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— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Wednesday, May 11, 2005

Giants - DLed Schmidt

San Francisco Giants - Placed P Jason Schmidt on the 15-day DL; recalled P Scott Munter.

This, they did not need.  Schmidt has pitched better than his ERA and was expected to be one of the players that could help hold the Giants together over the next month or two.  Brad Hennessey is being talked about as the eventual replacement for Schmidt, but if any more players go out with injuries, Felipe Alou’s going to be drinking Hennessy more than starting him.

Dan Szymborski Posted: May 11, 2005 at 01:16 PM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 02:38 PM (#1328498)
Felipe Alou needs to drink some strychnine along with some whiskey. He's an idiot for overworking an already injured Schmidt over the last four starts. It was obvious to everyone that Schmidt was having problems, as his control was off, his velocity was down, and he was getting hammered by hitters. But no, Alou kept strutting him out there and letting him throw 110+ pitches a game...
   2. The Artist Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:13 PM (#1328558)
#### Fuck ####### ##### See my post when Bonds was announced on the DL.

Levski, Schmidt didnt tell anyone. Alou is an idiot, but it wasn't so damn "obvious" as much as noting that Schmidy has had his wild periods in the past.

We now have 3 SP and 8 relievers up - nice move Sabean! Couldn't leave Hennessy up- wonderfucking full!
   3. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:18 PM (#1328563)
No worries, former artist,

This situation will be quickly remedied when the Giants trade Matt Cain and Merkin Valdez for Troy Percival.
   4. The Artist Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:24 PM (#1328575)


This situation will be quickly remedied when the Giants trade Matt Cain and Merkin Valdez for Troy Percival.

I think you're confusing our GM with yours Levski - Sabean's traded exactly 2 prospects in the last 10 years who have done anything- Keith Foulke, in the White Flag deal, and Joe Nathan.
   5. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:38 PM (#1328611)
No worries, Aadik, desperate times call for desperate measures, and Sabean will start freaking out pretty soon. Munter or Punter isn't the answer.
   6. Steve Treder Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:41 PM (#1328618)
Tim Kawakami in the Mercury this morning put it perfectly. He says, remember that scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the knight gets one arm chopped off, then the other arm, then a leg, and he's spurting blood all over the place, but keeps saying, "Come on back an' fight!"

That's the Giants right now. They are complete toast, but they seem to be the only ones who don't know it.
   7. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:41 PM (#1328619)
That's too bad.
   8. Josh Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:51 PM (#1328640)
So, after Hennessey, who are the internal options? Foppert and Williams have been pretty awful this year, and Cain is walking over 5 per 9 in AAA. I guess there is Brian Cooper, but we know what he is: 4 SO and 3 walks a game.

On their 25 as it is now, are their 5 guys who can start? I don't count more than 4, but I must be missing it.
   9. Dan Szymborski Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:52 PM (#1328641)
Well, almost. Scott Linebrink would look really nice in the bullpen right about now and Bobby Howry's been very good the years he's healthy. And Chris Singleton did have 2 good years.
   10. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:57 PM (#1328654)
I think you're confusing our GM with yours Levski - Sabean's traded exactly 2 prospects in the last 10 years who have done anything- Keith Foulke, in the White Flag deal, and Joe Nathan.

Plus, really, when you farm doesn't produce any prospects worth anything, it's hard to trade away someone who'll become anyone.
   11. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 03:57 PM (#1328656)
Or rather, trade away anyone who'll become someone.
   12. philly Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:04 PM (#1328676)
We now have 3 SP and 8 relievers up - nice move Sabean! Couldn't leave Hennessy up- wonderfucking full!

Hennessey can came up. The 10 day restriction is lifted once another pitcher goes on the DL.

I assume Hennessey will be called up for a regular turn in the rotation, no?

As a strat owner of Hennessey who's main competitor has Jason Schmidt... well, things couldn't be working out much better in SF for ME.

You're welcome.
   13. Steve Treder Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:05 PM (#1328677)
Plus, really, when you farm doesn't produce any prospects worth anything, it's hard to trade away someone who'll become anyone.

