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Saturday, August 13, 2011

Chicago Tribune: Big Z ejected in 10-4 loss, cleans out locker

Carlos Zambrano had a rough night, serving up five home runs and trailing 8-1 in the fifth before being ejected by plate umpire Tim Timmons for allegedly throwing at Chipper Jones. The Cubs lost 10-4.

After the game, Zambrano’s locker was already cleaned out and the pitcher told a team trainer that he had retired.

Cubs manager Mike Quade says Zambrano “walked out” on the team. Quade said he is “really disappointed” in Zambrano and said “he’s talking about retiring.” Said Quade: “I can’t have a guy walking out on 24 guys, that’s for damn sure.”

According to STATS Inc., Zambrano became the third Cubs pitcher since 1955 to serve up five homers in a game, joining Ismael Valdez (‘00) & Steve Stone (‘74). Warren Hacker also gave up five homers in a game in 1954.
...
Alfonso Soriano hit a two-run double in the sixth after jogging out of the box thinking it was a home run…

Sabathia also allowed five HRs tonight, but there’s no indication he’s retiring.

Johnny Damon, Casey Kotchman and Kelly Shoppach all connected in the third inning for three of Tampa Bay’s five solo home runs against CC Sabathia, and David Price again came out on top in a matchup of these elite lefties, lifting the Rays over the New York Yankees 5-1 Friday night.

With a full moon looming over the famed Yankee Stadium frieze in right field, light-hitting Elliot Johnson and Evan Longoria also homered in Tampa Bay’s fifth straight win.

 

NTNgod Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:26 AM | 64 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, cubs, game recaps, rays, yankees

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   1. The District Attorney Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:47 AM (#3899048)
After the game, Zambrano’s locker was already cleaned out and the pitcher told a team trainer that he had retired.
Well, that's peculiar.
   2. Mash Wilson Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:49 AM (#3899050)
Just another day in Z-World.
   3. Kyle S Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:50 AM (#3899051)
Z wasn't exactly the epitome of class tonight, but he deserves a better send off than this one. Here's hoping he doesn't mean it.
   4. Mash Wilson Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:51 AM (#3899052)
You're worried he might mean it?

I assume at some point before he left he said \"#### this ####### game. I ####### quit."
   5. Transmission Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:55 AM (#3899055)
Z has been publicly flirting with the idea of early retirement for most of this season and, I believe, a good part of last year. He seems crazy enough, and disinterested in baseball enough, to do it.
   6. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#3899056)
Z wasn't exactly the epitome of class tonight, but he deserves a better send off than this one. Here's hoping he doesn't mean it.

At this point I think we'll all gladly let him rip up the contract.

If he does in fact retire the Cubs will have 18 million dollars off the books for next year.


Hell, you might as well sign Fielder and Pujols with that kind of extra cash floating around.
   7. Mattbert Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:56 AM (#3899058)
With a full moon looming over the famed Yankee Stadium frieze in right field, light-hitting Elliot Johnson and Evan Longoria also homered in Tampa Bay’s fifth straight win.
I think I would've put "Evan Longoria" before "light-hitting Elliot Johnson" in that sentence, just to avoid confusion.
   8. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:05 AM (#3899061)
I have been a huge fan of Carlos and I think he's received a lot of unfair or misdirected criticism.

It's really hard to see how the Cubs can live with him after this.
   9. Ron J Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:05 AM (#3899062)
#3 Dunno. I think going out in a blaze of anger seems sort of thematically consistent. And he's been talking about walking away from the game (obviously only occasionally) for years now.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him do it. Though I'd bet on his having second thoughts.
   10. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:06 AM (#3899063)
How much would Jose Reyes, Prince Fielder, Carlos Beltran, and CC Sabathia cost?

Without Zambrano's salary I'm thinking the Cubs could get at least three of those guys.
   11. Ron J Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:08 AM (#3899065)
#8 Dead easy to spin this in a semi-positive way if the Cubs wanted to. Something on the order of:

The stresses of a season of futility caused the ultra competitive Zambrano to snap.

