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Monday, August 10, 2009

Yankees 5, Red Sox 2

NEW YORK—Johnny Damon and Mark Teixeira hit back-to-back homers in the eighth inning Sunday night, and the New York Yankees beat the Boston Red Sox 5-2 to finish their first four-game home sweep of their bitter rival in 24 years.

The Yanks sweep puts them comfortably in the Driver’s seat for the AL East with 51 games to play. The Sox are tied for the wild card lead with the Rangers with the Rays two games back. I was surprised to learn that the Rangers were nipping at the Sox heels in the Game Chatter and they deserve a lot of credit for putting together such and excellent defense keeping up with the preseason favorites in the East. Anyway, I hope this might become an AL East/Wild Card catch all for a bit.

Cowboy Popup Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:30 AM | 254 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rangers, rays, red sox, yankees

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   1. Phil Coorey. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:50 AM (#3287178)
Gut wrenching loss - all too familar these days.

Hopefully the Sox can turn the season around starting with Detroit tomorrow - but they have a crazy tough schedule coming up in the next few weeks.
   2. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:52 AM (#3287181)
I can't believe how close the M's are. How the hell did this happen?

About the game, what was up with the Tiant interview? It lasted about 20 minutes too long and was about the worst interview I've ever seen.
   3. Dr. Vaux Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:55 AM (#3287186)
Detroit isn't a tough opponent.
   4. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:56 AM (#3287187)
I can't believe how close the M's are. How the hell did this happen?

the ancients believed that ridding oneself of Yuniesky Betancourt had healing powers
   5. Darren Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:57 AM (#3287188)
Red Sox still have the tiebreaker in their favor!


About the game, what was up with the Tiant interview? It lasted about 20 minutes too long and was about the worst interview I've ever seen.


Free and shameless advertising is fun.
   6. Cowboy Popup Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:57 AM (#3287189)
Hopefully the Sox can turn the season around starting with Detroit tomorrow - but they have a crazy tough schedule coming up in the next few weeks.

Yikes, Detroit, at Texas and at Toronto.

I can't believe how close the M's are. How the hell did this happen?

I have no freakin clue. Just looking at the roster, I would guess defense. They sold and bought at the deadline (traded for Wilson and shipped off Washburn), which I thought was unusual. They're Pythag W-L record is 49-61 (before tonight) so I don't think there will be many believers in them around here.
   7. Phil Coorey. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:00 AM (#3287193)
Detroit isn't a tough opponent.


That is what we said about Oakland
   8. Rally Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:03 AM (#3287196)
I can't believe how close the M's are. How the hell did this happen?


They are really good at defense. Some people still think a +30 offensive outfielder who is -15 with the glove is worth more than an average hitter with a +15 glove, but the Mariners are proving that a run really is a run.
   9. Hugh Jorgan Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:07 AM (#3287202)
Ah crap. Oh well, its just balancing out isn't it? No Darren like pants pissing yet required with 50 games or so to go, but I must admit that the division title is out of reach...hello wildcard...again.
I take great solace in the fact that 14 of our next 20 games are at home. I nice 13-7 or 14-6 out of the next 20 games should just settle us down nicely. Also, what I saw out of both Beckett and Lester gives me heaps of confidence for the playoffs. Not sure what fans of other teams think of their top two starters, but in the playoffs I'd be happy to put those 2 guys up against any combination at this stage. And yes, I am sure Lincecum and Cain have better peripherals, but Beckett and Lester have been there before and I think that counts for something.
   10. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:29 AM (#3287214)
What is with all the pants pissing comments?
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:33 AM (#3287217)
Not sure what fans of other teams think of their top two starters, but in the playoffs I'd be happy to put those 2 guys up against any combination at this stage.

Yeah but everybody goes 4-man rotation in the playoffs these days.

CC/AJ is a real nice top-2, but following with Joba/Pettitte makes me a confident Yankees fan.
Beckett/Lester can match the top-2, but after that... Detroit (Verlander, Jackson), and Anaheim (Lackey, Weaver) also have great top-2's, but then get sketchy. As do LAD and the Phillies.

I like the Yankees top-4 better than anybody's that they're likely to play.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:34 AM (#3287219)
What is with all the pants pissing comments?

