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— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Friday, March 18, 2005

Mets - Released Joe McEwing

New York Mets - Released IF Joe McEwing

Finally, the Mets make up for the Black Friday trades.  OK, maybe not, but despite the tears of people that are sad to see Super Joe depart, the Mets are a better team without him, even before considering the Mets invited a million players better than McEwing to camp this year.  Sayonara, Clutch Midget.

Dan Szymborski Posted: March 18, 2005 at 03:59 PM | 76 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Brandon in MO (Yunitility Infielder) Posted: March 18, 2005 at 04:18 PM (#1205012)
so, where does Super Joe go? Florida or Houston?
   2. Famous Original Joe C Posted: March 18, 2005 at 04:28 PM (#1205027)
Were I a Mets fan, I'd be very happy about this.
   3. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 18, 2005 at 04:38 PM (#1205042)
As well I am...

Ice Williams should be next.
   4. 100 Years is Nothing Posted: March 18, 2005 at 04:56 PM (#1205074)
Just think of the countless ways Tony LaRussa could think of using this most valuable of players....
   5. Smitty* Posted: March 18, 2005 at 05:00 PM (#1205082)
I'm sure Joe's already lacing up his sneakers to go job around LaRussa's house.

Oh, and don't you hate pants?
   6. Steve G. Posted: March 18, 2005 at 05:05 PM (#1205098)
If Bo Hart and Joe McEwing made the club with Eckstein and the rest of the Cards, our IZR rating would go through the roof!
   7. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: March 18, 2005 at 05:11 PM (#1205102)
Whither the Alex Sanchez thread?
   8. Most Favored Haitian Status Posted: March 18, 2005 at 05:40 PM (#1205150)
Hell, the Mets invited a million players better than McEwing to camp LAST year.
   9. danielj Posted: March 18, 2005 at 06:16 PM (#1205200)
YES!
   10. Benji Posted: March 18, 2005 at 07:31 PM (#1205342)
I'm happy he's released, but I want to thank him for being the selfless hard working player he was. On a team with Alomars, Vaughns and Weasels #1 and #2, that was refreshing anyway. He'll be around 30 more years as a coach and manager, so if you hate Super Joe, you're gonna have agitta a long time.
   11. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 18, 2005 at 07:46 PM (#1205371)
I second what Benji said. I don't think there's ever been a reason to hate McEwing--it's not his fault that people keep paying and playing him.
   12. Rob Base Posted: March 18, 2005 at 08:17 PM (#1205412)
Yeah, I'd play if the Mets wanted me to, no matter what the apes on this board had to say about it. That said, Joe, the bat you're using is TOO BIG FOR YOU.

Hopefully his next hitting coach will clue him in. It'd be great if he went all Kevin Elster on us.
   13. Sam M. Posted: March 18, 2005 at 08:21 PM (#1205419)
That said, Joe, the bat you're using is TOO BIG FOR YOU.

Hopefully his next hitting coach will clue him in.


And the fastballs are too fast for him, and the curve balls curve too much for him, and the outfield grass is too far away for him . . . .

Face it. Changing to a lighter bat certainly won't hurt McEwing, but it's not going to turn him into a major league hitter, either. He is what he is: a nice guy with AAA baseball skills who's been extraordinarily well-rewarded for being . . . a nice guy with AAA baseball skills. It's a bit of an injustice to the many nice guys with better baseball skills who never got the opportunity, but all in all, worse things have happened.
   14. Rob Base Posted: March 18, 2005 at 08:26 PM (#1205427)
Trust me, a lighter bat and this guy is going .252/.317/.462 on us (Elster's 99 RBI year). I guess a year like that wouldn't exactly make us chase Reyes out of Queens with pitchforks and torches.
   15. cynic Posted: March 18, 2005 at 08:46 PM (#1205478)
a nice guy with AAA baseball skills who's been extraordinarily well-rewarded for being . . . a nice guy with AAA baseball skills.

Actually, I think he's been well-rewarded for the same reason that Juan Pierre is going to be well-rewarded next season when he hits free agency: a number of front offices still don't know how to properly evaluate and compensate a player who does a fairly rare thing (bunt/steal, play multiple positions) well.
   16. base ball chick Posted: March 18, 2005 at 08:47 PM (#1205480)
hi yall!!

us stros fans do NOT want stupor joe.

we ALREADY have a team full of guys who can't hit, run or catch, thank you very much.

and we do NOT want billy koch, either. we ALREADY have a team full of washed up relievers who suck.
   17. Chris in Wicker Park Posted: March 18, 2005 at 09:00 PM (#1205515)
Today, I am one happy Met fan. I have nothing (else) bad to say about SBM, but I hope things work out well for him. Now, thankfully, not on the Mets 25 man roster.
   18. Joshemy Posted: March 18, 2005 at 09:01 PM (#1205520)
I don't hate Super Joe the guy... hell, he seems like a great guy.

