Granderson/Jackson/Scherzer 3-Way Jamboree
Before catching up with some old business (I’ve had a wicked head cold for a week and a half), let’s first look at the Big 3-Way Trade.
As usual, I like to break down 3-way trades one team at a time.
The Diamondbacks acquired Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy for Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth.
This, I feel, is the hardest segment of the trade to justify. Jackson took a big step forward last year and unlike the ERA improvement from 2007 to 2008, this drop in ERA was matched by improvement in his peripheral stats. That being said, Arizona only has Jackson under control for two seasons and don’t look to be major players for any elite free agents. In Arizona’s position, I simply rather have the extremely promising Scherzer. I like Ian Kennedy more than a lot of people, but I find him very risky. Simply put, most finesse pitchers don’t become Jamie Moyer and there’s an injury history here. I’d have to think long and hard about trading Scherzer for Jackson-and-Kennedy and while I might in the end decide to do it, simply throwing in Schlereth as well puts me against the trade.
The Yankees acquired Curtis Granderson for Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, and Phil Coke.
Here is the easiest part of the trade to like. It just feels so unfair for the Yankees to essentially reduce payroll (by having Granderson instead of the replacement) and acquire a solid player without giving up much of crucial value.
Again, I like Ian Kennedy, but he really didn’t have a place in the organization. Kennedy’s not suited to be a reliever and the Yankees have a name-brand rotation. Good brands, too, not Packard Bell or Saturn. I feel Coke should be a decent enough reliever long-term, with a good fastball and occasional stretches of cluelessness that need to be stamped out, but he’s not a player the Yankees are going to really care about. That just leaves Austin Jackson. A lot of people like him, but I find him unimpressive on a statistical basis, a low-power hitter with way too many strikeouts (and a resulting extremely high BABIP that won’t carry to the majors) and from seeing his approach in person, I just don’t see how good major league pitching won’t eat him for breakfast.
Granderson is not without risk. Theoretically, one could fix the biggest problem with Granderson, a complete inability to hit lefties, with a platoon, but platooning a player widely considered to be a star is fraught with more peril than it is when you’re platooning players in a simulation. I simply cannot think of a lot of cases in recent years in which players with the star label in the prime of their careers are suddenly given platoon partners. It’s widely perceived as a demotion and when it’s done, it’s usually only done very sparingly, timing rest when a very good wrong-handed opponent is on the mound. However, even if you’re forced to take the bad with the good, Granderson’s a solid player with a very reasonable contract (guaranteed roughly $8 million per for 3 years).
The Tigers acquired Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth, Austin Jackson, and Phil Coke for Edwin Jackson and Curtis Granderson.
And here’s the rest. I’m of mixed emotions here. If he stays healthy, Scherzer could be a fixture in the Tigers rotation for a long time and when the time comes, the Tigers have the resources to keep him long-term if he’s worth it. Schlereth is extremely promising as well.
My main quibble with this trade from Detroit’s point-of-view is that they seem to value Austin Jackson a lot more highly than I do. They see Curtis Granderson. I see Curtis Granderson without a lot of things that makes Curtis Granderson a really good player. How the Tigers do in this trade will depend a lot on who was right about Jackson. I can’t help but feel that if the Diamondbacks were interested in giving away Scherzer/Schlereth for Jackson/Kennedy (which they must have been since that’s what they did), the Tigers could have found someone else the Diamondbacks wanted instead of Kennedy, left the Yankees completely out of the trade, and hung onto Granderson.
Just as a side note, Schlereth and Scherzer are the only two players that haven’t already had a projection run this offseason, so for information’s sake, Scherzer’s top comps are Mike Witt, Tim Hudson, and Josh Beckett and Schlereth’s are Dennys Reyes, Darren Oliver, and John Rocker.
