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Shouldn't that comment have been on MSG?
Ah racism.
I expected Ichiro's next at bat to be a can of miniature corn.
Sensei Ichiro: Man who hit ball with chopstick, hit for power if he want to.
Cone is the best analyst on YES? I thought he was pretty bad when I tuned in to watch the Red Sox implosion last night. And I definitely cringed at the chopstick remark
Unless they have another analyst citing WAR and fielding metrics that I don't know about. Plus he has fascinating things to say about pitching.
Ichiro is, obviously, Japanese. The Japanese use chopsticks. It seems to me that is just a colorful way to say "bat".
I'm willing to leave it with Ichiro. Ask him if he's offended.
Whether or not one agrees with the concept, the idea is that it lets more people feel okay when they see someone asian to primarily think CHOPSTICK or when they want to make a joke about someone asian to use CHOPSTICK or that the sole identity of anyone asian is something like CHOPSTICK or other asian stereotypes.
Again, you may not agree, and that's fine. I knew plenty of asians in school who, if born on Long Island, had to answer "what do they eat where you're from?" questions. It's pretty annoying for them, and other less friendly circumstances, far more than annoying. This kind of thing just reinforces the clueless, and makes certain lives more difficult.
And yes, plenty of Asians don't give twoshits, at all. This doesn't make the concerns of those who do invalid or unimportant.
It's impossible to know what will offend but, sheesh, referring to a wooden stick in the hands of a Japanese player, especially a light hitting one, as a chopstick seems innocuous. I usually come down on the side of "be sensitive" but this really does seem, to me, to be a sign that any reference of any kind to another culture that doesn't bend over backward to kiss that culture's ass is offensive.
But I'm a guy who watched the Superbowl halftime show and didn't realize a nip had slipped out, so whaddoiknow.
Have we gotten to a point where we are supposed to filter everything to be as white bread (oops, I guess that's offensive to someone)...as neutral as possible?
How...uninteresting.
Has the copious public dissemination of the "n-word" in recent years let more people feel okay when they see someone black to think, "n-word"? Do you advocate the word being censored when it can be heard by white crackers who might not get the nuances of meaning or may otherwise use it to stereotype?
This idea that words can't be put into public discourse because others will misuse them isn't borne out by the way society actually operates.
And, yes, plenty of people are actually offended by the relentless use of the n-word on the public airwaves -- and rightfully so. (I happen not to be one of them, but I see the point.)
I guess I don't see much to get aggrieved about here. Ichiro's Japanese-Japanese, not Japanese-American and he has an unusual swing that makes it seem like he's swinging something less substantial that a Louisville Slugger. To borrow a buzzword from 4 years ago, why can't this just be a "teaching moment" for Cone instead of an opportunity to get the torches and pitchforks? I also agree that Cone's a good analyst and seems to take the job more seriously than his non-jock cohorts on the Yankee broadcasting team.
There's nothing to teach him, and it's antisocial and anti-pluralist to suggest that there is or to believe that any "offense" somenone might feel warrants action taken by or against Cone.(*) He's doing nothing that isn't frequently done in the culture.
(*) People can certainly feel "offense," if they choose, but they have no basis to insist on any remedial action for such offense. Any such insistence violates the spirit of pluralism -- badly.
2. Don't see what is offensive about it.
What if he'd said "Kinsler has a pretty weak arm. It looks like he's throwing a matzo ball"? Or "boy, it looks like Bryce Harper has been possessed by the Angel Moroni"? Or "Gonzalez cradled the ball in his glove like he was eating a taco"?
That said, it's not a big deal. Just a stupid thing to say.
I mean for the people who are aggrieved and want to get him fired.
edit: Ah screw it. Couldn't get my link to work.
Is "Donora Express" taboo now as well?
I don't know...I was struggling to come up with examples. I need more coffee.
Like I said, it's not a big deal, just a silly thing for Cone to say.
The perfect set up for a fat ballplayer joke from which I will refrain.
Every network eventually has a nip slip.
That pitch looked like a watermelon to him.
