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Tuesday, March 06, 2018

Yankees need to stop messing with their star reliever | New York Post

So the whole premise of the article is pretty much bologna.

Boone pretty much solidified Green’s bullpen future when he said after the game, “I think probably our preference is to eventually move him back [to the bullpen], but we want to at least be in that position should something come up.”

The move back to the pen would be “pretty soon,” Boone said.

That would be the smart move.

Jim Furtado Posted: March 06, 2018 at 07:00 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: chad green, yankees

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   1. TomH Posted: March 06, 2018 at 07:18 AM (#5634291)
I dunno Jim. The article contains a very strong opinion, with some ##s to back it up. It's written precisely because of the quotes you see from Boone. The author would prefer a very different approach than Boone's.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 06, 2018 at 08:40 AM (#5634307)
Opening the FA...ok, so Green has a 'rising fastball,' eh? Bologna.

Moving on...Station's bad day in LF means that 'It’s not easy to change outfield positions and going from right to left is a big adjustment,' despite the many players who alternate easily between left and right on a weekly basis. Yeah, I'm comfortable going with bologna.

Closing the FA...
   3. Accent Shallow wishes he had more middle fingers Posted: March 06, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5634321)
Opening the FA...ok, so Green has a 'rising fastball,' eh? Bologna.


No one literally throws a rising fastball, but it's possible to throw a fastball will drop less than would be expected (due to a higher spin rate than average), leading to it being perceived as rising.
   4. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5634340)
No one literally throws a rising fastball


Not true - a submariner can throw one, if he throws hard enough and his release point is low enough. I remember seeing Byung-Hyun Kim do that on numerous occasions, back in the day.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5634417)
I can see why the Yankees want to see if Green can start. He was a SP until recently, and dominating as he was last year, if he could do 80% as well in the rotation, he'd be hugely valuable. It could take him from a 1-2 win player to a 3-5 win player. That upside is worth some risk.

People just continue to massively overvalue relief pitchers.
   6. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 06, 2018 at 10:58 AM (#5634418)
No one literally throws a rising fastball, but it's possible to throw a fastball will drop less than would be expected (due to a higher spin rate than average), leading to it being perceived as rising.

Right, and if the author would have said that, it wouldn't have been bologna.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:01 AM (#5634423)
Right, and if the author would have said that, it wouldn't have been bologna.

I think "rising fastball" is a baseball term of art, not meant to be taken literally.
   8. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:06 AM (#5634427)
I think "rising fastball" is a baseball term of art, not meant to be taken literally.

Eh, I think I would disagree with that - it's been used for too long, too consistently, by people who were/are too ignorant of the actual physics for at least the default assumption not to be that it's intended literally.
   9. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:19 AM (#5634440)
I’m with snapper on this one. While I agree people DO take it literally it’s a descriptive term. When Aaron Judge “crushes” a home run the ball is not actually crushed. It is still quite round.

   10. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:21 AM (#5634442)
As for the issue at hand is this that unusual? Having a guy like Green start in spring training has a couple of benefits. First he’s facing real big league hitters rather than some AA guy who is making up numbers. Secondly, it stretches him out a bit so even if the Yankees aren’t particularly interested in having him start it makes him more able to pitch multiple innings if that is what they need.
   11. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:23 AM (#5634446)
When Aaron Judge “crushes” a home run the ball is not actually crushed. It is still quite round.

Ha - true, but it's not like players said for decades, "I swear, man, I saw the ball after he hit it and it was flat like a pancake!" like they said "I swear, his fastball actually rises and jumps over your bat!"
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 11:25 AM (#5634447)
As for the issue at hand is this that unusual? Having a guy like Green start in spring training has a couple of benefits. First he’s facing real big league hitters rather than some AA guy who is making up numbers. Secondly, it stretches him out a bit so even if the Yankees aren’t particularly interested in having him start it makes him more able to pitch multiple innings if that is what they need.

I think that makes total sense. His role is to pitch 2 innings at a go. Let hinm stretch out. When he gets up to 3 and 4 IP in an outing, if he's maintaining his stuff well, then you can consider whether to try hinm at 5 IP.
   13. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5634631)
Ha - true, but it's not like players said for decades, "I swear, man, I saw the ball after he hit it and it was flat like a pancake!" like they said "I swear, his fastball actually rises and jumps over your bat!"


I have literally never heard a player say either of those things.
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: March 06, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5634636)
Forget about the rising fastball question*, is it settled that Chad Green is a star reliever?

* Sorry Elroy, I'm with the majority here. I don't think it was used literally.
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 06, 2018 at 03:37 PM (#5634640)
So why was there a whole Mythbusters episode dedicated to debunking it if everyone knows it was always just a term of art?
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: March 06, 2018 at 03:44 PM (#5634644)
So why was there a whole Mythbusters episode dedicated to debunking it if everyone knows it was always just a term of art?


At some point in time, batters may have believed an overhand fastball could rise when it got close to the plate. That would have been a really, really long time ago, Jamie and Adam's work notwithstanding.
   17. eddieot Posted: March 06, 2018 at 05:07 PM (#5634691)
This piece explains the concept of the rising fastball pretty well. Pitchers call it "carry."
   18. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: March 06, 2018 at 09:11 PM (#5634727)
#FAKENEWS!!!


