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Saturday, December 09, 2017

Yankees in talks on Giancarlo Stanton trade

Dave Dombrowski will not have a good morning.

And Joel Sherman never sleeps.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 09, 2017 at 07:27 AM | 198 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giancarlo stanton, marlins, yankees

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   1. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 09, 2017 at 07:42 AM (#5589158)
After over years 20 years of love-making, Jeter’s gift basket to the bleacher creatures is truly generous.
   2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:18 AM (#5589165)
done deal according to Heyman
   3. McCoy Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:23 AM (#5589167)
So here comes Torres
   4. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:25 AM (#5589168)
So here comes Torres


Might see Tyler Wade get the job out of spring training if Torres isn't yet 100%
   5. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:32 AM (#5589169)
Or you might see Wade and Torres if they dump Headley as part of the effort to reset the luxury tax.

They have too many OFers now, and the one you'd like to move probably isn't all that moveable.
   6. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:38 AM (#5589170)
Also, this means Harper's going to have to play CF in 2019. ;-)
   7. Lassus Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:47 AM (#5589172)
Watching them lose to the Astros in the 2018 WS is going to be even better now.
   8. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:50 AM (#5589173)
Great googa#######mooga
   9. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:05 AM (#5589178)
Watching them lose to the Astros in the 2018 WS is going to be even better now.


Are the Yankees moving to the NL?!
   10. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:13 AM (#5589180)

This is a revolting development. For Marlins fans, for baseball in general.

The Yankees stay on top, in large part, because other organizations feed them free players. Really, Starlin Castro?

Is Jeter doing what Loria did in Montreal? Strip-mine the franchise, watch fan support evaporate, and then point and say, "See? Miami's a bad baseball market!"

   11. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:13 AM (#5589181)
8--Yeah, this place is mostly about politics and the NBA, but we gotta uphold some standards...
   12. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5589183)
Serious mode: the name every unrealistic Yankee fan will name as the core of every unrealistic fantasy package is, in fact, "Starlin Castro."
So if Cashman actually pulls it off...
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5589184)

This is a revolting development. For Marlins fans, for baseball in general.


As a Yankee fan, I agree.

Also, this means Harper's going to have to play CF in 2019. ;-)

I'd rather have Machado anyway ;-)
   14. Stormy JE Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5589186)
Is Jeter doing what Loria did in Montreal? Strip-mine the franchise, watch fan support evaporate, and then point and say, "See? Miami's a bad baseball market!"
Was it really too much to ask for Jeter to spend his entire playing career in Florida and then become CEO of the Yankees?
   15. Stormy JE Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:23 AM (#5589187)
I'd rather have Machado anyway ;-)
Because if the Yankees still have a pressing need, it's for a right-handed power bat?
   16. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:24 AM (#5589188)
Glad to see George Costanza’s proposed trades are finally going through.
   17. Captain Supporter Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:28 AM (#5589189)
Spare me the euphoria from Yankee fans, and the groans from the Yankee haters (particularly the nonsense about how awful this is baseball). The Yankees will wind up regretting this contract. If you did not want 10 years of Robinson Cano, why do you want to spend more money for an injury prone player coming off his best year who plays a position where you already have someone who is probably better? Its not like the Yankees lacked power, particularly from the right side. There were better uses for the money.
   18. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:33 AM (#5589192)
The 1992 NBA Dream Team was an amazing collection of talent.

It also produced some really boring basketball. The US had all the talent, it was supposed to win easily, and it did win easily.

If that's what baseball's going to be -- it's not going to be very interesting for non-Yankee fans.
   19. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5589193)
You might want to hold off with that until (1) the deal is actually announced; and (2) the Yankees' rotation makes it through May without 3/5 of it going on the DL.
   20. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5589194)
I don't understand people who area reacting as if this is the equivalent of an NBA team loading up. Baseball is ####### random. About the only thing this might guarantee is that the Yankees shouldn't fall below .500.
   21. Captain Supporter Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5589195)
If that's what baseball's going to be -- it's not going to be very interesting for non-Yankee fans.