(And then the usual stuff about how it'll be so much better next year)
   12. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:11 AM (#3899067)
Those damn union members putting in their 10 years of service and then quitting.
   13. Downtown Bookie Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:16 AM (#3899074)
I'm sure that Todd Hollandsworth will find a way to blame this on Aramis Ramirez.

DB
   14. Dale Sams Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:17 AM (#3899077)
I assume at some point before he left he said \"#### this ####### game. I ####### quit."


I did see him at Sears about an hour ago.



Btw..this is why Baseball is the best sport. So many games, so many chances for something crazy like this. Every day it's something new.
   15. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:23 AM (#3899081)
McCoy- plus about $6M for the rest of this year.

As a Cardinals fan, I'm praying he'll be talked out of this. Giving the Cubs an extra $25M to court Albert with is pretty much a doomsday scenario.
   16. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:26 AM (#3899085)
With Hendry at the helm, hell yeah, it would be.

It would be something like "I've got 25 million more to give to Pujols? How does 8 years 200 million sound to you, Pujols?" Never mind that the next closest is 6 years/130 million with options.
   17. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:40 AM (#3899093)
With Hendry at the helm, hell yeah, it would be.

It would be something like "I've got 25 million more to give to Pujols? How does 8 years 200 million sound to you, Pujols?" Never mind that the next closest is 6 years/130 million with options.


Well, if they do go crazy on him, I'm hoping for something more like 10Y/$300M. In that case, it's up to Mo to play brinksman, and lose, daringly.

(I have zero confidence in Mo actually pulling anything like that off, even head to head with an incompetent like Hendry, but I can hope).
   18. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:01 AM (#3899106)
This is insane. That said, Gil Meche was praised for retiring before his contract ended. Doubt Big Z will get the same reception.
   19. NTNgod Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:06 AM (#3899113)
Meche retired in January - that's not really the same thing as bailing in the middle of the season, and not telling anyone besides the trainer.

Meche also retired because he was hurt, and he could have sat on the DL collecting money but chose not to, which is an aspect missing here.
   20. Dale Sams Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:06 AM (#3899116)
Ortiz
Papelbon
Pujols
Fielder
Sabathia

Go crazy.
   21. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:16 AM (#3899122)

Meche retired in January - that's not really the same thing as bailing in the middle of the season, and not telling anyone besides the trainer.


Didn't the Chicago press write that the Cubs should waive Zambrano and then let him go with no compensation if he got claimed last year? Zambrano is doing the Cubs a favor if he sticks with it. Its about $15 million more in Hendry's budget to spend on the next crappy player he can sign now.
   22. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:18 AM (#3899126)
I'd just like to point out that there was absolutely nothing "alledged" about Zambrano's throwing at Chipper. He was clearly throwing at Chipper because he *wanted* to get tossed. He quit on the Cubs after Jose Constanza's liner to LF cleared the wall. You could see it on his face. After Freeman and Uggla went back to back, he expected to be pulled. Quade wouldn't come and get him so he threw at Chipper until Timmons ran him.
   23. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:50 AM (#3899139)
After the game, Zambrano’s locker was already cleaned out and the pitcher told a team trainer that he had retired fewer hitters than he had hoped for.


It's not so bad if you read the full quote.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:51 AM (#3899140)
Not knowing what else Z may have said, I don't like that Quade quote in the excerpt. Quade is better with "he blew his stack after picthing like crap, I'll get in touch with him tomorrow after he's calmed down and go from there." Instead Quade immediately makes it a bigger controversy and makes it a question of whether Z quit on the team.
   25. NTNgod Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:01 AM (#3899146)
Sun-Times version:
Hendry, who was not with the team, said late Friday night that he had not talked to Zambrano. "We will respect his wishes and honor them," Hendry said, "and move forward."

Zambrano’s agent, Barry Praver, didn’t return any messages Friday night.

Zambrano, who has another year at $18 million left on his contract and a no-trade clause he has suggested he might waive, drew no interest from contending teams leading up to last month’s non-waiver trade deadline, according to sources.

