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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Saturday, July 31, 2010
Arriba! Clemente underrated? Why…I once had some Mas Portell goop bartossed at me for saying he was overrated!
Roberto Clemente: Almost criminally underrated and had he not died heroically in a plane crash in 1972, he’d be even less remembered. Despite amassing 3,000 hits, doing his best work at the plate in the 1960s when pitchers reigned supreme, and also being an outstanding right fielder, Clemente was not included in recent books I reviewed about the 25 greatest baseball players of all-time and the 20 greatest hitters.
Honus Wagner: In five or ten years, Alex Rodriguez will retire and debate will begin anew if he was the greatest shortstop ever. Some will say his power can’t be ignored, others will say the best is Derek Jeter who caused Rodriguez to shift to third base, and a few self-righteous sportswriters will probably pen columns saying Cal Ripken Jr. was more consistent– which is funny because Wagner lasted longer than any of those men and his .328 lifetime average and 3,420 hits is better too.
Kevin Brown: Fans may remember Brown’s $15 million annual contract from the Dodgers or his prickly personality or his being mentioned in the Mitchell Report after he retired. When Brown hits the Hall of Fame ballot later this year, he may become the best pitcher shunned by voters. If Albert Belle peaked with less than eight percent of the BBWAA vote, I don’t see Brown faring much better, no matter his 211 wins, string of dominance from the late 1990s, or his having one of the best Wins Above Replacement ratings of non-inducted pitchers.
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As to Dempsey, I met Jack and have a photo of me and my parents with him in that restaurant. And, hey, he made the top 20! How bad is that. It was hard for me to space out the great iconic athletes of the 1920s, it seemed like every sport had one, and it came out Ruth, Grange, Dempsey/Tunney, with Tilden and Lenglen, and Bobby Jones next.
It's pretty hard nowadays BTW to remember just how iconic the heavyweight champion of the world was, up until the d the gross proliferation of titles the past quarter century or so. Especially when black men held the title pre-integration. The highest rated "forgotten" is Jack Johnson, but when he won the title there were race riots across the land.
I expect grief about DiMaggio/Mantle and Mays as a group. People today don't see DiMag as the same generation but as a type "CF in NY" from 1941 to 1957 was a pretty big thing. Ditto Woods and Palmer, whom I label "the people's choice" versus Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus as "the connoisseur's choice." They're in the 20s.
Oh well, it was a fun little exercise one rainy afternoon. It goes all the way to #200. (100 = Gale Sayers and Walter Payton. 200 = Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivero, subject to review once all the evidence is in [e.g. retirement].)
And there's a team list through #50 (Yankees, Notre Dame football, Brooklyn Dodgers are still #3, Packers, Celtics, UCLA basketball, Globetrotters, Cowboys, Canadiens, Crimson Tide football).
Sammy Baugh is #34. Staubach #93, Larary Mahan and Jim Shoulders are #137, Doak Walker 181.
Tied at 158
Billy Vessels
Tommy McDonald
Steve Owens
Greg Pruitt
Joe Washington
Billy Sims
Roberto Clemente is #57, just for the record, after Arthur Ashe and Althea Gibson and just ahead of Glenn Davis and Doc Blanchard.
I completely agree with that type of pairing, in fact I'd say it shows a lot of insight into the nature of iconic figures. The only real difference between Dimaggio and Mantle / Mays, or Palmer and Woods is the difference in the age groups who most identify with them, and many of your other pairings like Wilt / Russell are nearly inseparable from each other because of rivalry.
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