2010 ZiPS Projections
————————————————————————————————-
Player W L G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA ERA+
————————————————————————————————-
Coke 3 4 79 0 68.1 73 39 8 29 55 5.14 89
Jackson 13 10 34 34 203.2 198 92 24 80 153 4.07 117
Kennedy 3 5 17 16 81.0 82 45 8 38 65 5.00 95
Scherzer 9 5 29 26 143.2 135 63 15 60 138 3.95 115
Schlereth 3 2 45 0 45.2 41 23 4 33 47 4.53 100
————————————————————————————————-
2010 ZiPS Projections
——————————————————————————————————————
Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG OPS+
——————————————————————————————————————
Granderson 586 105 150 27 11 26 67 66 143 16 .256 .333 .473 109
Jackson 551 58 136 26 4 6 50 38 132 16 .247 .298 .341 68
——————————————————————————————————————
Dan Szymborski
Posted: December 08, 2009 at 11:21 PM |
145 comment(s)
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Kennedy: You are wonderful.
Scherzer: Thank you; I've worked hard to become so.
Kennedy: I admit it, you are better than I am.
Scherzer: Then why are you smiling?
Kennedy: Because I know something you don't know.
Scherzer: And what is that?
Kennedy: I... am not left-handed.
[...]
Scherzer: You are amazing.
Kennedy: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Scherzer: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Kennedy: Tell me.
Scherzer: I'm not left-handed either.
True, but isn't depth in the rotation something they lack? Or am I missing something?
Of course, just timing rest when a good wrong-handed opponent is on the mound could eliminate 20-25% of Granderson's PA vs LHP.
This probably means the Yankees are stuck with Melky Cabrera in left field.
I wouldn't bet on that. It's December 8th, not March 28th.
Sorry, I had to get that in. I can't help it.
The Jackson line seems right on: A lighter hitting Granderson. From what little I saw of him last year, I think he might be a bit faster though.
Nah, Melky's getting traded for Gavin Floyd tomorrow.
Seriously, what makes you think the Yankees will refrain from signing a left fielder just because Melky's been displaced by a better player?
You mean Intangibles, #############, Nick Swisher and pie, right?
also, i think it should be noted that jackson is just 10 months older than scherzer. if scherzer still has unrealized potential, i think it's beyond dumb to not acknowledge that so too does jackson.
Well, he's not very good, you see. Certainly not yet, anyway.
Right, the old "day off with a tough lefty in the lineup". If they're going to give him occasional days off anyway, why not make them when you face a lefty? Granderson's over all stats look better, the team does better, everyone wins. No, it's not a straight platoon like in a Diamond Mind game or something, but it's close enough to the same effect.
It also helps with Drew that he's 34 and misses time anyway almost every year.
Kennedy: I ought to be, after 20 years.
Scherzer: Oh, there's something I ought to tell you.
Kennedy: Tell me.
Scherzer: I'm not left-handed either.
Kennedy: Inconceivable!
I think it would be somebody like Steinbrenner, however, who'd say "inconceivable" here, birdlives!
Ouch, that's what I get for writing in piecemeal. That should read finesse pitcher (and does, now).
And then I post the explanation in the wrong thread, to double the egg on my face.
Given that I suspect a large percentage of the frequent posters are GenXers, it's not suprising to me at all.
Granderson, however, is absolutely horrific against them, with a split 214 points of OPS worse than his overall line.
Dealing Coke may work for the Yankees in the short term but sooner or later...
It's not just here. I'm constantly surprised how often I hear Princess Bride quotes from people who weren't even born when it came out. A lot of kids who haven't even seen the movie know the dialogue.
Why would this surprise you? The attitude -- tongue-in-cheek with a touch of snark -- and resulting dialogue is absolutely perfect for this venue. And the line:
is invaluable for an internet message board.
He's had 685 PA vs lefties vs 2211 against righties. What makes us so sure he's really a .270/.344 guy batter against lefties? He's not one of those Mariano Duncan-style switch hitters, but bats lefty all the time, right?
Princess Bride is just littered with great quotes. It has to be one of the top 5 quotable movies of all time. Although I'm only not saying #1 because I'm sure that someone else will come along with something I'm not thinking of. I mean, other movies have individual great quotes, but not only does PB have all-time great individual quotes, but it also has the sheer volume.
I like this deal for all three teams. Austin Jackson will hit eventually, with enough power to justify his existence; people forget that he's just about to turn 23. At 23 Granderson was still in AA ball.
-- MWE
Casablanca.
"Play it again Sam" - never said in the movie
"Round up the usual suspects"
"This could be the start of a beautiful friendship"
"Of all the gin joints in all the world, she had to walk into mine"
"We'll always have Paris"
"I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on here"
That's just off the top of my head.
