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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Braves - DLed Chipper

Atlanta Braves - Placed 3B Chipper Jones on the 15-day DL; recalled 3B Andy Marte.

This will probably be Marte’s early cup of Joe, not his permanent addition to the 25-man roster.  This could change, however, depending on the seriousness of Chipper’s foot; if he’s only going to miss a couple of weeks, Betemit will get the starts, but if he needs surgery, which could result in him missing a couple of months, the Braves will probably use the opportunity to give Marte more of a look as the starting 3B.  Luckily for Marte, a prospect like him is good enough that he can survive a weak first 50 MLB at-bats.

2005 ZiPS Projection - Andy Marte
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05* 194 18   50 14 1   8 31 23 42   0 .258 .336 .464
Rest ‘05   299 37   78 18 1 12 44 37 71   3 .261 .346 .448

* - Includes MLEs

Dan Szymborski Posted: June 07, 2005 at 12:32 AM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. zonk Posted: June 07, 2005 at 12:58 AM (#1385847)
Cross-posting from the dugout to a more appropriate place, but based on Dan's intro -- it seems the universal consensus is that Marte should play over Betemit.

.......
Why the disdain for Wilson Betemit?

I think Marte is a fine prospect, but overrated (I keep thinking K-Mart Scott Rolen).

The sample size is ludicrously small - but Betemit hitting 333/455/593, and maybe most impressively, 12 BBs and 9 K in 66 trips to the dish.

Marte has option years left - Betemit has to stick, so why not see if Betemit can play? Either to become a regular member somewhere in an admittedly crowded infield, or, as a trade bait?

It wasn't that long ago that Betemit was one of the top prospects in all of baseball -- BA's #8 in '02, 29 in 01, and 49 in 03.

I'm not saying that because I already ditched useful pieces like Antonio Perez, Felipe Lopez, and several other astute April waiver claims -- and have only Betemit left.
   2. Nobody ##### with DeJesus Posted: June 07, 2005 at 01:42 AM (#1386012)
Agreed. The Braves need to see what Betemit can do as a starter, if only to ascertain whether he can take over for Furcal next year.
   3. zonk Posted: June 07, 2005 at 01:49 AM (#1386028)
Does Betemit have any chance of a future at SS?

I was under the impression that the Braves had pretty much decided Betemit didn't have the range to play SS.... but I might be thinking of Kelly Johnson.
   4. Johnny Tuttle Posted: June 07, 2005 at 01:56 AM (#1386060)
Would this make Marte a more viable fantasy starter at 3B than is either MacPherson or Atkins?
   5. ChuckO Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:07 AM (#1386116)
On this evening's Braves game, the announcers said that Betemit will be getting games at 3B and SS as well. Judging from what has been said on the Braves game, I have come away with the impression that the Braves brass seem to believe that Betemit may have turned the corner and could be a viable major-leaguer.

They also said that surgery hasn't been ruled out for Chipper Jones. One has to wonder how long his career is going to be. He's 33 and he had injury problems last year. He's having injury problems this year as well. It doesn't look good.
   6. shoewizard Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:15 AM (#1386145)
Chipper talked about not wanting to go through the trials and tribulations of injury and rehab too much more. He did not enjoy last year at all. He spoke like a tire old man. So I traded him during the off season and held onto Glaus instead.

I don't think Chipper gives a rats ass about HOF and that stuff, so I would not be surprised to see him retire young.
   7. Old Matt Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:18 AM (#1386157)
So all three uber prospect third basemen have reaced the majors.
   8. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:19 AM (#1386163)
I like Betemit a lot more than most people but I think Marte's the better long-term bet and the more important player for the Braves to develop if they had to choose. It'd be handy for the Braves if Furcal went on a huge hot streak and they were able to grab something nice.
   9. Шĥy Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:23 AM (#1386183)
Remember when Braves fans said that Marte was as good as Wright? I do.
   10. zonk Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:25 AM (#1386192)
I'm trying to remember....

