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I don't get why Dan is so against signing Terry Mulholland. It's a one-year deal, doubtless for less than a million, for the guy to basically be a player-coach and soak up a few innings when Jason Bere gets knocked out in the 2nd inning. It's Dolan's money, after all, and the Indians' top three lefty SP prospects could all use a bit more seasoning in Buffalo.
Ditto all of the above for Burba. I would rather the Indians had signed either Anderson or Bere (but not both), but again, they each only got a 1 year deal. What's the harm?
Anyone else feeling a little relieved by Shapiro's signings this offseason (the 4 pitchers mentioned above, plus minor deals for Jose Santiago, Jack Cressend, and Casey Blake) compared to last year? Multi-year deals for Ricky Gutierrez, Mark Wohlers, Matt Lawton, and Bob Wickman. Yuck. Maybe 3 of those 4 guys getting majorly injured was the best thing that could happen to Shapiro in that he immediately saw the insanity of multi-year deals for veteran players.
As for 3rd, I guess it kind of depends on Gutierrez's recovery from the neck surgery. I think the best outcome would be for Blake to be the starter. On a related note, does anybody know if Rule V pick Travis Chapman was actually sent to Detroit?
R-Rod will be in the rotation to start the season. I'd stay away from him in a fantasy league though. I expect Lee and Traber to start at Buffalo, with Tallet getting the last rotation slot.
About McDougall -- Mulholland was NOT ON THE 40-MAN ROSTER during the Rule V draft. If you want to blame somebody's presence for the loss of McDougall (and Luna and White and Thompson), blame Jose Santiago or Jack Cressend or Chad Paronto. I think the odds are pretty good that McDougall will be returned at some point this season anyway. And if he isn't, well... I'll admit I would rather have protected him than Santiago, but given the number of other really fantastic moves Shapiro has made, I'm willing to forgive him this one.
Look, I'm sure that if/when Shapiro decides Lee or Traber is ready to start in the majors, he's not going to let the presence of Mulholland get in his way. You can put him on waivers, hide him on the DL, maybe convince the Cubs or Brewers they need his services. I really don't see a downside to this move.
Who are you then?
but I didn't blame Mulholland, I was pointing out that Mulholland _and his like_ can hurt the team without ever throwing a single hanging curve or hacking at a pitch 2 feet outside the strike zone. I was arguing with your general "Eh, it isn't that bad" defense. Steven Weick over in the newsgroup pulls that all the time when he's defending Gutirrez.
Do you post in the newsgroup too? Actually, Weick is kind of schizophrenic about this -- he was blasting the Bere signing, saying how it would take away from development time for our young pitchers, while he lets the Gutierrez signing and Chris Magruder's continued presence slide.
The downside is that we have to play with a 24 man roster for however long it takes for Shapiro to realize Mulholland is just as much of a waste as he appears to be. Not the end of the world, but he's certainly worse than the 41st best player in the organization.
Something to keep in mind, aside from the fact that Lee, Tallet, and Traber average only 8 AAA starts apiece, is that if we leave any of them in Buffalo all year we keep an option year. I believe the arbitration clock has already started for Lee and Tallet, however.
I just think that letting any (or all) of these guys throw every fifth day in Buffalo is not the end of the world, and Mulholland is still a useful guy to have around. As are Burba and Anderson. Bere, on the other hand...
McDougall has a whole season of AA, is a pretty decent hitter, and can play every position in the infield. For a team that has a pretty solid infield already, they should have no problem carrying a decent utility infielder. McDougall is probably a better player than Bill Selby today.
Sure. But Casey Blake will probably be getting that roster spot instead, and he's better than either of them while being just as cheap as McDougall. Of course, McDougall should still be in AA so that's kind of beside the point.
Shane Spencer is a pretty useful player, but not to this team. Every at bat he gets should've gone to one of the bevy of mediocre OF/DH types that we have in the high minors.
All of whom are left-handed. Spencer was signed to provide a little righty power to the major league club this year. Just because the Indians have a lot of talent in the minors doesn't mean that they should all be pushed to the big league club. There's plenty of developing they can do in AA and AAA.
1. His 1998 campaign which may be the greatest of any late season call-up ever (and for one of history's great teams to boot).
