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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Wednesday, July 29, 2009

Mariners - Acquired Wilson and Snell

Seattle Mariners - Acquired SS Jack Wilson and P Ian Snell from the Pittsburgh Pirates for C-DH Jeff Clement, SS Ronny Cedeno, P Aaron Pribanic, P Brett Lorin, and P Nathan Adcock.

Given the half-hearted way the Mariners included Clement in their future plans, the only surprising thing is that it took them this long to send him away.  Wilson’s excellent defensively but while none of the other players in the trade are in the top dozen or so Mariner prospects, I don’t really think the Mariners should be buying at this point.  It’s a pretty big package to give up for limited time of Jack Wilson and a #5 starter.

Cedeno’s in this package just to fill out a lineup card for 2 months.

Sadly for Clement, Pittsburgh isn’t the best fit for him, either.  He almost certainly hits better than Garrett Jones going forward, but Jones has bashed his way into becoming the incumbent starter.  And given that it took the Pirates years to give a shot to Doumit, a less-bad defensive catcher who had hit in the majors already, Clement probably bides time until a team that actually wants to play him claims him on waivers.

The new regime in Seattle is much improved, but I’m not a fan of this acquisition.


2009 ZIPS Projection - Jack Wilson
——————————————————————————————————————
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI   BB   SO SB   BA OBP SLG
——————————————————————————————————————
Year-to-Date   266   26   71 18   1   4   31   15   31   2 .267 .304 .387
Rest-of-Year   171   18   45   9   0   2   15   11   21   1 .260 .309 .357
——————————————————————————————————————
Total       437   44 116 27   1   6   46   26   52   3 .264 .306 .375
.

 


2009 ZIPS Projection - Ronny Cedeno
——————————————————————————————————————
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI   BB   SO SB   BA OBP SLG
——————————————————————————————————————
Year-to-Date   186   15   31   4   2   5   17   10   50   3 .167 .213 .290
Rest-of-Year   135   15   33   6   1   3   15   7   26   2 .243 .284 .365
——————————————————————————————————————
Total       321   30   64 10   3   8   32   17   76   5 .199 .243 .322

 


2009 ZIPS Projection - Jeff Clement
——————————————————————————————————————
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI   BB   SO SB   BA OBP SLG
——————————————————————————————————————
Year-to-Date   377   52   96 26   2 10   52   33   86   1 .255 .318 .414
Rest-of-Year   204   27   53 14   1   7   31   18   40   0 .260 .328 .442
——————————————————————————————————————

 


2009 ZIPS Projection - Ian Snell
——————————————————————————————————————
            W   L   G GS   IP   H   ER   HR   BB   SO   ERA
——————————————————————————————————————
Year-to-Date   5   9   21 21 115.7 117   59   7   60   86 4.59
Rest-of-Year   3   6   13 13   70.3   79   41   8   38   61 5.25
——————————————————————————————————————

Year-to-date totals include minor-league translations, if applicable.

 

Dan Szymborski Posted: July 29, 2009 at 04:43 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Zoppity Zoop Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3272402)
I understand there aren't a lot of top prospects there, but that's a lot of bodies to give up for a player the Pirates have been trying to get rid of for 2 years and a hittable pitcher who wanted to be demoted.
   2. AROM Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:08 PM (#3272417)
If Clement is a passable catcher, he's a valuable player. Seattle doesn't have much else there, so it's safe to say the new regime doesn't think he can do it.

As a 1B/DH type, it looks like he's Munsoned.
   3. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:10 PM (#3272423)
ian snell's upside is massive, and with him playing at safeco, with those 3 OFs behind him, he could really start to show it as soon as his next start.
   4. DL from MN Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:14 PM (#3272431)
It seems strange that Seattle is buying. Is there another deal yet to come?
   5. The Essex Snead Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:16 PM (#3272435)
Isn't the problem more Steven Pearce & not Jones? They've been playing Jones in the OF, with Moss & Delwyn Young playing in the opposite corner. Maybe they can move Pearce into that corner (assuming they do something w/ Moss or Young; maybe include one of them in some other deal), & give Clement a shot @ 1B?
   6. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:17 PM (#3272437)
This trade is criminally stupid for the Pirates if they don't get Clement into the lineup 5 days a week, immediately. It makes absolutely no sense if they don't. I have to assume since they made this trade that they intend to play Clement, and it's not because they're in love with Brett Lorin.
   7. The Essex Snead Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:19 PM (#3272439)
Aren't we Clement fans gonna look dumb when it's Cedeno that becomes the perennial Pittsburgh All-Star representative. ;)
   8. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:22 PM (#3272443)
Ronny is running out of time to earn a big paycheck. Every time he plays at Iowa he hits .350ish but anywhere else he is pretty sorry........
   9. The Ghost is getting a Woody Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:24 PM (#3272446)
per Cot's Contracts:

Wilson's contract:
# 09:$7.25M, 10:$8.4M club option ($0.6M buyout)
# limited no-trade clause 2007-09, allowing Wilson to block deals to 6 clubs each season

Snell's deal:
# 09:$3M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.75M club option, 12:$9.25M club option

Looks like they hope to fix Snell.
   10. hokieneer Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:28 PM (#3272456)
Snell could be the gem in this trade. He has above average stuff, but has trouble getting out of his own way long enough to be effective. In that ball park with 3 CFs and Beltre, he could be a very effective #3-4-type starter for the Ms.
   11. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:28 PM (#3272457)
Ronny is running out of time to earn a big paycheck. Every time he plays at Iowa he hits .350ish but anywhere else he is pretty sorry........

