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— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Friday, November 30, 2007

Nats - Acquired Milledge

Washington Nationals - Acquired CF Lastings Milledge from the New York Mets for OF Ryan Church and C Brian Schneider.

Yuck.

While the initial reaction is revulsion, it’s not really as bad as the Kazmir trade as the Mets do get a worthwhile player back in Ryan Church.  It’s still pretty bad, though, as Brian Schneider’s arm is still living off the reputation he garnered in 2003-2004 when he threw out more than 50% of baserunners (he’s been down around 30% the last few years) and while his platoon splits are large, he doesn’t really hit righties all that impressively either; he’s just that much worse against lefties.  He’s an inferior player to Castro and while $5 million a year isn’t a crippling amount for the Mets, why pay it for a player who should be a backup catcher?.  This would have been a better trade for the Mets if it was straight up for Church, though not a good deal by any stretch.  Hell, it would have been a better trade for the Mets if they picked up John Schneider with the intention of making a straight-to-DVD-thriller “Bo Duke and the Thundercats in The Prisoner of Zenda.”

I like Ryan Church.  He’s a solid player in a corner, not a star, and not really a centerfielder, either.  He was treated rather shabbily with the Nats who thanked him for his 287/353/446 rookie season by giving Brandon Watson his job for no particular reason after Church didn’t have a great spring.  Even after his best professional season, most of which was wasted toiling in the minors and off the bench, again for no particular reason, the Nats acted like they were doing a favor by letting him get at-bats.

All this being said, I’d rather have Milledge.  Milledge is a good player now, has tremendous physical tools, is 7 and a half years younger than Church, and has less service time to boot.  Yes, there have been some questions about Milledge in center and while I don’t buy them, we know that Church isn’t a centerfielder.

I don’t think I have to even go into detail why this is good for the Nats.  The Nats get the cheapest player in the trade, the most valuable player in the trade, and the player with the least service time in the trade, and the player that most fills a need for their new team in the trade.

Oh, wait, I forgot.  Milledge likes rap music, said an expletive, and doesn’t always wear his baseball cap to complete professional standards.  Whoop-de-doo. 

2008 ZiPS Projection - Ryan Church
———————————————————————————————————-
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
———————————————————————————————————-
Projection   410 54 112 31 1 17 63 48 99   3 .274 .356 .482
———————————————————————————————————
Opt. (15%)  460 71 137 38 2 24 92 61 98   3 .298 .386 .546
Pes. (15%)  267 29   65 16 0   8 38 26 69   0 .243 .315 .393
———————————————————————————————————-
Top Comps:  Ruppert Jones, Gus Bell

 

2008 ZiPS Projection - Lastings Milledge
———————————————————————————————————-
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
———————————————————————————————————-
Projection   392 55 108 20 4 15 60 42 88   7 .276 .360 .462
———————————————————————————————————
Opt. (15%)  547 91 162 33 6 28 98 71 107 12 .296 .390 .532
Pes. (15%)  362 44   89 17 2 12 48 36 85   3 .246 .323 .403
———————————————————————————————————-
Top Comps:  Andruw Jones, Curt Flood

 

2008 ZiPS Projection - Brian Schneider
———————————————————————————————————-
          AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
———————————————————————————————————-
Projection   365 29   87 14 0   5 38 41 62   1 .237 .317 .316
———————————————————————————————————
Opt. (15%)  399 37 107 18 0   6 41 49 55   1 .258 .353 .358
Pes. (15%)  228 13   48   6 0   1 15 20 42   0 .211 .277 .250
———————————————————————————————————-
Top Comps:  Johnny Oates, Jorge Fabregas

Dan Szymborski Posted: November 30, 2007 at 07:55 PM | 151 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. bibigon Posted: December 01, 2007 at 08:17 AM (#2630537)

The back to back collapses of Hansen and Bard has to be frustrating for the Sox front office. At least they've got decent pitching depth right now... until they fork it over to the Twins, that is.


