BBTF's Transaction Oracle Discussion :: Birth Certificate Madness

Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Wednesday, February 20, 2002

Birth Certificate Madness

With the new crackdown on foreigners, we will likely have a flood of latin players having their real ages revealed. This entry will be updated as new information comes to light.

New Entries

Anaheim Angels - P Hatuey Mendoza - Add 1 year
Anaheim Angels - P Joel Peralta - Add 4 years
Atlanta Braves - 1B Julio Franco - Add 2 years
Chicago White Sox - P Geronimo Mendoza - Add 2 years
Florida Marlins - OF Abraham Nunez - Add 2 years
Florida Marlins - SS Pablo Ozuna - Add 3 years
Houston Astros - OF Modesto de Aza - Add 2 years
Houston Astros - P Francisco Pena - Add 1 year
Houston Astros - P Miguel Saladin - Add 3 years
Seattle Mariners - P Aquilino Lopez - Add 5 years

============================================================
Anaheim Angels - P Ramon Ortiz - Add 3 years
Anaheim Angels - OF Elpidio Guzman - Add 2 years
Atlanta Braves - P Joslin Ramirez - Add 2 years
Atlanta Braves - SS Rafael Furcal - Add 2 years
Atlanta Braves - C Luis Taveras - Add 2 years
Atlanta Braves - P Jose Cabrera - Add 3 years
Baltimore Orioles - OF Ruben Francisco - Add 4 years
Baltimore Orioles - P Juan Figueroa - Add 2 years
Baltimore Orioles - P Miguel Felix - Add 2 years
Baltimore Orioles - SS Ed Rogers - Add 3 years
Baltimore Orioles - 2B Omar Rogers - Add 3 years
Baltimore Orioles - OF Ruben Francisco - Add 3 years
Boston Red Sox - 1B Danny Figueroa - Add 3 years
Boston Red Sox - 3B Andy Morales - Add 3 years
Chicago Cubs - P Juan Cruz - Add 2 years
Cincinnati Reds - P Luis Pineda - Add 4 years
Cleveland Indians - P Bartolo Colon - Add 2 years
Cleveland Indians - P Martin Vargas - Add 1 year
Cleveland Indians - P Nerio Rodriguez - Add 2 years
Cleveland Indians - C Armando Camcaro - Add 6 months
Cleveland Indians - SS Hector Luna - Add 2 years
Cleveland Indians - P Jose Colon - Add 3 years
Cleveland Indians - 2B Henry Pichardo - Add 2 years
Colorado Rockies _ SS Juan Uribe - Add 1 year
Colorado Rockies - OF Mario Encarnacion - Add 18 months
Detroit Tigers - OF Rich Gomez - Add 1 year
Houston Astros - P Octavio Dotel - Add 2 years
Houston Astros - P Rodrigo Rosario - Add 2 years
Kansas City Royals - SS Neifi Perez - Add 2 years
Los Angeles Dodgers - 3B Adrian Beltre - Subtract 1 year
Los Angeles Dodgers - C Angelo Encarnacion - Add 4 years
Los Angeles Dodgers - P Odalis Perez - Subtract 5 days
Montreal Expos - OF Wilkin Ruan - Add 1 year
New York Mets - SS Rey Ordo?ez - Add 2 years
New York Mets - OF Timoniel Perez - Add 2 years
New York Yankees - SS Manny Alexander - To be announced
New York Yankees - P Orlando Hernandez - Add 3 years
New York Yankees - IF Enrique Wilson - Add 2 years
Oakland A’s - P Luis Vizcaino - Add 2 years
Pittsburgh Pirates - P Wilson Guzman - Add 4 years
San Diego Padres - SS Deivi Cruz - Add 3 years
San Diego Padres - 2B Bernabel Castro - Add 1 year
San Diego Padres - IF Cesar Saba - Add 3 years
San Diego Padres - OF Jovanny Sosa - Add 1 year
San Diego Padres - P Isabel Giron - Add 4 years
San Francisco Giants - P Manny Aybar - Add 2 years
San Francisco Giants - P Felix Diaz - Add 1 year
San Francisco Giants - IF Juan Melo - Subtract 6 months
Seattle Mariners - OF Miguel Richardson - Add 6 years
Seattle Mariners - SS Antonio Perez - Add 1 year
St. Louis cardinals - SS Edgar Renteria - Subtract 1 year
Tampa Bay Devil Rays - P Esteban Yan - Subtract 1 year
Tampa Bay Devil Rays - SS Ramon Soler - Add 4 years
Tampa Bay Devil Rays - 2B Wilmy Caceres - Add 5 years
Tampay Bay Devil Rays - P Jesus Colome - Add 3 years
Tampa Bay Devil Rays - P Enger Veras - To be announced
Texas Rangers - 2B Marcus Agramonte - Add 6 years
Texas Rangers - P Omar Beltre - Add 2 years
Toronto Blue Jays - P Felix Heredia - Add 1 year