2. A starring role in his very first playoff series.
3. Hitting into an unassisted triple play, the only one in the history of baseball in NYC.
4. Participating in one of the most famous defensive plays in post-season.
5. Playing for 4 pennant winners, 3 world series winners.
Whatever he does from here on out, he will have a lot to tell the grandkids.
Putting a line-up of nine rookie prospects on the field in Cleveland to get their butt's kicked every day probably wouldn't be beneficial to their development. So I don't object to signing some cheap vets to 1 year deals to help bridge the gap until the kids are truly ready to win at the major league level. So long as the vets take a back seat the day management determines the prospect is ready to play full-time.
Well, sure, but how many vets and what kids? Burks, Vizquel, Lawton, Spencer (who's "promised" 450 AB), Gutierrez, Bere, Anderson, Wickman, Mulholland, maybe Burba. Some of the "kids" include Karim Garcia (27), Bill Selby (32), Casey Blake (29), Ben Broussard (26), so obviously none of those guys need more minor-league experience. Then you have 2 real kids with lots of ML experience in Sabathia (22 with 2 years of ML experience) and Bradley (25 with parts of 3 years).
So that leaves only 2 spots for young guys looking to break in -- Phillips (22) at 2B and Bard (25) at C. It might be nice to find ABs for Escobar (still just 24 accoring to b-r) and Hafner (26), but I don't know how you do it with all those folks around. That's a long, long way from a line-up of 9 rookie prospects, too far IMHO. And worse yet, Phillips is out of position and Bard is not their long-term answer at C, so you gain little from breaking him in.
Just to be clear -- as of this moment, you're looking at the vast majority of LF, RF, DH ABs going to Spencer, Lawton, K Garcia, and Burks. Even at just 450-500 PA apiece, that soaks up pretty much all those PAs. That leaves nothing for Escobar while Hafner & Broussard split 1B. Both those guys will be 27 next year, supposedly in their prime, but they'll only have two half-seasons under their belts.
Spencer was a dumb signing.
Just to be clear -- as of this moment, you're looking at the vast majority of LF, RF, DH ABs going to Spencer, Lawton, K Garcia, and Burks. Even at just 450-500 PA apiece, that soaks up pretty much all those PAs. That leaves nothing for Escobar while Hafner & Broussard split 1B. Both those guys will be 27 next year, supposedly in their prime, but they'll only have two half-seasons under their belts.
Spencer was a dumb signing. He's taking ABs away from Hafner, Broussard, and Escobar.
1. Spencer is a good fielder. Granted, this is my subjective view as a Yankee fan. But it's a shared view among Yankee-watchers that he's been their best fielder (setting aside whether Juan Rivera proves to be good).
2. Spencer used to have a strong platoon split; he just mashed lefties. I think that wasn't the case so much in 2002 (sorry, no stats at my fingertips), but I do remember looking it up in the spring of 2002, and he'd had a big split his whole career before 2002.
So Spencer definitely is a valuable player within proper limits: platooning against lefties plus defensive value. And he generally compares favorably to most teams' backup OFs.
Of course, he appears to have signed with Cleveland for the precise reason that they were the team silly enough to indicate that he'd have a much broader role....
But this is the thread about Mulholland and Burba. I don't really have a problem with signings like them and Bere and Anderson (although all four seem a bit excessive). Guys like Cliff Lee, Traber, Tallet, Guthrie, Jason Davis, etc. could all use some success at AAA before being thown in the fire at the major league level. I believe the Indians are certainly in better shape (and have a better plan) on the pitching front than with their hitters.
Even so, I don't see Bard or McDonald blocking Phillips or Martinez once the "powers that be" decide they are ready.
Looking long term:
- Hafner and Brousard split 1B (and eventually DH when Burks moves on)
- I think Karim Garcia could finally realize his pontential and be an important part of the Indians revival (middle of the order hitter for the next 3 years.)
- 3B is a bit of a hole, but hopefully Corey Smith can cut down on his errors or Matt Whitney can come on quickly.
- CF belongs to Grady Sizemore in the long run, assuming Escobar doesn't rediscover his prospect gene.
