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Sunday, April 08, 2018

With expected start, Zack Wheeler aligns Mets’ long-awaited rotation

The New York Mets have waited years for this rotation.

Zack Wheeler will be recalled from Triple-A Las Vegas to start Wednesday against the Miami Marlins, finally aligning the five-man rotation New York has hoped to use for years.

Mets manager Mickey Callaway announced the right-hander’s upcoming start Sunday. It will mark the first time Noah Syndergaard, Jacob deGrom, Steven Matz, Matt Harvey and Wheeler make a rotation turn together. New York fans have hoped to see that five-man group since Matz debuted in 2015, but the pitchers have never been healthy and effective at the same time.

Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 08, 2018 at 11:19 PM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dreams do come true, mets

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 09, 2018 at 07:38 AM (#5650121)
THEY'RE DOOOOOOMED. JUST LIKE THE FORMATING OF THIS THREAD. DOOOOOOOMED.

(now that that's out of the way, this season has started off on an excellent note! Everyone has pitched well, and their offense looks pretty good albeit probably prone to some boom and bust)
   2. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:07 AM (#5650125)
It will mark the first time Noah Syndergaard, Jacob deGrom, Steven Matz, Matt Harvey and Wheeler make a rotation turn together.

I'll see it when I believe it, not before.

EDIT: Italics fix unsuccessful.
   3. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:38 AM (#5650138)


This is a little like the question of what constitutes "batting around." Do the other 4 need to start after Wheeler's start or is it enough that we get through Wednesday without anyone missing a turn?
   4. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5650139)
Italics fix fail x 2
   5. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5650140)
albeit probably prone to some boom and bust

Yeah, I admit I'm waiting for the latter but enjoying the ride. I cannot believe we won last night.
   6. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:44 AM (#5650142)
My bad guys.

I think this has less to do with what the Mets think of Wheeler, and more with the Mets not wanting to mess around with the bullpen. With the way that pitchers are being used these days, rarely pitching into the 7th inning, the Mets are going to need Lugo and Gsellman to throw regular innings.
   7. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: April 09, 2018 at 08:49 AM (#5650143)
This is a little like the question of what constitutes "batting around." Do the other 4 need to start after Wheeler's start or is it enough that we get through Wednesday without anyone missing a turn?


I think it counts so long as Wheeler gets his start. At that point the four prior pitchers would have been Thor, deGrom, Matz, and Harvey.

I think this has less to do with what the Mets think of Wheeler, and more with the Mets not wanting to mess around with the bullpen. With the way that pitchers are being used these days, rarely pitching into the 7th inning, the Mets are going to need Lugo and Gsellman to throw regular innings.


I like the idea of Gsellman and Lugo as high use middle relief arms, if they act as a latter day Mike Marshall with 100 IP or so over 60 appearances and an average reliever ERA+ that's a huge benefit to the club by keeping workload off of the starters.

Also, it's Italics fix fail x3, since if you quote me you'll see that I also tried to fix the thread in the first post. If Jim comes along and fixes things, the thread might still be broken from one of us.

   8. Accent Shallow is probably a hologram Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:08 AM (#5650147)
</i></I>

You're welcome.
   9. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5650149)
Tsk. Used wrong tags.
   10. PreservedFish Posted: April 09, 2018 at 09:42 AM (#5650157)
I remember debating very vigorously in the "batting around" thread, but I have no idea what side I took.
   11. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 09, 2018 at 10:36 AM (#5650173)
Btw, what is up with Todd Frazier's defense? He was really shaky yesterday with some decisions he made and with a few throws.

It definitely won't last but the starting pitching depth the Mets have right now is great.
   12. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5650176)
I think it counts so long as Wheeler gets his start. At that point the four prior pitchers would have been Thor, deGrom, Matz, and Harvey.

That would be easier to agree with in order, I think. Matz, then Harvey, Thor tonight, deGrom tomorrow, then Wheeler.

To be honest, I feel kinda bad for Wheeler after all this, the expectations for the rotation of the gods is going to be troublesome.
   13. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5650186)
Ages:

Thor - 25
deGrom - 29
Matz - 26
Harvey - 29
Wheeler - 27
   14. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5650190)
They should extend Thor and deGrom. If Harvey is decent this year, I wouldn't object if they gave him something like 3/45. If other teams are willing to do much more than that, let them have at it.
   15. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:09 AM (#5650201)
Honestly, I'd rather pass on Harvey even if he were decent. I'd rather have Wheeler/Gsellman/Lugo try to fill out that spot. I just don't trust his long-term health.
   16. formerly dp Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:17 AM (#5650207)
In spite of the espn commentary: Harvey did not look great yesterday. And we're 2 starts in. I'd like to see a half dozen more before talking about handing Harvey $45 m.