Yes, they're in serious need of teaching.
"Baltimore Chop" stick?
You can get even more noodles per try with sticks.
They don't even go through the pretense of saying dolphins are bycatch, they herd them into bays and slaughter them with spears and harpoons. But I suppose a predilection for eating cetaceans has nothing to do with them being Japanese.
I'm pretty sure that most black people I know would not appreciate something like, "He's got so much eyeblack on he looks like a coon."
EDIT: If Cone had said something along the lines of [36] or some sort of math/science/computer programming/insert stereotype here reference, I would get the offense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtImIqR5neU
I'd probably cringe if I heard this, but only because it sounds like a bad joke. The idea that this is bad—both in general and especially relative to the other jokes and allusions and analogies that are and have been made re: foreign-born baseball players in the majors—kind of mystifies me, to be honest. I'd rather we reserve our supply of moral indignation for, say, those "Horry Kow" Fukudome souvenirs.
David Cone, on Dave Nilsson's arm:
Yawn.
Last night on the news there was a piece about some Chiefs players going to some chicken restaurant to raise money for charity. The news anchor laughs and says, "and I bet those guys can really put away some chicken!" as the picture is of all four black players. She kinda looked horrified for a split second before they went to commercial.
To be honest, I'm Asian and I don't see a big problem with this. I'd have more of a problem I guess if Ichiro was Japanese-American, but he's Japanese, and almost certainly does use chopsticks. We shouldn't be PC to the point where we lose the ability to use colorful, fairly racially-benign language.
Since when did the word "chopsticks" become offensive? To call "chopsticks" some kind of racist or ethnic stereotype is really a stretch. I'd be curious to hear what Ichiro himself thinks of this. Would he consider this offensive?
And that is too bad. Because four big football players can almost certainly put away some chicken. To me, it should all be the context. What that announcer said, following that story, with the tone* I would imagine she had, should in no way be offensive. Otherwise, white people shouldn't ever talk about black people, Americans should never talk about Asians, etc. If, in that moment, where we share something - a laugh over a messy meal, a nuance of human interaction, whatever, we're always looking over our shoulder to see if we offended, we'll never truly interact as equals.
He's Japanese! But don't ever associate him with being Japanese!
I mean, at least the Steve Lyons thing, as blown out of proportion as it was, was a situation where Lyons was associating hispanics with being thieves in an attempt to be funny. Nothing like that exists here, and people really need to get lives.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/bob-griese-suspended-for-_n_335070.html
On Sam McDowell:
He sure can propel the pierogi!
This is the biggest problem with the whole kerfluffle -- the belief that Ichiro and people of other races/nationalities similarly situated to Ichiro are in need of special protection and dispensation. That's denigrating to them and indicates a lack of dedication to their actual equality.
The four black KC Chiefs can handle other people thinking they can eat a lot of chicken. Ichiro can handle having his bat referred to as a chopstick. They aren't in need of whitey's guilt and noblesse oblige.
No he wasn't. Lyons wasn't saying Lou stole his wallet. He was talking about how smart Lou was and here he was so stupid that he didn't even know where his wallet was.
The fact of the matter is that most of us, including me, note the fact that Ichiro is Japanese and think it's quite cool. Ichiro's a cool guy and the way he goes about his baseball business is cool. His ethnicity is inevitably intertwined in all of that and all of us are conscious of it.
Hmm. I'll have to re-review the incident.
Oscar: My parents were Mexican.
Michael: Wow. That is... That is a great story. That's the American Dream right there, right?
Oscar Martinez: Thank... Yeah...
Michael Scott: Um, let me ask you, is there a term besides Mexican that you prefer? Something less offensive?
Oscar Martinez: Mexican isn't offensive.
Michael Scott: Well, it has certain connotations.
Oscar Martinez: Like what?
I think it's fairly easy to see where Cone went with trying to be funny/cool/whatever by saying "chopstick".
