’t deploy the flapping dickie and tell the waiter “Me so solly!”

Can we get back to discussing the important issues, like what’s wrong with you white people?
   91. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:02 PM (#5717142)
Speaking of wack-ass haters, it’s jmurph here to remind everyone how woke he is. Woke as a joke. Miss me with that weak #### homeboy.

I'm embarrassed I went to Ole Miss now. YR, I'm not sure who you think you're entertaining with this stuff.


Me. I’m entertaining me. You think I should care about entertaining you?
   92. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5717143)
Not something you wanna brag about.

I'm fine with it. I don't do collective guilt, and I find the people most obsessed with "social justice" to be the most illiberal, intolerant, nasty people you want to meet.
   93. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:06 PM (#5717144)
More like wack-ass hater honkeys, am I right my brother?

*raises fist*

was directed to Blastin, who is (as he has mentioned on numerous occasions) black


Didn’t know that. Still don’t really care. I didn’t bring race into the thread after all. The original article started it, and then Blastin had to make racial comments on top of that just to show how woke he was. So very woke.

You white guys are so defensive.
   94. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:07 PM (#5717145)
I'm fine with it. I don't do collective guilt


Makes those Inquisitions look pretty meaningless then doesn’t it.
   95. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:10 PM (#5717146)
I have YR on permanent ignore b/c of his frequent bigotry.


You have me on ignore because you’re a big baby and got tired of having to defend the indefensible, like your claim that there was scientific evidence of crackers magically turning into meat in Poland.
   96. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:12 PM (#5717147)
YR calls me a fake lawyer or worse a dozen times a day


Yeah but there’s a good reason for that.
   97. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:23 PM (#5717154)
never go full retard.
   98. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:25 PM (#5717155)
3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 17, 2016 at 06:57 PM (#5326478)
Him heap big whiner, want wampum.

(That's a pretty common go to for him, just search "wampum" in the search bar. That's from a thread on changing the Cleveland Indians mascot, naturally.)


I did as you asked and didn’t have a single hit from 2016, but I realize the search function is wonky. Actually I can’t find the thread, possibly the same one, where I said if American Indians didn’t want a team named after them we should give the name to the Hebrews.

But surely that has to be balance out by this:

Villageidiom: “A bunch of people wearing "Giants" shirts could be considered culturally insensitive to short people.”

Me, an intellectual: “Forget about the twerps, a hyperactive pituitary is a medical condition, not a mascot!”

You wish you were that woke on endocrinology.

EDIT Hey, here it is! Post 63! I found it by doing a search for “dance the hora”. Photo of the mascot included, don’t miss out.

Now I need to find the post where I linked to a video by Little Mike and Funny Bone, the greatest Native American Dwarf rappers in the world. Now those guys are woke AF.
   99. BDC Posted: July 27, 2018 at 07:28 PM (#5717157)
On the main topic of the thread, I once heard that Woodrow Wilson owned some black golf balls so that he could play in the snow.
   100. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 27, 2018 at 09:35 PM (#5717210)
Billy Joel was never cool.
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