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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Saturday, August 13, 2011Chicago Tribune: Big Z ejected in 10-4 loss, cleans out locker
Sabathia also allowed five HRs tonight, but there’s no indication he’s retiring.
NTNgod
Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:26 AM | 64 comment(s)
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1. The District Attorney Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:47 AM (#3899048)I assume at some point before he left he said \"#### this ####### game. I ####### quit."
At this point I think we'll all gladly let him rip up the contract.
If he does in fact retire the Cubs will have 18 million dollars off the books for next year.
Hell, you might as well sign Fielder and Pujols with that kind of extra cash floating around.
It's really hard to see how the Cubs can live with him after this.
Wouldn't surprise me to see him do it. Though I'd bet on his having second thoughts.
Without Zambrano's salary I'm thinking the Cubs could get at least three of those guys.
The stresses of a season of futility caused the ultra competitive Zambrano to snap.
(And then the usual stuff about how it'll be so much better next year)
DB
I did see him at Sears about an hour ago.
Btw..this is why Baseball is the best sport. So many games, so many chances for something crazy like this. Every day it's something new.
As a Cardinals fan, I'm praying he'll be talked out of this. Giving the Cubs an extra $25M to court Albert with is pretty much a doomsday scenario.
It would be something like "I've got 25 million more to give to Pujols? How does 8 years 200 million sound to you, Pujols?" Never mind that the next closest is 6 years/130 million with options.
Well, if they do go crazy on him, I'm hoping for something more like 10Y/$300M. In that case, it's up to Mo to play brinksman, and lose, daringly.
(I have zero confidence in Mo actually pulling anything like that off, even head to head with an incompetent like Hendry, but I can hope).
Meche also retired because he was hurt, and he could have sat on the DL collecting money but chose not to, which is an aspect missing here.
Papelbon
Pujols
Fielder
Sabathia
Go crazy.
Didn't the Chicago press write that the Cubs should waive Zambrano and then let him go with no compensation if he got claimed last year? Zambrano is doing the Cubs a favor if he sticks with it. Its about $15 million more in Hendry's budget to spend on the next crappy player he can sign now.
It's not so bad if you read the full quote.
He was, in many ways, too good for this organization. He often appeared to care more about winning than the clowns in the front office, and if he didn't respect them, that's a personal if not professional credit to him. It's amazing that he lasted this long in an organization that was more interested in the p.r. advantages of throwing him under the bus every chance they got instead of harnessing his competitiveness. I'll miss him.
#### Hendry. Free Big Z.
Sounds like Quade is done with Z, can't say as I blame him for that...
1 Carlos Zambrano - 35.7
2 Sammy Sosa - 21.9
3 Aramis Ramirez - 20.6
4 Derrek Lee - 20.0
5 Kerry Wood - 18.3
6 Mark Prior - 13.7
7 Ted Lilly - 11.3
8 Ryan Dempster - 11.6
9 Carlos Marmol - 9.2
10 Matt Clement - 8.8
Tallest midget and all, but still.
Top 10 BB-Ref WAR among all pitchers, 2001-2010 (pitcher WAR includes batting)
1 Roy Halladay - 53.7
2 Johan Santana - 47.0
3 Roy Oswalt - 44.6
4 CC Sabathia - 43.0
5 Mark Buehrle - 42.0
6 Tim Hudson - 39.4
7 Carlos Zambrano - 35.7
8 Javier Vazquez - 34.5
9 Mariano Rivera - 33.6
10 Randy Johnson - 33.5
Intentionally selective endpoints and all, but still.
***
Would be a shame if it ended like this.
And yes, fine player. I didn't expect him to be the real survivor from that oh so talented group of young pitchers.
Seriously, Zambrano has languished as a Cub long enough. Ask Barry Sanders what it's like to be one of the only bright spots on a perennially terrible team. Not fun. I wouldn't wish being a Cub from 2001-2011 on my worst enemy. Even the good years were followed by miserable playoff collapses. Why did Quade leave this guy in after the back to back homers? Don't you know who you are dealing with? Quade is the one who needs to retire.
IANAL but I'm pretty sure telling the team trainer you quit does not count as resigning from the firm.
his infamous "we sucks" postgame rant
They're 51-67 and that's only because of a rather miraculous winning streak. "Sucks" seems an accurate assessment of this team.
And why do some players (or Ozzie Guillen) get to say "we suck" and get praised for it while other get tossed under the bus? What the hell, with many fans/media it seems perfectly OK for Logan Morrison to say Hanley Ramirez sucks.
wonderful opportunity for the organization to get better.
Has this veteran seen the starters the Cubs have had to trot out there this year? I think I'd rather put up with Ivan the Terrible's personality than see Casey Coleman, Rodrigo Lopez or Ramon Ortiz take the mound again.
A couple days later he files for unemployment and the company's response was that he abandoned his job, because the company never formally informed him in writing that his job was terminated, and his supervisor did not have the authority to terminate employees without HR approval. Then when he didn't show up for work the next afternoon, he was terminated the next day by HR for job abandonment. So, says the company's unemployment filing, they don't owe him a cent.