Edit: Coke to Srul
Tricky for me to judge, since I've never actually seen either. So anything I know (like snapper's list) is guaranteed to be a great quote. Whereas I've seen The Princess Bride, I don't know, probably 50 times. So a line like "Yes, you're very smart. Shut up." will crack me up as a movie reference, but it's not exactly well known.
"My health. I came to Casablanca for the waters." "Waters? What waters? We're in the desert." "I was misinformed."
"What kind of man is Captain Renault?" "He's just like any other man, only more so."
"Major, there are certain sections of New York that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade."
"...and just remember, this gun is pointed straight at your heart." "That is my least vulnerable spot."
And those are just the quotes that aren't famous.
"I'm a drunkard." "That makes Rick a citizen of the world."
Citizen Kane
Spaceballs
The Dark Knight
Star Wars (Original Trilogy, although there are a few gems in the prequels)
The Wizard of Oz
Rocky movies
Gone with the Wind (if only for "I don't give a damn")
Dodgeball
Star Trek II, IV, VI, "First Contact" and XI
Animal House
Forrest Gump
Benjamin Franklin: Don't worry, John, the history books will clean it up.
John Adams: Hmm... Well, I'll never appear in the history books anyway. Only you. Franklin did this, and Franklin did that, and Franklin did some other damn thing. Franklin smote the ground and out sprang George Washington - fully grown and on his horse. Franklin then electrified him with his miraculous lightning rod and the three of them, Franklin, Washington and the horse, conducted the entire revolution all by themselves.
Benjamin Franklin: I like it.
Dealing Coke works just fine as long as you don't snort the profits.
"Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would."
Here's looking at you, kid.
Those might be great lines, but you never hear them quoted. Many movies have great lines, but to be a great quote, it has to be able to be referenced outside of the movie. For example "I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse" immediately conjures up the source material, and is usable in many situations. The Casablanca quotes above are like that.
Scarface
Clerks
Fight Club
Heathers
Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back
Juno
Swingers
Rounders (more so if you play or hang out with poker players)
Napolean Dynamite
Dazed And Confused
God I love John Malkovich's ridiculously hammy acting in that movie. He chows down on every piece of scenery in sight.
Mr Neville: 'You must forgive my curiosity, madam, and open your knees.'
and, from near the end of the film,
Mr Neville: 'Why is that dutchman waving his arms about? Is he homesick for windmills?'
Anthony Higgins' performance as Mr Neville was wonderful, but I suspect had too much of himself in it, which implies he carried around a large truckload of arrogance. I heard his career fell victim to the bottle, after a stab at Hollywood playing a Nazi in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Oh, I could go on.
Instead, I'll return to the theme of this thread and note that just a few days ago Cashman was quoted as saying he was looking for 'pitching, pitching, pitching; and a left-fielder'. He has now dealt three pitchers. Was he fibbing? Or is the real Yankee blockbuster still to come?
EDIT: Oh and Mrs Herbert: 'Carp live too long - they remind him of Catholics.'
That's true. For the kind of movies and quotes you're referring to, I'll add:
The Maltese Falcon (all credit here should go to Dashiell Hammett; the best lines are taken verbatim from the novel)
Chinatown
Ghostbusters
This is Spinal Tap
Fargo
Terminator 1 & 2
Jaws
Spinal Tap
How about Anchorman?
"I don't want no Commies in my car. No Christians either."
"Most people spend their lives getting out of tense situations. A repo man spends his life getting into tense situations."
"Look at 'em. Ordinary ####### people. I hate 'em."
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes."
"You gonna give me my car, or do I gotta go to your house and shove your dog's head down the toilet?"
And a hundred more ...
If you like The Maltese Falcon, you should check out an independent film called "Brick" that came out a few years ago. Another very quotable movie, but not well known. The writer/director is a big Hammett fan. Hammett's and The Coen Brothers inspired him to write the movie.
"This is an outrage! Do you know who I am?"
"I do. You're lucky the bar's open to you."
"I'm not a witch, I'm your wife!"
"truuuuuuue...loooooove" (this one I say to my wife all the time)
Deserve's got nothin to do with it
Helluva thing killin a man, you take everything he's got, and everything he's ever gonna have
Innocent, innocent of what?