If his success in Iowa is due to the home park's proximity to a river, this could turn out to be a great trade for the Pirates.
   12. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:29 PM (#3272461)
"This trade is criminally stupid for the Pirates if they don't get Clement into the lineup 5 days a week, immediately. It makes absolutely no sense if they don't."

They're just trying to build the team's asset base right now. Thinking about it in terms of how the pieces fit doesn't make sense at this point, when they have so few actual pieces of value.
   13. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:30 PM (#3272465)
Word is the Pirates are contributing a bunch of cash, which the Mariners intend to use to pick up Wilson's 2010 option.

Clement's headed for Indianapolis, which is just a head scratcher, really. I was actually assuming this trade was the latest (final?) signal the Pirates hate Steve Pearce.
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:32 PM (#3272471)
"And given that it took the Pirates years to give a shot to Doumit, a less-bad defensive catcher who had hit in the majors already, Clement probably bides time until a team that actually wants to play him claims him on waivers"

I should note that much of the reluctance to use Doumit as a C was coming from the Littlefield-era personnel. When Huntington and Co. came in, they declared an open competition for the catching job, and then gave it to Doumit when he played well in spring training.

If Clement can catch, I think they'll let him.
   15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:34 PM (#3272474)
"Clement's headed for Indianapolis, which is just a head scratcher, really. I was actually assuming this trade was the latest (final?) signal the Pirates hate Steve Pearce."

So if they DID promote Clement immediately, you'd bash them for not giving Pearce his shot?

Man, you're never happy, are you?
   16. RJ in TO Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:35 PM (#3272480)
Wilson's contract:# 09:$7.25M, 10:$8.4M club option ($0.6M buyout)


Based on his defense, is Wilson worth anything close to $8.4M?

Snell's deal:# 09:$3M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.75M club option, 12:$9.25M club option

Looks like they hope to fix Snell.


Even if they don't fix him, that's not anything approaching a crippler of a deal. Most teams can afford a bad contract which maxes out at $6.75M. At worst, they end up with a back of the rotation starter.
   17. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 05:36 PM (#3272481)
Hey, did I ever say I liked Steve Pearce?

I'm just hoping there's a plan here besides 'keep Clement as a AAAA guy in case someone gets hurt until we can trade him'.

Pearce is 26 and has been OPS'ing .875 in AAA. He really ought to be given 400+ PA's in the majors some year soon to see what he does with them, but he looks like just a guy to me. I don't lose sleep over burying him.
   18. The District Attorney Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3272543)
Dave Cameron might in fact be running the Mariners. Snell is the second guy he's beaten the drum for (the first being Ryan Langerhans) that they've almost immediately gone out and acquired...
   19. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:08 PM (#3272556)
Sadly for Clement, Pittsburgh isn't the best fit for him, either. He almost certainly hits better than Garrett Jones going forward, but Jones has bashed his way into becoming the incumbent starter.


I don't know. I'd say Jones is a prolonged cold streak away from being sent back down should either Pearce or Clement look better.

I like this deal for the Pirates. They traded two old-regime guys for a bevy of loot.
   20. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:11 PM (#3272565)
For those who don't know: CLEMENT CANNOT CATCH. He has terrible knees, already injured, and he has no defensive ability behind the plate to speak of. He will be the Pirates' 1B going forward. Unless they're morons.

Clement made a lot more sense for an AL team where he could be a 1B/DH.
   21. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3272568)
I don't know. I'd say Jones is a prolonged cold streak away from being sent back down should either Pearce or Clement look better.


Yeah, but 'prolonged' in this case basically means 'through the end of the 2009 season'. Barring injury, I expect Jones will remain a regular through the end of this season no matter how badly he hits, maybe losing some PT in September when the rosters expand and Clement comes up. Then they'll sort it out next spring.
   22. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:15 PM (#3272571)
Stockpiling talent is the Pirates focus right now. In a way it doesn't really matter when certain people play this year. Once things coalesce a bit more, they can figure out who's worth keeping and who isn't. They may spend the year seeing if Jones is indeed for real. Later, they'll check on Clement and/or Pearce.
   23. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:24 PM (#3272580)
He will be the Pirates' 1B going forward. Unless they're morons.


Think we have the answer on why he won't be playing 1B.
   24. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:43 PM (#3272635)
I should note that I think the Pirates are more likely to have Jones back at first to start 2010 than at either corner, but I didn't make that clear.

I don't feel that Pearce is really in the team's plans at all.
   25. Neutrino Jones Posted: July 29, 2009 at 06:51 PM (#3272664)
If Clement is a passable catcher, he's a valuable player. Seattle doesn't have much else there, so it's safe to say the new regime doesn't think he can do it.



It's already been mentioned, but...

1. Clement isn't really a passable catcher and...

2. The Mariners see Adam Moore as their future catcher. His highest offensive upside will never be what Clement's could be, but his defense is much better than Clement's defense.

3. Not really following on from the first 2 points, but Pittsburgh needs talent in their system, as someone above pointed out, and acquiring as much potential talent as they can is a wise move. I'm personally sad to see Clement go, and I don't really think he has a place to play in Pittsburgh, but they could use him to fetch something else of value down the road.
   26. bookbook Posted: July 30, 2009 at 12:46 AM (#3273208)
Yes. Because teams salivate over sluggers who can't catch on with dynasties like the M's and Bucs.

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