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Wednesday, August 03, 2011

Yahoo News: Ozzie Guillen: Harsh words for actor Sean Penn

Plus his thoughts on Urbina, and the Arizona immigration law.

Dag Nabbit: secretary of the World Banana Forum Posted: August 03, 2011 at 10:37 PM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1. SteveM. Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:53 AM (#3892380)
I'm with him. I mean have you ever seen Shanghai Surprise?
   2. Bruce Markusen Posted: August 04, 2011 at 04:18 AM (#3892389)
Good for you, Ozzie. Good for you.
   3. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: August 04, 2011 at 05:48 AM (#3892428)
I seem to remember Ozzie being chummy with Chavez in the past.

Still, good for him (and I love Sean Penn).
The Urbina thing takes so of the shine off this thou.
   4. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: August 04, 2011 at 06:01 AM (#3892432)
Guillen had previously described his feelings about Chavez as 'ambivalent'.
   5. Bhaakon Posted: August 04, 2011 at 06:41 AM (#3892436)
The Urbina thing takes so of the shine off this thou.


I don't know, I'd need more context. Ozzie's comment suggests that he feels the rule of law is a joke in large parts of Venezuela, so from that perspective Urbina's decision to take the law into his own hands would be much more justified (how he went about doing it might be another story).
   6. Joe Kehoskie Posted: August 04, 2011 at 08:59 AM (#3892444)
Hey, isn't Ozzie Guillen a U.S. citizen now? What's up with him referring to Hugo Chavez as "my president"? A certain White Sox fan might beg to differ.
   7. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 09:15 AM (#3892447)
Just when I thought I couldn't like Ozzie more. #### Sean Penn. I cannot ####### stand that guy. I wish he'd stayed in Iraq to be a human shield for Saddam and gotten blown the #### up and I was 100% against that war!
   8. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: August 04, 2011 at 09:52 AM (#3892451)
In a related story, RMc just finished reading a Bloom County book in which Sean Penn punches out Steve Dallas. Good times, good times.
   9. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 11:47 AM (#3892458)
In a related story, RMc just finished reading a Bloom County book in which Sean Penn punches out Steve Dallas. Good times, good times.

I remember that! Man, I loved Bloom County back in the day.
   10. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 12:25 PM (#3892472)
He didn't just punch Steve, he bludgeoned him with his forehead.
   11. tfbg9 Posted: August 04, 2011 at 12:43 PM (#3892475)
Sean Penn is just another shrimpy, guilt ridden, nepotism douche.
   12. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 04, 2011 at 12:48 PM (#3892477)
nepotism


Well, even if he was connected, he's a damn fine actor. But the other words, it's hard to argue. :)

I always use attention-loving actors to get my political opinions.
   13. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 12:52 PM (#3892478)
It is true that all actors should be ignored when it comes to politics. ALL of them.
   14. Lassus Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:01 PM (#3892485)
It is true that all actors should be ignored when it comes to politics. ALL of them.

There is no reason actors should be ignored on politics more than any other human being, though, so...
   15. rfloh Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:04 PM (#3892488)
" Shooty grows weary of your Backpfeifengesicht Posted: August 04, 2011 at 08:52 AM (#3892478)
It is true that all actors should be ignored when it comes to politics. ALL of them.
"

What about foul mouthed baseball managers?
   16. Dewey, Crackpot and Soupuss Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:06 PM (#3892489)
Isn't this old news? Guillen's been ripping on Sean Penn for a couple of years now.
   17. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:06 PM (#3892490)
There is no reason actors should be ignored on politics more than any other human being, though, so...

Naw, on this issue I'm willing to compromise with conservatives. Let's ignore all actors and sports figures, too, while we're at it.
   18. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:07 PM (#3892491)
What about foul mouthed baseball managers?

It depends on how entertaining they are. Ozzie's entertaining but a bit overrated, I think. I prefer the grizzled humor of Jim Leyland.
   19. Greg K Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:13 PM (#3892497)
Hey, isn't Ozzie Guillen a U.S. citizen now? What's up with him referring to Hugo Chavez as "my president"? A certain White Sox fan might beg to differ.

I'm fuzzy on immigration law, do you necessarily have to renounce your original citizenship to become an American citizen?

I've read that technically you do, but most foreign countries don't recognize that and treat the person as a dual citizen. (And that the US government doesn't really do anything about it).

