BBTF's Transaction Oracle Discussion :: Drays

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Monday, July 11, 2005

Drays - Signed Borowski

Tampa Bay Devil Rays - Signed P Joe Borowski.

Terrific little signing by the Rays here. The Devil Rays do manage to do this at times but generally, don’t take as much advantage as they should. This is a team, after all, that only has Jorge Cantu and Jonny Gomes contributing because of two bad, old players retiring suddenly and a third player not playing just slightly better defense.

If Borowski can pitch well, the Rays could trade All-Star Closer© Danys Baez without blinking an eye as the rumors say. The worry is that they just stand and do nothing and then stand there looking stupid later on when Baez wants to get paid more.

2005 ZiPS Projection - Joe Borowski
—————————————————————————————-
Period W L G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA
—————————————————————————————-
Actual ‘05 0 0 11 0 11 12 8 5 1 11 6.55
Rest ‘05 1 1 25 0 28 26 13 3 9 24 4.18
—————————————————————————————-
Total ‘05 1 1 36 0 39 38 21 8 10 35 4.85

Dan Szymborski Posted: July 11, 2005 at 10:05 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Meatwads stronger now, ready for the house Posted: July 11, 2005 at 10:28 PM (#1464684)

good for joe, i admire him in the fact he went to the mexican league to try to get back into tthe majors and he never made excuses

2. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: July 11, 2005 at 10:35 PM (#1464700)

I'm glad he caught on somewhere else and I hope he stays healthy and prospers in Tampa Bay (at least as much as that's possible).

Nice story and seems like a nice guy. He just got squeezed out this year by the influx of interchangeable younger parts. The broken bone in ST spelled the end of his Cub career.

3. Cabbage Posted: July 11, 2005 at 10:50 PM (#1464726)

Since I don't have a TV right now, I wasn't able to see Joe when he pitched. In his good days, he would start off an at-bat with a fastball or two and then throw sliders the rest of the way. He was very good at getting his slider to stick on the bottom corner of the strike zone (especially going back door to lefties). Was his problem that the decrease in velocity prevented the first pitch fastball from being pulled into the seats, or was it more of a breaking pitch location? Were the pitches simply too slow to be effective?

4. Fred Garvin is dead and Joe Biden is alive Posted: July 11, 2005 at 11:00 PM (#1464740)

The broken bone in ST spelled the end of his Cub career.

Well, that and the fact that he hasn't been able to find the low 90s on his fastball since the spring of '04. Still, I wish him well.

5. Andere Richtingen

Posted: July 11, 2005 at 11:26 PM (#1464791)

Was his problem that the decrease in velocity prevented the first pitch fastball from being pulled into the seats, or was it more of a breaking pitch location? Were the pitches simply too slow to be effective?

It seemed to me that a loss of location came with the loss of velocity. Last year, he was giving up walks along with the bombs. This year he seemed to get the walks under control but he gave up 5 bombs in 11 IP. When Borowski was good, I never understood why he wasn't giving up more hard hit balls. Now he's giving them up. But still: 1 BB and 11 K in 11 IP -- he may manage to come back. At this point I'm not so sure he's worse than Mike Remlinger.

Overall, he's a player I liked a lot. In two straight years the Cubs only gave him a job out of desperation, and both times he did a great job. They finally gave him the closer's job, but he was hurt and hasn't been the same since.

6. Fred Garvin is dead and Joe Biden is alive Posted: July 11, 2005 at 11:35 PM (#1464805)

Overall, he's a player I liked a lot. In two straight years the Cubs only gave him a job out of desperation, and both times he did a great job. They finally gave him the closer's job, but he was hurt and hasn't been the same since.

What I like about him is that they grabbed him off the scrap heap with their big-name closer failed miserably, then when he got hurt, cast their lot on another big-name reliever who failed miserably.

7. NTNgod Posted: July 11, 2005 at 11:46 PM (#1464828)

Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon.

8. Will B. Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:03 AM (#1464876)

Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon.

This would be a very bad move. Quentin is arguably better than Baez right now. The Diamondbacks bullpen is a total disaster, but Baez and his 28/20 K/BB ratio doesn't scream "the answer" either.

9. Mikαεl Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:30 AM (#1465015)

Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon.

Anyone seen levski around? Just pin his arms, try to keep him from swallowing his tongue.

10. H. Vaughn Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:32 AM (#1465027)

The Cubs could take a lesson from this transaction and learn to cash in their scrapheap relievers at peak value, as they did with the Worrell-Mueller swap. Yes, I'm looking at you, Dempster.

11. MM1f Posted: July 12, 2005 at 04:29 AM (#1465612)

"Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon."

Oh my God....wow, not that Tampa really needs OFs but but regardless thats a huge ripoff job by LaMar. He does good sometimes

12. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: July 12, 2005 at 05:19 AM (#1465647)

The Cubs could take a lesson from this transaction and learn to cash in their scrapheap relievers at peak value, as they did with the Worrell-Mueller swap. Yes, I'm looking at you, Dempster.

Dempster's still only 28, and he wouldn't be the first guy who failed as a starter to find success in the bullpen. I think the one-inning stints really help minimize his weakness (control) -- he doesn't have to worry about mixing in 3-4 pitches during a game, and he doesn't have to worry about saving himself for a long outing.