Brendan Kuty
‏Verified account @BrendanKutyNJ

Green has been starting, but Boone said he expects to start easing him back into that multi-inning reliever role "he was so good in last year" for #Yankees
   19. Leroy Kincaid Posted: March 07, 2018 at 06:35 AM (#5634772)
Not true - a submariner can throw one, if he throws hard enough and his release point is low enough. I remember seeing Byung-Hyun Kim do that on numerous occasions, back in the day.


Going by this, if the pitcher threw the ball straight up in the air it would be "rising".
   20. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 07, 2018 at 09:17 AM (#5634796)
#FAKENEWS!!!


Yeah it seemed like a stretch for a few reasons. One, as mentioned above, is that Green was so damn good in this role last year. Also his repertoire, leaning heavily on a really good fastball, isn't particularly well-suited for 3 trips through a major league lineup. And of course the Yankees are going to rely on the strength and depth of their bullpen more than most teams because they have a really good bullpen; risking a key member of their relief staff when they have several decent-enough options in AAA seems like a risky idea - Chance Adams, Luis Cessa, or Domingo German are probably adequate to fill in for occasional starts.
   21. PreservedFish Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:54 AM (#5634836)
I used to throw a really good rising wiffleball - one time I aimed it for the strike zone and it rose and went over the 10 foot wall upon which the strike zone was painted - but I seem to have lost the ability to throw it. Now I'm more or less limited to my curveball, which can still curl behind the batters head and into the strize zone on a good day.
   22. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 07, 2018 at 10:57 AM (#5634844)

When Aaron Judge “crushes” a home run the ball is not actually crushed. It is still quite round.
Not at the actual time of impact between bat and ball.
   23. Captain Supporter Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:02 AM (#5634853)
For those of you not familiar with the NYC media, Kevin Kernan is an aging, cynical sportswriter who stopped working hard years ago and now simply writes knee jerk stories about whatever 'controversy' he can make up. His go to story is the need for the Yankees to trade prospects for some aging veteran whenever they lose a couple of games. You can count on that story at least 10 times per season.

If Stanton makes another error in left field, a typical Kernan story would be that Boone must never play him there again or he would ruin Stanton's career and jeopardize the season. Its the kind of story he can write in 20 minutes and then get to the bar. Why do real work when you can do that kind of thing?
   24. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:08 AM (#5634859)

When Aaron Judge “crushes” a home run the ball is not actually crushed. It is still quite round.

Not at the actual time of impact between bat and ball.



True
   25. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:55 AM (#5634889)
Forget about the rising fastball question*, is it settled that Chad Green is a star reliever?


Let alone "their" star reliever as in the headline. Chapman and Betances are still on the team, right? (To be fair, Green had the best ERA+, FIP, etc. on the team last year).
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 07, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5634892)
Let alone "their" star reliever as in the headline. Chapman and Betances are still on the team, right? (To be fair, Green had the best ERA+, FIP, etc. on the team last year).

Betances hasn't been that guy since May 2016. He's their 5th most trusted RP, at best.

But Chapman and Robertson are both probably better. Kahnle maybe has a case too.
   27. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 07, 2018 at 12:18 PM (#5634917)
On a related note: At least according to the Washington Post, the Yanks-Mets are on the MLB Network today at 1:10. Cessa and Wheeler are the starters.
   28. Blastin Posted: March 07, 2018 at 12:57 PM (#5634956)
I mean, what does "star" reliever mean? Is it quality or fame?

By quality, yeah, I think it's Robertson/Green/Chapman/Betancesgoodversion, Kahnle, Warren, Betancesbadversion

By fame, probably the all-stars, right? So then Betances would be a bigger "star."


Not that this really matters. Bored at work.
   29. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5635054)
How sweet is it to realize that Billy McKinney, who put the Yanks ahead today with an 8th inning grand slam, came along with Torres and Warren in the Rent-a-Chapman trade.
   30. Nasty Nate Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:13 PM (#5635066)
What's weird is all the fantasy resources still have Betances as the next-in-line for saves. If Chapman got hurt, I assume Robertson would get first crack at the job.
   31. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 07, 2018 at 04:49 PM (#5635074)
How sweet is it to realize that Billy McKinney, who put the Yanks ahead today with an 8th inning grand slam, came along with Torres and Warren in the Rent-a-Chapman trade.


He has a really nice swing. Don't think he'll ever hit with enough power for a corner outfielder, but he hits the ball hard to all fields. I could imagine him putting up Jerry Mumphrey numbers.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 07, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5635093)
What's weird is all the fantasy resources still have Betances as the next-in-line for saves. If Chapman got hurt, I assume Robertson would get first crack at the job.

Funny. I guess they didn't watch the post-season.
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: March 08, 2018 at 09:50 AM (#5635298)
What's weird is all the fantasy resources still have Betances as the next-in-line for saves. If Chapman got hurt, I assume Robertson would get first crack at the job.


Funny. I guess they didn't watch the post-season.
Maybe it's just groupthink and laziness. Probably the first site that put out a closer depth chart over the winter picked Betances as the next-in-line, probably just as a carryover from last year's chart, and the other sites copied that.
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 08, 2018 at 10:02 AM (#5635303)
Maybe it's just groupthink and laziness. Probably the first site that put out a closer depth chart over the winter picked Betances as the next-in-line, probably just as a carryover from last year's chart, and the other sites copied that.

Or even lazier. They just looked at last year's save totals on BRef, and Betances is 2nd on the Yankees with 10. Of course that ignores Robertson's 13 with CHW, and, as I said, ignores completely the late season, and post-season usage.

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