Super Joe the player just wore on me...
   19. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: March 18, 2005 at 09:13 PM (#1205547)
Ooh, a chance to tell my bizarre Joe McEwing story. I met him once. He was signing autographs at a supermarket on the Upper East Side. Except it was the dead of winter (like January 12th or something) and they had him scheduled something like 2-4 guranteeing no one would be there. Plus, compounding all this, they had him wedged in this corner in the back, with the frozen pizzas. It was like something out of a Dada play. I talked to him almost 10 minutes. Nice guy. Probably still have the autographed photo somewhere
   20. baudib Posted: March 18, 2005 at 09:47 PM (#1205609)
This McEwing thread is better than the other McEwing thread(s).
   21. Sam M. Posted: March 18, 2005 at 10:16 PM (#1205656)
we ALREADY have a team full of guys who can't hit, run or catch, thank you very much.

I take umbrage at that remark. Joe McEwing can catch very well, thank you.

As for the hitting and running part . . . . well, he can catch damn well. Yup, damn bloody well, in fact. Hardly ever drops one, near as I can tell. Reliable as a guy can be, good ol' Joe.

Now you want him on the Astros, right?
   22. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 18, 2005 at 11:10 PM (#1205755)
My sources within the Met organization tell me that the team is very interested in Kaz Ishii (Peterson raves about him) and Miguel Batista.
   23. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 18, 2005 at 11:16 PM (#1205764)
Given that Batista was recently named the Jays' closer, the Mets would probably have to surrender a legitimate prospect for him. Pass.
   24. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:15 AM (#1205835)
I don't hate Super Joe the guy... hell, he seems like a great guy.

I hate Super Joe the guy. He obviously rubbed off on Wright. That's bad. He needs to stay away from the phenoms.
   25. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:27 AM (#1205842)
I can't tell if you're being facetious, but as long as he isn't offering hitting tips, phenoms could do worse than hang around Joe McEwing. He seems like a really nice guy, shuts his mouth, goes about his business, and works really hard.
   26. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:29 AM (#1205845)
I can't tell if you're being facetious

Yeah, I was.
   27. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:41 AM (#1205861)
   28. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:43 AM (#1205864)
Oh my God no.

No.

Nooooooooooooooooooo.
   29. Rob Base Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:05 AM (#1205880)
I guess if the price is Jason Phillips, then fine.
   30. Sam M. Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:14 AM (#1205894)
Terrible move.

Terrible? Au contraire. Jason Phillips had a year in 2003 totally out of line with his prior record. Nothing suggested he was capable of an .815 OPS in the majors. While 2004 was surely much worse than his true talent, his real value is not all that great, especially not with Castro on hand to back up Piazza.

Ishii would give us a starter who can eat up a lot of innings, exactly what we need with Trachsel out. Remember what we noted the other day -- Trachsel's loss put the Mets in a dangerously precarious position with virtually no decent depth in starters when/if someone else goes down.

I mean, really. How much value do you think Jason Phillips has???
   31. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:15 AM (#1205896)
I think the Ishii acquisition would be a pretty decent one, especially if the Mets' infield defense is as improved as some of you think it is.
   32. Rob Base Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:18 AM (#1205903)
Ishii is pretty bad, but almost certainly better than Ginter and those other bozos. Plus, he could be a Japanese companion for Matsui.
   33. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:22 AM (#1205906)
Jason Phillips is much more valuable than Kaz Ishii, who, in my opinion, is one of the few starters who make Victor Zambrano seem valuable. In other words, this guy is the definition of terrible.

Sam, have you seen Ishii's stats? Last year, in 172 innings he struck out 99 hitters and walked 98. Even though he pitched at pitching friendly Dodger Stadium, He gave up a HR every 9 innings. Who cares if he can pitch a lot of innings? I mean, knowing what he did last year, do you really want him to?
   34. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:24 AM (#1205911)
BPro basically hates him.

I tend to agree.
   35. Sam M. Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:26 AM (#1205914)
Sam, have you seen Ishii's stats? Last year, in 172 innings he struck out 99 hitters and walked 98.

OFF, have you seen Jason Phillips' stats? Last year, he hit .218 with a .298 OBP and a .624 OPS. What do you really think he should bring in trade? Johan Santana?
   36. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:38 AM (#1205928)
No. I just don't think its wise to trade him right now, especially not for a piece of crap like Ishii.