So my mom and I get a flat last year in an SUV. While I've changed plenty of tires in simple four-door cars like a Toyota Camry, I'm having a hell of a time reading the manual and figuring out how in the hell to change this tire. Or even how to release the spare from its locked and chained position underneath the car. A hispanic kid in his 20s comes over, jumps underneath the car, and begins to quickly and effortlessly go through the various steps without bothering with the manual. My mom is impressed and asks, "Wow! Are you a mechanic?" Without breaking stride he replies, "No, ma'am, just Mexican."
European soccer announcers do it constantly, though! (In club play, not international where it would be more expected).
"Not sure what the German had in mind there with that ball..."
"Brilliant cross there by the young Tunisian!"
etc.
The real question is: if it were conclusively proved that Ichiro had 4000 something professional hits using a chopstick for a bat, would Ray vote for him for the HOF?
"Not sure what the German had in mind there with that ball..."
"Brilliant cross there by the young Mexican!"
etc.
Same thing with American tennis announcers who probably do it even more often.
Yeah, the whole "most people aren't offended, but SOME people are, and their reaction is valid" is silly.
I think you mean, you're calling a shovel a shovel. It's less offensive.
Javier "Chicharito" Hernandez at Man Utd, for one.
if i had let it slip, i'd be embarassed; i'd even apologize if i felt like i needed to after talking to some asian acquaintances or somebody smarter than me about this sort of thing.
it doesn't make cone a bad person.
the usual absurd reductionist pseudo-logic and phony outrage-at-the-outrage in these threads is getting boring.
my bad, i should have just skipped this thread, really.
I don't think ignorance should get a pass. That said, I don't think this even rises to ignorance.
#79 - Absolutely. They're remarkably precise if you're skilled enough with them, but they sure are hard to learn with.
See, there's your problem right there. You're supposed to use two chopsticks.
Out here, some families use chopsticks for dinner regardless of the nature of the meal. My Nisei father-in-law and my wife use chopsticks for everything at home, including eggs, pie, cake and other items that would seem to call out for a fork.
edit > Although I also like the Ethiopian sourdough bread shovel.
you've never eaten at lee hou on clement st.
Appropo of nothing...
Maine Coon (a very large semi-longhair) is a recognized breed at cat shows. Were I to be carrying such a feline toward a show and an African American asked the breed, could I tell him/her the truth?
Also, I completely agree with those who point out that one advantage of chopsticks -- for the non-native users, at least -- is that they force you to eat slower, which is just a good thing in every possible way (from the health benefits of filling up before you can stuff your gullet full, to the simple fact that you'll enjoy your food and your dinner conversation more if you have time to talk and not relentless cram yourself full).
However, none of that applies to native (or exceptionally proficient) users of chopsticks: it's AMAZING, absolutely break-the-laws-of-space-time amazing, how quickly some of my Korean and Japanese friends are able to use chopsticks to eat. It's actually visually impressive, really: they wield those suckers like a samurai wields katanas.
Hugely awkward pause for a few seconds.
Then I actually interjected "no really, that's actually the technical name of the breed!" just to make sure the poor old grandma wasn't going to take it the wrong way.
As it turned out, it wasn't a problem. But ennnhhh....definite "oh man this is not good" moment there.
"Well, he'll make big wampum in 2014 David."
Hunger is a great motivator!
Reminds me a little of the opening bit in Louis CK's Chewed Up. Which probably makes me a little bit racist. But everyone's a little bit racist, sometimes.
Of course. You haven't called the person anything. You haven't made any allusions to their race in describing what they do. It's not the same situation at all. BTW, David Cone's indiscretion or whatever wasn't anywhere near calling a black person a "coon." It might have been stereotyping, but it was a really really mild version. OTH, my response is not the one anyone cares about. If I wanted to know whether what Cone said was a problem, I'd ask someone with a Japanese heritage. I'm mostly German and Scots-Irish. I would object strongly to someone making a Nazi joke at the expense of my German last name. But Cone didn't get anywhere near anything as offensive as "Nazi." - Brock Hanke (Brock is an old Anglo-Saxon word for badger. Hanke is German for haunch. So my name actually means "Badger Butt.")
This phrase usually refers to something else.
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