Dan Szymborski Posted: February 20, 2002 at 02:06 AM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Repoz

Posted: February 20, 2002 at 02:40 AM (#554730)

The doctors are already lying about Furcal's wifes due date.

2. Stevens Posted: February 20, 2002 at 03:23 AM (#554731)

Don't forget Cubs prospect:

3. Alan Posted: February 20, 2002 at 04:05 AM (#554734)

"I'm crossing my fingers for Jose Reyes."

I'm crossing my fingers for him, but not because of his age. I don't care how old he is as long as he develops well. Rey Ordonez sucks!

4. Dan Szymborski

Posted: February 20, 2002 at 06:15 AM (#554742)

Renteria's an older update, but I figured I'd include it. He's one of those guys that added a year so that he could sign at 15 instead of waiting until 16.

5. RJ in TO Posted: February 20, 2002 at 06:42 AM (#554744)

It doesn't matter. Even though he retired he can still hit. My big question is how old is Julio Franco. We may finally get a difinitive answer. I'm guessing 73.

6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 20, 2002 at 08:03 AM (#554750)

Clacson said:

7. Alan Posted: February 20, 2002 at 08:11 AM (#554752)

John wrote: <i>Clacson said:

8. Repoz

Posted: February 20, 2002 at 05:33 PM (#554759)

So Rey Ordonez is now 2 years older....that means that he spent 2 years of total suckdom elsewhere....could have been that extended stay at The Ray Oyler Hitting Academy.

9. Dan Szymborski

Posted: February 20, 2002 at 05:55 PM (#554760)

One of my hacking mass teams (98? 99?) was named the Ancient Mystical Clan of Ray Oyler.

10. RJ in TO Posted: February 20, 2002 at 05:59 PM (#554761)

So the new question is: Now that they have proof that he lied, do the Mets cut Rey, and find a dirt cheap replacement who can hit?

I just can't believe that we have undoubtedly seen Rey's offensive peak, and it's all downhill from here. I didn't think there could be any more downhill. Hell, they're going to have to dig a hole just so there can be more downhill.

11. Mike Posted: February 20, 2002 at 06:05 PM (#554762)

Dan Contilli:

Re: Zambrano -- Nothing has come out yet, but last year, then pitching coach Oscar Acosta basically accused Zambrano of fudging his age, saying something along the lines of "He's 19? Heck, he said he was 19 when I coached him in A-ball 2 years ago." (This was roughly the same time Acosta accused Will Ohman of being a wimp because he complained that his arm hurt.)

In any event, that's the last I've heard.

12. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 20, 2002 at 08:19 PM (#554765)

Arthur said: I still want to know how old Fernando Valenzuela really is.

Fernando said: I was thirty..uh..twenty-five..uh..twenty in 1981. Yeah, that's the ticket!

13. Bob T Posted: February 20, 2002 at 08:29 PM (#554766)

Re: Odalis Perez

14. Liver of blaspheming 'zop Posted: February 20, 2002 at 09:16 PM (#554769)

does anyone know if the baseballreference.com ages have been updated yet?

did edgar renteria hit .309 at age 19!? whoa....