That's what the Sox fans call their naysayers/doomsday believers.
   13. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:39 AM (#3287222)
#### it. I'm so tired of this team. I'm ready for the offseason purge.
   14. Phil Coorey. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:53 AM (#3287230)
Half of me is with Voxter (I am ####### sick of this team) the other is well lets just sit back and chew our nails as we watch the Sox fight over a wild card birth with the others.

At least Australia finally won a test match last night v the Poms...
   15. Srul Itza At Home Posted: August 10, 2009 at 05:12 AM (#3287236)
CC/AJ is a real nice top-2, but following with Joba/Pettitte makes me a confident Yankees fan


I don't know that I list Joba on a separate tier, or as an equivalent to Pettitte.

I see CC/AJ/Joba as a very solid top 3, and Pettitte as somewhat below them, but still well above average for a #4 starter.
   16. Hugh Jorgan Posted: August 10, 2009 at 05:14 AM (#3287238)
At least Australia finally won a test match last night v the Poms...

Uh mate, we didn't just win it, it was an absolute massacre and if we'd just cleaned up the tail in Cardiff this thing would be done and dusted already.
   17. Lassus Posted: August 10, 2009 at 06:28 AM (#3287252)
Cross-posted from the Jeter thread because I'm in such a shitty mood:

As a Mets fan, this is the first year ever, in decades of fandom, when the real-life Yankee fans have become so intolerable, so righteous, so biting of the Mets and my actual fandom of the same that I am actively rooting for the first time ever for them to lose (outside of the year 2000 of course).

Exhibit #1 would be everyone where I work going on and on about the class of the Yankees vs. that of the Mets, exhibited in a previous thread about Reyes vs. Melky. Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout when the Yankees go up 3-2 late, and will it get word one? No. Will the Yankee fans continue to talk about their team like they #### rainbows and walk with former gods of baseball? Yes. This sweep was unpleasant to watch.
   18. Iwakuma Chameleon (jonathan) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 06:54 AM (#3287257)
It appears the sky is falling in Boston.
   19. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 10:16 AM (#3287271)
Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout when the Yankees go up 3-2 late, and will it get word one? No.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of proper comment is "Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout" supposed to elicit? That "Melky and cohorts" are gay? That players who show emotion at a key moment in a game don't have class? I get the feeling that I'm walking into the middle of an argument I didn't hear the beginning of.
   20. Honkie Kong Posted: August 10, 2009 at 10:27 AM (#3287275)
it was an absolute massacre and if we'd just cleaned up the tail in Cardiff this thing would be done and dusted already.

And if it didn't come pouring down in Edgbaston....

Aussies are a good team ( I am no supporter of the English team, just want my cricket fix! ), but this is the kind of move you never used to see the Aussies make, where they drop a player after 2 bad tests. Usually, you would see them sticking with the player and said player scoring a century after umpteen dropped catches, and then making the world pay...

Is Brett Lee's career over now with Johnson's return to form?
Oval should be a good one.
   21. Gamingboy Posted: August 10, 2009 at 11:22 AM (#3287281)
So long as the Angels and Cardinals still have shots, I am not worried.

The fact that those are the two best teams against the Yankees in the Postseason is proof that the Yankees are the Devil's team. Only the Padres shoot down my theory.


That said, I have prepared my redoubt, and the Yankees will never take me alive.
   22. Darren Posted: August 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM (#3287283)
To paraphrase Hugh: "I've pretty much come around to Darren's POV, but instead of admitting how incredibly wrong I've been, I'll still try to paint him as some shrieking doomsayer." Nice try, buddy.
   23. Answer Guy. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 11:45 AM (#3287286)
Also, what I saw out of both Beckett and Lester gives me heaps of confidence for the playoffs.


Cue Jim Mora.
   24. Lassus Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:17 PM (#3287293)
Just out of curiosity, what sort of proper comment is "Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout" supposed to elicit? That "Melky and cohorts" are gay? That players who show emotion at a key moment in a game don't have class? I get the feeling that I'm walking into the middle of an argument I didn't hear the beginning of.

What? It was regarding Reyes getting crap EVERYWHERE for his emotion and celebratory movements and how it made everyone want to beat the Mets, and it showed no class, and it helped bring them down. And my comment about Melky was - er, well - literal regarding a clip of the same kind of behavior from Melky immediately following Tex's HR. No one cares but me in this thread, though, which is fine, really.

