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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Sunday, July 31, 2005

Giants - Acquired Winn

San Francisco Giants - Acquired OF Randy Winn from the Seattle Mariners for C Yorvit Torrealba and P Jesse Foppert

I tell you, my masculine areas are all aquiver with this year’s deadline deals.  If we get a Tike Redman-Eric Bruntlett or Robert Eenhoorn-Randy Knorr blockbuster, I might have to take a cold shower.

For the Giants, this is a stupid yet irrelevant trade.  Neither Foppert or Torrealba were likely to succeed with the Giants, the latter due to arm problems and walks and the latter due to all-glove, no-hit Matheny (who oddly enough decided to be all-hit, no-glove this year).  In return, the Giants get a good defensive outfielder who hits a bit (and underrated due to park), something which the Giants could use but is about #45 on their needs list.  This team is done, however, and they need to be acquiring Fopperts and Torrealbas for Winns, not tother way round.

Good move for the Mariners, though.  They’ve gotten nothing out of catcher this year and Torrealba is usable, though he’s been wretched in limited time this year.  Anything can happen with a youngish pitcher, so he’s worth a shot on a team that at least has admitted that their season is over.

2005 ZiPS Projection - Yorvit Torrealba
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05 93 18   21   8 0   1   7   9 25   1 .226 .301 .344
Rest ‘05   56   7   12   3 0   1   5   5 11   0 .214 .290 .321
——————————————————————————————————
Total ‘05 149 25   33 11 0   2 12 14 36   1 .221 .297 .321

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Randy Winn
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05 386 46 106 25 1   6 37 37 53 12 .275 .342 .391
Rest ‘05   201 31   61 13 1   3 27 18 30   6 .303 .367 .423
——————————————————————————————————
Total ‘05 587 77 167 38 2   9 64 55 83 18 .284 .350 .402

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Jesse Foppert
——————————————————————————————
Period     W   L   G GS   IP   H   ER HR BB SO   ERA
——————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05*  2   2 13 11   54   54   32   8 44 44 5.30
Rest ‘05     1   2   7   6   31   29   20   5 21 27 5.81
——————————————————————————————
* - Includes MLE

Dan Szymborski Posted: July 31, 2005 at 04:26 PM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. cardsfanboy Posted: July 31, 2005 at 04:48 PM (#1512614)
isn't Ironic(in an Alanis Morissette way) that a guy named Winn has only once been on a winning team?
   2. cardsfanboy Posted: July 31, 2005 at 04:50 PM (#1512619)
Best news about this trade? It wasn't the Cardinals getting Winn.
   3. shoewizard Posted: July 31, 2005 at 05:03 PM (#1512634)
Like you said Dan, Floppert and Terriblealba are no big losses. But I can't for the life of me figure out why they think they need Winn, unless they figure they are still in the race for the NL West, which they just might.
   4. Santanaland Diaries Posted: July 31, 2005 at 05:58 PM (#1512785)
This trade upsets me. I was hoping Foppert could turn it around and have a long major league career, just so I could have the pleasure of mocking him for having one of the most inept swings I've ever seen. Now, even if he gets back to the majors, he's in the AL. Grr.
   5. Jose Clutch (Replacement Level Poster) Posted: July 31, 2005 at 06:02 PM (#1512796)
Quick. Everyone snatch up guys who can play CF, then offer them to the Yankees for $100 million.

I'm planning to call Brian Cashman later today myself, I'm still reading up on how to throw a changeup.
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2005 at 06:33 PM (#1512924)
That's the first time I've seen "Randy Winn" and "good defensive outfielder" in the same paragraph on this site.

I take it he is to play center in San Fran?
   7. Foster Posted: July 31, 2005 at 06:34 PM (#1512930)
The Giants OF seems pretty crowded as it is. Not that Ellison, Grissom, & Tucker are any good.
   8. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: July 31, 2005 at 08:47 PM (#1513596)
This team is done, however, and they need to be acquiring Fopperts and Torrealbas for Winns, not tother way round.

Well said.

Winn's a good defender for LF, but he's a stretch in CF. He's a current incarnation of Stan Javier: excellent 4th outfielder, but not quite enough bat to be an everyday corner and not quite enough glove to be an everyday centerfielder.

I'm okay with this move, so long as it's followed by the trade of Alfonzo to create a spot at third for Feliz, where he can be a minor asset.
   9. Steve Treder Posted: July 31, 2005 at 09:17 PM (#1513780)
This team is done, however, and they need to be acquiring Fopperts and Torrealbas for Winns, not tother way round.

Well said.


Emphatically.

We're on a slow treadmill to nowhere ...
   10. fables of the deconstruction Posted: July 31, 2005 at 09:23 PM (#1513810)
We're on a slow treadmill to nowhere ...

Steve,

Would that be the "Downward Spiral", "Highway to Hell" or "I've fallen into the abyss and can't even scramble to my knees"? ;) ...

--------
trevise
   11. Dirty Tom Rackham Posted: August 01, 2005 at 02:14 AM (#1514178)
It's amazing that all the Giants have to show for Jerome Williams, Jesse Foppert and Kurt Ainsworth are Randy Winn and Latroy Hawkins.
   12. SouthSideRyan Posted: August 01, 2005 at 02:21 AM (#1514193)
Aardsma, not Ainsworth. Ainsworth went in the Ponson deal.
   13. Steve Treder Posted: August 01, 2005 at 06:09 AM (#1514590)
Aardsma, not Ainsworth. Ainsworth went in the Ponson deal.