If you are going to whine about payroll, complain about the the team with the highest payroll. Hint: it is not the Yankees
   22. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:38 AM (#5589196)
Is Jeter doing what Loria did in Montreal? Strip-mine the franchise, watch fan support evaporate, and then point and say, "See? Miami's a bad baseball market


You mean there’s a downside to an economics system that showers selected franchises with endless torrents of free money, thus insulating ownership from the financial risks associated with an alienated and disengaged fanbase?
   23. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:43 AM (#5589197)
You mean there’s a downside to an economics system that showers selected franchises with endless torrents of free money, thus insulating ownership from the financial risks associated with an alienated and disengaged fanbase?


Absolutely. The less correlation there is between "making money" and "winning", the less healthy the sport.

I'm not blaming the Yankees. They're seizing an opportunity that the Marlins handed them.
   24. Barnaby Jones Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5589200)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
   25. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5589201)
Absolutely. The less correlation there is between "making money" and "winning", the less healthy the sport.


Well that’s a curiously unsupported assertion.
   26. Lassus Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:09 AM (#5589208)
You mean there’s a downside to an economics system that showers selected franchises with endless torrents of free money, thus insulating ownership from the financial risks associated with an alienated and disengaged fanbase?

This is about the lowest-energy bit of your shtick I've ever seen.
   27. Curtschillingsdingleberrybatboy Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5589209)
Cashman isn’t one of the anointed whiz kids but he sure knows how to seize an opportunity. Instead of adhering to a strict blueprint, he stays flexible and takes any opportunity to add elite talent. 2 years ago around this time, he wasn’t looking for a closer, didn’t need a closer, but Chapman became available and he jumped on it, which paid off bigly. This is similar. They don’t need a right fielder, but if you have the chance to get the best(maybe second best) player at a position and it doesn’t blow up your plan, you take it.
   28. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:21 AM (#5589210)
*shrug*

It’s true, and I think you know it’s true. Welfare for Billionaires is a bad idea that distorts markets and creates moral hazards for conduct that nobody wants to even acknowledge.
   29. Blastin Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5589211)
I love this but it's okay if you don't.

Lol marlins
   30. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5589214)
   31. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5589220)
There are all kinds of rational takes on this deal, but right now I prefer to run with the gut reaction that the Last True Yankee is pulling a modern Arnold Johnson, stripmining a smaller franchise to get back pieces the Yankees have already forgotten about before the deal is officially completed. I'm only surprised Jeter didn't throw in Yellich or Ozuna to help the Yankees feel better about taking on all that money.
   32. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5589221)

You mean there’s a downside to an economics system that showers selected franchises with endless torrents of free money, thus insulating ownership from the financial risks associated with an alienated and disengaged fanbase?


Well yeah but the people of New York decided to fund the new stadium. Can’t blame the Yanks for taking the welfare offered them.
   33. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:43 AM (#5589222)
More from Sherman:

Heard Castro is only veteran going to #Marlins for Stanton. Rest of deal is prospecds, but not #Yankees best.


Also heard main prospects are not close to majors, lower down in system, people Denbo will know and like. #Marlins #Yankees
   34. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5589225)
From the other thread:

40. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 08:44 AM (#5589171)
If I'm the Yankees or Dodgers, I offer a nothing burger package of prospects (a B- and 3 Cs), and insist the Marlins eat $100M, where the $100M is owed even if Stanton opts out. And I don't budge from that.

You think the fish are that desperate?

Don't know the answer to that, and I don't really want the Yankees to give up prime prospects or go over the luxury tax threshold when they've already got so many young and inexpensive potential stars under contract.

But if somehow the Yanks wound up getting Stanton via one of snapper's nothing burger packages, the best part might be the howlings of conspiracy theorists who'd claim that the Yankees planted Jeter in Miami in order to make the Marlins into the 21st century version of the Kansas City A's.

And don't think that sort of reaction couldn't happen. It might even happen around here.

Hey, you've still got tens of millions of birthers and truthers out there. And conspiracy theories aren't always political in nature.

And right on cue:
31. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5589220)
There are all kinds of rational takes on this deal, but right now I prefer to run with the gut reaction that the Last True Yankee is pulling a modern Arnold Johnson, stripmining a smaller franchise to get back pieces the Yankees have already forgotten about before the deal is officially completed. I'm only surprised Jeter didn't throw in Yellich or Ozuna to help the Yankees feel better about taking on all that money.


