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Tuesday, February 05, 2013

yahoo: Ryan Braun’s name listed in Biogenesis clinic records

Braun is on a list that includes Alex Rodriguez, Melky Cabrera and Cesar Carrillo, who the New Times reported received PEDs from Bosch. Also on the list are New York Yankees catcher Francisco Cervelli and Baltimore Orioles third baseman Danny Valencia, who weren’t listed near PEDs either. The record matches a document the New Times posted with Braun’s name redacted and Cervelli and Valencia’s cut off.

STEAGLES is all out of bubblegum Posted: February 05, 2013 at 08:51 PM | 63 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braun, peds

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   1. McCoy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4363495)
I wish the Cubs had players good enough that people actually cared whether they are using drugs or not.
   2. Gamingboy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 08:59 PM (#4363496)
"It was announced today that Ryan Braun will not be playing for Team USA in the World Baseball Classic, and it is totally his own choice, and totally not the result of Bud Selig calling up Joe Torre and telling him that he could hit .900 and it still wouldn't be worth the distraction and PR nightmares. Jay Bruce will take over Braun's spot in the roster."
   3. Repoz Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:01 PM (#4363497)
And Francisco Cervelli? I knew his 84 OPS+ was bogus!
   4. GregD Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4363499)
Cue Captain Renault...
   5. Gamingboy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:11 PM (#4363502)
Cue Captain Renault...

Round up the usual suspects...
   6. Danny Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:16 PM (#4363503)
Unlike the players named by the Miami New Times in its report that blew open the Biogenesis case, Braun's name is not listed next to any specific PEDs.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:19 PM (#4363505)
Cue Captain Renault...

I'm shocked, shocked that Ryan Braun would be involved in steroids.
   8. Ray (RDP) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:21 PM (#4363506)
I wish the Cubs had players good enough that people actually cared whether they are using drugs or not.


Darwin Barney posted a 4.5 bWAR last year while hitting to a .650 OPS. His bWAR was higher than Josh Hamilton's (3.5), who hit to a .930 OPS. I'm sure the nation would be up in arms if Barney were found to be using PEDs.
   9. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:25 PM (#4363507)
I like that Francisco Cervelli and Danny Valencia's names are in that same document, but under the DID NOT BUY DRUGS section.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4363508)
I like that Francisco Cervelli and Danny Valencia's names are in that same document, but under the DID NOT BUY DRUGS section.

I believe it was under "Request for PEDs denied. No drugs in the world can help those guys hit."
   11. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:27 PM (#4363509)
Ben Nightengale: "Unlike A-rod and others, look for an explanation"

Yup, that will make things right for Bill Madden.
   12. Gamingboy Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:30 PM (#4363512)

I like that Francisco Cervelli and Danny Valencia's names are in that same document, but under the DID NOT BUY DRUGS section.

I believe it was under "Request for PEDs denied. No drugs in the world can help those guys hit."


Or maybe it was a study, and he gave them the placebo.
   13. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:30 PM (#4363513)
sigh
   14. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:34 PM (#4363518)
Well the good news is that: Isn't it likely that Cabrera, Colon and Brauns failed tests are all linked to this one spot? That's a lot better than each person having his own source AND out of the list of people there are a good pct of people who failed a test.
   15. zonk Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:36 PM (#4363520)
Darwin Barney posted a 4.5 bWAR last year while hitting to a .650 OPS. His bWAR was higher than Josh Hamilton's (3.5), who hit to a .930 OPS. I'm sure the nation would be up in arms if Barney were found to be using PEDs.


Clearly, defensive metrics are on PEDs...

Which I've long-suspected and complained about many times.... but if this means a blessed 50 game suspension of dWAR (or - be still my heart, season long suspension!)-- then consider me a born-again anti-PEDer...
   16. Tripon Posted: February 05, 2013 at 09:55 PM (#4363526)
If I had to guess, players named with no sales listed next to them were probably considered potential clients.
   17. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:00 PM (#4363529)
The Hand-Fed Tigers will not be vacating any of their fantasy league wins with Mr. Braun on their 2011 roster. Just in case anyone was wondering.
   18. Gonfalon B. Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4363535)
Cue Captain Renault...