One official from a rival team said teams are leery of the big price tag on the out year as well as the long history of blowups, meltdowns and finger-pointing, including his infamous "we sucks" postgame rant earlier this year in which he singled out teammate Carlos Marmol for a blown save.

While several teammates were publicly supportive of Zambrano, many have expressed weariness over his long list of actions that have undermined the team.

If he doesn’t return, it’s not likely to break many hearts in the clubhouse. Even Friday night, one veteran called the circumstances a "wonderful opportunity for the organization to get better."
...
"It’s a bad night, and that’s allowed," said a fuming Quade, who added he didn’t know if Zambrano would be accepted back at this point if he tried to return. "To have done whatever he did and tell people goodbye — we’re losing a game 10-4, and there’s 24 guys that aren’t happy about it and he’s gone, and that’s not right.

"Whatever your thoughts are after a tough outing, you don’t leave your teammates. To hell with me. You don’t leave your teammates."
   26. Brian C Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:39 AM (#3899152)
Well, all I can say is that I'm sorry if it ends this way for Z. He's been the most fun Cub to watch for a long stretch of the last decade, and whatever else you might say about him, he was always competitive and always played with passion and effort. For all the complaints about the Cubs' lack of fundamentals and hustle, Z was almost entirely blameless in these two areas. He ran out more grounders than Ramirez and Soriano combined, and he fielded his position reasonably well. He played with intelligence until such time as his emotions got the best of him, and while I can't excuse his breakdowns, at least you always knew he gave a ####. Indeed, if he's gone for good, this team will be suffering from a severe giving-a-#### deficit come tomorrow morning. (Also, it will mean a lot of Ramon Ortiz starts, since this awful team has no one on the farm that can take his spot in the rotation. And even if they did, they're too stupid to call him up and let him play.)

He was, in many ways, too good for this organization. He often appeared to care more about winning than the clowns in the front office, and if he didn't respect them, that's a personal if not professional credit to him. It's amazing that he lasted this long in an organization that was more interested in the p.r. advantages of throwing him under the bus every chance they got instead of harnessing his competitiveness. I'll miss him.

#### Hendry. Free Big Z.
   27. Chipper Jonestown Massacre Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:55 AM (#3899154)
Not knowing what else Z may have said, I don't like that Quade quote in the excerpt.


Sounds like Quade is done with Z, can't say as I blame him for that...
   28. Sweet Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:25 AM (#3899159)
Top 10 BB-Ref WAR among Cubs players, 2001-2010 (pitcher WAR includes batting)

1 Carlos Zambrano - 35.7
2 Sammy Sosa - 21.9
3 Aramis Ramirez - 20.6
4 Derrek Lee - 20.0
5 Kerry Wood - 18.3
6 Mark Prior - 13.7
7 Ted Lilly - 11.3
8 Ryan Dempster - 11.6
9 Carlos Marmol - 9.2
10 Matt Clement - 8.8

Tallest midget and all, but still.

Top 10 BB-Ref WAR among all pitchers, 2001-2010 (pitcher WAR includes batting)

1 Roy Halladay - 53.7
2 Johan Santana - 47.0
3 Roy Oswalt - 44.6
4 CC Sabathia - 43.0
5 Mark Buehrle - 42.0
6 Tim Hudson - 39.4
7 Carlos Zambrano - 35.7
8 Javier Vazquez - 34.5
9 Mariano Rivera - 33.6
10 Randy Johnson - 33.5

Intentionally selective endpoints and all, but still.

***

Would be a shame if it ended like this.
   29. Ron J Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:00 AM (#3899161)
#28 I think the shame would be for him to go out like Steve Carlton (16-37 with an ERA+ of 80 in his 40s). I think it's very much on message as it were for him to go out in a controversial manner.

And yes, fine player. I didn't expect him to be the real survivor from that oh so talented group of young pitchers.
   30. Dan Contilli Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:39 AM (#3899178)
Full moon, Friday the 13th. Zambrano's meltdown and retirement(?) was nearly in complete synchronicity with Dennis Rodman's Hall of Fame induction speech-which was a meltdown of a completely different kind. Weird day. Speaking of Rodman, didn't Zambrano have dyed blonde hair a few years ago? They might be the same guy.

