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I'm fine with a bunch of slow guys as Robin Ventura hasn't really figured out a way to best utilize the running game.
But yeah the double plays are annoying. I think the Sox hit into about 15 of them this weekend.
Unauthorized Dancing In Clubhouse
And Ellsbury was so despondent over whatever Youk said/did that he had an MVP caliber season last year.
playing third base regularly is a loopy idea now that he has developed chronic injuries
Correct. They should've done something during the offseason as Youk has worked his way into 1b-dh status.
How did the team do?
Based on nothing, where multiple = more than two teams, I have a rather easy time believing that three teams called the Boston FO to enquire about Youkilis.
Maybe. We have no idea. Nor do we know if what was asked in return they were willing to give.
I'm not defending what they received but as this played out they had no leverage unless they were willing to develop leverage and the only way to do that was to put him in the lineup, which meant sitting better players. They want to win and winning meant keeping him on the bench.
i get the trade now if they think middlebrooks is any kind of for real because he is then a legit plan b
but trading youkilis in the offseason when you don't have a clearly defined plan b is very risky and is typically the sign of bad management.
ex: the guy we have driving the forklift is a bum. fire him. (1 day later) why is the warehouse all backed up? what do you mean nobody else is forklift certified and nobody can find a temp certified to drive a forkflift? what idiot allowed that to happen?
I wonder if they only offered minor leaguers, and Boston felt they had to get MLB-type talent in return to "help" this year's club, so as to not seem like they were totally punting on this season.
I didn't suggest trading him in the offseason. I suggested they had to do something about 3B in the offseason as Youk wasn't going to last there. One easy way would've been to keep Lowrie and see if he could handle the position.
Did they offer anything?
It seems like the performance of Middlebrooks shows that they didn't have to do something about 3B in the offseason.
wasn't specifically responding to your post but thanks for the feedback
once they traded lowrie the sox tied themselves to youkilis at third base it would appear
Of course they had leverage! It's called walking the ### away. Nine times out of ten, when you do that, the party that's been low-balling crawls back with a better offer in hand. Because getting a lesser bargain is still infinitesimally better than getting no bargain at all.
Well, right. But that's why you keep Ellsbury and trade away the guy who acted like a dick, had trouble staying healthy this year and has a history of injury problems, was mediocre at best when he actually made his way onto the field this year, and whose contract is about to expire.
While I agree that Kelsey Grammer is a big a###### and should sire no children, there are laws and conventions that keep us from neutering him.
The bolded item is part of why you are in no rush to trade him. You aren't stuck with this guy for the next five years, he's not Alfonso Soriano (I hear the Cubs would listen if a team called) or Vernon Wells, he's a rental. If he truly becomes a jackass you have the option of releasing him or trading him for this sort of lousy package in a month, the White Sox aren't going to pull Brett Lillebridge off the table.
In order to justify this deal as it was made someone needs to be able to say with certainty that Kevin Youkilis is going to actively cost the Boston Red Sox games by being a spectacular ass in the clubhouse. I'll concede that that is a possibility but the two players we can say with certainty he had issues with during his tenure were Manny Ramirez who played at an incredibly high level and Jacoby Ellsbury who played at an incredibly high level. We also have comments from the man who took Youk's job saying in the Boston Herald the other day
Given the evidence that I have at my disposal, I have a difficult time believing Youk is causing tangible problems.
Youk
Youk
Youk
I don't know, Middlebrooks has a .380 BAbip this season, 37 strikeouts and 8 walks... that .365 OBP is kind of empty.
Youk
Youk
Neither player is going to play a meaningful role if the Sox are going to contend (this year or in the future). The $1.5 M could come in handy I suppose but I'm not counting on that being a difference maker.
While I mostly agree, I'll also point out that at the beginning of the year we would have said the same about Cody Ross, Daniel Nava, Podsednik, Middlebrooks...
What?
Podsednik I'll give you. I don't recall that he was even connected to the Sox prior to Opening Day but I could be wrong about that.
As for Nava we'd have to split hairs. I expected to see him in Boston at some point this season. Meaningful role? Perhaps not.
The original point about the guys acquired in the Youk deal remains true - they're filler. Junk. The same cannot in any sense be said about at least half of the guys you mentioned.
I don't even know why I'm arguing about this like it matters. Sorry. Bad day all around so far.
Having said that I stand by my statement. It's possible that Lillebridge might hit .380 in a sample size fluke but I'm not expecting it.
Yes, that makes more sense.
Even Ross--yeah, SSS and all but a .581 SLG over 40+ games? How likely was that?