Ryan, I'm going to miss you. Apparently you're the only one with less scruples than A-Rod.
   19. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:17 PM (#4363536)
Braun's statement:

"During the course of preparing for my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant. More specifically, he answered questions about T/E ratio and possibilities of tampering with samples.

"There was a dispute over compensation for Bosch's work, which is why my lawyer and I are listed under 'moneys owed' and not on any other list.

"I have nothing to hide and have never had any other relationship with Bosch.

"I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter."
   20. Bruce Markusen Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4363537)
Somewhere in America, Dino Laurenzi is laughing.
   21. puck Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:21 PM (#4363538)
Unlike the players named by the Miami New Times in its report that blew open the Biogenesis case, Braun's name is not listed next to any specific PEDs.

Oh my god, he took all of them!
   22. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:26 PM (#4363541)
I'm shocked, shocked that Ryan Braun would be involved in steroids.

Your 2011 NL MVP, sir.

Thank you!
   23. Danny Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:32 PM (#4363544)
The record matches a document the New Times posted with Braun’s name redacted and Cervelli and Valencia’s cut off.

"The New Times was trying to be somewhat responsible, and we were having none of it."
   24. Brian White Posted: February 05, 2013 at 10:48 PM (#4363553)
And Francisco Cervelli? I knew his 84 OPS+ was bogus!


5*
   25. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:11 PM (#4363564)
Awesome. This stuff will never stop.
   26. Buddha Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4363573)
Regardless of what you think about PEDs, does anyone really believe Braun when he says he didn't use them?
   27. beer on a stick Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:31 PM (#4363576)
The AROD conspiracy widens...
   28. Gonfalon B. Posted: February 05, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4363579)
Regardless of what you think about PEDs, does anyone really believe Braun when he says he didn't use them?

Cue Captain Renault...


Ryan came to Biogenesis for the waters. He was misinformed.
   29. jdennis Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:30 AM (#4363634)
what if any is the process for vacating championships, cutting scholarships, et al for PED use by college teams?
   30. Joe OBrien Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:43 AM (#4363638)
Look at last year's NL MVP voting. It's clear almost every sportswriter in America believes Braun. He is a lucky member of the Pettitte club. They're the two guys so far whose reputations have actually been improved by being found to have used PEDs. I have no idea why those two and no one else, but it seems to be the case.
   31. Long Time Listener, First Time Caller Posted: February 06, 2013 at 04:05 AM (#4363643)
#30: It might have something to do with the fact that an abriter employed by the MLB came to the conclusion that Ryan Braun was not "found to have used PED's"
   32. Bhaakon Posted: February 06, 2013 at 04:27 AM (#4363644)
BALCO was raided on September 3, 2003. Bonds won the next two NL MVP elections. OTOH, Piazza had some zits on his back one day, and now we've got no living HOF inductees.

The only thing I think is clear is that the writers are much less strict on the seasonal awards than the Hall, perhaps because the MVP voters are all active writers who still have to go and interview the people they're [not] voting for.
   33. Austin Posted: February 06, 2013 at 04:49 AM (#4363645)
I feel sort of inclined to believe Braun, but I can't really justify it. I suppose the way he phrases his denials helps. "I have nothing to hide" and "I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter" sound a hell of a lot more convincing to me than Gio's "Anything said to the contrary is a lie". If we were making bets, maybe I'd say there was a 70% chance he used - more likely than not, but definitely not certain.
   34. Bhaakon Posted: February 06, 2013 at 06:02 AM (#4363646)
All of Brauns statements about the previous test and this looming debacle have been carefully coached, if not outright written, by his lawyers. His phrasing is entirely calculated, whereas some of the other players seem willing to (perhaps foolishly) speak off the cuff. I wouldn't read anything into it one way or another.
   35. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 06, 2013 at 08:50 AM (#4363662)
i have had through circumstances met braun several times. he's a smarmy guy and my guess is when not in public likely a bit of a pr8ck. but i didn't sense stupidity. i would be surprised if he got nailed in this fashion

and for the reading impaired note i am not saying he is clean or will never get nabbed for these types of things. just that i don't think it would happen like this