- That leaves LF and SS post-Vizquel unclaimed. I'm sure the Indians can find somebody in their system (Peralta, Church, Luis Garcia) or fill the spot with a free agent when the time is right.
Shane Spencer: Indians fans have already made up their mind about him. He's a Yankee, and not welcome. If he hits poorly, he will be ridden mercilessly, and Shapiro will be loudly ridiculed for signing this guy. If he hits well, he MIGHT be accepted as "not as bad as I thought he was gonna be," to be quickly followed by "but the team still sucks, he'll be gone next year anyway, and what is Shapiro doing!?"
The Spencer signing probably pushes Broussard back to Buffalo, and I think he deserves a chance to prove he can't hit the majors, because he has nothing left to prove in the minors. If Broussard stunk and the team stunk, at least Shapiro would have his answer on the guy. If Broussard shone and the team stunk, fans could say "hey, this rookie is good; sure, the team loses, but we're on the right track."
The signings of Mulholland and Burba are the same. Best case: "not as bad as I said they would be." Probable case: "you see, they suck! The team sucks! We're going no where, I thought we were rebuilding! Hey, how about those Buckeyes, they're holding spring workouts..."
Shapiro should have spent this money on a 3B, instead of praying Gutierrez's neck heals and he can move him to another new (and non-shortstop) position.
Oh, and Brad Fullmer tested the market - ended up crawling back to his old team and signing for $1M, a quarter of what he made this year. I don't see anyone taking Ellis Burks and his $7M.
I can live with these signings, I guess. Indians have pitching futures, but not ready yet, and these guys aren't really blocking anyone (and won't be during season, if someone is ready for callup.) Unlike Shane Spencer signing (see other thread for comment.)
The biggest problem here is the PR. Indians fans are mostly sick of Burba, and laughing at Mulholland being older than the manager.
What polishing the future? Broussard is 27, he's in his prime, not with his future ahead of him. It's (past) time to find out what he can do.
And please remind me -- what is it exactly that Shane Spencer (career 768 OPS and 99 OPS+ for a corner OF) have done to earn a spot in the majors?
Also, from the AP story:
Spencer, who tore the anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee in July 2000, was never able to get 300 at-bats in a season with the New York Yankees.
Trimble said Spencer wants the opportunity to play every day.
``That was a requirement that he had for any team,'' Trimble said. ``Not that he be a starter, but that he have the opportunity to get 450 at-bats.''
Someone mentioned trading Lawton. Good luck. What's he got left, 3 years, $21 M? In this market?
Shane Spencer's a perfectly decent reserve OF who hits lefties pretty well. He might well be a nice fit on the right contending team (the A's maybe). Heck, he'd be at least a decent fit on pretty much any team except a rebuilding one with lots of corner players. The Indians strike me as about the worst possible fit for a guy like Spencer.
As to signing lousy vets in hopes they'll do something good and you can flip them for prospects later ... what's the point of this if you're not willing to play your prospects now? Do you really expect to get a better prospect than Ben Broussard for Shane Spencer? Isn't it just as likely that, if you played Broussard, he'd do something good and you could flip him for prospects if you want?
Their pitching signings I'm more understanding of (except Mulholland). Yes, relying on a starting rotation of Sabathia and 4 rookies (some of whom haven't hit AAA yet I think) is a bad idea. I'd ding those signings mainly because I think you'd be better off with guys like Helling, Suppan, or Valdes.
Barry, when Marshall says this is the year to pick the 2005 lineup, of course he doesn't mean call up Grady Sizemore today. He means don't block him by signing Karim Garcia (etc.) to a four year contract.
As for Lawton, I don't think they'd have too much trouble moving him. Lawton wouldn't hurt any contending team, he's a good all-around ballplayer.
He is not doing this right now. Spencer stealing ABs from Broussard does not do this. Shuttling Wendell Magee between Buffalo and Cleveland does not do this, especially if he takes the train instead of Jody Gerut, or Escobar, or Coco Crisp. Burying Brian Tallet, Cliff Lee, Alex Herrera behind Terry Mulholland does not do this.