Of course leaving aside all that, if I became a citizen of another country for whatever reason I don't think I'd just shut off the part of me that was Canadian. Mr. Harper would still be MY Prime Minister, unfortunately.
   20. BourbonSamurai Is a Lazy Nogoodnik Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:28 PM (#3892512)
He didn't just punch Steve, he bludgeoned him with his forehead.


Oh man, I loved Bloom County. I read all those before I had any idea who Sean Penn or Caspar Weinberger or half the people he talked about were.
   21. OsunaSakata Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:31 PM (#3892514)
It is true that all actors should be ignored when it comes to politics. ALL of them.


Abraham Lincoln tried that advice.
   22. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:36 PM (#3892520)
Oh man, I loved Bloom County. I read all those before I had any idea who Sean Penn or Caspar Weinberger or half the people he talked about were.

Me, too. The politics and some of the cultural stuff was over my head, but it just looked funny. I loved the full color Sunday strips.

Abraham Lincoln tried that advice.

Too soon!
   23. Greg K Posted: August 04, 2011 at 01:47 PM (#3892529)
Abraham Lincoln tried that advice.

Speaking of movies and thinly veiled political agendas, The Conspirator sure sucked.

I thought James McAvoy, Kevin Kline and Rory Gilmore would = smash hit!
   24. Matthew E Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:00 PM (#3892543)
If Ozzie Guillen and Sean Penn can't get along, what chance do the rest of us have?
   25. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:01 PM (#3892545)
If Ozzie Guillen and Sean Penn can't get along, what chance do the rest of us have?

Do any of us get along?
   26. Matthew E Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:12 PM (#3892551)
Do any of us get along?


I guess we don't!
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:16 PM (#3892553)

I'm fuzzy on immigration law, do you necessarily have to renounce your original citizenship to become an American citizen?


IIRC, only for certain countries we are not so friendly with. I believe you can have dual citizenship for places like Canada and the UK. My wife had to renounce her citizenship to Laos though. OTOH, I don't think my grandfather had to renounce citizenship from South Korea.
   28. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:20 PM (#3892559)
I guess we don't!

Oh yeah, #### you!
   29. RJ in TO Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:21 PM (#3892562)
Oh man, I loved Bloom County. I read all those before I had any idea who Sean Penn or Caspar Weinberger or half the people he talked about were.


Then you really need to drop some cash on the hardcovers that IDW is releasing. They're doing the entire Bloom County in a 6-volume run. Volume 5 is due out in the next couple months.
   30. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:26 PM (#3892567)
Then you really need to drop some cash on the hardcovers that IDW is releasing. They're doing the entire Bloom County in a 6-volume run. Volume 5 is due out in the next couple months.

Has it aged well, you think? Or will it be like watching old A-Team reruns and realizing you wasted your life from the ages of 9-11?
   31. BDC Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:26 PM (#3892568)
do you necessarily have to renounce your original citizenship to become an American citizen?

As AG#1F notes, there are as many possible scenarios as there are different pairs (or more) of countries involved. The US may have an official legal/diplomatic opinion in many cases, but if your native country is OK with your keeping your passport, voting, or doing whatever else their citizenship brings with it, it's not like Homeland Security is necessarily going to charge around stopping naturalized US citizens from doing it: "Sorry, you voted in the elections for the Estonian Riigikogu, we'll have to deport you now."
   32. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:45 PM (#3892585)
Isn't this old news? Guillen's been ripping on Sean Penn for a couple of years now.

Yeah, but now Ozzie is jealous as Penn was banging Scarlett Johannsson.
   33. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:46 PM (#3892587)
There is no reason actors should be ignored on politics more than any other human being, though, so...

This. I don't really care what Sean Penn thinks about the issues of the day, but the same goes for 99% of humanity.
   34. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 02:52 PM (#3892593)
This. I don't really care what Sean Penn thinks about the issues of the day, but the same goes for 99% of humanity.

My larger point is that the people who reflexively bash the political activism of actors and celebrities don't really mean they dislike the political activism of actors and celebrities.
   35. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:03 PM (#3892604)
Oh man, I loved Bloom County. I read all those before I had any idea who Sean Penn or Caspar Weinberger or half the people he talked about were.


Bloom County was one of the very best comic strips in the history of American newsprint, every bit as good as "Peanuts" and "Calvin and Hobbes". What female could resist such entrancing lyrics penned by Billy and the Boingers:

Let me graze upon your veldt
Let me stomple your albino
Let me nibble on your buds
Baby I'm your love rhino
   36. RJ in TO Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:04 PM (#3892605)
Has it aged well, you think? Or will it be like watching old A-Team reruns and realizing you wasted your life from the ages of 9-11?

