Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, March 07, 2009

Yahoo: Angels’ Guerrero is a year older than listed

Guerrero’s admission – initially unintentional – came in response to a question about his off-season knee surgery. Manager Mike Scioscia had said the surgery could have the effect of “maybe turning back the clock a couple years” for Guerrero.

Relayed that quote, the affable Guerrero smiled and responded through a translator, “I feel good. I can’t say [like] 25, because, you know, I’m 34. But I feel a lot better. That’s where I’m at right now.”

The Angels’ media guide, among other baseball references, list Guerrero’s birth date as Feb. 9, 1976, which would make him 33.

Guerrero had left the ballpark by the time the inconsistency was discovered. Reached by an Angels executive, Guerrero admitted he was born on the same date in 1975, making him 34. The club said it was aware of Guerrero’s actual birth date and after Friday’s development a team official said this year’s media guide would reflect the correct date.

His age-27 season just became much better.

caspian88 Posted: March 07, 2009 at 01:39 AM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 02:31 AM (#3095051)
Well, erase his records.
   2. Jim Wisinski Posted: March 07, 2009 at 02:32 AM (#3095052)
Well duh. You could tell just by looking at him.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 07, 2009 at 02:46 AM (#3095054)
Gary Matthews Jr. also revealed he is actually 56.
   4. Darren Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:09 AM (#3095062)
So will he be suspended for a year now?
   5. xbhaskarx Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3095074)
Vlad's minor league numbers are much less impressive now, he should be retroactively downgraded by all prospect evaluators.
   6. Dr Love Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:49 AM (#3095076)
I blame Jim Bowden.
   7. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:51 AM (#3095077)
Only a year?
   8. John DiFool2 Posted: March 07, 2009 at 05:16 AM (#3095103)
Wikipedia already has the change.
   9. Frisco Cali Posted: March 07, 2009 at 06:14 AM (#3095125)
Age-gate is the new steroids
   10. Tripon Posted: March 07, 2009 at 06:51 AM (#3095159)
Except performance is not enhanced.
   11. aleskel Posted: March 07, 2009 at 06:56 AM (#3095165)
next Pujols is going to reveal that he's actually Melvin Mora
   12. The Voice of America Posted: March 07, 2009 at 07:32 AM (#3095192)
He should go to jail!
   13. Dash Carlyle Posted: March 07, 2009 at 07:53 AM (#3095197)
No. Jail is too good for him.
   14. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: March 07, 2009 at 07:57 AM (#3095199)
He should have his strike zone taken away.
   15. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:06 AM (#3095200)
Except performance is not enhanced.
Bullshit. If lying about your age wasn't a performance-enhancer, why would athletes do it?
   16. Baldrick Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:28 AM (#3095202)
He should have one year of his baseball career taken away!
   17. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:31 AM (#3095204)
He should have one year of his children's baseball career's taken away.
   18. zonk Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:38 AM (#3095206)
Is this an admission of human growth hormone?
   19. Ryan Lind Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:51 AM (#3095209)
How much does this affect his shot at 500?
   20. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 08:59 AM (#3095213)
How much does this affect his shot at 500?
Well, I guess it makes him a year closer, but I doubt he'll even get to 100, let alone 500.
   21. Jeff K. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:12 AM (#3095215)
########. If lying about your age wasn't a performance-enhancer, why would athletes do it?

Because it makes the contextual value of that performance go up. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that era is a performance enhancer. It's not (at least in the case I'm talking about; if there is a particular quirk of the era that *does* lead to changed raw totals, I suppose you could consider that a performance enhancer.): 30 homers in 1920 is still 30 homers in 2001. The value of those homers is another thing entirely and does bring in context.

Let's say I have a gold wedding band in my hand, and I could sell this generic band for $100. Now say that this is the wedding band used in Gone With the Wind. That bumps what I'll get considerably, up to (made up, of course) $500. Now say that this is a band (that has accompanying documentation to prove the matter) given to Mary Magdalene by Jesus. That makes it worth $10,000.

The ring's "performance" has changed zero. Its value has changed, but it never left my hand or jumped up and down in it.
   22. Baldrick Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:24 AM (#3095217)
Now say that this is a band (that has accompanying documentation to prove the matter) given to Mary Magdalene by Jesus. That makes it worth $10,000.

You've got documentation that proves the existence of Jesus and Mary Magdalene and you're charging $10,000 bucks for a wedding band? I don't think you're in a position to be explaining the concept of "value" to anyone else.
   23. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:24 AM (#3095218)
Because it makes the contextual value of that performance go up. What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that era is a performance enhancer. It's not (at least in the case I'm talking about; if there is a particular quirk of the era that *does* lead to changed raw totals, I suppose you could consider that a performance enhancer.): 30 homers in 1920 is still 30 homers in 2001. The value of those homers is another thing entirely and does bring in context.

Let's say I have a gold wedding band in my hand, and I could sell this generic band for $100. Now say that this is the wedding band used in Gone With the Wind. That bumps what I'll get considerably, up to (made up, of course) $500. Now say that this is a band (that has accompanying documentation to prove the matter) given to Mary Magdalene by Jesus. That makes it worth $10,000.