I swear, if the Mets acquire him, I'm boycotting Zambrano's and Ishii's starts this year.
   37. Dr Love Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:39 AM (#1205929)
Even though he pitched at pitching friendly Dodger Stadium, He gave up a HR every 9 innings

Dodger Stadium has a below average HR rate. As I said in the dugout, I'd do this deal in a heartbeat, it gets Ishii and Bako off the roster. Yeah, Phillips is nothing special but neither is Ishii, and Phillips could potenially be of more use to LA, as Ishii's days with the Dodgers are numbered and the Dodgers could use an upgrade at C.
   38. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:39 AM (#1205931)
I concur with Sam. You're looking for an emergency fifth starter. Kaz more than fits the bill. Realistically you want someone who isn't going to get blown out every fifth day and preferably gives you a chance to win at least half the time. Kaz pretty much does that.

He had 16 quality starts out of 31, and pitches an occasional gem.
   39. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:40 AM (#1205933)
I guess I go from a casual fan of the Dodgers to them becoming my second favorite NL team.

I mean, with the Goggles Brothers, how can they be beat?
   40. Jersey Joe Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:41 AM (#1205935)
Even if Phillips is as terrible as his stats from last year indicate, I'd rather have him in a supporting role than Ishii pitching a little more than five innings every fifth day. And Phillips' numbers last year were a lot further out of line with what he'd historically done that Ishii's. Matt Ginter might not be a great long term solution, but if Kaz Ishii's all you can find to replace him, keep looking.
   41. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:50 AM (#1205956)
I'd rather have Phillips on hand in case if something happens to Piazza. Phillips/Castro is mediocre, but serviceable. Castro/Heitpas would be a disaster.

I really don't see what Ishii offers (other than a higher salary) that Ginter or even Heilman doesn't. Its not that I particularly like New York's internal options until Trachsel comes back; its just that I really don't like Ishii. IMHO, Phillips' marginal value over the Mets' internal alternatives to third catcher is greater than Ishii's marginal value over the Mets' internal alternatives to 5th starter.
   42. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 01:57 AM (#1205972)
Ishii offers a career 4.30 ERA and a record of 36-25 without great offensive support. He's over-qualified to be a backup fifth starter.
   43. stubbyc Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:11 AM (#1205990)
Ishii offers a career 4.30 ERA and a record of 36-25 without great offensive support. He's over-qualified to be a backup fifth starter.

A 4.30 ERA in Dodger Stadium with awful peripherals. He managed a 5.44 DIPS last year. He's absolutely awful and he's making more than 3 million bucks. I'd almost rather have Shawn Estes.

Why not just go with Seo or Ginter?
   44. base ball chick Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:13 AM (#1205992)
you guys think ishii's so terrible?

you maybe prefer pete munro?

tell yall what - why don't you send us ishii and we'll send you brandon duckworth or carlos hernandez or tim redding or dave burba(useful Veteran Presence)
   45. Dewey, Crackpot and Soupuss Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:14 AM (#1205994)
A 4.30 ERA in Dodger Stadium with awful peripherals.

Yes.

Career ERA at Chavez Ravine - 3.71
Career ERA elsewhere - 4.87

Maybe Rick Peterson sees a project there, but as a neutral observer, I can't see why you'd want to give up a major-league player, even a bad one like Phillips, for Ishii.
   46. stubbyc Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:17 AM (#1205999)
tell yall what - why don't you send us ishii and we'll send you brandon duckworth or carlos hernandez or tim redding or dave burba(useful Veteran Presence)

When considering salary, I'd rather have Brandon ####### Duckworth than Kaz Ishii...and Duckworth happens to be one of the worst pitchers in baseball. I still hold out some hope for Hernandez.
   47. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:18 AM (#1206000)
Let's not forget that Phillips is making the minimum, while Ishii is under contract for three more years at 5.5M total.

This isn't a terrible deal, but it's not good. Ginter is a better bet to provide value than Ishii is and he's cheaper and younger. The only mark against Ginter is that he might not hold up to a 5th starter's workload, but with the outside chance of Petit or Humber being ready by mid-season and payroll flexibility to take on salary, that shouldn't be an issue.

On the other side of the ledger, Jason Phillips isn't the next coming of Mike Piazza. He's slow, he's average defensively behind the plate, and he's no great shakes with the stick. Most people would agree that his true talent isn't the .815 OPS he posted in 2003, but most people would also agree that he's better than the .624 he posted last year.

So let's take the average, a very mediocre .720 OPS. Last year that would have ranked 30th among catchers with 100+ PA's. So, like him or not, Phillips is better than the average backup catcher, and he's making the minimum!