I love it.
   35. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5589226)
Wonder if the Marlins are going to throw any money in on the deal to offset the enormous franchise-crushing contract they so willingly signed Stanton to.
   36. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5589227)
Stanton's luxury tax hit is $25M. With Castro off the roster, the Yankees will still be $17M under the threshold according to Cot's. I don't expect to see any cash changing hands in the deal.

EDIT: that overstates Castro's tax number by about $2.3M; still under the magic $197M.
   37. asinwreck Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5589229)
Why does Miami want Tate? Andujar, sure, but Tate?
   38. PreservedFish Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5589230)
And I say, bring on the Jeter conspiracy theories!
   39. fra paolo Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5589233)
I didn't see this coming, and I'm angry with myself about that. It's so obvious when one thinks back to the A-Rod trade.
   40. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5589234)
Jeter has never visited the Ecuadorean embassy in London.
   41. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5589235)
Well, when mlb is done investigating the ohtani business they can start on this one.
   42. Hank G. Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:44 AM (#5589237)
Miami Marlins: the new Kansas City Athletics.
   43. Spahn Insane Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5589238)
42 beat me to it.
   44. JRVJ Posted: December 09, 2017 at 11:52 AM (#5589239)
Seems to me that the biggest consequences of this deal are that it takes the Yankees out of the running for Bryce Harper (they don't really need him), and it probably means they won't sign any new players of note this year (they may re-sign Sabathia).

Both these things will affect the FA market in 2017-2018 and 2018-2019.
   45. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5589243)
   46. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5589244)
I vehemently resent the accusation I'm pushing a conspiracy theory. This trade is the result of incompetence, not cunning and scheming.
   47. cardsfanboy Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5589245)
Unless Jeter convinced Stanton to not go to the Cardinals or Giants, it seems it takes a real big stretch of conspiracy nuttiness to think that Jeter was a plant(I mean we are talking about believing global warming is a hoax or a flat earth level of nutters)
   48. winnipegwhip Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5589246)
Derek, I am sorry. I didn't get you anything for Christmas.
   49. Voodoo Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5589247)
I feel bad for Starlin Castro, but the upside as a Cubs fan is it makes the Harper to the Chicago scenario in 2018 seem like the frontrunner now.
   50. winnipegwhip Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5589248)
If the Astros listened to Hal Newhouser in 1992 then Stanton would have been going to Houston.
   51. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5589249)
Agree with cardsfanboy, obviously it's ridiculous to say Jeter's a plant. He's just the frontman for a group that decided one of baseball's least popular teams would be better off without one of its most marketable players, and insisted on going ahead with it when any leverage they had was drastically reduced to practically nothing. If the Marlins have anyone with any real sense in the room, they don't seem to have any say in the decision.
   52. winnipegwhip Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5589250)
Voodoo Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5589247)


I feel bad for Starlin Castro, but the upside as a Cubs fan is it makes the Harper to the Chicago scenario in 2018 seem like the frontrunner now.


I am sure having Kris Bryant on that team helps.
   53. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5589251)
Over/Under on the number of homers for Stanton and Judge this year? 85 HRs?

What are the chances that Castro is moved before the seasons starts?
   54. Howie Menckel Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5589253)
42 beat me to it.

43 beat me to 42
   55. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5589254)
I'm not blaming the Yankees. They're seizing an opportunity that the Marlins handed them.

There were 3 other teams that Stanton indicated he'd accept a trade to - why didn't they step up? Seems like they are the ones who should be criticized by those who think the Yankees got a better deal than warranted. And other teams could have attempted to convince Stanton that they, too, were trade-worthy. Now, I think the Marlins miscalculated the benefits of emphasizing new ownership was doing things differently and actually marketing Stanton to their potential fan base, but they seem to think otherwise, and let other teams know of Stanton's availability. The Yankees made the best offer, at least among the acceptable to Stanton list.
   56. winnipegwhip Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5589255)
Agree with cardsfanboy, obviously it's ridiculous to say Jeter's a plant. He's just the frontman for a group that decided one of baseball's least popular teams would be better off without one of its most marketable players, and insisted on going ahead with it when any leverage they had was drastically reduced to practically nothing. If the Marlins have anyone with any real sense in the room, they don't seem to have any say in the decision.