I think the front office is hardly frustrated with the fact that <gasp> two of their draft picks haven't worked out... Especially given how much success they've had with the rest.
   102. 1k5v3L Posted: December 01, 2007 at 08:23 AM (#2630540)
Well, we're talking about two first round picks (Hansen was their highest pick, no? and Bard was the second highest) which cost them quite a lot of money. Am not saying Theo is in a fetal position on his carpet right now, sucking his thumb in sheer shock, but it's got to be frustrating/disappointing for the Red Sox to see these two guys struggle so badly in pro baseball, especially given their talent/hype/dominance in college. That's all.

Why did the Sox jump Place all the way to AA this year? Quite aggressive. Maybe they didn't want him to pick up bad habits at Lancaster... but that only grows hair on a man's chest, as kevin would argue. And I saw the Yankees drafted Bard before but couldn't sign him. My guess is he didn't need a Tommy John surgery at the time, so they decide to wait.

Speaking of TJ surgery, two of AZ's 2006 draft picks had their elbows rebuild: Dallas Buck (3rd rounder, this past summer) and Daniel Stange (8th rounder, just recently). The Stange surgery is really disappointing as he was starting to open some eyes in the organization. Right now, it's Max Scherzer, Brooks Brown and Mighty Bust. And I think Bust might be the best pitcher of the three.
   103. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:47 AM (#2630599)
With all the rumors about Milledge to the A's I can't believe they weren't willing to beat this deal.
   104. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco) Posted: December 01, 2007 at 02:25 PM (#2630648)
I don't want any Mets fans to jump on my account, but is it possible that Omar never stopped working for the Expos? Between Flores and this we have more clues than Frank Costello did, don't ya think?

Incomprehensible disasters produce conspiracist thinking. This disaster is as inexplicable as a baseball disaster gets. I was wondering when a conspiracy theory would show up.
   105. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: December 01, 2007 at 03:13 PM (#2630664)
Is this even legal?
   106. Toolsy McClutch Posted: December 01, 2007 at 03:22 PM (#2630666)
Mets fans, I have your answer. Omar spoke to the Twins and any Mets-Twins Santana deal was contingent on Brian Schneider being part of it. I'm guessing because the Twinkees are moving that other catcher they have to (1B? 2B? CF?).

So in the end, it's Lastings and Maine for, in essence, Church and Santana. Now that's a great deal!

By the way, if this doesn't come off, it's because the Twins pulled out at the last second...
   107. Chris Needham Posted: December 01, 2007 at 04:05 PM (#2630685)
With all the rumors about Milledge to the A's I can't believe they weren't willing to beat this deal.

The Winter Meetings aren't over. There's still plenty of time. I definitely haven't inked Milledge's name into my lineup card yet.
   108. Hunter Brickey Posted: December 01, 2007 at 04:47 PM (#2630701)
With all the rumors about Milledge to the A's I can't believe they weren't willing to beat this deal.


From what I've been hearing recently, the A's are not as crazy about Milledge as they used to be. In fact, in recent reports I've heard concerning Dan Haren, it was Carlos Gomez and not Milledge going to Oakland.
   109. nicksmith Posted: December 01, 2007 at 05:36 PM (#2630714)
Just for fun, the All Traded By Minaya Team, going back to his time with the Expos.

C Michael Barrett/Gregg Zaun
1B Mike Jacobs
2B Brandon Phillips
3B Jose Bautista
SS Geoff Blum
LF Jason Bay
CF Grady Sizemore
RF Lastings Milledge
UT Ty Wigginton

SP Scott Kazmir
SP Chris Young (this happened 4/3/04, not sure if Minaya was still with the 'Spos then)
SP Brian Bannister
SP Cliff Lee
SP Yusmeiro Petit