I'll happily take this back if the deal doesn't go down, but for the moment I've lost some of the faith I had in the front office not to do something stupid. And if Peterson likes Ishii as much as rumored, I'm a lot more willing to believe that he had a hand in Black Friday than I was yesterday.
   48. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:19 AM (#1206001)
<i>A 4.30 ERA in Dodger Stadium with awful peripherals. He managed a 5.44 DIPS last year. He's absolutely awful and he's making more than 3 million bucks. I'd almost rather have Shawn Estes.

Why not just go with Seo or Ginter? /i>

Ishii, like Zambrano, outpitches his DIPS ERA every year. There's no use in using projected ERAs if his real-life performance outpitches that every time. He is not absolutely awful. Ishii is a guy who can actually win the game by himself three or four times a year. Most No. 5 pitchers can't do that.

Absolutely awful would be Paul Abbott
   49. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:22 AM (#1206006)
baseball chick, I would happily trade you Kaz Ishii for Tim Redding. Heck, I'll even throw in $2m so we split the difference in salary.
   50. J. Cross Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:24 AM (#1206010)
BRUTAL. BRUTAL. BRUTAL.

Wow, I didn't think losing Trachsel was a such a big deal until I saw this debacle.

While Ginter might well have been an upgrade from Trachsel, Ishii is worse than either of those guys and worse than Heilmann or Seo.

The worst part of this deal is not losing Phillips, that's not such a big loss, it's that Randolph will have to trot Ishii out there every 5th day. This is pure subtraction by addition.
   51. stubbyc Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:27 AM (#1206016)
Ishii, like Zambrano, outpitches his DIPS ERA every year.

Almost every pitcher on the Dodger Staff outpitched their DIPS the last few years. Might have something to do with their defense eh? As a team they had a 4.37 DIPS last year, but managed a 4.01 ERA.

He is not absolutely awful.

I wouldn't consider him much better than replacement level, if at all. He's not any better than Ginter or Seo, he costs you a cheap player, and he's making a lot more than he deserves.
   52. J. Cross Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:28 AM (#1206017)
There aren't enough minutes in the next decade for Trachsel to fix both Zambrano AND Ishii.
   53. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:28 AM (#1206019)
Ishii, like Zambrano, outpitches his DIPS ERA every year.

While this may be true, I wouldn't put much stock in it continuing to be true unless you have a sample size much larger than three years (Tom Glavine, for instance, and I still think he could be due for collapse).

If you want to run the numbers on his Japanese stats, and it turns out he's been doing this since his Yakult days, that might convince me.

Ishii is a guy who can actually win the game by himself three or four times a year.

Yes, but given his rate stats, this also implies that he's going to lose the game all by himself a couple times a year, too.
   54. Old Matt Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:29 AM (#1206020)
This also perpetuates the Favorite Player of Matthew Gelb Curse.

Victims:

Vinny Prospal
Brian Boucher
Brandon Duckworth
Jason Phillips
   55. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:31 AM (#1206024)
While Ginter might well have been an upgrade from Trachsel, Ishii is worse than either of those guys and worse than Heilmann or Seo.

I think Ishii, Heilman, and Seo are all pretty much the same, results-wise. But the point is still there -- why give up a useful, cheap player to get something you already have in abundance, and pay more for it to boot?

The one silver lining to this (besides the possibility of Peterson fixing both Zambrano and Ishii and making himself look like a Mazzone-esque genius) is that I can tease my DePodesta-hating Dodgers fan friend about acquiring a catcher with a .212 batting average.
   56. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:32 AM (#1206025)
Matt, can you make your next favorite player be Felix Heredia? Or Roberto Hernandez? Maybe Ice Williams?
   57. J. Cross Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:37 AM (#1206031)
If either Zambrano or Ishii manages a 2:1 K:BB ratio next year (in anything close to a full-season) I will concede genius Mazzone-esque stature to Peterson and never critiicize another one of the Mets pitcher acquisition under his reign again.
   58. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:42 AM (#1206040)
I don't really like the Ishii deal simply because of the money. I don't really mind giving up Philips or letting Ishii start every 5th game.
   59. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:45 AM (#1206054)
Eh, I think the money is the least of the worries. 3M for next year isn't killer, especially when you consider that Trachsel being out saves the Mets $7M in 2006. Should the Mets be in contention at the trading deadline, I'd be surprised if Minaya's hands were tied by this additional salary.
   60. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:48 AM (#1206061)
I think Rick Peterson's pitching genius is more myth than anything. I'm willing to bet a one year sponsorhip of Heath Bell's B-Ref that Victor Zambrano's (and/or Ishii if we acquire him) K:BB will be nowhere near 2:1 this year.
   61. base ball chick Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:51 AM (#1206068)
Posted by cynic on March 18, 2005 at 09:22 PM (#1206006)
baseball chick, I would happily trade you Kaz Ishii for Tim Redding. Heck, I'll even throw in $2m so we split the difference in salary.