Once upon a time, Betemit, Johnson, and ???? were quite a SS troika of prospects, but I'm drawing a blank on the third - I might be thinking of Furcal, but somehow I thought all 3 were of the "offensive upside, but might not stick at SS" variety.
   11. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:52 AM (#1386273)
Betemit appears to have gained Bobby Cox's trust, so I don't think he's going to lose much playing time to Marte. Furcal's been banged up - I don't think he can really swing the bat right handed now. Expect some sort of rotation between 3B and SS, similar to the one that's been being used for LF and RF since Mondesi was released.

At the very least, this is going to be a very interesting year for us Braves fans. The question is if they can manage to win while undergoing a full-blown youth movement. On Friday, they had five rookies start the game - you might see more than that next time Davies starts. Giles, Andruw, Adam and the rest rookies - especially if Estrada has to miss a few games.
   12. zonk Posted: June 07, 2005 at 02:54 AM (#1386275)
I like Betemit a lot more than most people but I think Marte's the better long-term bet and the more important player for the Braves to develop if they had to choose. It'd be handy for the Braves if Furcal went on a huge hot streak and they were able to grab something nice.

Fair enough...

I do have to admit, Marte's minor league numbers look better than I had pre-supposed before checking - though bbcube seems to be missing the 04 Greenville numbers.

It's different scale of prospectdom, but I just remember thinking how stupid the Cubs were when they didn't give Julio Zuleta a legitimate look in the season between Grace's departure and Choi's missed opportunity/regression/whatever.

I didn't think Zuleta would amount to much - but if he had gotten 400 at-bats, he might have put together an empty 25 HR season; maybe enough to make worthy of middling prospect in a swap... rather than just fading to oblivion.

Marte is only 21, and this would be his first full season in AAA - the Braves have always done a wonderful job working in their kids even while contending, but it's not like he's tearing up AAA to the point of it being a waste of his time.

Minor quibble with an organization that's probably earned the benefit of the doubt on such transactions, but I guess I wouldn't have been so eager to gets Marte's service time clock ticking....
   13. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: June 07, 2005 at 03:01 AM (#1386304)
The thing is, Marte "earned" a roster spot in spring training, and the team sent him down anyway - because they wanted to wait. If not for the injuries, they'd probably have waited a bit longer. But the offense has been struggling, you've got a stud at AAA. And he's going to play sooner or later.

The Braves worry less about service time than a lot of organizations, anyway. I think their philosophy is something like "there's always more". Plus, the classy way they treat players makes it easier to find those veterans to fill the gaps.

(Example A: When Mondesi was released, everything the Braves said about him was positive. How hard he worked, how disappointed everyone was that it just hadn't worked out, etc. Think the next faded vet will remember that?)

Betemit will get plenty of at bats. I think Cox and company are starting to think of him as next year's shortstop. I hope so, since option B seems to be Tony Pena, Jr. Pena will make a fine coach one day, I think, but not a fine major league player.
   14. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 07, 2005 at 04:13 AM (#1386461)
Nobody does better than Bobby Cox at getting young players into the lineup and having them produce. Yeah, if you have talented players you can SAY it makes it easy to work youngsters into the fray. But it ain't.

Just ask anyone who has followed a Dusty Baker managed team. ;)
   15. Mike Devereaux: MVP Posted: June 07, 2005 at 05:03 PM (#1387202)
Along the lines of what Chuck said earlier, Bobby Cox mentioned last night that while he would make sure that Marte got a fair shot at showing what he can do while Chipper's out, he would continue to play Betemit regularly since Wilson has started to hit "almost out of nowhere".

I too am starting to think of Betemit as next year's starting SS for the Braves. He's looked good playing there - maybe not as good as Furcal has appeared for much of this year, but Betemit has made all the plays thus far.

The Braves are just shell-shocked at the moment. It's tough to get fired up about a chance to see the kids play when there's a good deal of despondence from the rest of the club. They just need to win a few games and things will get better.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of a move to shore up at least the bullpen after the draft is over.
   16. ChuckO Posted: June 07, 2005 at 07:08 PM (#1387838)
I find it hard to get excited by the Braves youth movement when they are being forced to play young guys who aren't really prospects. Ryan Langerhans has too many holes in his swing, and Kelly Johnson is either still getting accustomed to the majors or is overmatched. I fear the latter. Adam LaRoche is still young but he isn't looking good. He has that loop in his swing and opposing pitchers are now pounding him inside with fastballs that he can't get around on. The one really exciting young player is Kyle Davies. If he stays healthy, he's going to be a star.