Gay? WTF? Please, Andy.
   25. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:29 PM (#3287295)
Hopefully the Sox can turn the season around starting with Detroit tomorrow - but they have a crazy tough schedule coming up in the next few weeks.
I dunno, a sweep of Texas could give them some breathing room for the WC.
   26. Answer Guy. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:32 PM (#3287298)
No one cares but me in this thread, though, which is fine, really.


Somehow a Mets hijack of this thread would be appropo.
   27. The Essex Snead Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:41 PM (#3287303)
[25] Oh, you mean sweep 3 games from the team that's won 5 of 6 against Boston so far this year? Well, hey, if the Yankees can turn the tables on a season series...
   28. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:48 PM (#3287305)
[25] Oh, you mean sweep 3 games from the team that's won 5 of 6 against Boston so far this year? Well, hey, if the Yankees can turn the tables on a season series...
All I'm saying is that this upcoming stretch is more of an opportunity than anything else. If they end it still tied for the WC lead, they're in damn good shape.
   29. The Essex Snead Posted: August 10, 2009 at 12:58 PM (#3287310)
True -- I was being more flippant than anything in [27], and I'm actually a bad Red Sox fan, as I'm kinda rooting for the Rays to make the playoffs. Was hoping it'd be at NYY's expense, but what can you do?
   30. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:01 PM (#3287313)
Okay, serious question:

Who's the AL MVP this season? Yeah, obviously it should be Mauer, but they're not going to give it to him unless the Twins make the playoffs, and if they do they'll give it to Morneau because he has a lot more RBI.

I posit that Alex Rodriguez has the best "traditional" (non-statistical value -- the way writers often vote) case to be MVP, and a decent statistical case to be up there. Of course he won't get any votes, but it would be interesting to see how he places if he goes on another tear and ends up with between 35 and 40 homers and over 100 RBI.
   31. RJ in TO Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:07 PM (#3287318)
I posit that Alex Rodriguez has the best "traditional" (non-statistical value -- the way writers often vote) case to be MVP, and a decent statistical case to be up there. Of course he won't get any votes, but it would be interesting to see how he places if he goes on another tear and ends up with between 35 and 40 homers and over 100 RBI.


Well, he missed most of the first month with an injury, after spending spring training dealing with the steroid thing, and his numbers (even if he goes on a tear) are almost certain to be worse that any of his three previous MVP awards. Combine that with the perception of his defense being off, and I think he'll be lucky to finish in the top-10.

EDIT: In terms of the actual MVP, if Seattle holds in there, don't be surprised if a stealth campaign arises for Ichiro and his fantabulous average.
   32. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:11 PM (#3287321)
Alex Rodriguez won't get a single first-place vote, and he might not get any votes at all. He's hitting .259, and he has those 30 missing games to overcome in his counting stats.
   33. The Original SJ Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3287323)
yanks are 31-10 since Girardi was ejected in Atlanta.
   34. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:17 PM (#3287327)
A-Rod is having a fine season and his return was a key to the Yankee resurgence, but the missed time and relatively low batting average will count against him. Teixera is having a better all-around season and the vote may come down to him and Mauer, subject to whatever happens over the rest of the season.
   35. bfan Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:19 PM (#3287332)
Teixeira; Morneau or Mauer, if the Twins get in the play-offs; Longeria if the rays do.
   36. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3287337)
I like how you've responded to my assertion that he has a non-statistical case to win with statistics.

The Yankees have been ridiculously good since A-Rod showed up. Teixeira was okay but disappointing before A-Rod showed up, he's be amazing since then. These are the kind of things that got Shannon Stewart MVP votes in 2003.
   37. RollingWave Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:33 PM (#3287352)
Yankees WAR leader amoung position players

1.Derek Jeter : 4.2
2.Mark Teixeira : 3.8
3.Robinson Cano : 2.8
4.Jorge Posada : 2.6
5.Alex Rodriguez : 2.5

Jeter for MVP!