Sure. But better than that is to trade prospects who don't pan out in exchange for players who add value, which Sabean has done several times: the Robb Nen, Jason Schmidt, Livan Hernandez, and Felix Rodriguez acquisitions come immediately to mind.

Sabean has his faults -- lord, does he. But he also has done some things well.
   14. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:14 PM (#1328703)
Sabean has managed to acquire good players for a heap of scraps in the past, but as the Giants are ravaged by injuries and old age, it'll be a lot more difficult for him to continue plugging the holes in the leaking ship; and furthermore, the time has come to trade away veterans for prospects, not the other way around, and it remains to be seen how good he'll be at that. I don't think Sabean has any idea what to do right now.
   15. Steve Treder Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:25 PM (#1328733)
Sabean has painted himself into a corner, for sure. But at this particular point I doubt very much he's thinking of going into fire sale mode; everything still hinges on the health of both Bonds and Schmidt, which are unknowns.
   16. The Artist Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:30 PM (#1328747)


Plus, really, when you farm doesn't produce any prospects worth anything, it's hard to trade away someone who'll become anyone


That's a fairly stupid arguement - since the question is whether he got value for them in the past. He's repeatedly traded away top prospects that didnt pan out to much for assets.

Other than Foulke and Bobby Howry (part of the same deal), Sabean has dealt away exactly one prospect (read: minor leaguer) who has had a career exceeding a 100 innings: Scott Linebrink. The best hitting prospect dealt away in the period ? Mike Caruso.

A long time ago, I wrote a little piece on this. Sabean has always used his prospects as trading chits, and they've turned out pretty well.
http://www.ballparkanalysis.com/articles/020104.htm
   17. Cris E Posted: May 11, 2005 at 04:57 PM (#1328838)
Other than Foulke and Bobby Howry (part of the same deal), Sabean has dealt away exactly one prospect (read: minor leaguer) who has had a career exceeding a 100 innings: Scott Linebrink. The best hitting prospect dealt away in the period ? Mike Caruso.


The book isn't closed on all of his moves. For example, Francisco Liriano is doing very well in AA for the Twins. But so far your point is standing up pretty well.
   18. bunyon Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:17 PM (#1328936)
The Black Knight on HGH would've taken Lancelot.
   19. shoewizard Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:21 PM (#1328966)
For the D Backs sake, I would still feel better if the Giants were losing games at a pace you would expect considering their roster and injury woes. I hate the thought that they could hang around .500 and make a run in July or August if Bonds and Schmidt make it back and are effective. I don't think it's likely, but I sure would like to see them go 20-40 over the next couple of months to make their return a moot point.
   20. bunyon Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:22 PM (#1328974)
The Black Knight on HGH would've taken Lancelot.
   21. bunyon Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:23 PM (#1328987)
I really mean it.
   22. The Artist Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:27 PM (#1329016)

The book isn't closed on all of his moves. For example, Francisco Liriano is doing very well in AA for the Twins. But so far your point is standing up pretty well.

Yeah, that was written at the time of the AJ trade, which I hated with a passion. Ugh.
   23. shoewizard Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:33 PM (#1329058)
Jason Schmidt PAP ranking since 2003

2003- 9th
2004- 2nd
2005- 3rd

Dumb. Just plain dumb.
   24. Steve Treder Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:38 PM (#1329100)
Yeah, that was written at the time of the AJ trade, which I hated with a passion. Ugh.

What a spectacularly bad trade that was, from every angle. It filled no need, yet depleted a key resource from a shallow part of the team. Plus, talent-for-talent, it was highly questionable, and then turned out horribly.

Kind of the Home Run of bad trades.
   25. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 05:39 PM (#1329109)
That's a fairly stupid arguement - since the question is whether he got value for them in the past. He's repeatedly traded away top prospects that didnt pan out to much for assets.