...but if Jeter traded him to Boston then Gleybar Torres would have been given #2 for a uniform number next year.
   57. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5589257)
Loria’s final middle-finger to the fans was saddling the franchise with the largest contract in baseball history before skipping town with his billions. Everyone knew Stanton wasn’t going to be in Miami for even a third of that contract.
   58. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5589258)
   59. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5589259)
Over/Under on the number of homers for Stanton and Judge this year? 85 HRs?

You know, I'm almost a bit embarrassed to admit this, but "only" 85 HRs would be a little disappointing. Best case scenario with both Judge & Stanton healthy all season will have folks reminiscing about 1961. And let's not forget Gary Sanchez.
   60. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:36 PM (#5589260)
Over/Under on the number of homers for Stanton and Judge this year? 85 HRs?


Over/Under on the number of homers for Stanton, Judge and Sanchez this year? 120 HRs?

Three teammates with 40+ HR each has only been done once outside of pre-humidor Coors, right?
   61. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:37 PM (#5589261)
I know this sounds priggish, but now I feel even worse for Marlins fans. The discouraging thing about this Jeter-faced group is that their assessment was that Stanton's contract was a problem to be excised, rather than seeing Stanton as a player to be embraced.
   62. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:39 PM (#5589262)
Welfare for Billionaires is a bad idea that distorts markets and creates moral hazards for conduct that nobody wants to even acknowledge.


I'm more than willing to acknowledge the moral hazard that results from handing Hank and Hal a billion-dollar asset after having done nothing but sit around on their fat plutocratic butts all their lives.
   63. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:43 PM (#5589265)
I vehemently resent the accusation I'm pushing a conspiracy theory. This trade is the result of incompetence, not cunning and scheming.

I'm sure in your heart you're not pushing a conspiracy theory, but then maybe you should drop the Arnold Johnson references.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree with cardsfanboy, obviously it's ridiculous to say Jeter's a plant. He's just the frontman for a group that decided one of baseball's least popular teams would be better off without one of its most marketable players, and insisted on going ahead with it when any leverage they had was drastically reduced to practically nothing. If the Marlins have anyone with any real sense in the room, they don't seem to have any say in the decision.

...but if Jeter traded him to Boston then Gleybar Torres would have been given #2 for a uniform number next year.

Okay, now that I might buy into. If Jeter had traded Stanton to Boston, his plaque should've been removed from Monument Park, and his name changed to Miss December.
   64. Khrushin it bro Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5589266)
Good get by the Yankees, they must be guessing Harper / Machado are getting seriously paid. I wonder if they want him to opt out.
   65. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5589268)
I know this sounds priggish, but now I feel even worse for Marlins fans. The discouraging thing about this Jeter-faced group is that their assessment was that Stanton's contract was a problem to be excised, rather than seeing Stanton as a player to be embraced.

The underlying problem was putting a team** in Florida in the first place, without a big enough fan base or sufficiently deep pocketed and committed ownership to compete in the long run against the Big Boys.

** And here I include the Rays, though there the balance of blame lies more with the fan base than the owners.
   66. Howie Menckel Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:47 PM (#5589269)
Three teammates with 40+ HR each has only been done once outside of pre-humidor Coors, right?

this was 1973 Braves, of course

HOFer/HOMer Aaron hit 40 HR at age 39 - and 42 the rest of his career
HOMer Darrell Evans hit 41 at age 26 - and reached 40 again at age 38
and Davey Johnson hit 43 at age 30 - besting his 2nd-best career total of 18
   67. Tin Angel Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5589270)
There were 3 other teams that Stanton indicated he'd accept a trade to - why didn't they step up? Seems like they are the ones who should be criticized by those who think the Yankees got a better deal than warranted.


Stanton declined to be traded to St. Louis and San Francisco- it didn't matter what they offered, he didn't want to play there. There were basically two places he was willing to go. You would think the Dodgers could have offered something more than Starlin Castro and some low level prospects though.
   68. Howie Menckel Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5589271)
c'mon, 67, don't burst anyone's delusions
:)
   69. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:51 PM (#5589272)
I think the Johnson-Jeter connection is apt even without the tinfoil hats. Both got their ownership stakes in other franchises due to their Yankee connections, but I don't think they intentionally rolled over for the Yankees. There's even been some defense of Johnson's trading record. But Johnson wasn't particularly good at running a team, and by then few other teams seemed willing to trust themselves to trade with the Yankees. I'm sure Johnson kept making deals he thought were in the best interest of the A's, but they kept losing and the Yankees kept winning.