just looking at batting runs though like most BBWAA guys, Teix have the best case.
   38. John DiFool2 Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:36 PM (#3287356)
The only real difference between the Yanks and Sox are that the old vets on the former have almost all held onto their career performance norms AND have managed to stay healthy virtually all year, while with the Sox it's the other way around.
   39. 1k5v3L Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:37 PM (#3287358)
Cue Jim Mora.
The Yankees are who we thought they were?
   40. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:37 PM (#3287359)
Ya'know, Michael Young is hitting .323/.378/.536 for Texas and is pretty much the offense now that Cruz is out. And the Rangers are clearly in the mix.
   41. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:38 PM (#3287361)
just looking at batting runs though like most BBWAA guys, Teix have the best case.
Yes, but writers are also inclined to chalk up a lot of those Tex numbers to the protection of A-Rod.
   42. RollingWave Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:40 PM (#3287364)
The only real difference between the Yanks and Sox are that the old vets on the former have almost all held onto their career performance norms AND have managed to stay healthy virtually all year, while with the Sox it's the other way around
ehhh , i dunno, the biggest dissapointment for the RS so far is 1. David Ortiz 2. Mike Lowell 3. Dice_BB and 4. Smoltz. Ortiz and Lowell were very good players but their career talent level is clearly a step below the Yankee 30+ guys. Dice K is somewhat inexplicable but the Yankees had a similar bombout in Wang while Smoltz is 42 and comming of shoulder surgery.

Aside from those guys . who really is dissapointing anyway? Jed Lowrie? Jacoby Ellsbury? but they aren't exactly vets are they.
   43. Mister High Standards Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:42 PM (#3287365)
That was one of the most demoralizing 4 days of baseball I have ever been involved in. Just ####### depressing.

This team cannot buy a clutch hit. Cannot ####### buy one.

The Yankees pitchers in 2 of the games were doing there best to serve it up by walking the ball park but it didn't matter, since game 1 was pissed away and game 2 was pissed away. By Game 4 the team was just broken.

This team misses Papi being Papi and it misses that clubhouse presense that seems to make everyone lose. The idiot factor.
   44. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:54 PM (#3287376)
Just out of curiosity, what sort of proper comment is "Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout" supposed to elicit? That "Melky and cohorts" are gay? That players who show emotion at a key moment in a game don't have class? I get the feeling that I'm walking into the middle of an argument I didn't hear the beginning of.

What? It was regarding Reyes getting crap EVERYWHERE for his emotion and celebratory movements and how it made everyone want to beat the Mets, and it showed no class, and it helped bring them down. And my comment about Melky was - er, well - literal regarding a clip of the same kind of behavior from Melky immediately following Tex's HR. No one cares but me in this thread, though, which is fine, really.

Gay? WTF? Please, Andy.


OK, I get it now. But since I don't follow the Mets, I wasn't aware that Reyes was getting this sort of response, and in fact I wasn't even aware that he was the celebratory type.

And the gay part was because I've seen occasional snark about Melky and Cano. But then if you don't follow the Yankees you might have missed that in the same way I missed the Reyes snark.

------------------------

Teixeira; Morneau or Mauer, if the Twins get in the play-offs; Longeria if the rays do.

That seems about right, since if it goes to a Yankee, Tex not only has the best traditional mix of stats, but he's also been credited with boosting the defense of the entire Yankee infield. If A-Rod has a good finish he might get some mid-ballot votes but I doubt if he'd finish in the top 10, unless he got his BA up near .3000, and convinced the writers that .3000 was much better than a mere .300.

The beauty of this year's team is that nobody's really having a career year (well, maybe Damon), but nobody's stinking up the joint, either, and for the first time since the late 90's both the rotation and the bullpen actually has a bit of depth. IMO they could be beaten in the postseason, but it's going to take a pair of lights out starting pitchers like Lester and Beckett to do it.
   45. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:55 PM (#3287378)
This team misses Papi being Papi and it misses that clubhouse presense that seems to make everyone lose.

Well, then they never should have dumped Nomar.
   46. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:56 PM (#3287379)
To those who compained about Damon's "cheap" home run, hit tracker has it at a True distance of 399 and a standard distance of 400.
   47. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3287380)
But since I don't follow the Mets, I wasn't aware that Reyes was getting this sort of response, and in fact I wasn't even aware that he was the celebratory type.

People in the MSM have been crowing about Reyes' ebulliance for a while now; I don't recall anyone here taking it all that seriously.
   48. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 01:59 PM (#3287383)
To those who compained about Damon's "cheap" home run, hit tracker has it at a True distance of 399 and a standard distance of 400

Thanks to the barrage of complaints about all the homers early in the year (disgraceful!), now every homer to right field is a cheapie.
   49. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:01 PM (#3287384)
The idiot factor.

IIRC the Red Sox fans were positively gleeful when Damon jumped ship to the Yankees.*** But I suspect that most Yankee fans are even more gleeful now.