Anyway, I don't know if any of you guys have ever known a genuine hothead, but a genuine hothead blows up every other day and says crazy things, and 99.4% of the time they show up again the next day as if nothing ever happened. Which is very likely exactly what Zambrano will do, once he's had a night's sleep and his agent has talked to him.
On what calendar?
One official from a rival team said teams are leery of the big price tag on the out year as well as the long history of blowups, meltdowns and finger-pointing, including his infamous "we sucks" postgame rant earlier this year
???
That's a bizarre example to pull out. He said they suck when they do suck. Ozzie Guillen says worse things than that on a regular basis. Better off using the Michael Barrett fight or the Derrek Lee dugout altercation as your random example.
Seriously, Zambrano has languished as a Cub long enough. Ask Barry Sanders what it's like to be one of the only bright spots on a perennially terrible team. Not fun.
From 2002-2011, (Z's full seasons with the team), the Cubs have five winning seasons and five losing seasons, with three postseason appearances and one miss. They're record in that time is 780-794.
Alledged is the new whinging.
2003-06: 861.0 IP, 142 ERA+, 3.8 BB/9, 8.0 K/9, 19.3 bWAR (4th in MLB in that span)
2007-11: 845.1 IP, 114 ERA+, 4.0 BB/9, 7.2 K/9, 13.0 bWAR (32nd ")
By the way, I like to think he cleaned out his locker and left/"retired" in semi-slow motion as Frank Sinatra's "My Way" played.
The Cubs are running with it. They're doing their best to make it hard for him to come back.
Holy crap, another Cub legend goes crazy and gets run out of town! It's probably that guy's fault!
Hollandsworth jumped the gun going after Ramirez. That's for 2012.
How in the world is he getting run out of town? The Cubs and the fans of the Cubs have supported Zambrano for years and have given him many chances. Zambrano had a bad day and then cleaned out his locker and said he was retiring. If anything negative is happening in this situation Zambrano has caused all of it and is responsible for all of it.
Somewhere, Michael Barrett is laughing.
Or the other arseclown Carlos Pena, or the other other arseclown Marlon Byrd, or the other other other arseclown Alfonso Soriano, or the other other other other arseclown Matt Baker.
How do you come up with that from that link?
costing the Cubs their shot to climb over Pittsburgh and into fourth place.
Really, if there ever was a time to bail, this is it. Save the salary for the rest of this year and next, and try out some of the other pitchers.
EDIT: Which is now what 44 says. The tone/content of that article have changed a little bit + I came on a bit strong (I was thinking punish severely / dissuade him from staying, not release / cancel contract.)
If it is:
* keep him;
* work with him to try to control his issues;
* work with the rest of the team;
* don't make statements that publicly embarrass him.
If it's not:
* trade him
* release him/explore your legal options under the contract.
There's no sense getting emotional about this. And fans getting emotional and calling him names is silly.
We don't have any worth trying out. Our current 5th starter is Rodrigo Lopez. Yes, that Rodrigo Lopez. He "won" the job over Ramon Ortiz, Doug Davis and Casey Coleman. They were needed because Andrew Cashner is hurt and Randy Wells was hurt (and has sucked since coming back). Our top pitching prospect is probably Trey McNutt who has 66 IP in AA with a 4.77 ERA (and I'm guessing has been hurt given he's got those 66 IP in 18 "starts"). We've got a couple of reasonably promising kids promoted to Iowa, one of whom has a K rate of 5.5 and the other has a walk rate of 5.5 so I'm going with "not ready yet." Outside of Coleman and Ortiz, our lowest AAA starter ERA is 5.82.
If you want a good laugh, check out some of the walk rates of the Iowa Cubs.
This is what they did with Bradley at the end of his magical run with the Cubs, isn't it?
I've been a perennial defender of Zambrano and his antics through the years. As I've said elsewhere, though, these outbursts become less tolerable with the decreasing quality of Zambrano's stat line. He can be a joy to watch, both on the mound and at the plate, and others are absolutely correct when they say at least no one can dispute that Zambrano gives a damn. But this type of behavior becomes insult to injury when he's making the type of money he is and posting the results that he is.
All of this considered, part of me will still be sad to see Zambrano go, even if it frees up a ton of money for Hendry to do something idiotic with like sign Carlos Pena to a big multi-year deal. Carlos, for all of his erratic behavior, has been one of the few stable elements of a franchise that has been something of a revolving door for most of its players and coaches over the last 10+ years.
There's no anger in baseball!
They should give Archer a shot and see if he is any good.
Wow
If it's not management's job to try to maintain employee morale and support strong performance, why have management at all?
Zambranoing.
Kind of, yeah (suspended, not R-Listed, iirc). Heck, they've already done it with Zambrano last year.
Morrison is 4 for his last 8 - and got sent down to AAA tonight. Maybe it wasn't as ok as it seemed, to the Marlins anyway...
#80 What's the evidence that these type of actions are good for performance? There have been plenty of successful teams with clubhouse issues after all. That's the central point of "Will the McMeeting Come to Order"
Lefty Grove jumped the As after a frustrating loss. Since his record at the time was 25-3, the As just gave him a day to cool off.
Dunno, maybe it's reasonable to decide Zambrano isn't worth the headaches (or the money) now
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