- if you serious, you are ON. remember, i watched every single game redding pitched in the majors last year. i know just about every stat he's got. we are REAL short on pitchers. i wanna dump franco and wendell and duckworthless in a trash can, too.

now, do you STILL wanna trade? i don't wanna take advantage of a sweet helpless boy like yall.....
   62. Sam M. Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:54 AM (#1206071)
I'm willing to bet a one year sponsorhip of Heath Bell's B-Ref that Victor Zambrano's (and/or Ishii if we acquire him) K:BB will be nowhere near 2:1 this year.

Unless 1:1 counts as "near" 2:1, I'm not taking that bet. But I still don't mind this deal. A mediocre-to-bad starter for a back-up catcher? Sounds fair to me.
   63. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 02:56 AM (#1206076)
Yes, but given his rate stats, this also implies that he's going to lose the game all by himself a couple times a year, too.

Except that he doesn't. At least no more than the next fifth starter, probably less.
   64. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 03:03 AM (#1206092)
I think calling Ishii mediocre-to-bad is an overstatement. This guy is downright terrible.
   65. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 03:08 AM (#1206111)
- if you serious, you are ON. remember, i watched every single game redding pitched in the majors last year.

I don't doubt it -- but did you watch him the year before? His line from 2003 is significantly better than that from 2004.
   66. base ball chick Posted: March 19, 2005 at 03:34 AM (#1206208)
Posted by cynic on March 18, 2005 at 09:08 PM (#1206111)
- if you serious, you are ON. remember, i watched every single game redding pitched in the majors last year.

I don't doubt it -- but did you watch him the year before? His line from 2003 is significantly better than that from 2004.


- from 2003? i think i missed 2 or 3, and i only saw one in person. but he had the SAME problem of not being able to pitch from the stretch and he caught more than a few lucky breaks. i ALSO read all his minor league stats and his low ERA in 03 looks like a fluke. the team ASSUMED he'd learned how to pitch. i researched him for my blog - if you want the link, i'll give it to you....
   67. AJMcCringleberry Posted: March 19, 2005 at 03:46 AM (#1206233)
Ishii? Bleh. I guess Peterson had some time left over after fixing Zambrano.
   68. baudib Posted: March 19, 2005 at 03:48 AM (#1206239)
OK on second thought I don't know what the #### the Mets were doing. They should have just gone out and gotten Rich ####### Harden to fill Trachsel's spot.
   69. cynic Posted: March 19, 2005 at 04:08 AM (#1206269)
I think Rick Peterson's pitching genius is more myth than anything.

Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think that Peterson's value as a pitching coach stems more from his ability to prevent injury than it is to improve performance. It's just a hunch I have with no data to back it up, but if I'm right, then the next time management asks if he can "fix" someone, he should keep his mouth shut.
   70. Benji Posted: March 19, 2005 at 04:15 AM (#1206287)
Japanese Met starting pitcher?? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget Nomo and Yoshii.
   71. Sam M. Posted: March 19, 2005 at 04:34 AM (#1206320)
Benson with another strong outing today (five shutout innings). Right now, the top three in our rotation are looking very, very good.
   72. base ball chick Posted: March 19, 2005 at 05:20 AM (#1206416)
Posted by Sam M on March 18, 2005 at 11:34 PM (#1206320)
Benson with another strong outing today (five shutout innings). Right now, the top three in our rotation are looking very, very good.

- won't it be something if benson turns into a elite starter and kazmir doesn't???!!!

- in out club, only clemens has looked really good. it's gonna be a lonnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggg season.

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
   73. Шĥy Posted: March 19, 2005 at 05:48 AM (#1206468)
won't it be something if benson turns into a elite starter and kazmir doesn't

Not really since Kazmir was traded for Victor "walks a guy every ten minutes" and not for Benson.
   74. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: March 19, 2005 at 07:55 PM (#1207002)
you mets fans are crazy. seriously.
   75. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: March 20, 2005 at 01:27 AM (#1207415)
this sucks, the mets were supposed fill their fifth starter hole, by trading that rapist guy for Brian Anderson.
   76. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: March 20, 2005 at 07:41 PM (#1208365)
Back to McEwing...

Yip yip yippee!!!!!!!!!

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