RP Heath Bell
RP Jorge Julio
RP David Weathers
RP Royce Ring

Now to be fair, he got back value in some of these trades, but this looks like a team that could be just as good as the one the Mets will put on the field next year.
   110. Amit Posted: December 01, 2007 at 05:40 PM (#2630716)
you've got several duquette trades mixed in there. good try tho.
   111. Margo Adams FC Posted: December 01, 2007 at 05:42 PM (#2630719)
Minaya didn't trade Kazmir, which is not to say he wouldn't have if he could have
   112. nicksmith Posted: December 01, 2007 at 05:53 PM (#2630722)
Ahh, my bad, Minaya didn't rejoin the Mets until 9/04. You can scratch Weathers, Bautista, Kazmir, and Wigginton off that list. It's still a pretty good team though.
   113. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: December 01, 2007 at 06:03 PM (#2630727)
Follow the link for the full transcript of the phone conference with Jim Bowden, Manny Acta, and Lastings Milledge:

http://nats320.blogspot.com/2007/11/todays-press-conference.html

Quite interesting, actually. Manny seems particularly keen to defend Milledge against some of the accusations that dogged him last year. This exchange is representative:

QUESTION: Manny, out of curiosity—once Lastings Milledge hits his first home run as a National—and he goes down the right field line and high fives all the fans—what would be your reaction?

MANNY ACTA: Let me tell you. A lot of those things—-it depends who does it. I think a lot of you guys [reporters] have seen players shake fans hands. You know the kid was just a rookie and it was blown way out of proportion. It’s a contrast when all of you guys want us to be fan friendly—-but then you shake someone’s hand then its taken the wrong way. I just think he was young kid feeling the love of the fans and he didn’t do it to disrespect the game or anything like that. HE WAS JUST EXCITED!


I also thought Milledge did a fine job speaking for himself. I think it's worth a read.
   114. Harvey Berkman Posted: December 01, 2007 at 06:05 PM (#2630729)
Omar p@wn3d by Bowden!
   115. The District Attorney Posted: December 01, 2007 at 06:20 PM (#2630745)
Omar p@wn3d by Bowden!
again
   116. Excel Hearts Choi Posted: December 01, 2007 at 06:25 PM (#2630752)
There was some talk on a Rangers site that I frequent about a deal to the Mets for Laird. Some people were tossing about the idea of getting Milledge in return. I immediately thought that they were idiots. How could you possibly expect to get Milledge in a deal centered around Laird? Of course, this deal with the Nats makes them look all the smarter.

Let's assume that, for the sake of the argument, that there was a deal which sent Laird to the Mets for Milledge. Laird is projected to have a 2008 line of .249/.305/.391 while Schneider is projected to put up a .237/.317/.316 line. Now Laird would be moving to a pitcher's park, but he previous numbers in a part-time role were much better (.296/.332/.473 in '06). I think that Laird is a better hitter than is projected, so let's assume that his numbers stay the same. Laird is slightly a better hitter due to his moderate power, plus is only 28 and has just over two years of service time. While Laird may never develop into the starting catcher that Ranger fans saw in '06, he will make a very capable backup. Last season's $400,000 salary is much more reasonable for a catcher who has yet to prove himself. As for another player in this trade, the Rangers would probably part with Benoît, giving the Mets a good arm in the bullpen.

There have been so many stories linking the Rangers and Mets in a deal of Laird, that I just can't see how the above scenario would not have come up. And even thought this is a bad deal for the Mets, it is more acceptable in the shortrun.
   117. Swedish Chef Posted: December 01, 2007 at 06:26 PM (#2630754)
They should have done Willie Randolph and Carlos Gomez for Manny Acta instead.
   118. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: December 01, 2007 at 07:01 PM (#2630768)
117 - Swedish Chef:

For all the jokes that Nats fans make about Bowden turning the club into Red East or Kasten making it Braves North, it IS rather funny that we've acquired three great.