15. jwb Posted: February 20, 2002 at 09:47 PM (#554770)

P Pedro Borbon - Add 21 years

16. ColonelTom Posted: February 20, 2002 at 10:14 PM (#554771)

Regarding Neifi, maybe the Royals should focus on getting that deal voided. At least then they'd have accomplished something positive this offseason...

17. Colin Posted: February 21, 2002 at 05:06 AM (#554778)

_4_ years on Colon? Holey freakin' moley. That is just absurd.

18. Repoz

Posted: February 21, 2002 at 05:45 AM (#554780)

YIKES....Bendejo News Service is reporting that Fidel Castro actually was 8 when he overthrew the Cuban government!

19. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 21, 2002 at 09:01 AM (#554781)

Repoz said: (YIKES....Bendejo News Service is reporting that Fidel Castro actually was 8 when he overthrew the Cuban government! )

That means he wasn't born when he tried out for the Senators! :-)

20. Darren

Posted: February 21, 2002 at 06:46 PM (#554785)

Colon! Your trickery cost me dearly in my fantasy league last year! I am voiding your contract!

21. ColonelTom Posted: February 21, 2002 at 09:49 PM (#554788)

I wonder if the Yankees will be the team that takes a stand on this issue (with Enrique Wilson)? The quote from Brian Cashman: "Any issues will be handled with Enrique and his agent. Age misrepresentation is a serious thing. We have certain rights, no doubt about it. If there is any action taken, we'll announce it."

I also liked Wilson's response: "I don't know how it happened. I'm going to be the same player, and do the same things." Since he's 28 and not 26, he's probably right - statistically speaking, at 28, he's significantly less likely to show improvement beyond his current level. :-)

22. RJ in TO Posted: February 21, 2002 at 10:06 PM (#554790)

Going by their history, shouldn't the Yankees cut him? And if they don't, doesn't that lend support to Morales' argument that they cut him as a result of performance, and his age was an excuse, and that they owe him his money? I'm just wondering.

23. Alan Posted: February 21, 2002 at 10:29 PM (#554792)

Dan,

After Morales was cut, there was a rumor floated around by a lot of people that the Yankees knew all along that Morales was lying about his age and that they would use it as a reason not to have to pay him if they were to cut him. If that's true, then there definitely is something wrong with it.

24. jwb Posted: February 22, 2002 at 05:01 PM (#554805)

Update on Andy Morales from Baseball America:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/brief.html

Wednesday, February 20

Red Sox sign Morales

The Boston Red Sox agreed to a minor league contract with Andy

25. Ken Arneson Posted: February 22, 2002 at 06:39 PM (#554806)

Luis Vizcaino is now 26, not 24. Both Esteban and Franklyn German are probably older, too, details to follow...

Quote from Paul DePodesta: "It's not really a concern for us unless he's 35. . . . It probably would have more impact on guys in A-ball than at this level because here it's all about performance. But if you've got a kid at A-ball and you think he's 21 and find out he's 24, that's a huge difference."

26. Colin Posted: February 22, 2002 at 07:47 PM (#554808)

As a practical matter, how did Rey Ordonez and Orlando Hernandez just magically come up with new, correct documentation? They can't have traveled to Cuba to get it, and I'm guessing the Cuban government didn't just mail it to them. Had they had the documentation all along and were just lying about it?

And for that matter, I guess these guys both took on citizenship of Venezuela or something like that so that they could be free agents - what kind of documentation did they provide to the government of their new countries?

27. Aaron Gleeman Posted: February 23, 2002 at 03:05 AM (#554814)

Cristian Guzman and Luis Rivas are both in Twins camp without any reports about their age changing, so it looks like the Twins DP-combo of the future is safe!

28. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2002 at 06:30 PM (#554819)

Any word on Lesli Brea?

29. Dan Szymborski

Posted: February 23, 2002 at 09:12 PM (#554820)

Brea's a tricky one. There hasn't been any official word as to his age other than that he keeps changing his mind as to what it is. I've heard various numbers, all between 21 and 26.

30. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2002 at 08:00 PM (#554823)

That Enrique Wilson/Damaso Marte trade's just working out great for everyone concerned. Wilson's aged 2 years in the offseason, and I just read in the paper that the Pirates thought Marte had one more option remaining (1) than he actually does (0). He's the third lefty entering camp, and it looks like they're going to have to pass him through waivers in the spring.

31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2002 at 04:19 PM (#554825)

Saw in the paper this morning that Deivi Cruz is still claiming to be 26, despite the documentary evidence to the contrary.

It's like Watergate: Stonewall the bastards! Deny everything!

32. RJ in TO Posted: February 25, 2002 at 10:56 PM (#554827)

Mondesi is the age he says! He finally turned up to camp, and there aren't any reports about him actually being 40. Apparently, he was actually dealing with personal matters. Who knew?

33. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 26, 2002 at 11:01 PM (#554829)

Rotoworld ( Http://www.rotoworld.com/ ) has three guys from the Giants changing ages, as follows:

Manny Aybar (P) - Add 2 years, now 29.

34. Mike Emeigh

Posted: February 27, 2002 at 01:31 AM (#554830)

Already sent this to Dan (hate to waste a comment), but:

Dave Littlefield, in his weekly column on the Pirates' Web site, notes that "prospect" P Wilson Guzman is 28 and not 24.

-- MWE

35. Dan Szymborski

Posted: February 27, 2002 at 04:08 AM (#554831)

Me was falling a week behind in reading e-mail.

36. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 02, 2002 at 03:19 PM (#554833)

More updates, courtesy of rotoworld.

Three from the Orioles:

37. Repoz

Posted: March 02, 2002 at 03:52 PM (#554834)

Wow....Now my Minor League/Rookie Cards are worth even less.

Is Wilmy Caceres the Bizarro World counterpart of Jack Benny?

38. Shredder Posted: March 02, 2002 at 05:46 PM (#554835)

And Wilny Caceras bolts into the sweepstakes lead!!

So really, the Angels got two years younger. Well done Mr. Stoneman.

39. Shredder Posted: March 02, 2002 at 08:43 PM (#554836)

That should read "Wilmy" Caceras. Sorry.

40. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 03, 2002 at 04:06 AM (#554841)

For my money, Wilken Ruan might be the funniest comments in the new BP.

"How tough is a scout's job? Imagine trying to assess a player's potential on the basis of a single game. Then again, you could get a full whiff of Eau de Ruan on just one play at last year's Futures Game. He lunged at a pitch well off the plate, dinked it into right field, foolishly tried stretching it into a double, was thrown out, and fractured his ring finger with a head-first slide. Ruan does play a mean center field, though."

41. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 03, 2002 at 04:54 PM (#554842)

Sort of sad. Found out that the Rangers released Agramonte. Not that he didn't deserve it or anything, but still unfortunate.

42. Greg Franklin Posted: March 12, 2002 at 09:33 PM (#554844)

Ryan Jones was off by just 29 years on the Julio Franco guess.

43. RJ in TO Posted: March 12, 2002 at 09:53 PM (#554845)

It was a reasonable guess. Besides, with the way the Braves 1B look, Franco may still be there when he's 73.

44. MattB Posted: March 12, 2002 at 10:14 PM (#554846)

So, at what point does it just become easier to list the Latin-born players whose age HASN'T changes.

45. MattB Posted: March 12, 2002 at 10:23 PM (#554847)

er, that's "changed".

46. MM1f Posted: May 27, 2003 at 04:53 AM (#554848)

This isn't really baseball related or anything but I'm curious...

47. User unknown in local recipient table (Craig B) Posted: May 27, 2003 at 05:52 AM (#554849)

Rob Ruck's Tropic of Baseball is a good introduction to this.

Essentially, the Dutch and (particularly) English names are usually the names of immigrants from other parts of the Caribbean, who came to the Dominican to work in the cane industry. Baseball initially found a very fertile niche in the Dominican amongst those same workers... who were already experienced in cricket.

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