They don't have leverage if everyone knows they want to get rid of him. Yes, the Red Sox could walk away but they have to look at that miserable ######## on the bench pissing and moaning. All the while, stories that they've passed him around like a hooker at a bachelor party are flying fast. And there are stories that the locker room is a mess. Who is the reason the locker room is a mess? Could it be the guy who lost his job with the bad attitude and who's already been called out by the manager? Youk isn't gaining in value, he's losing value and everyone knows it. They moved Youk as if one more day with him was one day too many.
See how he hits like it's a hockey stick, see how he bobs.
I'm crying.
Chicken rolled in cornflakes, waiting for the beer to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody monster.
Josh, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow wide.
I am goose eggman, they are goose eggmen.
I hit the wall-ball, Youk Youk achoo.
Best Regards,
Youk
This is the part that I truly don't get. Ok, let's just grant that it's understood that the presence of Kevin Youkilis is closely correlated with the incidence of clubhouse cancer (CC). Why not wait and see if the CC ever actually emerges* before removing the compromised, but still useful organ? Everyone knows that CC clears up immediately following Youkectomy, so what's the rush?
* The diagnostic symptom being the losing of games at a rate out of proportion with the talent on the roster, which the sox were clearly not suffering from in recent days.
From their actions they wanted him gone before it spread. I wonder if he spread word that there were clubhouse issues.
I agree.
As an alternative, I suggest Wily Mo Middlebrooks
Then so be it. The Red Sox are getting very little benefit out of this trade so that's a minimal risk. Chicago pulls Lillebridge, oh well, find another team willing to give up a utility man and a crappy minor league pitcher for Youk. Can't find one and he's become an incredible pain in the ass? Release him. The saving of $1.5 million plus Stewart and Lillebridge is just not a reason to strike while the iron is hot.
In the meantime if Middlebrooks stops posting a .390 BABIP or someone gets hurt or maybe Youk starts to hit then you've got an awfully good fall back position. I just don't see the rush on this deal.
I don't think "WMB" is a nickname. Nobody CALLS him that. It's just internet shorthand. He does need a nickname. I think I may call him Levi. Kid's got the baseball body. Between that, prospect status, utter lack of control of the strike zone, and now all this CC -> Youkectomy drama, he really is the anti-Youk.
But Youkilis was the Jewish one!
They got next to nothing in this trade. If the trade market is that screwy, then they are better off sitting on him, and getting nothing. At least the next time you are in a "must trade" situation, other teams will have to respect that leverage.
They could have had Alfonso Soriano.
Yuk.
I'm not saying it would have been a better deal, but after getting hot in May, Soriano really hasn't stopped hitting yet.... He looked like he was going to do the swan dive back to dead cat bounce land a couple weeks back, but he's picked it back up the last week.
If it weren't for the two years left after this one, I think the Cubs would legitimately be able to find some takers for him at this point without having to eat much salary. His OPS+ in May was 154 and 153 this month. If it weren't for his absolutely putrid April (and first week or so of May), he'd be a legitimate all-star candidate. As it is, I think it will be an open question as to whether the Cubs' one rep is him, Castro, or LaHair. I'd like to see LaHair, but current trends for all regarded continue - I think fonsie might well deserve the trip.
Brooks Schmidt.
Why so much hate for Youk? I really don't get it...yes, the guy is rather intense, yes he clashed with Manny, yes he clashed with Ellsbury at one point. So what? I am solidly in line with Youk on the Youk-vs-Valentine front (obv as much as can be known). Let's see - manager pulls a dick move and calls Youk out, who is then immediately defended by other players and Valentine tries to retreat from his statement. Youk is then upset Valentine didn't come talk to him about playing time. Valentine said he though someone else had talked to Youk. WTF does a manager do if they don't even talk to a player about playing time? Then, when Youk is traded, everyone asked about it says what a great guy he was, including the player replacing Youk. So again, why is he a bad guy?
He's a guy that lives on the margins on MLB and it requires him to throw harder than 90mph. His velocity is down this year, so maybe it will bounce back, but even then he's still, at absolute best, a middle reliever.
Meanwhile, White Sox 3b have combined for something around -2 WAR so far, even finding a 1 WAR player (and maybe that's what Youk is now) is helpful. Also helpful is that there is now no need to rush Morel back from his injury.
Gordon Edes has published a piece on Youkilis' clashes in the clubhouse with both Valentine and a number of his teammates. I think we can say pretty clearly that this trade was not about Youkilis being a bad player, and all about the clubhouse. (It wasn't, apparently, only about the Youk-V relationship.)
What a shitty trade.
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