Seriously, Zambrano has languished as a Cub long enough. Ask Barry Sanders what it's like to be one of the only bright spots on a perennially terrible team. Not fun. I wouldn't wish being a Cub from 2001-2011 on my worst enemy. Even the good years were followed by miserable playoff collapses. Why did Quade leave this guy in after the back to back homers? Don't you know who you are dealing with? Quade is the one who needs to retire.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM (#3899179)
"We will respect his wishes and honor them," Hendry said, "and move forward."

IANAL but I'm pretty sure telling the team trainer you quit does not count as resigning from the firm.

his infamous "we sucks" postgame rant

They're 51-67 and that's only because of a rather miraculous winning streak. "Sucks" seems an accurate assessment of this team.

And why do some players (or Ozzie Guillen) get to say "we suck" and get praised for it while other get tossed under the bus? What the hell, with many fans/media it seems perfectly OK for Logan Morrison to say Hanley Ramirez sucks.

wonderful opportunity for the organization to get better.

Has this veteran seen the starters the Cubs have had to trot out there this year? I think I'd rather put up with Ivan the Terrible's personality than see Casey Coleman, Rodrigo Lopez or Ramon Ortiz take the mound again.
   32. The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:04 PM (#3899181)
   33. Mash Wilson Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:26 PM (#3899186)
This reminds me of an incident I just talked to someone about yesterday. Her husband was working in a factory (moved from out of state to take this job) and his boss was a slave-driving maniac who spent most of his own day running petty personal vendettas, taking occasional breaks to scream at people to work faster, don't take more than one bathroom break a day, and so on. They got into a scream-fight one evening that ended with the supervisor yelling "get out of here, you're fired!" and the employee yelling back "fine, good riddance" and perhaps some swearing, and walked out the door and went home. This was probably two hours before the end of the shift.

A couple days later he files for unemployment and the company's response was that he abandoned his job, because the company never formally informed him in writing that his job was terminated, and his supervisor did not have the authority to terminate employees without HR approval. Then when he didn't show up for work the next afternoon, he was terminated the next day by HR for job abandonment. So, says the company's unemployment filing, they don't owe him a cent.

Anyway, I don't know if any of you guys have ever known a genuine hothead, but a genuine hothead blows up every other day and says crazy things, and 99.4% of the time they show up again the next day as if nothing ever happened. Which is very likely exactly what Zambrano will do, once he's had a night's sleep and his agent has talked to him.
   34. Tim McCarver's Orange Marmalade Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:39 PM (#3899189)
"Full moon, Friday the 13th."

On what calendar?
   35. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:46 PM (#3899190)
Concur with #26. To some extent anyway. I dunno if I'd call him "too good for this organization" but Z is worst off in a place that places PR above all else. And that's what the Cubs do.

One official from a rival team said teams are leery of the big price tag on the out year as well as the long history of blowups, meltdowns and finger-pointing, including his infamous "we sucks" postgame rant earlier this year

???

That's a bizarre example to pull out. He said they suck when they do suck. Ozzie Guillen says worse things than that on a regular basis. Better off using the Michael Barrett fight or the Derrek Lee dugout altercation as your random example.

Seriously, Zambrano has languished as a Cub long enough. Ask Barry Sanders what it's like to be one of the only bright spots on a perennially terrible team. Not fun.

From 2002-2011, (Z's full seasons with the team), the Cubs have five winning seasons and five losing seasons, with three postseason appearances and one miss. They're record in that time is 780-794.
   36. Lassus Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:51 PM (#3899193)
I'd just like to point out that there was absolutely nothing "alledged" about Zambrano's throwing at Chipper.

Alledged is the new whinging.
   37. zachtoma Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:56 PM (#3899194)
It's been a long time since Carlos Zambrano was legitimate #1 starter, though he continued to be thought of as one -

2003-06: 861.0 IP, 142 ERA+, 3.8 BB/9, 8.0 K/9, 19.3 bWAR (4th in MLB in that span)
2007-11: 845.1 IP, 114 ERA+, 4.0 BB/9, 7.2 K/9, 13.0 bWAR (32nd ")
   38. Gamingboy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 01:50 PM (#3899213)
This is, like, what, the fourth time he's left the team?