It's aged fairly well. There are certainly some dated references, but there's still a lot of highly enjoyable insanity packed in there.
   37. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:06 PM (#3892607)
Has it aged well, you think? Or will it be like watching old A-Team reruns and realizing you wasted your life from the ages of 9-11?


I think it has aged amazingly well, and if you were a mere lad when you read it the first time you'll enjoy it even more when a bit of historical distance and a better idea of whom the different characters were spoofing. I have the first 3 IDW volumes and they're excellent.
   38. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:08 PM (#3892612)
What female could resist such entrancing lyrics penned by Billy and the Boingers


Deathtöngue rules
   39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3892618)
I'm fuzzy on immigration law, do you necessarily have to renounce your original citizenship to become an American citizen?

I've read that technically you do, but most foreign countries don't recognize that and treat the person as a dual citizen. (And that the US government doesn't really do anything about it).
Correct on all counts. The oath you take to become a US citizen includes "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen."

However, whether you're a citizen of country X is determined by the laws of country X, not the laws of any other country. Thus, if your former country doesn't recognize your renunciation, then it will continue to treat you as a citizen. The U.S. doesn't "do anything about it," but there isn't really anything the U.S. can do. Except nuke country X. What the U.S. does, however, is treat you as a U.S. citizen, not a "dual citizen." In other words, it insists that for the purposes of dealing with the U.S., you are a citizen of the U.S. with all the rights of U.S. citizens and none of the rights that the U.S. might give to foreigners. You pay taxes as a U.S. citizen, you can be drafted like a U.S. citizen, compelled at gunpoint to buy Obamacare like a U.S. citizen, and must use your U.S. passport when entering or leaving the U.S.
   40. andrewberg Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3892619)
I was hoping Ozzie was also mad about Sean Penn stealing Mickey Rourke's oscar for The Wrestler. I'll settle for this, though.
   41. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:16 PM (#3892627)
How I love to watch the morn,
With golden sun that shines,
Up above to nicely warm
These frosty toes of mine.

The wind doth taste of bittersweet
Like jasper wine and sugar
It must have blown through others' feet
Like those of Caspar Weinberger
   42. BFFB Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:18 PM (#3892630)
Yep. The current Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, had to publicly renounce US Citizenship because he didn't want to travel on a US passport and objected to being forced to do so.
   43. Lassus Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:22 PM (#3892633)
I think it has aged amazingly well, and if you were a mere lad when you read it the first time you'll enjoy it even more when a bit of historical distance and a better idea of whom the different characters were spoofing. I have the first 3 IDW volumes and they're excellent.

Likewise, and I'm looking forward to the 4th.

I do wonder how it would read to a smart 14-year-old today, though. It holds up well to US, but we were reading it at the time.
   44. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:24 PM (#3892636)
"Lucifer, do yer duty!
Slam my head, shake yer booty!
Wham, bam, thank you Nell,
I'm on the Amtrak to hell
   45. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:39 PM (#3892644)
It is true that all actors should be ignored when it comes to politics. ALL of them.


Especially Reagan.
   46. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 04, 2011 at 03:40 PM (#3892647)
I'm with Ozzie.

Has it aged well, you think? Or will it be like watching old A-Team reruns and realizing you wasted your life from the ages of 9-11?


Like a lot of people here, I didn't get many of the topical references when I read it as a kid. Now a lot of the references don't make sense because they're long forgotten. So it's just the same as it ever was!

It's available online, if you want to read a few strips and see what you think.


Deathtöngue rules


Oh man, somewhere I still have the flexidisk that came with Bloom County Bootleg or whatever it's called. The book where Deathtöngue mimic the cover art from The Joshua Tree. "I'm a Boinger" (which sort of sucks) backed with "U-Stink-But-I-?-U". The B-Side is an awesome encomium to a woman who "looks like hell" in her "polyester pantsuit":

You make me sick!
(Way-o way-o way-o)
You make me sick!
You really stink, girl!
You make me sick!
(Way-o way-o way-o)
You make me sick!
[tuba farts]
But I love you.

Edit: Fixed the title
Edit Edit: The song is originally by some band called Mucky Pup, it's on Youtube, and it kind of sucks too.
   47. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 05, 2011 at 01:48 AM (#3893154)
Berkeley Breathed's official favorite "Bloom County" strips.