And yes, Nats fans really are in love with Manny Acta as manager right now. He made a few rookie mistakes as manager last year, but his clubhouse approach was fantastic and the majority of his in-game moves (particularly his late-game substitutions, bullpen mangement, and defensive positioning) were impressive for a first-time skipper. And the very fact that he kept a theoretically "historically bad" team fighting respectably all the way until the last game of the season says volumes about his motivational skills. It's really just meaningless speculation, but I do believe that an Acta-helmed Mets team would not have completed The Collapse last season.
   119. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: December 01, 2007 at 07:02 PM (#2630769)
Aargh. Let me take a second stab at that first sentence:

For all the jokes that Nats fans make about Bowden turning the club into Reds East or Kasten making it Braves North, it IS rather funny that we've acquired three great talents from the Mets in Acta, Flores and Milledge over the last year.
   120. Walt Davis Posted: December 01, 2007 at 08:28 PM (#2630824)
Just for fun, the All Traded By Minaya Team, going back to his time with the Expos.

Colon is still good enough to make that rotation.

So, now, do you former Minaya defenders still think the swap of Sizemore, Phillips, Lee for Hernandez, Leifer and Biddle was just due to the strange situation in Montreal? Or do you think that maybe Minaya's talent evaluation skills and perhaps especially his ability to balance the short and long terms is just a wee bit off?
   121. Darren Posted: December 01, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2630838)
With all the rumors about Milledge to the A's I can't believe they weren't willing to beat this deal.


I think they put a Milledge on him.
   122. Sam M. Posted: December 01, 2007 at 08:48 PM (#2630844)
Or do you think that maybe Minaya's talent evaluation skills and perhaps especially his ability to balance the short and long terms is just a wee bit off?

Not his talent evaluation skills, Walt. I think those are fine. I think he knows quite well that Milledge has a boatload more talent than what he received in exchange, and that there is a strong chance Milledge will produce in a way that this trade will come back to haunt him for a long time.

But the second part of it . . . certainly. More precisely, he is willing to squander the total value advantage to gain what he thinks he needs in the short term, even if it is wildly disproportionate. In this instance, Minaya could care less that Milledge may produce 200 win shares more than Church and Schneider over the course of his career. He cares that in 2008, (a) they may deliver 2-3 more wins for the Mets, (b) Schneider fills a short-term need at C and Church is probably about as good as Milledge in RF, and (c) he believes (rightly or wrongly) that Gomez or F-Mart will deliver as much or more than Milledge will, so what does it matter if he deals away Milledge in a wasteful trade?

It is like a drunkard with a credit card on an uncontrollable spending spree -- he's just going to drive the team into "talent bankruptcy." Eventually, you have no assets left because you've spent all of the future assets for lesser present value. I just keep reminding myself that he did the opposite in the Maine and Perez trades, and hope for the best.

What's worse in this case is that Schneider is actually worse than Castro, and the Mets will be worse off, than they would have been if they'd just stuck with a straight Castro/Estrada platoon. Even if Schneider's defense makes him better than Estrada, which is possible, you'll have Castro playing probably 40 fewer games than he would have as Estrada's partner. That's a bad trade-off. So I doubt the Mets will be better even in the short term.
   123. BeanoCook Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:28 PM (#2630871)
I guess I can fault Doug Melvin/Brewers for not thinking they could get Lastings Milledge for J Estrada and Gabe Gross. LM would have fit right into LF for the Brewers and no platoon!

I mean really, what is the difference? In fact, I'd rather have Gross than Church.
   124. BeanoCook Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:29 PM (#2630872)
CAN'T
   125. BeanoCook Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:31 PM (#2630876)
I would have pissed myself if Milwaukee added LM to that young team. It seemingly could have occurred. I guess give credit to Bowden for spending time making absurd trade offers that get accepted. Geez, I can onlly imagine all of the garbage trade offers he has made, this can't be the only one?

Good for him.
   126. Sam M. Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:33 PM (#2630877)
I guess I can't fault Doug Melvin/Brewers for not thinking they could get Lastings Milledge for J Estrada and Gabe Gross.