***I think it was something like "Looks like Jesus, acts like Judas, throws like Mary"---pretty good line, I have to admit. But they were also big on some guy named Crisp. Whatever happened to him?
   50. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:04 PM (#3287388)
Bernal tried to call Teixeira's home run last night a cheapie.
   51. RollingWave Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:05 PM (#3287389)
Melky is kinda having a career year. or maybe it's a breakout year. or maybe it'll be 2007 all over again. he's so damn streaky that I wouldn't be shocked if he ends at anypoint between 80-120 OPS+
   52. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:08 PM (#3287392)
Bernal tried to call Teixeira's home run last night a cheapie.

Well, in Babe Ruth's day it might have been called a foul ball, since it almost curved around the foul pole and landed to the right of the line.
   53. RJ in TO Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3287395)
Yes, but writers are also inclined to chalk up a lot of those Tex numbers to the protection of A-Rod.


Seriously? Am I missing the sarcasm, or do you actually think that the writers are going to give A-Rod any positive credit for intangibles?
   54. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:12 PM (#3287397)
Well, in Babe Ruth's day it might have been called a foul ball, since it almost curved around the foul pole and landed to the right of the line.

In Babe Ruth's day the wall in RF was 290 feet from home plate and about as tall as your average full-grown golden retriever.
   55. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:12 PM (#3287399)
Seriously? Am I missing the sarcasm, or do you actually think that the writers are going to give A-Rod any positive credit for intangibles?
You hear about how the protection of A-Rod has turned Teixeira's season around on almost every national broadcast. It's repeated so often it's almost accepted fact.
   56. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:16 PM (#3287403)
Well, in Babe Ruth's day it might have been called a foul ball, since it almost curved around the foul pole and landed to the right of the line.

In Babe Ruth's day the wall in RF was 290 feet from home plate and about as tall as your average full-grown golden retriever.


True and true, but I was only referring to the rule that if a ball hit over the RF fence landed to the right of the extended foul line, it was ruled a foul ball. And that had nothing to do with the distance of the fence from the plate.
   57. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3287405)
I never thought this year's Sox team could pull another 2006, but goddammit their collapse since the All Star break is worse than in 2006. Sox have lost 9 1/2 games in the division in the 3+ weeks since the break; in August 2006 they lost 8 games in the standings that month.

The most frustrating thing by far is that the Sox got 3 very good starts in the NYY series from Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester, but the offensive impotence combined with Dan Bard's mean Cla Meredith/Delcarmen impersonation meant that the Sox got nothing for their efforts whatsoever.

They can't beat good teams (1-11 against .500 or better teams since July 1), they can't hit with RISP at all (something like 3 for their last 40), they play horrible defense, and they are very banged up. They couldn't be playing worse if they were trying to throw the games. And they now have to face Edwin Jackson tonight (throwing Penny out there against him), and have to pitch poor Junichi Tazawa on Tuesday because Smoltz pitched worse than Jason Johnson did in 2006. Their situation could get even worse before things improve.

Demoralizing indeed.
   58. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:20 PM (#3287410)
I like how you've responded to my assertion that he has a non-statistical case to win with statistics.


I interpreted "traditional, non-statistical" to mean "non-sabermetric."

Is anyone giving A-Rod credit for intangibles or protection or leadership? He seems like the last guy who's going to get the benefit of the doubt on that sort of thing.

EDIT: I wrote this before I saw Larry's No. 55. Still seems pretty dubious to me.
   59. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:22 PM (#3287412)
Between the two of them A-Rod and Tex have 34 homers at home and 16 on the road. Alex is hitting almost a 100 points higher on the road but no power.
   60. The Original SJ Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:22 PM (#3287413)
Exhibit #1 would be everyone where I work going on and on about the class of the Yankees vs. that of the Mets, exhibited in a previous thread about Reyes vs. Melky. Melky and cohorts ####### dancing in the dugout when the Yankees go up 3-2 late, and will it get word one? No.

At least they danced in the dugout. Victor Martinez didn't move more than 3 steps until the ball landed, trotted around the bases, the stopped and walked over home plate, did some sort of complicated hand gestures culmintating with two hands pointed to the sky.

Then, he and big papi reenacted some sort of wild kingdom mating dance at the on deck circle.

It was a very big home run for the Sox, I can understand why they were excited.

And if you don't want to hear Reyes get ####, stop listening to Vinny in the car in Long Island on WFAN, its not good for your health.