Eh, I reckon they weren't TOP prospects. So Sabean deserves credit for dressing up trash in flashy clothes and shipping it off to the stupider GMs like those of the Pirates, Dbacks, etc, etc. Which is a lot better than trading true TOP prospects for trash.
   26. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: May 11, 2005 at 07:43 PM (#1329900)
Well the Giants are still ahead of where they were at this time last year (when they were in the playoff hunt right until the final week of the season). So long as they remain around .500, anything is possible. A fully healthy Bonds is simply immeasurable.

In the short-term, hopefully they can split the six games against LA and SDN later this month and take at least two against the Rockies. Also, hopefully Chavez will still be in his season-long slump when the two clubs face-off.

The biggest problem facing SF is that LA could win 95+ games this year. ~90 wins probably won't get it done--maybe not even the WC. Even fully healthy, I don't think the Giants are a .600+ team and they have a tough second-half schedule. In July, they play 10 straight games against STL, LA, and ATL (first series right before the ASB). In August, they play another 6 against STL and ATL. LA's already played/playing most of their games against those two teams, so they'll be facing off against PIT and WAS while the Giants face the two elites of the NL. Even with everyone healthy, pulling of something like 20 wins in 30 games will be quite tough given the competition.

If they do somehow survive these injuries and make the postseason, it will be one helluva story, though.
   27. 1k5v3L Posted: May 11, 2005 at 08:07 PM (#1330082)
If they do somehow survive these injuries and make the postseason, it will be one helluva story, though.

Sure it will be. Free Willy III.

Unfortunately, right now the .400 Dbacks probably have a better shot at winning the WS than the Giants have at making the playoffs. Reality is a biatch.
   28. JMM Posted: May 11, 2005 at 08:37 PM (#1330347)
Tim Kawakami in the Mercury this morning put it perfectly. He says, remember that scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the knight gets one arm chopped off, then the other arm, then a leg, and he's spurting blood all over the place, but keeps saying, "Come on back an' fight!"

That's the Giants right now. They are complete toast, but they seem to be the only ones who don't know it.


I wonder if Kawakami knows that at the end of Steve Young's career, Ann Killion (another SJMN sports columnist, for you non-Bay Area residents)compared him the Black Knight?

Not that it isn't valid in both cases.
   29. Walt Davis Posted: May 11, 2005 at 10:17 PM (#1330846)
Jason Schmidt PAP ranking since 2003

2003- 9th
2004- 2nd
2005- 3rd


Even leaving aside whether PAP means anything, this is not a big deal. This is one of those cases where rank scores can be misleading. Nobody scores high on PAP anymore. Being 2nd or 3rd most heavily used doesn't mean much when nobody's being heavily used.

Schmidt's stress scores have been 52 (2005), 75 (2004), and 37 (2003). 75 is probably higher than you'd like (if you believe in PAP), but even that's not a big deal. BPro still has lots of year's of PAP data missing, but go back to 1998 to see some real stress scores.

PAP may or may not be a way of predicting injury, but it's been useless for the last few years because virtually no pitchers are throwing high-pitch games on a regular basis anymore. Right or wrong, teams are in agreement with BPro on the importance of pitch counts.

Now, that Jason Schmidt had offseason surgery before the 2004 season, pitched his regular load for a season plus, then turned up with a shoulder problem again in 2005 shouldn't be too shocking. (Or was it an elbow problem in 2004?)
   30. Flynn Posted: May 11, 2005 at 10:38 PM (#1330887)
He had an elbow problem in late 03, Walt. Pitched through it into the playoffs, had off-season surgery and started the year late, IIRC.
   31. Steve Treder Posted: May 11, 2005 at 11:13 PM (#1330955)
He had an elbow problem in late 03, Walt. Pitched through it into the playoffs, had off-season surgery and started the year late, IIRC.

That's right. And of course he had more than a bit of arm trouble in 2000-2001.

PAP may or may not be a way of predicting injury, but it's been useless for the last few years because virtually no pitchers are throwing high-pitch games on a regular basis anymore. Right or wrong, teams are in agreement with BPro on the importance of pitch counts.

Precisely.

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