And effectively releasing Earl Snyder does not do this. Shapiro should play Snyder at 3B for 30-40 games this year, and at least demonstrate that this guy he got in the Alomar trade has not worked out. If Snyder surprises and hits, play him 60. If he commits 18 errors, it might be cruel, but it only leaves 120 games for the rest of the 3B crew to play. Any attempt to reduce the number of starts by John McDonald, Max Alvis, Alvaro Espinosa, Rickey Gutierrez, etc, is welcome. Count backwards.
In any case, I was mighty surprised that he was called up. As Joe Ptak speculated on the CIR, this is probably just to reward him for working hard at Buffalo and give him a week or 10 days with the big club before Ricky Gutierrez is brought up. I thought they would just call up Gutierrez and stick him at SS; he's done pretty well at Buffalo in his rehab.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only position players currently with the Indians with more than 3 years in the majors are Matt Lawton and Tim Laker. That's pretty unbelievable. Shane Spencer too, I guess, but he's been MIA for about a week now.
If you mean by the Indians, then yes. They're pretty clearly focusing on minimizing Rule 5 losses already.
The other, less obvious, benefit is that it may move his clock back a year. He was up in mid-September of 2002, so he'll have to spend well over a month in Buffalo, and even then he may be a Super Two. It'd be no surprise if he stayed in Buffalo through the International League playoffs - you know, to help them win it - before being brought back up. Someone with his obvious talents and his track record of success shouldn't need to spend any more time in the minors after this two month excursion.
Then again, wasn't Wilson Betemit supposed to be the best ss/3b in the NL by now?
Brandon Phillips
"Ricardo has a legitimate injury," said Shapiro. "A second MRI revealed that there's something going on with his hip. He received a shot today and may need surgery on the hip somewhere down the road. But for now, the Rangers are going to treat it conservatively."
Rodriguez entered the season as the Indians' #2 starter (and top pitching prospect?). I guess the injuries and maybe the ineffectiveness have hurt his top prospect status.
Nobody really raves about Ludwick, though BP almost put him on their Top 40 Prospect list this year. The Oracle says he's ready now, but Shapiro says he will not play regularly. I think they should give him Coco Crisp's playing time. Crisp sure isn't doing much with it (.252/.306/.341 in 135 ABs) and we need the power. Jody Gerut is the only Indian slugging over .500, though Bradley is close.
Or, to put it more bluntly, Spencer would have to have a single good year before we can expect another 4 or 5 ones. Even having his best season since 2000, he doesn't hit enough to have any real value. Spencer's only real value is that of a spot-starter behind a lefty with a bad platoon split, but guys like that appear on the waiver-wire.
I am not a fan of Rodriguez's at all. I see him as a #5 starter or bullpen arm. I wouldn't expect great things out of him - about 1/100 of pitchign prospects like Rodriguez have Runelvys Hernandez run of success, so who knows, but I'll put it this way, I wouldn't trade for him.
There's nothing that says the team couldn't sign more than one of that bunch. It's not like the system's exactly choked with infield prospects right now.
Magruder especially would be a good 4th outfielder, I think. He's a switch hitter, average to slightly-above-average defensively, and he put up a 328/391/474 over 137 ABs while rehabbing in Buffalo this year. And he's 26. If I were him I'd refuse the assignment to Buffalo since in Cleveland he's buried behind Lawton, Bradley, Gerut, Escobar, Crisp, and Sizemore (did I forget anybody?) and hope to catch on with the Braves or Cubs or some other good team with a weak outfield bench. Worst comes to worst, he'll be back in AAA next year with a different organization, no worse off than he is now.
What's that? A typo? Nver hrd if thst!
"Brad Fullmer, who underwent season-ending knee surgery in July, has been released by the Anaheim Angels."
How exactly is it a paper move? Is he no really a FA?
Maybe he couldn't deal with Bowa.
Now...call the Yankees, and offer them Ryan Church as an OFer for Columbus with possible MLB future (they're a little thin there, he'd be better than Marcus Thames, etc.). Agree to take Jon Lieber off their hands, they obviously don't have a rotation spot for him...
I may be wrong, but eventually the MLB Player's Union releases the salaries of all its members. I'm sure Belliard's salary isn't some big secret - just nobody has cared enough to find out what it is yet.
He'll make an estimated $1 million plus incentives, but he'll have to do something exceptional to hold the position past 2004.