The ring's "performance" has changed zero. Its value has changed, but it never left my hand or jumped up and down in it.
Nonsense. Saying you're younger than you really are has an exponential effect on your performance. If, for example, Vlad Guerrero had been honest about his age, he would have hit like Wilton Guerrero.

In fact, it's very clear that Vlad Guerrero took all of Wilton Guerrero's baseball talent, and replaced it with a year of his life. That is why Wilton was so mediocre. He had his bodily essence stolen from him.
   24. Jeff K. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:43 AM (#3095222)
I knew Baldrick's post was coming, just like I knew if I said a billion dollars that someone would say something like "A billion dollars for the wedding band of fictional characters?"

And Larry, is #23 supposed to mean that I missed some obvious thing denoting that you didn't mean what you were saying above? Because I still don't see it.
   25. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:48 AM (#3095223)
And Larry, is #23 supposed to mean that I missed some obvious thing denoting that you didn't mean what you were saying above? Because I still don't see it.
Yes, I was parroting the arguments made for HGH being a performance-enhancing drug.
   26. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: March 07, 2009 at 12:27 PM (#3095236)
Nicely played (No. 20) Larry.

Best Regards

John
   27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 07, 2009 at 12:54 PM (#3095241)
Im just wondering why this didn't get corrected during the great post 9/11-Visa age readjustment

I mean, they got everybody else.
   28. Darren Posted: March 07, 2009 at 01:52 PM (#3095252)
Seriously, am I remembering wrong? Didn't they give the players some period when they were supposed to confess? And if they were found out later, they would suspend them for a year?
   29. Scott Kazmir's breaking balls Posted: March 07, 2009 at 01:55 PM (#3095254)
Put an * next to all his stats.
   30. bookbook Posted: March 07, 2009 at 02:47 PM (#3095265)
Jesus existed. His marriage to Mary Magdalene is more difficult to establish - no photos from the ceremony have survived.
She wasn't a prostitute according to most experts - that was a (deliberate?) misreading.

An authentic gold band from 2,000 years ago is probably worth more than $10,000, even without the inscription "Jesus hearts Mary"

Magdalene controversy
   31. Philippe Posted: March 07, 2009 at 02:48 PM (#3095266)
They missed Miguel Tejada as well. I think that players who were already well-established in the US or Canada were not probed about their documents the way minor leaguers were.
   32. Randy Jones Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:09 PM (#3095269)
They missed Miguel Tejada as well.

Depends on who you mean by they. Everything I read said that Tejada's legal documents (driver's license, etc) had his correct age on them. MLB and the teams and record books continued to list his incorrect age though and the press apparently never noticed either. Is it possible that the situation is the same with Guerrero?
   33. Frisco Cali Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:24 PM (#3095272)
"Jesus hearts Mary"

Or "Jesus bonked Mary"
   34. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3095284)
Is it possible that the situation is the same with Guerrero?

was thinkin the same...mebbe his visa & papers "are in order" but the Angels decided to carry him as one year younger

wouldn't know WHY they would do that though
   35. KingKaufman Posted: March 07, 2009 at 05:36 PM (#3095346)
I confess I am actually 3/8 of an inch taller than my listed height. I'm 5-11 and 3/8, but my height has always been listed as 5-11. Stretch and straighten and think tall thoughts as I might, I could never quite hit 5-11-1/2, and it sounds so pedantic to say you're 5-11 and THREE EIGHTS of an inch. I mean, especially at my age, 45 and three quarters.

I feel so much better now. Like a weight's been lifted.

Oh, about my listed weight ...
   36. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: March 07, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3095351)
Well, I guess it makes him a year closer, but I doubt he'll even get to 100, let alone 500.


Why not? His top PECOTA comps are Methesulah and Otis Nixon. I'm pretty sure the latter was 125 when he retired from baseball. Man, was that guy looked old.
   37. base ball chick Posted: March 07, 2009 at 05:46 PM (#3095352)
i checked up on the age thing when tejada was outed.

if i understand rightly it is only a crime if the person does not give the correct info to the govt - and the team is not required to legally verify anything the person gives them. and of course they don't HAVE to change any info in the media guides.

and we ALL know that the teams do NOT list correct info about many players' height/weight neither (jeff bagwell is not any more 6' tall than i am and neither is roy oswalt)
   38. robinred Posted: March 07, 2009 at 05:47 PM (#3095353)
not any more 6' tall than i am


Yeah, but you clear it easily when you have on the dominatrix boots.
   39. Walt Davis Posted: March 07, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3095545)
The important question is whether the teams know. When Soriano was disclosed, the Rangers said they knew about it before trading for him. The Angels here claim to have known about it already. I don't recall what happened with Tejada.