I'm pretty sure "Pear pimples for hairy fishnuts" has help up well.
   48. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: August 05, 2011 at 03:59 AM (#3893209)
Run with the Devil,
Shout Satan's might,
Deathtöngue, Deathtöngue,
The beast rises tonight!

I think that's right ...
   49. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 05, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#3893217)
Matt Damon's pretty awesome!
   50. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 05, 2011 at 04:58 AM (#3893219)
However, whether you're a citizen of country X is determined by the laws of country X, not the laws of any other country. Thus, if your former country doesn't recognize your renunciation, then it will continue to treat you as a citizen. The U.S. doesn't "do anything about it," but there isn't really anything the U.S. can do. Except nuke country X. What the U.S. does, however, is treat you as a U.S. citizen, not a "dual citizen." In other words, it insists that for the purposes of dealing with the U.S., you are a citizen of the U.S. with all the rights of U.S. citizens and none of the rights that the U.S. might give to foreigners. You pay taxes as a U.S. citizen, you can be drafted like a U.S. citizen, compelled at gunpoint to buy Obamacare like a U.S. citizen, and must use your U.S. passport when entering or leaving the U.S.

Yep. The current Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, had to publicly renounce US Citizenship because he didn't want to travel on a US passport and objected to being forced to do so.


Is this true? As a British citizen and US citizen, I've always been under the impression that I could get a British passport if I wanted to (and were willing to travel to Washington DC to apply for it). I have a US passport, but would prefer to use a British passport if I was travelling in Europe. I have no problem with always using a US passport when entering or leaving the US, but would like the choice of using a British one to travel between, say, Britain and France.
   51. Greg K Posted: August 05, 2011 at 06:00 AM (#3893230)
Is this true? As a British citizen and US citizen, I've always been under the impression that I could get a British passport if I wanted to (and were willing to travel to Washington DC to apply for it). I have a US passport, but would prefer to use a British passport if I was travelling in Europe. I have no problem with always using a US passport when entering or leaving the US, but would like the choice of using a British one to travel between, say, Britain and France.

I think he means requiring a US passport to travel to the US. As far as the USA is concerned you're a citizen of USA and that's it. I think it's possible to have a UK passport as well, but if you use it to travel to the US and they find out you're a citizen of the US as well they won't be impressed. The French authorities probably don't care which one you use (provided they are both valid).
   52. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: August 05, 2011 at 11:44 AM (#3893252)
Just watched this video for the first time, and it confirmed every hunch I've ever had about Ozzie Guillen, all of which were good. There wasn't a bad moment in the whole interview, and he did it without resorting to any canned or "political" answers.

His point about Penn was simple and eloquent: In so many words, Penn is nothing but a Potemkin Village tourist, whose information about Venezuela is based on seeing and hearing only what he and the Venezuelan government want him to see and hear. Every modern dictatorship from the time of Stalin has had useful idiots like Penn to prop up its propaganda machine, and I loved Guillen's offer to take Penn around Venezuela for two weeks to show him what the country is really like. I also liked the fact that within a matter of a few seconds, he was able to say that Chavez was still "my president" even though "I don't like it", make the distinction, and then quickly return to the real issue he had with Penn without missing a beat. When you add to it his words on immigration, you had one of the wiser five minutes of off the cuff political commentary ever to come out of the mouth of a professional athlete this side of Bill Bradley.
   53. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 05, 2011 at 12:11 PM (#3893261)
I loved Guillen's offer to take Penn around Venezuela for two weeks to show him what the country is really like.

I say this without irony...I would LOVE Guillen to take me on a tour of Venezuela. It looks like a beautiful country.
   54. Morty Causa Posted: August 05, 2011 at 12:47 PM (#3893270)
I don't think I'd just shut off the part of me that was Canadian. Mr. Harper would still be MY Prime Minister, unfortunately.


While you were in the US Harper would still be your prime minister? In what sense?

Thus, if your former country doesn't recognize your renunciation, then it will continue to treat you as a citizen. The U.S. doesn't "do anything about it," but there isn't really anything the U.S. can do.


If my former country, X, wanted to, say, draft me into the military, I'd expect the US to do something about it. Although, if I conceded that the president of country X was still my president, maybe not. I would think that might be grounds for the US to seek to have your citizenship revoked.
   55. Morty Causa Posted: August 05, 2011 at 12:48 PM (#3893271)
I say this without irony...I would LOVE Guillen to take me on a tour of Venezuela. It looks like a beautiful country.


With or without Chavez's okay?

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