And I like the fact that Melky, Swisher and Robby celebrate when their team is doing well. For the last 5 or 6 years, the Yanks looked like a team that was having no fun. They are having fun now, it is fun to watch them again.
   61. RJ in TO Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:24 PM (#3287414)
You hear about how the protection of A-Rod has turned Teixeira's season around on almost every national broadcast. It's repeated so often it's almost accepted fact.


That's the broadcasters, who don't vote. I'll wait until I start seeing the writers talk about his intangibles, or how clutch he's been.
   62. Swedish Chef Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:34 PM (#3287428)
What? It was regarding Reyes getting crap EVERYWHERE for his emotion and celebratory movements and how it made everyone want to beat the Mets, and it showed no class, and it helped bring them down.

But why are you shitting on Melky then if your beef is with idiots in the media?

EDIT: hey, "shitting" is not nannied!
   63. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:39 PM (#3287432)
WEEI has switched to a WFAN-like format of frequent short breaks rather than one enternal 20 minute break every segment. Wise move.
   64. Deacon Blues Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:39 PM (#3287433)
The way Sox fans tell it, they SHOULD have won on Thursday and Friday. They had Joba on the ropes (ignoring the fact that they gave up 13 runs and the game was over by the time they scored more than 4) and they seemingly think that Burnett got lucky (1 hit in 7 2/3 innings, and no runner past second base...). The great thing about this series as a Yankee fan, is that the Yankees beat them so many different ways, from pounding the snot out of them (Thursday), extra inning bullpen contest, Shutdown starting pitchig, and late inning heroics....ahh, victory. Sox were not winning more than 2 games in this series, no matter what happened.
   65. Matt Garza smells it deep (Mr. Tapeworm) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:47 PM (#3287437)
As a Mets fan, this is the first year ever, in decades of fandom, when the real-life Yankee fans have become so intolerable, so righteous, so biting of the Mets and my actual fandom of the same that I am actively rooting for the first time ever for them to lose (outside of the year 2000 of course).


These Yankee fans probably remember 2007, when some Mets fans were telling them -- in May -- how the Yankees sucked and how the Mets were going to the World Series. We know how that one turned out.
   66. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:47 PM (#3287438)
The way Sox fans tell it, they SHOULD have won on Thursday and Friday. They had Joba on the ropes (ignoring the fact that they gave up 13 runs and the game was over by the time they scored more than 4) and they seemingly think that Burnett got lucky (1 hit in 7 2/3 innings, and no runner past second base...).

well, the Yankees pitching staff did issue 25 walks over the four games. That's not good. They were pretty lucky to catch the Sox at a time when no one was hitting much of anything. CC's start on Saturdway was really the only dominant one.
   67. 1k5v3L Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:49 PM (#3287440)
The way Sox fans tell it, they SHOULD have won on Thursday and Friday.
Scoreboard?
   68. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3287441)
Well, the Yankees should have won a couple of those games they lost to Boston before this weekend. So get over it.
   69. . . . . . . Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3287443)
They were pretty lucky to catch the Sox at a time when no one was hitting much of anything.

Actually, its more like the Red Sox were unlucky to catch the Yanks when everyone was pitching the #### out of the ball.
   70. RJ in TO Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3287444)
CC's start on Saturdway was really the only dominant one.


Burnett gave up one hit in 7 2/3. That's pretty dominant, even considering the walks.
   71. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:54 PM (#3287446)
Burnett gave up one hit in 7 2/3. That's pretty dominant, even considering the walks.

maybe its just my innate dislike of Burnett (I just hate watching him for some reason), but I don't really think of a 6 BB/6 K performance as dominant.
   72. Gamingboy Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3287448)
By the way, all who attempt to enter the great Anti-Yankee Redoubt wearing Red Sox gear will first have to hit with runners in scoring position in order to gain entry.

So something tells me this here redoubt will be banned to those in New England.
   73. Answer Guy. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:57 PM (#3287449)
The way Sox fans tell it, they SHOULD have won on Thursday and Friday.


Friday, maybe. I refuse to believe that any non-idiot Sox fan would say "Sox should've won Thursday." I mean, Joba wasn't good, but the Sox threw John Smoltz and then Billy Traber, who was even worse than Smoltz, out there.
   74. Answer Guy. Posted: August 10, 2009 at 02:58 PM (#3287450)
I just hate watching [Burnett] for some reason


As someone who's owned Burnett in fantasy before, and watched his games in that context, it's probably almost as bad as watching Dice-K.
   75. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:04 PM (#3287452)
maybe its just my innate dislike of Burnett (I just hate watching him for some reason), but I don't really think of a 6 BB/6 K performance as dominant.