   36. BDC Posted: February 06, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4363678)
Perhaps just because I'm still in hopes of seeing Nelson Cruz play this year, what are the practical implications of these Biogenesis revelations? Can MLB or a team suspend somebody who has passed all his PEDs tests, just because his name appears on some list? Apologies if this question has been copiously answered in another thread. It just seems that if there are no practical consequences, then each succeeding story gets less and less interesting.
   37. bunyon Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:03 AM (#4363686)
BDC, I would think if something really concrete came down, MLB might do something. I'm thinking conviction of possession of steroids or perhaps even indictment. But from what we've seen so far, I have no idea how MLB or a team could do anything. Of course, I'm sure a lot of investigating is occuring, so if there is fire under the smoke, it could turn bad in a hurry.

Also, of course, I might have no idea what I'm talking about. I see the logic of it taking a failed test but if it becomes dead certain someone used banned substances, I could see a lot of pressure on everyone to do something.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:07 AM (#4363690)
Can MLB or a team suspend somebody who has passed all his PEDs tests, just because his name appears on some list?


Players (such as Jordan Schafer - details here) have been suspended in the minors on the basis of "information received", rather than a positive test of any sort.
   39. BDC Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4363694)
Interesting points, bunyon and Vlad. One imagines the union would have a lot to say if a major-league player was suspended for infractions not spelled out in the CBA, of course.
   40. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4363695)
Can these "sources" even be trusted? It seems they have their own sinister motivations which they knew would blow up this issue under the current witch-hunt mentality surrounding PEDs in baseball. Knowing the practical lawlessness of Dade County* I wouldn't be much surprised if they were locked in a small, empty room with a 100 Watt light bulb held next to their faces and ultimately confessed to fabricating those hand-written notes with the players' names. And then I would be suspicious of those who questioned them.

* A number of Dade County cops were just brought up on charges of dereliction of duty for ignoring calls for service while they drank coffee, ate lunch, and made out with women. Par for the course down here.
   41. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4363697)
It doesn't make a lot of sense that his lawyers would agree to pay 20-30K to a non-doctor hack for medical information regarding testosterone ratios and the bloodstream. There are far more useful people, who actually have medical licenses, to whom they could have turned.(*)

Plus Braun beat the earlier rap on a complete technicality having nothing to do with substance. So, no, his present denials aren't really believable.

(*) Was Bosch a witness in the Braun arbitration?
   42. ThisElevatorIsDrivingMeUpTheWall Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4363706)
You must remember this/that if you swing and miss/you need no alibi/but your fundament will be on trial/if homers fly
   43. GuyM Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:52 AM (#4363730)
It doesn't make a lot of sense that his lawyers would agree to pay 20-30K to a non-doctor hack for medical information regarding testosterone ratios and the bloodstream. There are far more useful people, who actually have medical licenses, to whom they could have turned

But it might make a lot of sense to create a pretext for sending $20-30K to a guy who provided PEDs to your client.
   44. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4363733)

Players (such as Jordan Schafer - details here) have been suspended in the minors on the basis of "information received", rather than a positive test of any sort.


Jose Guillen was suspended at the MLB level without a positive test.
   45. Dale Sams Posted: February 06, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4363766)
Knowing the practical lawlessness of Dade County*


When I lived on Miami Beach, I had Indian license plates that said 'Creek' on them...about half the time when I got a parking ticket, the officer would label the plate as 'foreign'.
   46. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4363808)
Regardless of what you think about PEDs, does anyone really believe Braun when he says he didn't use them?

Well, PED usage or non-usage is not a binary position, where you are 100% innocent or 100% guilty. Players are in an environment where they start on protein shakes, add B12 pills, and work their way up the enhancement spectrum. Most players are likely in a murky grey area that is somewhere between "by golly innocent" or "barry bonds needle me in the ass with whatever you got". I imagine Braun is in the murky middle.
   47. Ron J2 Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4363831)
#31 The arbitrator found nothing of the sort. Braun won his arbitration hearing on procedural grounds.