This is fun though. Last night's game is the type we've been conditioned to expect to lose.

The only downside is that A-gon's slam prob bought him another month of regular at bats.

Rosario has no business being in the majors right now. He absolutely can't lay off of anything.
   17. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5650217)
[16]
If Harvey is decent this year, I wouldn't object if they gave him something like 3/45.
   18. formerly dp Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:45 AM (#5650242)
Sorry--fast reading on my phone. What's 'decent' look like for Harvey, in your mind?

I understand that they needed to sign a Colon-style vet to soak up some innings, but I'm not excited about Vargas coming back, and being penciled into the rotation again next year.
   19. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5650244)
If Harvey is decent this year, I wouldn't object if they gave him something like 3/45.


You really think Boras is going to let him settle for that?
   20. PreservedFish Posted: April 09, 2018 at 11:51 AM (#5650247)
Boras let Moustakas settle for like $5 or something.
   21. Adam Starblind Posted: April 09, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5650300)
Right, "let" may not be the issue for Harvey.
   22. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5650310)
I am a little curious what the "keep and pay" lines for Harvey would be. Let's say he ends up 16-10 and 3.92. Is that a work-to-keep or let-walk level?

I guess the question is too general, because it obviously is dependent UPON the money; but does anyone feel like throwing around some acceptable and unacceptable stats and offers for fun?
   23. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 09, 2018 at 01:14 PM (#5650314)
I guess the question is too general, because it obviously is dependent UPON the money; but does anyone feel like throwing around some acceptable and unacceptable stats and offers for fun?


I'd also want to see some peripherals to go with the 16-10/3.92; that line falls square in the middle of the grey area for me.
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 09, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5650344)

I don't really think there's a specific number or performance he needs to hit. I think it's more about not paying for upside. If he's 16-10 with a 3.92 ERA, I'd be willing to pay a fair amount for that. If he does that for half a season and someone else wants to pay him as though he's going to give them a full season, let him walk. If he somehow strings together 8 starts of vintage Matt Harvey in the middle of that 3.92 ERA season, and someone else wants to pay up for the promise that he can return to that form, then let him walk. The Mets need consistent innings eaters more than they need high upside guys, and they should be able to pay market rate for them.
   25. J in the Slope Posted: April 09, 2018 at 01:54 PM (#5650346)
It just seems really hard for Harvey to be a solid pitcher with a SO9 of 6.5 or so in today's game. Possible, just hard. I can't believe he's 29 years old already.
   26. Lassus Posted: April 09, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5650349)
I can't believe he's 29 years old already.

I was more surprised that deGrom was this age.
   27. J in the Slope Posted: April 09, 2018 at 02:14 PM (#5650357)
I was more surprised that deGrom was this age.


I've always thought of deGrom as a late bloomer/position player convert. I remember him being an "old" ROY. I also remember people saying around 2015 when all the young pitchers were pitching well (aside from Wheeler missing the season) that he was the one not to extend because of his age. That it'd be better to just keep him through arbitration and extend the younger guys like Thor (3.24 ERA), Harvey (2.71 ERA), or Matz (2.27 ERA).
   28. Walt Davis Posted: April 09, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5650397)
The Mets have two more years of control over deGrom and, somehow, he's on a very modest arb salary schedule given his quality (just $7.4 in his 2nd arb 2 year). He'll be hitting FA at age 33 which is far from ideal. The Mets are in a good spot to leverage him into a 3-4 year extension if they want. But of course he's a pitcher -- who knows if you want his age 33-35 seasons?

They have another 3 years of control over Thor who would then would be an FA at 29. That's a tougher situation for the Mets to leverage as he doesn't have a lot of incentive (other than injury risk of course) to sign away 2-3 FA years. I'm guessing this one just goes year to year.

Given what we just saw for Lynn and Cobb, I find it hard to believe anybody would rock up with 3/$45 for Harvey even if he duplicated Cobb's 2017 (12-10, 180 IP, 29 starts, 114 ERA+, 6.4/2.2 K/BB). They might -- Cobb having missed almost all of 2015-16 did manage 4/$57 -- but it's probably the top end of what he'll get offered.

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