And Ainsworth has apparently vanished into nothingness, which, of couse, Aardsma, Williams, and Foppert may very well all do as well. Young pitchers do so with maddening regularity.

But some don't, and the willingness of the Giants to cast them aside is unnerving, to say the least.
   14. dr. scott Posted: August 01, 2005 at 03:57 PM (#1515027)
Hey dont forget Boof Bosner! We got AJ for that, and got rid of that stiff Nathan.
   15. 1k5v3L Posted: August 01, 2005 at 04:05 PM (#1515036)
That Ponson trade ended up a bust for BAL and SF. I don't think Hannaman is up to anything, and Moss and Ainsworth are gone. I'm reading mixed reports on Foppert; it appears his mechanics are really screwed up. So maybe losing him wasn't a big whoop. In the end, the deal that Sabean really fked up with the AJ swap. Nathan, Boof, and Liriano? Sweet Moses. I am curious if SF could use McCracken in the outfield...
   16. Steve Treder Posted: August 01, 2005 at 04:09 PM (#1515040)
That Ponson trade ended up a bust for BAL and SF.

Not entirely. Ponson pitched reasonably well in his brief stint with the Giants.
   17. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: August 01, 2005 at 04:09 PM (#1515042)
And Ainsworth has apparently vanished into nothingness, which, of couse, Aardsma, Williams, and Foppert may very well all do as well. Young pitchers do so with maddening regularity.

True, but Williams is already in the Cubs' rotation and doing ok: 40IP, 36h, 16bb, 25K, 3.83ERA. So, still too many walks, and not a great K rate. He's still working himself into shape, but there are moments when you see it coming together (whatever that means).

Aardsma will probably get a shot at a bullpen job next season, as he's been pretty good in the Cubs' system so far (but still, not a guaranteed thing). And by the Cubs getting those 2 wins off LaTroy, they may have already won the trade in their mind.
   18. Mefisto Posted: August 01, 2005 at 04:23 PM (#1515070)
And Ainsworth has apparently vanished into nothingness, which, of couse, Aardsma, Williams, and Foppert may very well all do as well. Young pitchers do so with maddening regularity.

But some don't, and the willingness of the Giants to cast them aside is unnerving, to say the least.


Young pitchers are high risk/high reward commodities. Sabean has gotten the benefit from selling all of them, but one of these days one of them will succeed and the Giants will lose a big payoff.

Branch Rickey always said that quality came from quantity. Sabean either doesn't believe that or thinks he can tell the difference. We'll see. I think he's like a market timer in stocks -- he can be lucky for a while, but it's a bad strategy.
   19. Steve Treder Posted: August 01, 2005 at 04:33 PM (#1515103)
Branch Rickey always said that quality came from quantity.

He also said that luck is the residue of design. Bright fellow, that Rickey.

I'm reminded of Roger Kahn's description of the massive Dodger training facility in Vero Beach, Florida, in the early 1950s. Rickey was off to Pittsburgh by then, but the training complex was largely Rickey's handiwork. Kahn's major impression of it: pitcher's mounds, everywhere, pitcher's mounds.

The Dodger system of focusing on pitching would produce Drysdale and Koufax in the decade to come.
   20. Dirty Tom Rackham Posted: August 01, 2005 at 05:23 PM (#1515310)
Aardsma, not Ainsworth. Ainsworth went in the Ponson deal

I meant Ainsworth. He, Williams and Foppert were all top prospects in 2003 (Sickels had all three at A-) and now the Giants have practically nothing to show for them.
   21. Nuclear Dish Posted: August 02, 2005 at 04:42 PM (#1517112)
Not entirely. Ponson pitched reasonably well in his brief stint with the Giants.

Well, he went 3-6 for them down the stretch, although with good ERA and peripherals.

But my understanding is that the Giants weren't too pleased with him, especially his NLDS performance against FLA. Rumors abounded that they felt Ponson wasn't giving 100%. They were looking for a second ace to slot behind Schmidt, and they got what Baltimoreans have come to call their "pitcherpotamus".

I also heard that Baltimore's ability to trade Ponson and his contract this year were hampered by the Giants' displeasure with Ponson the last time around. Although the Pads eventually tried to make that move, many other potential suitors were scared off, not by his performance (or lack thereof), but rather by the idea that he's not a guy who puts it all on the line.
   22. Steve Treder Posted: August 02, 2005 at 04:50 PM (#1517125)
Well, he went 3-6 for them down the stretch, although with good ERA and peripherals.

Which was vastly more than what Moss and Ainsworth contributed during the same period.

But my understanding is that the Giants weren't too pleased with him, especially his NLDS performance against FLA. Rumors abounded that they felt Ponson wasn't giving 100%.

I missed those rumors. If they had any reason to be concerned about his performance going forward, it would reasonably be based more upon his weight than his performance in one NLDS start.

I also heard that Baltimore's ability to trade Ponson and his contract this year were hampered by the Giants' displeasure with Ponson the last time around.

You hear more interesting stuff than I do. Don't you think Baltimore's ability to trade Ponson and his contract this year has been hampered more by the $8.5 million per year size of the contract, his 5.30 2004 ERA, and his 5.80 2005 ERA, than by "the idea that he's not a guy who puts it all on the line"?
   23. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: August 02, 2005 at 04:51 PM (#1517128)
And by the Cubs getting those 2 wins off LaTroy, they may have already won the trade in their mind.

They already have won it in my mind, and in the mind of everyone else in aisle 413 at Wrigley Field.

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