I'm not saying it was a bad ruling, just that the arbitrator did not find that Braun did not use PEDs.
   48. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4363832)
It doesn't make a lot of sense that his lawyers would agree to pay 20-30K to a non-doctor hack for medical information regarding testosterone ratios and the bloodstream. There are far more useful people, who actually have medical licenses, to whom they could have turned.(*)

Plus Braun beat the earlier rap on a complete technicality having nothing to do with substance. So, no, his present denials aren't really believable.


To play devil's advocate, maybe they went to the guy for medical information because they knew he was shady, and might thus be amenable to financial persuasion in exchange for testimony to support their chosen position in the appeal. Even if he's not a doctor, he might look credible enough to work as an expert witness.
   49. Ron J2 Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4363842)
#37 Basically for MLB to do anything they'd have to convince an arbitrator. Plenty of precedents for this in the world of recreational drugs -- including a full season suspension of Vida Blue.

It's not a lock that the arbitrator would allow a penalty. There are plenty of procedural grounds that a player might prevail on even if MLB has a fair amount of evidence.
   50. GuyM Posted: February 06, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4363866)
To play devil's advocate, maybe they went to the guy for medical information because they knew he was shady, and might thus be amenable to financial persuasion in exchange for testimony to support their chosen position in the appeal.

Since it appears that Bosch provided PEDs to Braun's college teammates, Braun almost certainly knew he was "shady." So Braun's case now is that, upon finding himself falsely accused of PED use, he immediately established a financial connection with a PED seller by hiring him as a consultant? I suppose "I'm an idiot and my lawyers are grossly incompetent" is a vaguely plausible defense, but it seems much more likely that this was hush money to Bosch (or Braun was blackmailed).
   51. Barnaby Jones Posted: February 06, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4363892)
I'm not saying it was a bad ruling, just that the arbitrator did not find that Braun did not use PEDs.


I think you misread what he wrote. He's saying the arbiter did not find that Braun DID use PEDs, not the inverse.
   52. Bhaakon Posted: February 06, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4363901)
Well, PED usage or non-usage is not a binary position, where you are 100% innocent or 100% guilty. Players are in an environment where they start on protein shakes, add B12 pills, and work their way up the enhancement spectrum. Most players are likely in a murky grey area that is somewhere between "by golly innocent" or "barry bonds needle me in the ass with whatever you got". I imagine Braun is in the murky middle.


There's certainly a lot of gray area in general, but I don't think anyone is talking about protein shakes or B-12 here, they're talking about the synthetic testosterone that his sample came up positive for. So you either think that test was legitimate or tainted, with relatively little room for gray. I doubt that this new evidence is going to change many people's minds one way or another, because this evidence is far weaker than the positive test.
   53. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:18 PM (#4363992)
i don't want to see people suspended/banned on suspiscion. all you'd have to do is plant something in someone's luggage/locker or show that someone's teammate/friend either possessed or used and there goes someone's life.

ESPECIALLY gossip. what if some dealer got paid to say that he gave a player drugs? that is all you need. the player is dead because there IS no defense.

i certainly don't want someone banned for a first offense. FAR too easy to drug someone without his knowledge - say, put testosterone gel inside someone's jock - let it dry - it will absorb thru the skin and give a positive test and there you go - you got rid of your rival or a team got rid of an overpaid or unpopular player without having to pay a cent and without having to worry about the player being able to put up any sort of defense.

this is what happens when you got witch hunting/hysteria and when you can execute people without them having any access to anything resembling a fair trial. it's kind of like how any "celebrity" can't win a libel suit in this country because you can't prove a negative PLUS "malice"

   54. Ron J2 Posted: February 06, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4364065)
#51 My point was that he made no finding either way. There was a procedural screw-up which is where the matter ended.