Jeter isn't a plant, I'm sure he made what he thought was the best deal for the Marlins. I just think he reached that conclusion through a series of terrible decisions
   70. Swoboda is freedom Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5589276)
Three teammates with 40+ HR each has only been done once outside of pre-humidor Coors, right?

73 Braves, Aaron, Evans, and Davey Johnson.
   71. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5589277)
There were basically two places he was willing to go.


So you think Houston and Chicago were fake news?

Not sure what St Louis offered, but from what I read of the Giants' package, it doesn't seem much better than Starlin Castro and some low level prospects, and had ~$20M less in salary relief.
   72. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:58 PM (#5589279)
Jeter isn't a plant, I'm sure he made what he thought was the best deal for the Marlins.


I'm pretty sure that Hill and Denbo made the deal, not Jeter.
   73. Tin Angel Posted: December 09, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5589280)
So you think Houston and Chicago were fake news?


I heard those places possibly for Ohtani, not for Stanton.
   74. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5589284)

Jeter's just a figurehead. The problem lies with the whole new Marlins ownership group, which apparently has decided to give away the franchise's best players for free, AND pick up some of their salary in the process. If I'm a Marlins fan I torch that stadium.

It is true that there were plenty of other organizations that could have taken advantage of the Marlins' self-immolation. If Stanton is worth Starlin Castro, then maybe the Orioles can get Yelich for Ubaldo Jimenez...
   75. cardsfanboy Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5589285)
I heard those places possibly for Ohtani, not for Stanton.


You missed this thread then.
   76. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:08 PM (#5589287)
I'm more than willing to acknowledge the moral hazard that results from handing Hank and Hal a billion-dollar asset after having done nothing but sit around on their fat plutocratic butts all their lives.


So do we ban these Bud/Wendy sort of ownership transfers before or after we eliminate the free money train? Glad to have you on board, comrade.
   77. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5589288)
I heard those places possibly for Ohtani, not for Stanton.


You should check the other Stanton thread while it's still on the hot topics list:

The report added Stanton would consider trades to the Dodgers or Yankees. Another report, from Craig Mish of SiriusXM, added the Cubs and Astros to the list of Stanton’s preferred destinations.
   78. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5589289)
   79. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5589290)
I think the Johnson-Jeter connection is apt even without the tinfoil hats. Both got their ownership stakes in other franchises due to their Yankee connections, but I don't think they intentionally rolled over for the Yankees. There's even been some defense of Johnson's trading record. But Johnson wasn't particularly good at running a team, and by then few other teams seemed willing to trust themselves to trade with the Yankees. I'm sure Johnson kept making deals he thought were in the best interest of the A's, but they kept losing and the Yankees kept winning.

Jeter isn't a plant, I'm sure he made what he thought was the best deal for the Marlins. I just think he reached that conclusion through a series of terrible decisions


Okay, and anyway, I didn't really think you were tinfoiling it. But I think it was more a matter of Jeter's being dealt a bad hand than any great stupidity. And I repeat that Florida never should be hosting Major League Games at any point after the breakup of the Spring training camps, other than maybe a few benefit games for hurricane relief.
   80. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5589295)
And I repeat that Florida never should be hosting Major League Games at any point after the breakup of the Spring training camps


Tampa Bay, I might agree about, though their local TV ratings are decent -- maybe the stadium situation there really is the culprit.

But we still don't know how a Miami-based franchise might do with ownership a little less cynical than Ajit Pai. They've had good ownership as much as the Russian people have enjoyed good government in their history.
   81. Mudpout Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5589297)
Honestly, I didn't think there was any real accusations of tinfoil hatting. I guess... I just think, if you think Miami is an iffy proposition as an MLB site, shouldn't they still be better off with Stanton?
   82. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5589302)
Honestly, I didn't think there was any real accusations of tinfoil hatting. I guess... I just think, if you think Miami is an iffy proposition as an MLB site, shouldn't they still be better off with Stanton?


If the offers for Stanton were that bad, and they obviously were awful, they should just have held onto him. I fail to see how this "deal" improves the Marlins at any level, and it's just another ream job for the team's fans.