"He" is Ron Belliard.
The Browns don't need a quarterback. Tim Couch is an above average passer and would be acceptable on a good team. But both Couch and Holcomb have been getting splattered all year (Couch his whole career) by defenses. Look at the Steelers game earlier this year on Sunday night - Couch was not getting a pass rush and absolutely destroyed the Steelers.
The Browns biggest needs are about three solid offensive linemen and both safety positions. My prediction is that you'll see Tim Couch restructure his contract and be named the full time starter next season. Holcomb will be the backup. Also, Robert Griffith is sure to be cut - there's no excuse for this defense to give up so many big runs so consistently.
As it stands right now, the Browns will have the fifth pick of the draft. With it, I'd imagine they'd take Shawn Andrews from Arkansas or Robert Gallery from Iowa. In the second round, they'd likely get a safety such as Brandon Everage from Oklahoma or Stuart Schweigert from Purdue. In the third round, they should take Chris Snee of Boston College or David Baas of Michigan (assuming either one is still on the board).
Really, they're top priority should be signing me to be the General Manager.
Anyways...
I would love Gallery to be the pick as well as LT is our biggest need on the line IMO. Faine looks like he'll be good at C, but the rest of the line is "replacement level."
I don't think Rivers will be a great pro. I've only seen him once (vs. Ohio State this year) and it appeared to me that his throwing motion is too funky to translate well in the pros. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like he delivers the ball really low. He could prove me wrong though.
I too think Rothliesberger will be the best pro QB, but I also have a sneaky suspicion that Navarre will turn out pretty good too. Manning - I'm not sold on him at all. Isn't JP Losman supposed to be good? Have never seen him play.
Statistical performance doesn't translate so well from college to the pros in football - the system and conference a guy plays in can make or break his stats.
I think Suggs is a good one and I'm starting to doubt that William Green will ever play in the NFL again. He's talented, but his head has never been on straight.
The interesting thing is that since Josh McCown played fairly well for the Cardinals down the stretch, they may not go for a QB. If they don't it *might* allow Gallery to slip to the Browns. I imagine Andrews will already be gone as he's rated as the best T in college football by most sites. Not sure when the Browns will be picking (7th? 9th?) but Sean Taylor (S - Miami) would be an interesting choice too.
1. San Diego 4-12...0.504
Larry Fitzgerald is un-freakin'-believable.
ZIPS really has Cliff Lee posting a 4.80 ERA? Wow.
They might be thinking of Izturis as a replacement for Cabrera after '04, which would be a pretty impressive downgrade.
He threw a no-hitter.
Wohlers is sitting out the season for personal reasons.
Willy Tavares is speedy, but that's about all. And Luke Scott is pretty old for a prospect, especially one who has been plying his trade in the low minors.
Still, as an Astros fan, I'm not upset about shedding Robertson. We'd be in fairly bad shape if he was needed to toe the rubber for us as a starter this season.
Houston apparently liked Tavares this spring. He did show some OBP skills in the minors, no? I think he is the current heir apparent to CF; also he is supposed to be really good defensively and of course can run, which comes in very handy in CF at MMPUS.
Don't know much about the other guy.
Also, I wonder if some team will be able to steal Carlos Hernandez away from the Astros this season.
One never knows, but I feel pretty confident saying this is really far-fetched. Now Saarloos, you can probably get, with a good package.
Well, it's already been tried. (See 2000, 2001.) And you are right, it did not work.
This trade is kind of a non-starter. I imagine Robertson will throw a couple of hundred replacement level innings for the Indians over the next few years and Taveras might end up a 4th outfielder.
He's fast and can take a walk, but he's got Tyner-level power problems, and the eye to discern ball from strike isn't important when every pitch is grooved because you hit like a girl. Taveras had an ISO of .070 last season. Which, astoundingly, is actually worse than the .090 he put up in low-A. Centerfielder of the future is probably going a bit far.
HAHAHAHAHA.
He's probably going to clear waivers, though.
I like Merloni, I'm happy he made the team, but I'm totally confused by the way Wedge has used him.
White's 35 and didn't pitch that well last year, but what the hell, it's worth a shot. Players like Dyson are a dime a dozen.
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