By the way, I like to think he cleaned out his locker and left/"retired" in semi-slow motion as Frank Sinatra's "My Way" played.
   39. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: August 13, 2011 at 01:51 PM (#3899214)
World class d-bag, end of story. What a shocker that nobody was interested in trading for this arseclown.
   40. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 13, 2011 at 01:54 PM (#3899216)
Holy crap, another Cub legend goes crazy and gets run out of town! It's probably that guy's fault!
   41. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:55 PM (#3899230)
IANAL but I'm pretty sure telling the team trainer you quit does not count as resigning from the firm.

The Cubs are running with it. They're doing their best to make it hard for him to come back.

Holy crap, another Cub legend goes crazy and gets run out of town! It's probably that guy's fault!

Hollandsworth jumped the gun going after Ramirez. That's for 2012.
   42. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:36 PM (#3899250)
Holy crap, another Cub legend goes crazy and gets run out of town! It's probably that guy's fault!

How in the world is he getting run out of town? The Cubs and the fans of the Cubs have supported Zambrano for years and have given him many chances. Zambrano had a bad day and then cleaned out his locker and said he was retiring. If anything negative is happening in this situation Zambrano has caused all of it and is responsible for all of it.
   43. bfan Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:44 PM (#3899312)
I am sure the Cubs have their fingers crossed, hoping he disappears into the sunset. 13 million for 83+ OPS pitching, independent of the disgraceful behavior, is no bargain. It is time this fat, out-of-shape, pampered baby hit the road. If it is so hard having to be a pitcher for this generally .500 team, let him make another living.

Somewhere, Michael Barrett is laughing.
   44. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:57 PM (#3899318)
   45. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:07 PM (#3899322)
What a shocker that nobody was interested in trading for this arseclown.

Or the other arseclown Carlos Pena, or the other other arseclown Marlon Byrd, or the other other other arseclown Alfonso Soriano, or the other other other other arseclown Matt Baker.
   46. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:13 PM (#3899324)
re-44

How do you come up with that from that link?
   47. Srul Itza Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:27 PM (#3899330)
that's not really the same thing as bailing in the middle of the season. . . ,


costing the Cubs their shot to climb over Pittsburgh and into fourth place.

Really, if there ever was a time to bail, this is it. Save the salary for the rest of this year and next, and try out some of the other pitchers.
   48. akrasian Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:00 PM (#3899341)
On behalf of Dodger and Met fans, I wish to thank the Cubs for taking back the negatively melodramatic title so quickly. Between this and the Hollandsworth/Ramirez dustup, the spotlight is back where it belongs. Kudos!
   49. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:29 PM (#3899346)
Cubs to put Z on DQ list for 30 days. (w/o pay)

EDIT: Which is now what 44 says. The tone/content of that article have changed a little bit + I came on a bit strong (I was thinking punish severely / dissuade him from staying, not release / cancel contract.)
   50. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:53 PM (#3899350)
"He's been doing a lot of things, not once or twice. Gotta think a little bit more," Alfonso Soriano said on Saturday. "Big man, but mentally he's weak."
   51. SouthSideRyan Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:58 PM (#3899351)
Soriano apparently followed Z into the clubhouse and went off on him following the ejection.
   52. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:07 PM (#3899353)
The fact that some talented players have anger management issues is not exactly shocking. The calculus for the team should be simple: Is it worth putting up with him?

If it is:
* keep him;
* work with him to try to control his issues;
* work with the rest of the team;
* don't make statements that publicly embarrass him.

If it's not:
* trade him
* release him/explore your legal options under the contract.

There's no sense getting emotional about this. And fans getting emotional and calling him names is silly.
   53. Walt Davis Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#3899363)
Save the salary for the rest of this year and next, and try out some of the other pitchers.