What's raising eyebrows isn't that Stanton went to the Yankees; it's that Stanton went to the Yankees for essentially nothing. The Marlins' actions are not those of an organization serious about competing.
   83. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:40 PM (#5589304)
Honestly, I didn't think there was any real accusations of tinfoil hatting. I guess... I just think, if you think Miami is an iffy proposition as an MLB site, shouldn't they still be better off with Stanton?

Probably, at least after Stanton reduced the number of bidders to only four, and formally outed the trade an act of desperation. I also feel bad for Marlins fans, but the problem is that there aren't enough of them. It seems with the fish it's like one death spiral after another.
   84. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5589305)
What's raising eyebrows isn't that Stanton went to the Yankees; it's that Stanton went to the Yankees for essentially nothing. The Marlins' actions are not those of an organization serious about competing

Were the Astros, Cubs & Dodgers in on this plot?
   85. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5589307)
I also feel bad for Marlins fans, but the problem is that there aren't enough of them.


There aren't enough of them because the organization has always been so poorly run. You could have said the same about Mariners and Indians fans in the early nineties, or about Giants fans in the seventies.
   86. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5589310)
Were the Astros, Cubs & Dodgers in on this plot?


As I've said, this debacle is on the Marlins, not on the Yankees.

Don't know why the other teams didn't try to throw in a few cashews to top the Yankees' offer of peanuts. Obviously the Marlins didn't try very hard.
   87. eric Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5589312)
Judge, Gary, Stanton. Judge, Jury, Executioner. Someone better than me at these things will get that to work better.
   88. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5589314)
Looks like Jorge Guzman is the higher upside prospect picked up by the Marlins - MLB Pipeline had him as the #9 prospect in the Yankee system
Scouting grades: Fastball: 80 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 45 | Overall: 50
Signed out of the Dominican Republic by the Astros in 2014, Guzman compiled a 4.63 ERA in Rookie ball during his first two years as a pro. He can light up radar guns like few other pitches can, however. That captivated the Yankees enough to acquire him along with fellow right-hander Albert Abreu when they traded Brian McCann to Houston in November.

With an extremely fast arm and without an excessive amount of effort in his delivery, Guzman can work with a 97-103 mph fastball as a starter. The downside is that he sometimes doesn't know where his heater is going, especially when he crosses into triple digits. He also throws a power slider that lacks consistency and a changeup in its nascent stages.

Though Guzman's control and command require more refinement, they have improved significantly since he focused on his mechanics during extended spring training this year. That will give him a better chance of remaining a starter, and he'll be a potential closer if he winds up in the bullpen.

Only 21. Could be something pretty good if he achieves even average control.
   89. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5589318)
No one should be happier about the Yankees acquiring Stanton than 1st baseman Greg Bird. His left-handed bat is likely to be slotted somewhere between Judge, Stanton & Sanchez, and pitchers shouldn't want to walk him. Won't see that many lefties, either. If he can only stay healthy.
   90. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5589319)
I also feel bad for Marlins fans, but the problem is that there aren't enough of them.

There aren't enough of them because the organization has always been so poorly run. You could have said the same about Mariners and Indians fans in the early nineties, or about Giants fans in the seventies.


Sure, and you could also have said it about lots of other teams, like the Orioles when Angelos was sticking his nose into everything, or the A's going back to their time in Philadelphia. But you'd think that when it comes to placing expansion teams into areas with questionable demographics and knowing nothing but Spring training ticket prices, the other owners might have been a bit more careful about those to whom they were granting franchises, both about their financial situation AND their willingness to spend the money that's necessary to field a competitive team. It's hard to believe that they did that in the case of the Marlins.
   91. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5589325)
Judge, Gary, Stanton. Judge, Jury, Executioner. Someone better than me at these things will get that to work better.


Or not. I've already heard talk of putting a Stanton Island out in the bleachers next to the Judge's Chambers.
   92. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5589328)
Scouting grades: Fastball: 80 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 45 | Control: 45 | Overall: 50


I wonder how many 80 fastballs never make it to the show. I wonder how many prospects rated an overall 50 do.
   93. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5589331)
With an extremely fast arm and without an excessive amount of effort in his delivery, Guzman can work with a 97-103 mph fastball as a starter. The downside is that he sometimes doesn't know where his heater is going, especially when he crosses into triple digits. He also throws a power slider that lacks consistency and a changeup in its nascent stages.