He's holding onto his sh-- like it was money
I even thought I was dead, until I found out it was just that I was in Nebraska
If you just want good lines and good dialogue, I highly recommend "The Lion in Winter":
Eleanor of Acquitaine: "What would you have me do, give out, give up, give in?
Henry II: Give me, a little peace.
Eleanor: A little, why so modest? How about eternal peace, now there's a thought.
Eleanor: Henry's bed is Henry's province. He can people it with sheep for all I care, which on occasion he has done.
Henry II: Rosamund's been dead for seven years...
Eleanor: ...two months and eighteen days. I never liked her much.
Henry II: You counted the days.
Eleanor: I made the numbers up.
Prince John: A knife! He's got a knife!
Eleanor: Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!
Ned Logan: I sure do miss my bed.
Will Munny: You said that last night.
Ned Logan: No, last night I said I missed my wife, tonight I just miss my ####### bed.
And the always funny:
The Duck of Death
My wife and I use versions of the old king's "Won't that be nice?" constantly.
And virtually the entire Bill Crystal scene is usable. Just the other day my wife was slicing some tomatoes and turned to me and said "They're so perky, I love that."
"You'd be William Munny out of Missouri. Killer of women and children."
"That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned."
"All right now, I'm comin' out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna kill him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife. All his friends. Burn his damn house down. "
We all got it coming, kid.
Well, you sure killed the hell outta that fella today.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a #####! You just shot an unarmed man!
Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.
Credited
"Over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!?"
-- MWE
"We are speaking only English to get ready for when we are in America. What watch, Helga?"
"Ten watch."
"Such much?"
Just off the top of my head:
"Sex panther. 50% of the time, it works every time!"
"I'm in a glass case of emotion!!!"
"Milk was a poor decision!"
"Scotchy scotch scotch, I love you"
"Baxter, did you eat that entire wheel of cheese? I'm not even mad, that's impressive!"
"I'm a very important man... my apartment smells of leather bound books and mahagony."
"So were you in Vietnam?"
"Yeah."
"Were you in the ####?"
"Yeah, I was in the ####."
"I'm a little bit lonely these days."
"I saved Latin. What did you ever do?"
"She's my Rushmore, Max."
"Yeah, I know. She was mine, too."
And virtually the entire Bill Crystal scene is usable. Just the other day my wife was slicing some tomatoes and turned to me and said "They're so perky, I love that."
Right. I mean, the movie has a ton of recognizeable lines:
But it has just as many that are what, in my definition, are quoteable and can be dropped in for a response in a conversation, and are recognizeable as from the movie, but appropriate to a discussion:
I would say that Casablanca is probably its only real rival for this kind of quote.
"Why would a reviewer make the point of saying someone's not a genius? Do you especially think I'm not a genius?...You didn't even have to think about it, did you?"
"Can the boy tell time?"
"Oh, my Lord, no!"
"You heard me, Coltrane."
Spinal Tap...
I actually stopped reading all the posts after a bit, but I was disappointed there was no mentioned of Doc in Tombstone.
"Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
"There is no spoon."
"Goodbye, Mr. Anderson."
"You're cuter than I thought. I can see why she likes you."
"Who?"
"Not too bright, though."
(After looking them up I can see they're all from the same movie. Which explains why I don't remember them. I didn't know anyone remembered The Matrix for its dialogue.)
"What the f### are you carrying a gun for? What, in case somebody steps to you, Snoop Dogg?"
"I'm gonna make Gretzky's head bleed for super fan #99 over here."
"Yeah... big f#####' teeth on ya'. And she's just like this little bunny, who's just kinda cowering in the corner."
"Haven't you seen Boyz N The Hood? Now one of us is going to get shot."
"...this is the guy behind the guy behind the guy."
"You better replace the pin, Chi-Chi. The natives look restless."
"Y'know, it's not so much me as Roenick; he's good."
"This place is dead anyways."
"I'm gonna find me two waitresses here and I'm gonna pull me a Fredo." (Great Godfather reference there!)
"You're so money and you don't even know."
"I don't want you to be the guy in the PG-13 movie everyone's *really* hoping makes it happen. I want you to be like the guy in the rated R movie, you know, the guy you're not sure whether or not you like yet. You're not sure where he's coming from. Okay? You're a bad man. You're a bad man, Mikey. You're a bad man, bad man."