A lot of people thought he could be successful in the bullpen (and not just on BTF) -- FWIW, Gammons in the preseason said he thought Dempster could save 40 games if given the chance, and Hendry pushed Dempster as closer even before that.

He may yet collapse, but I haven't seen any signs of it yet. He's unfazed when he gets into trouble, he throws strikes, and he gets a lot of ground balls. I've been impressed so far.

13. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 12, 2005 at 05:26 AM (#1465652)

Nuts. I wanted the Sox to sign him.

14. Gern Blanston Posted: July 12, 2005 at 12:59 PM (#1465915)

Quentin for Baez? Good lord. That would be a terrible move for the DBacks even if they were legitimate contenders.

15. Neutral Milk Dotel (Dan Lee) Posted: July 12, 2005 at 01:04 PM (#1465917)

Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon.

I really hope Mark Shapiro's on the phone with Joe Jr. right now, trying to sell him on the virtues of Bob Wickman.

16. Calvin Schiraldi Posted: July 12, 2005 at 01:15 PM (#1465926)

Dempster's more in line with what Jason Isringhausen has become than what Borowski became.

And as somebody who really wanted to see Joe do well, he has nothing left. Nothing. Even the outs he got were bombs. His strikeout to walk ratio was good this year, and that's about all you can say that's positive.

17. Andere Richtingen

Posted: July 12, 2005 at 01:26 PM (#1465936)

Dempster's more in line with what Jason Isringhausen has become than what Borowski became.

Well, Isringhausen developed good control after becoming a closer. In Dempster's case, he's definitely reduced his walk rate since making the changeover...

I still have my doubts and I'm reserving judgment until I see him pull it off over a full season.

18. Calvin Schiraldi Posted: July 12, 2005 at 01:32 PM (#1465942)

I thought his control would be his undoing as a closer, and admittedly, it still could. That's why I've been so impressed by his transition to the bullpen. Plus, he genuinely seems to enjoy pitching in that role, something that has taken some very good pitchers (I'm looking at you LaTroy) and turned them to goo on the mound.

19. Dingbat_Charlie

Posted: July 12, 2005 at 04:38 PM (#1466327)

Jorge Julio for Quentin!

then Quentin to RF!

then Sammy to the bench! (or AZ, if they want him)

20. N2 Posted: July 12, 2005 at 06:10 PM (#1466577)

I'd think Joe could find better Mexican League teams to play for than Tampa Bay.

21. Robert S. Posted: July 13, 2005 at 06:24 AM (#1468332)

Arizona is reportedly giving serious thought to Tampa's offer of Baez for Quentin, so Borowski might find himself a closer again very soon.

Link?

Arizona's pen is NOT their problem, particularly the back end.

22. Rudy Pemberton Posted: July 13, 2005 at 04:20 PM (#1468909)

Can someone explain why this is a terrific signing? I mean, people here say that signing Bautista and Alomar was dumb because they were washed up vets blocking young guys....last time I checked Borowski appeared to be a washed up old guy too.

23. Didi Dodo Doodoo (1k5v3L)

Posted: July 13, 2005 at 04:29 PM (#1468945)

Anyone seen levski around? Just pin his arms, try to keep him from swallowing his tongue.

Good lord, how did I miss this thread?!

A while back, there was a rumor of Quentin going to TOR for Batista. That made me laugh. Now there is this rumor; it really started with a couple of blurbs in the Tampa papers that TAM scouts were in Tucson. So rotoworld mentioned that TAM would most likely ask for one of Quentin, Jackson and Santos.

And all hell broke loose. Of course, right around that time, AZ moved Quentin from RF to CF, so the speculation went that AZ was showcasing Quentin to TAM. Of course, it couldn't have been because AZ has Shawn Green in RF for the next two years, Cruz is a free agent, and Terrero is a 4th OF type.

Give it a rest. Anyhow, this morning rotoworld is reporting:

Closer Danys Baez is at the center of trade discussions with the Marlins, Braves, Cubs and Rangers.

The fact that Tampa picked up Joe Borowski is adding fuel to the fire, so stay tuned. Jul. 13 - 8:30 am et
Source: Miami Herald

Those teams are actual "contenders", so one of them is bound to overpay for Baez. Quentin's destination is only one: the BOB.

24. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: July 13, 2005 at 04:34 PM (#1468958)

Closer Danys Baez is at the center of trade discussions with the Marlins, Braves, Cubs and Rangers.

Please, please don't let the Cubs be part of this. Dempster has been fine - great, really. There's no reason at all to kick him out of the closer's spot for a guy like Baez.

25. Didi Dodo Doodoo (1k5v3L)

Posted: July 13, 2005 at 05:27 PM (#1469101)

The Cubs really don't have a need for another closer.

26. Moses Taylor peacocks peacock Posted: July 13, 2005 at 05:33 PM (#1469120)

And as somebody who really wanted to see Joe do well, he has nothing left. Nothing. Even the outs he got were bombs. His strikeout to walk ratio was good this year, and that's about all you can say that's positive.

Agreed. Watching him pitch it's obvious he's toast. IIRC, he hasn't hit 90 yet. This is only a good move for TB if it makes them more comfortable to trade Baez. They're not going to get any actual value out of JoeBo though.

It is sad to see, as I also liked him (seems like every Cubs fans on this thread is obligated to say that).

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Monday, July 11, 2005

Drays - Signed Borowski

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