If 7 2/3 IP, 6H, 1BB, 6K, 0 ER would be dominant, then it's dominant. A BB can't be worse than a single.

I think it's indicative of a guy who had great, great movement on his pitches. They couldn't hit him, but he wasn't always exactly sure where they were going.
   76. The Good Face Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:11 PM (#3287460)
If 7 2/3 IP, 6H, 1BB, 6K, 0 ER would be dominant, then it's dominant. A BB can't be worse than a single.

I think it's indicative of a guy who had great, great movement on his pitches. They couldn't hit him, but he wasn't always exactly sure where they were going.


This is true, but the 6BB performance would almost certainly be worse to watch. Burnett is clearly a good pitcher when healthy, but not the most aesthetically pleasing guy around. Going 3-2 to almost every batter makes for painful watching.
   77. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:13 PM (#3287463)
Ortiz and Lowell were very good players but their career talent level is clearly a step below the Yankee 30+ guys.

I think that really depends on what you define Ortiz's "career level" as.

And WJ, as I explained in the Game Chatter, everything positive the Yankees do is cheap.
   78. RJ in TO Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:14 PM (#3287464)
Going 3-2 to almost every batter makes for painful watching.


That was one of the things which drove a lot of Toronto fans nuts when he was pitching - especially since it was such a sharp contrast to Halladay, who seemed to go 0-2 on every batter.
   79. Deacon Blues Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:15 PM (#3287465)
Great point by Snapper, you switch out some walks for singles, and Burnett's start looks as good as it was, which is to say, every bit as good as Beckett's. The movement he gets on his 4 seam fastball is unbelievable. Particularly the inside pitch he threw to the lefthander (forgetting who, maybe drew?) that beckett was ######## about.
   80. SoSH U at work Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:25 PM (#3287472)
Burnett's start looks as good as it was, which is to say, every bit as good as Beckett's.


The big difference is Beckett's start was against a good lineup.
   81. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3287473)
I can't believe how close the M's are. How the hell did this happen?


They are really good at defense. Some people still think a +30 offensive outfielder who is -15 with the glove is worth more than an average hitter with a +15 glove, but the Mariners are proving that a run really is a run.


Is this the same Mariners team that is being outscored by 43 runs on the season and has a pythagorean record of 51-60? Their defense is excellent, but it seems to me that their 58-53 record is a function of dumb luck.
   82. Mister High Standards Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3287474)
Actually, its more like the Red Sox were unlucky to catch the Yanks when everyone was pitching the #### out of the ball.


Burnett and Joba were not pitching the #### out the ball. They got bore down big outs when the needed to and completely outplayed a lissless embarassing ballless performance, and are the best team in base in baseball right now. But when half your starters are walking a man an inning I wouldn't call a domminant weekend by your starters, even though it was dominant performance by a team.

Just a terriable performance. Terriable. I highly doubt this team can come off the canvas. I think the odds are high the season is over.
   83. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:31 PM (#3287479)
Burnett and Joba were not pitching the #### out the ball.

Joba struggled, but Burnett gave up one hit. He had great movement. 7 2/3 IP, 1 H, 6 BB, 6 K, 0 ER is no worse than 7 IP, 4 H, 2 BB, 7 K, 0 ER. It's just different.
   84. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:34 PM (#3287481)
I posit that Alex Rodriguez has the best "traditional" (non-statistical value -- the way writers often vote) case to be MVP, and a decent statistical case to be up there. Of course he won't get any votes, but it would be interesting to see how he places if he goes on another tear and ends up with between 35 and 40 homers and over 100 RBI.


Not with a .259 batting average. Not with missing some 25 games (and rightfully so).

EDIT: Cokes all around.
   85. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3287482)

I think that really depends on what you define Ortiz's "career level" as.


In ng/mL?
   86. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3287484)
The way Sox fans tell it, they SHOULD have won on Thursday and Friday.

On Thursday the only way the Sox could have won is if Smoltz had had a portable time machine in his back pocket.

On Friday Reddick's near home run did only land foul by a couple of feet, so you might say that luck played a part there. OTOH you could say the same thing about Drew's play on Hinske, and Melky's near game winner down the line. The truth is that the Red Sox lost for the simple reason that their bullpen got depleted first, and they were reduced to putting in a guy who'd never pitched a game in the Majors before.