(Copied this one from IMDb.com so I didn't have to type it)
Trent: They're gonna give daddy the Rainman suite, you dig that?
Mike: Do you think we'll get there by midnight?
Trent: Baby, we're going to be up five hundy by midnight!
Mike: Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhh!
Trent: Vegas baby! Vegas!
Mike: Vegas!
(By the way, I love this. Two of my favorite things, baseball and movies. I am actually surprised no one has mentioned a baseball themed movies yet, so I will. Sandlot has some great ones. You can say "You're killing me, Smalls" and even 20 year old females know which movie you're talking about.
Dennis: I can absolutely keep a hummingbird as a pet, bro. It's no different than having a parrot or a parakeet. It's a bird, bro.
Charlie: You really can't, and I'm not saying I agree with it. It's just that bird law in this country—it's not governed by reason.
Dennis: There's no such thing as "bird law".
Charlie: Yes, there is.
French Soldier: No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
King Arthur: [after Arthur's cut off both of the Black Knight's arms] Look, you stupid Bastard. You've got no arms left.
Black Knight: Yes I have.
King Arthur: *Look*!
Black Knight: It's just a flesh wound.
Large Man with Dead Body: Who's that then?
The Dead Collector: I dunno, must be a king.
Large Man with Dead Body: Why?
The Dead Collector: He hasn't got #### all over him.
Knight 1: We are the Knights who say... NI.
The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead.
[a man puts a body on the cart]
Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.
The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.
The Dead Body That Claims It Isn't: I'm not dead.
Knight 1: ...You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... WITH... A HERRING!
"I'll leave when I'm good and ready!"
Always kills me.
"What did he say?"
*flashback*: "Daddy horny, Michael."
"He said some wonderful things."
"What did he say?"
*flashback*: "I just blue myself!"
"He said some wonderful things."
"I wanted to share my Pop Secret with you."
"Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does does for money" (sees shocked children) "or candy!"
EDIT: Forgot to mention the best ones:
"Maybe you could take a date?"
"How am I supposed to find someone willing to go into that musty old claptrap?"
[awkward pause]
"The cabin... yes! That would be difficult too!"
And the best Tobias line: "I'm afraid I prematurely shot my wad on what was supposed to be a dry run, if you will, so now I'm afraid I have something of a mess on my hands."
I find the difference of opinion on Scherzer fascinating.
You've made a huge mistake. If you include TV shows, we're including Arrested Development, The Wire, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 30 Rock, Veronica Mars, Doctor Who, Newsradio, Scrubs, and a plethora of other folks' favorite shows, which could run us another 200 posts. And that's why you don't bring up TV quotes on the internet. (Clearly you didn't get any J. Walter Weatherman lessons as a child.)
Edit:
I love this even more in the original version, where GOB says, "Or cocaine!"
The Yanks get a great deal here it seems to me.
The Tigers -- in a baseball sense it's not good but as a payroll dump I guess it's OK.
The D-Backs. I'm with those that think it's strange. Scherzer-Jackson looks like a probable loser from their perspective but a LOOGY, even if he's a good one, for a 5th starter is a trade I'll almost always make. What I expect the D-Backs to try to do is sign Jackson to a Webb/Haren style extension. Maybe not for Haren money (though that's not a lot) but that they'll try to jump early -- no later than midseason unless he stinks -- to get him wrapped up longer term at a "reasonable" price. I'll got out on a limb and say this means they won't resign Webb.
The only one I use anymore is this one, said in a horrible monotone voice:
"Stay on target...Stay On Target...STAY ON TARGET!"
I'm honestly shocked.
"It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, Woody. And I'm wearing Milkbone underwear."
"Women. You can't live with 'em... Pass the beernuts."
But I do love me some Scrubs quotes.... EAGLE!!!!
1. "I came to Casablanca for the waters." "But we're in the desert!" "I was misinformed."
2. "Aw, man. I just shot Marvin in the face!"
3. "There are a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to ruin yours."
4. "He's a good man, and thorough."
5. "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."
I'm shocked, shocked that it took 100 posts for anyone to suggest #2.
As for the most quotable TV show, the best way to avoid a thousand-post discussion on the topic is simply to link this video and this one. Case closed.
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