Generally speaking this is parsed as "beat it on a technicality". Seemingly (so far) generally not the case for Braun.
   55. esseff Posted: February 06, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4364108)
Jose Guillen was suspended at the MLB level without a positive test.


Yes and no. He was suspended during the 2007-2008 offseason for buying HGH from a Florida clinic, but the suspension was rescinded before it was ever served as part of MLB-union negotiations on a new policy.

And my recollection from 2010, is that he wasn't formally suspended for the postseason, but that MLB strongly suggested to the Giants that they ought not put him on the postseason roster.
   56. Walt Davis Posted: February 06, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4364306)
Plus Braun beat the earlier rap on a complete technicality having nothing to do with substance.

Well, he won the appeal because the procedures were screwed up, doing who knows what to the validity of the test.

The elder Bosch is a doctor.

And, in the early stages, there was a rumor that one of the "problems" with the Braun test was that he showed up with a T/E ratio that was off the charts. I don't think we ever found out if that was true but, if it was, it would make sense for his lawyers to investigate that as a possible line of defense.

But I will agree that Pedro Bosch, much less Tony, is hardly an ideal expert witness.
   57. Dan Posted: February 06, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4364317)
Well, he won the appeal because the procedures were screwed up, doing who knows what to the validity of the test.


There is no chemical process through which a sealed urine sample can magically generate synthetic testosterone. It was a win on technicality through and through.
   58. bunyon Posted: February 06, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4364345)
I'm not saying this is what happened, but wasn't it a chain of custody problem? Making it iimpossible to prove that the sample had not been tampered with? Somebody switching out the samples isn't a chemical process but would be an explanation.

Again, not saying that anyone did tamper, just that that is the rationale.
   59. Dan Posted: February 06, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4364431)
I'm not saying this is what happened, but wasn't it a chain of custody problem? Making it iimpossible to prove that the sample had not been tampered with? Somebody switching out the samples isn't a chemical process but would be an explanation.

Again, not saying that anyone did tamper, just that that is the rationale.


The sample arrived at the lab with an intact tamper proof seal, verified upon receipt. Braun got his suspension lifted because the courier followed what his company said to do over the weekend with the sample, which was inconsistent with the fine print in the MLB testing policy.
   60. DFA Posted: February 06, 2013 at 08:06 PM (#4364555)
i don't want to see people suspended/banned on suspiscion. all you'd have to do is plant something in someone's luggage/locker or show that someone's teammate/friend either possessed or used and there goes someone's life.


Part of the difficulty with Braun's statement is that it may legitimize the list that contains the other players. I cannot imagine that Braun's statement helps Gio Gonzalez in any way.
   61. The Yankee Clapper Posted: February 06, 2013 at 08:54 PM (#4364574)
I cannot imagine that Braun's statement helps Gio Gonzalez in any way.

Aren't the substances linked to the Gio Gonzalez notebook entry non-PEDs?
   62. DFA Posted: February 06, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4364579)
#61: I think so. And I understand that his father had some kind of a relationship with the family. This is a statement that he released:

“I’ve never used performance-enhancing drugs of any kind, and I never will. I’ve never met or spoken with Tony Bosch or used any substances provided by him. Anything said to the contrary is a lie.”


If his plan was to attack the credibility of the report, than Braun's statement suggesting that he did have a relationship with the Bosch, however innocuous, seems to suggest that the original report wasn't a fabrication. This doesn't really mean that Gio was using PEDs, but I think I'm a bit more skeptical of the idea that there wasn't a relationship between Gonzalez and Bosch after Braun's statement.
   63. Moeball Posted: February 06, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4364646)
Well, PED usage or non-usage is not a binary position, where you are 100% innocent or 100% guilty. Players are in an environment where they start on protein shakes, add B12 pills, and work their way up the enhancement spectrum. Most players are likely in a murky grey area that is somewhere between "by golly innocent" or "barry bonds needle me in the ass with whatever you got". I imagine Braun is in the murky middle.


Many suspicions, no convictions (yet). Should we call him the Teflon Braun? Do we have to kiss his ring?



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