Anyway, if the punishment is for Vlad to be suspended for a year, I'm fairly sure the Angels will decline to press charges.
   40. Jeff K. Posted: March 07, 2009 at 10:09 PM (#3095570)
the team is not required to legally verify anything the person gives them

Well, to be fair, yes they are. Unless the Houston Astros Baseball Club wants to argue that "verifying identity" under the IRCA, including meeting the identification presented rules outlined in the process, doesn't consist of actually reading the documents handed to you. But it's moot overall, for the reason you point out.
   41. Miko Supports Shane's Spam Habit Posted: March 07, 2009 at 10:28 PM (#3095588)
I wonder when BB-ref will be updated.
   42. Downtown Bookie Posted: March 08, 2009 at 12:20 AM (#3095697)
Everything I read said that Tejada's legal documents (driver's license, etc) had his correct age on them. MLB and the teams and record books continued to list his incorrect age though and the press apparently never noticed either.


Perhaps I'm being unfair, but doesn't it seem as if that phrase ("and the press apparently never noticed either") should be attached to every controversial baseball story? Especially if we define "the press" as the beat writers who cover the teams on a daily basis? Maybe this is just my perception and not reality, but it seems as if most reporters didn't know about age-gate, or steroids, or amphetamines, or what-have-you in baseball, until the general public also knew it; even though:

1) the evidence apparently wasn't all that difficult to uncover; and,
2) knowing such things and reporting them to the public is (technically speaking) the reporters' job.
   43. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: March 08, 2009 at 12:34 AM (#3095701)
1) the evidence apparently wasn't all that difficult to uncover; and,
2) knowing such things and reporting them to the public is (technically speaking) the reporters' job.


Are you saying that you think it's the beat writer's job to sneak into the players' lockers and rifle through their belongings? Or that it's their job to do investigative reporting, finding official documents for every player and cross-checking them with MLB published data? I don't think it's either one.

Now I'm not saying that it's that hard to do the second thing, but a sports editor would probably have to decide to do that and assign an investigative reporter to do it.
   44. Downtown Bookie Posted: March 08, 2009 at 02:06 AM (#3095730)
Are you saying that you think it's the beat writer's job to sneak into the players' lockers and rifle through their belongings?


It's my understanding that a great deal of reporting is accomplished without having to resort to this method of investigation.

Or that it's their job to do investigative reporting...


Yes. The teams can hire their own publicists.

...finding official documents for every player and cross-checking them with MLB published data? I don't think it's either one.


Fair enough. It's a matter on which we will have to agree to disagree.
   45. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 08, 2009 at 02:12 AM (#3095733)
I think the press most definitely missed the boat on steroids, and perhaps initially on age-gate. But the beat guys were not the people who could have been expected to get those particular stories. That was a story that should have been turned over to guys at the paper/station who are actually trained in investigative work. Most beat guys really don't have that kind of experience.

As for this, I think most newspaper editors would deem it a rather pointless waste of manhours to assign someone to track each player's listed date with any actual records in the hopes of finding a few stragglers who eluded the post 9/11 crackdown. And I think they'd be right. The payoff (OMG, Vlad is actually a year older) just isn't worth the effort. This actually seems like a job better suited to those of us who can (and want to) perform this kind of silly task on our own time.
   46. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 08, 2009 at 03:04 AM (#3095756)
Daylight savings time must be screwing with BTF. From the Lounge page:

A Nod Is as Good as a Wink . . . to a Blind Lounge--March 7-8, 2009
Posted: 11 months, 4 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes ago
   47. Right As Rain Posted: March 08, 2009 at 05:21 AM (#3095773)
Anybody else think Carlos Zambrano is next?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Dingbat_Charlie
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Newsblog2015 Competitive Balance Lottery Results
(8 - 11:51pm, Jul 23)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogCSN: Enough is enough — time to move on from Ryan Howard
(38 - 11:49pm, Jul 23)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogAs shifts suppress offense, time has come to consider a rule change
(75 - 11:45pm, Jul 23)
Last: Sunday silence

SABR - BBTF ChapterWho's going to SABR??
(82 - 11:44pm, Jul 23)
Last: kthejoker

NewsblogGoldman: Eliminating the shift a bandage for a phantom wound
(13 - 11:40pm, Jul 23)
Last: boteman is not here 'til October

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 7-23-2014
(41 - 11:39pm, Jul 23)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogCameron Maybin Suspended 25 Games
(17 - 11:36pm, Jul 23)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(365 - 11:36pm, Jul 23)
Last: J. Sosa

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(848 - 11:26pm, Jul 23)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(2867 - 11:24pm, Jul 23)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogGeorge "The Animal" Steele Mangles A Baseball
(130 - 11:01pm, Jul 23)
Last: Dock Ellis on Acid

NewsblogRubin: deGrom for NL rookie of the year?
(35 - 10:32pm, Jul 23)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogNats Fan in Colorado Shows Support with Curly W BEARD
(2 - 10:29pm, Jul 23)
Last: boteman is not here 'til October

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-23-2014
(20 - 9:07pm, Jul 23)
Last: BDC

NewsblogKorea's Hanwha Eagles have robots for fans who can't attend
(6 - 8:26pm, Jul 23)
Last: cardsfanboy

Page rendered in 0.2272 seconds
53 querie(s) executed