Well, except Melvin couldn't have gotten Milledge for that deal. Minaya never really wanted, and still doesn't want, Estrada. He wanted Schneider for defense. If Omar wanted Estrada to be the Mets' catcher, yesterday's deal would never have happened, since . . . well, he already has Estrada, doesn't he?
   127. BeanoCook Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:42 PM (#2630882)
This trade sucks so bad, we don't know what Omar is thinking nor do we know if G Gross/Estrada for LM-Mota would have worked. We really don't. All logic has been removed from the Mets organization.
   128. Srul Itza Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:43 PM (#2630883)
So when does somebody start the FiyaMinaya.com website?

I am going to keep pushing this idea.
   129. Sam M. Posted: December 01, 2007 at 09:48 PM (#2630891)
This trade sucks so bad, we don't know what Omar is thinking nor do we know if G Gross/Estrada for LM-Mota would have worked. We really don't. All logic has been removed from the Mets organization.

Oh, come on, Beano. They're going to non-tender Johnny Estrada. They don't want Johnny Estrada so much, they gave up Lastings ####### Milledge to get somebody else instead of Johnny Estrada. I clearly don't think like Omar Minaya these days, and don't much want to. But there's one thing I know for sure: the one player in the bioverse he was NOT going to give up Lastings Milledge to acquire was Johnny Estrada. Johnny Estrada was the player he gave up Lastings Milledge so he could get rid of. This one's easy.
   130. bibigon Posted: December 01, 2007 at 10:20 PM (#2630904)
Maybe catcher defense is the next big sabermetric discovery. When the Sox traded Nomar, Theo was crucified. We've moved far enough from that position now that such a trade would be taken as quite reasonable these days.

I'm about 10% serious, and 90% searching for a reason for this trade.
   131. J. Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: December 02, 2007 at 05:35 AM (#2631159)
I mean really, what is the difference? In fact, I'd rather have Gross than Church.

You'd rather have the guy with the career 93 OPS+ than the guy with the 113 OPS+? I mean, it's sort of a defensible view, but in my view Church hits for average better, hits for more power, is a better outfielder (I saw quite enough of Gross in the outfield in Toronto) and runs better. Gross has a better arm and will take a walk more often. I don't think it's that close.
   132. Downtown Bookie Posted: December 02, 2007 at 01:48 PM (#2631257)
Number 73 - You forgot (or, perhaps, chose to forget) Jeff Kent and Jose Vizcaino to the Cleveland Indians for Carlos Baerga and Alvaro Espinoza.
   133. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: December 02, 2007 at 06:49 PM (#2631376)
I spent the last 8 days in England, up in the Midlands, three hours north of London, where the internets are still mainly theoretical. Just got back in last night and crashed. I was fully expecting to spend all of my BTF catchup time fending off barbs from Sam M. re: Mike Hampton's bleeding hamstring, and what do I see when I pop open ye olde Transaction Oracle? Millidge for Church/Schneider? Oh, Santa, you're so kind to me sometimes.
   134. JPWF13 Posted: December 03, 2007 at 05:35 PM (#2632205)
I can't believe they weren't willing to beat this deal.


May be they were but didn't get the chance
May be Omar offered Milledge to the A's for Haren, Beane says no, I want ________ and _________ too,

Omar doesn't counter, thinks, "Well Milledge won't get me Haren..."

Later, Omar trades Milledge for Church and Schneider, Beane says to himself, "what a dumbass, I would have given him more than that....

Omar follows a set plan and pulls the trigger too quickly- he settled for BlowDuca because Hernandez and Molina didn't immediately jump at Omar's first offer (which in the end was better than the deal either man later signed for). Omar's not like whoever is running the Yankees, whether he gives an "ultimatum" or not doesn't matter, he jumps, he doesn't hold out for the "best offer", he doesn't pull his offers back and wait a few weeks (let alone months)- he decides to trade a chip and that chip gets traded, he decides he needs a catcher, he will get A catcher, BEFORE he does anything else.
   135. rico vanian Posted: December 03, 2007 at 09:33 PM (#2632675)
biggest shocker is that Omar didn't trade for another latino.
   136. Moe Greene Posted: December 04, 2007 at 02:48 AM (#2633057)
biggest shocker is that Omar didn't trade for another latino.