You'd think that for what they're getting, the Yankees could've thrown in Steve Dalkowski.
   94. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5589332)
Judge, Gary, Stanton. Judge, Jury, Executioner. Someone better than me at these things will get that to work better.

Or not. I've already heard talk of putting a Stanton Island out in the bleachers next to the Judge's Chambers.

Wouldn't that be better placed somewhere in the left field upper deck?
   95. Ziggy's screen name Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:41 PM (#5589340)
Trying to work this out and having trouble probably b/c I'm so hungry but here goes:

It seems a huge coincidence that Stanton isn't getting any cash out of this. He can veto any trade, so one would think that if the Marlins are getting any value out of this at all, he would be able to steal a piece of it by threatening to veto the deal. So if the Marlins think that they're coming out $X ahead here, Stanton should be able to get $X-Y out of the Marlins, where Y is equal to the value to Stanton of playing in New York instead of Miami. And it would be a huge coincidence if X=Y.

Maybe I'm way off here (haven't had lunch yet and it's almost 3), but you'd think that this is the sort of thing that agents get paid for.
   96. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:44 PM (#5589341)
Wouldn't that be better placed somewhere in the left field upper deck?


I don't know. Isn't Staten Island actually more behind home plate? About 20 miles behind home plate?
   97. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5589344)
For the Statcast fans:
According to Statcast™, Stanton and Judge have combined for 31 HR of 115+ mph since the start of the 2015 season, while the rest of the players in Majors have tallied 26.

The Yankee Stadium repair crew may be pretty busy fixing things in 2018. Judge - just a rookie in 2017 - broke a TV and dented a door last season.
   98. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5589345)
It seems a huge coincidence that Stanton isn't getting any cash out of this.


We don't know that he's not.
   99. JRVJ Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5589348)
Sure, and you could also have said it about lots of other teams, like the Orioles when Angelos was sticking his nose into everything, or the A's going back to their time in Philadelphia. But you'd think that when it comes to placing expansion teams into areas with questionable demographics and knowing nothing but Spring training ticket prices, the other owners might have been a bit more careful about those to whom they were granting franchises, both about their financial situation AND their willingness to spend the money that's necessary to field a competitive team. It's hard to believe that they did that in the case of the Marlins.


You're talking about the owners of MLB teams in the last 30 years or some other, less cheapskate and pound-foolish group of wealthy men?
   100. Tony S Posted: December 09, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5589351)
Sure, and you could also have said it about lots of other teams, like the Orioles when Angelos was sticking his nose into everything, or the A's going back to their time in Philadelphia. But you'd think that when it comes to placing expansion teams into areas with questionable demographics and knowing nothing but Spring training ticket prices, the other owners might have been a bit more careful about those to whom they were granting franchises, both about their financial situation AND their willingness to spend the money that's necessary to field a competitive team. It's hard to believe that they did that in the case of the Marlins.


But that's a reflection on the owners, not on the actual cities or markets. The expansion Seattle Mariners were put in a metro area hemmed in by the ocean on one side, the Cascades on the other, and an international border to the north. They suffered awful ownership in their early years (I'm sure you remember George Argyros), the team lost big, and their attendance was lousy. They kept trading away their good young talent (Ruppert Jones, Mark Langston, etc.) There was plenty of talk about how Seattle was "not a viable baseball market". But they eventually got some competent ownership, DIDN'T trade Ken Griffey as soon as his salary matured, and finally enjoyed a strong playoff run in 1995 -- at which point local interest in the team and attendance exploded. Even with the franchise mired in mediocrity over the last decade, attendance remains reasonable, and the Mariners are ingrained in the local culture.

The Padres, in a corner of the country like the Mariners and Marlins, haven't been a huge on-field success throughout most of their history, but after an early bout with bad ownership that almost got the team moved to Washington, the franchise stabilized, improved, and remains an integral part of the community's identity. The current team management seems to have its act together. Nobody's talking about relocating the team.

There's no reason the Marlins can't do the same. But they've NEVER had decent ownership, and continue not to, and until that's the case it's still fair to say we don't really know if Miami can support a baseball team or not. It's analogous to a state government chronically underfunding public schools, and when the schools predictably struggle pointing at them and claiming that this proves public education doesn't work.
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