We don't have any worth trying out. Our current 5th starter is Rodrigo Lopez. Yes, that Rodrigo Lopez. He "won" the job over Ramon Ortiz, Doug Davis and Casey Coleman. They were needed because Andrew Cashner is hurt and Randy Wells was hurt (and has sucked since coming back). Our top pitching prospect is probably Trey McNutt who has 66 IP in AA with a 4.77 ERA (and I'm guessing has been hurt given he's got those 66 IP in 18 "starts"). We've got a couple of reasonably promising kids promoted to Iowa, one of whom has a K rate of 5.5 and the other has a walk rate of 5.5 so I'm going with "not ready yet." Outside of Coleman and Ortiz, our lowest AAA starter ERA is 5.82.

If you want a good laugh, check out some of the walk rates of the Iowa Cubs.
   54. JJ1986 Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:42 PM (#3899365)
Someone named Chris Rusin is putting up decent numbers.
   55. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:48 PM (#3899370)
Cubs to put Z on DQ list for 30 days. (w/o pay)


This is what they did with Bradley at the end of his magical run with the Cubs, isn't it?

I've been a perennial defender of Zambrano and his antics through the years. As I've said elsewhere, though, these outbursts become less tolerable with the decreasing quality of Zambrano's stat line. He can be a joy to watch, both on the mound and at the plate, and others are absolutely correct when they say at least no one can dispute that Zambrano gives a damn. But this type of behavior becomes insult to injury when he's making the type of money he is and posting the results that he is.

All of this considered, part of me will still be sad to see Zambrano go, even if it frees up a ton of money for Hendry to do something idiotic with like sign Carlos Pena to a big multi-year deal. Carlos, for all of his erratic behavior, has been one of the few stable elements of a franchise that has been something of a revolving door for most of its players and coaches over the last 10+ years.
   56. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#3899375)

There's no sense getting emotional about this.


There's no anger in baseball!
   57. McCoy Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#3899392)
Save the salary for the rest of this year and next, and try out some of the other pitchers.

They should give Archer a shot and see if he is any good.
   58. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:57 PM (#3899393)
Jim Hendry will be the Cubs GM in 2012. Lets see what he can do with about $50 million in payroll to play around with.
   59. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 14, 2011 at 01:03 AM (#3899418)
Soriano stated Zambrano has a "weak mind"

Wow
   60. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 14, 2011 at 01:06 AM (#3899420)
What's it called when you can't get along with anyone at all but there's always one thing that each person did wrong that makes it their fault?

If it's not management's job to try to maintain employee morale and support strong performance, why have management at all?
   61. Kurt Posted: August 14, 2011 at 02:32 AM (#3899452)
What's it called when you can't get along with anyone at all but there's always one thing that each person did wrong that makes it their fault?

Zambranoing.
   62. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: August 14, 2011 at 02:33 AM (#3899453)
This is what they did with Bradley at the end of his magical run with the Cubs, isn't it?
Kind of, yeah (suspended, not R-Listed, iirc). Heck, they've already done it with Zambrano last year.
   63. Howie Menckel Posted: August 14, 2011 at 02:53 AM (#3899469)
"And why do some players (or Ozzie Guillen) get to say "we suck" and get praised for it while other get tossed under the bus? What the hell, with many fans/media it seems perfectly OK for Logan Morrison to say Hanley Ramirez sucks."

Morrison is 4 for his last 8 - and got sent down to AAA tonight. Maybe it wasn't as ok as it seemed, to the Marlins anyway...
   64. Ron J Posted: August 14, 2011 at 03:17 AM (#3899485)
#63 Seems to have been a reaction to bad defensive play. Since I think this is more a lack of ability (IIRC Dan didn't even have a rating for Morrison in left in the first cut of Zips), I'm not sure what it'll accomplish.

#80 What's the evidence that these type of actions are good for performance? There have been plenty of successful teams with clubhouse issues after all. That's the central point of "Will the McMeeting Come to Order"

Lefty Grove jumped the As after a frustrating loss. Since his record at the time was 25-3, the As just gave him a day to cool off.

Dunno, maybe it's reasonable to decide Zambrano isn't worth the headaches (or the money) now

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