As for Betemit, I expect to see him at SS next year, and I expect him to do a good enough job. The Braves front office is again talking about their budget, which they're unwilling to break. Given their new cost-consciousness, I don't expect them to give Furcal the kind of money that he could get elsewhere.
   17. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: June 07, 2005 at 08:01 PM (#1388002)
I'd say that Langerhans and Johnson are both prospects. I'd also say that they're both 4th outfielder types. That's OK, sometimes one of those turns out to be an everyday player after all. And most 4th outfielders have at least one season of league-average play in them, I'd guess. (The trick would be to recognize when that one season occurs.)

In any case, I'm a lot more excited watching Langerhans, Johnson, LaRoche, and Brayan Pena than Jordan, Mondesi, Franco, and Eddie Perez.

And if this is the way the string of division titles ends, so be it. It's been a hell of a ride, and at least the future looks promising. I'd rather have the Braves roster, farm system, and budget than the Yankees right now.
   18. bunyon Posted: June 07, 2005 at 08:05 PM (#1388013)
And if this is the way the string of division titles ends, so be it. It's been a hell of a ride, and at least the future looks promising. I'd rather have the Braves roster, farm system, and budget than the Yankees right now.

I mostly agree. However, I'd take the Yanks budget (in which I include willingness to spend). The Braves aren't going to spend their money for the forseeable future.
   19. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: June 07, 2005 at 08:22 PM (#1388063)
Well, I was making the three a package deal. Obviously, taken separately, you want the Yanks budget. I just don't know if even they've got the budget to overcome their deficiencies in the other two departments.

Actually, they'd probably be OK if George was willing to punt 2005 and 2006. But that won't happen.
   20. VG Posted: June 07, 2005 at 09:58 PM (#1388302)
service time clock ticking

As a writer, I'm not sure I like this phrase. My understanding is service time is simply measured in days on the major league roster, so, IOW, if a player gets 30 days on the roster in May it is no different than getting those same 30 days on the roster in August. In other words, the clock ticks for 30 days in either case, and then that's it. Is there something else that I'm missing, something that makes an earlier call-up more costly?

I know that an earlier call-up can allow a player to gain more service time in a single year because it may work out that way, that's just common sense. I guess my larger point is that I think this is a bad metaphor unless there is something about this that I'm not understanding.
   21. Honkie Kong Posted: June 07, 2005 at 10:55 PM (#1388387)
I think the Braves are going to be fine. Noone is running away with the division yet. We just need to get through this phase, where everything that can go wrong has gone wrong. Its a long season, soon we will start getting the breaks.

erstad is MF-ing dick...someone needs to drill some sense into his frickin football ass! and not the Mike Piazza kind!
   22. Rodder Posted: June 08, 2005 at 12:00 AM (#1388528)
Absolutely! Erstad should have stopped short of homeplate, allowed Estrada to tag him, and thanked Estrada with a hug and a kiss.
Seriously, if that was Marcus Giles doing the exact same thing to one of the Molina boys, I suspect you wouldn't be nearly as angry.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: June 08, 2005 at 02:43 AM (#1389210)
One has to wonder how long his (Chipper's) career is going to be.

Generally, 3B don't last very long. Maybe it's a curse. Maybe it's a lot harder on the body than we realize. Chipper's had only 1100 games there, but I think I'd move him to 1B soon if I were the Braves.

33 was Brett's last year at 3B. Santo was done after 33. Mathews' last full year at 3B was 34 and he was done after 35. Brooks lasted forever, but he had only one good hitting season after 34. Plenty of guys aged well (Schmidt, Boggs, Brett as a hitter) so it's not a death sentence.

The curse will get AROD eventually unless he moves soon.
   24. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: June 08, 2005 at 02:50 AM (#1389224)
I expect Chipper to be at 1B next season, when Marte takes over 3B permanently. LaRoche then becomes a lovely trading chit this offseason - a decent and cheap young player who looks nice swinging the bat. He'll never be a star, but I think he'll be in demand.

If Chipper's out for the year, as is now being rumored, he may have played his last game at third. If he can hit like he did the second half of last year, and in between injuries this year, he'll still be plenty valuable at first base.

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