And last night, if Girardi had brought in Hughes in the eighth, the Red Sox would have been blanked for a third time. So count your blessings that you got to see Coke and were able to dream your dreams for about five minutes. It's better than nothing.
   87. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3287485)
That was one of the most demoralizing 4 days of baseball I have ever been involved in. Just ####### depressing.

This team cannot buy a clutch hit. Cannot ####### buy one.


You mean, other than Victor Martinez's clutch home run last night, that turned a 1-0 deficit into a 2-1 lead late in the game?
   88. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3287488)
You mean, other than Victor Martinez's clutch home run last night, that turned a 1-0 deficit into a 2-1 lead late in the game?

Bard retroactively unclutched it.
   89. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:41 PM (#3287490)
You mean, other than Victor Martinez's clutch home run last night, that turned a 1-0 deficit into a 2-1 lead late in the game?
And didn't they buy him?
   90. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3287491)
Great point by Snapper, you switch out some walks for singles, and Burnett's start looks as good as it was, which is to say, every bit as good as Beckett's.


I don't think this works, in a discussion of dominance. Hits can be pure dumb luck; but walks are not. If the pitcher walks 6 guys, I don't consider that dominant.
   91. Deacon Blues Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:49 PM (#3287498)
when it comes to Burnett, it most certainly was NOT dumb luck that they only had 1 hit. the movement he got on his pitches was obscene.

Your point about walks and hits with respect to luck is fine and good for projecting future performance, but what happened happened, and Burnett was dominant on Friday. Sox hitters looked like they were swinging at a wiffle ball. classic Burnett.
   92. rconn23 Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:54 PM (#3287501)
"They’d been shut out for 7 2/3 innings by Burnett, who’d been throwing so hard with a curveball so sharp, Dustin Pedroia said, “Sometimes, you just have to tip your cap to pitching like that. Sometimes you just go up there knowing you’re going to get blown away. That’s how good Burnett was.”

From Klapisch's column...That's Pedroia saying that. Not exactly a guy who gives credit to pitchers too often.
   93. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3287505)
He's also not a magic person.
   94. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:04 PM (#3287509)
I don't understand the bullpen usage in Sunday's game. If I'm the Red Sox and I just grabbed a late lead with a viable way to get out of town, I bring in Papelbon. Or at least Okajima. Was Bard really the best option right there?

Also, I thought that bringing in Coke over Hughes made no sense in that spot.
   95. jyjjy Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:07 PM (#3287516)
That's just how A.J. pitches even when he is doing well. He walked NINE people in his no hitter back in 2001 for Florida.
   96. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:09 PM (#3287517)
Your point about walks and hits with respect to luck is fine and good for projecting future performance, but what happened happened, and Burnett was dominant on Friday. Sox hitters looked like they were swinging at a wiffle ball. classic Burnett.


But if he had no idea where the ball was going, that cuts against the "dominance" aspect.

You can trade walks for singles if you're talking about the value of the performance, but when you're talking about dominance, the pitcher really can't walk 6 freaking batters in 7.2 innings, and throw just 65 of 118 pitches for strikes. What on earth.

The quote from Pedroia can be, to quote John Sterling, thrown in the east river. It's a routine compliment from one player to another, and also serves to deflect blame from the offense for a lousy performance, when the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. It's not like the Red Sox were hitting the cover off the ball all weekend other than when they ran into Burnett.

He struck out 6 batters, not 12. Please with this.
   97. aleskel Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:11 PM (#3287519)
Also, I thought that bringing in Coke over Hughes made no sense in that spot.

Girardi has marked Hughes as unavailable before the game (thanks to his own stupidity, bringing him in for only one hitter on back-to-back nights).
   98. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:16 PM (#3287523)
This is a huge, huge start for Mitre today. I honestly think that if he doesn't go five innings, he never starts for the Yankees again. The Yankees absolutely cannot afford a letdown game in which they lose 14-3 or something.
   99. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:17 PM (#3287526)
Oh, the Yankees are absolutely going to lose tonight. Absolutely.
   100. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 10, 2009 at 04:17 PM (#3287527)
This is a huge, huge start for Mitre today. I honestly think that if he doesn't go five innings, he never starts for the Yankees again. The Yankees absolutely cannot afford a letdown game in which they lose 14-3 or something.


Or not.
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