If Lasting's last name was Rodriguez instead of Milledge, this trade wouldn't have happened.

/ducks/
   137. shoewizard Posted: June 03, 2008 at 01:51 AM (#2803595)
Just curious.......how do people feel about this trade now. Only 1/3 of the season has gone by, so of course thats not much baseball. But does anyone want to modify their stance at all, or is it too soon to do that?
   138. Dan Szymborski Posted: June 03, 2008 at 02:23 AM (#2803662)
Not sure - several Nats hitters seem to playing ridiculously horribly. Maybe Lenny Harris is just the worst hitting coach ever.
   139. Chris Needham Posted: June 03, 2008 at 02:28 AM (#2803673)
YES!!!!!

(to the lenny thing, not the reconsidering the trade thing)
   140. Repoz Posted: June 03, 2008 at 03:02 AM (#2803755)
Shiiit, Lenny Harris could roll outta bed in the middle of December...AND FREEZE HIS ####### LOW OBP ASS OFF!
   141. Chris Needham Posted: June 03, 2008 at 03:21 AM (#2803786)
Yep. And if there's a runner on third with less than two outs, and the infield's back to concede the run, there aren't many more I'd rather have roll over on a grounder to second either.
   142. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: June 03, 2008 at 03:28 AM (#2803796)
It's too early to judge the trade. Look at the Nady-Perez trade. A year ago, that looked like a clear win for the Mets. Now, not so much.

Church is really a good player though and his defense is really tremendous. He has an excellent arm and very good range.
   143. CrosbyBird Posted: June 04, 2008 at 03:21 PM (#2805571)
Look at the Nady-Perez trade. A year ago, that looked like a clear win for the Mets. Now, not so much.

If Perez never throws another ML inning, that was still a great trade. Roberto Hernandez was an important part of the 2006 Mets, and even in the playoffs, where he didn't give up a hit.

Church is really a good player though and his defense is really tremendous. He has an excellent arm and very good range.


Church had less than 3 years of ML service entering the 2008 season, so he's still relatively cheap and under club control for a while. If Church can put up seasons like 2007 offensively with his defense, he'll be a fine player for the Mets. If he's actually as good as 2006 or 2008, you have to give Minaya a lot of credit for that deal. Especially now that Randolph seems to be buying into using Castro against lefties.

Schneider used only against RH pitching won't kill the Mets offensively. A .275/.352/.375 line isn't awful. How's his defense looking statistically? I think he's looked like a pretty solid defensive catcher in the games I've watched so far.
   144. JPWF13 Posted: June 04, 2008 at 03:35 PM (#2805583)
Just curious.......how do people feel about this trade now. Only 1/3 of the season has gone by, so of course thats not much baseball. But does anyone want to modify their stance at all, or is it too soon to do that?


Too soon

but then again I did post this on Metsgeek (now Raysgeek) when the trade went down:
Comment posted by jpwf13 on November 30, 2007 at 2:01 pm (#568564)

Ok as A Met fan I’m going to engage in some self delusion:

Milledge = Roberto Kelly circa 1992
Church = Paul O’Neil circa 1992.
   145. Conor Posted: June 04, 2008 at 04:05 PM (#2805624)
If Perez never throws another ML inning, that was still a great trade. Roberto Hernandez was an important part of the 2006 Mets, and even in the playoffs, where he didn't give up a hit.


Really? Hernandez pitched the bottom of the 8th of game 3 vs St Louis, when the Mets were trailing 5-0.

He pitched the 7th inning in Game 5, when the Mets trailed 4-2.

He got the last out in the 9th inning of Game 2, with the Mets trailing 9-6.

I mean, sure he didn't give up a run, but the closest game he pitched in was a 2 run game, and the Mets didn't win a game he appeared in.

Or am I missing sarcasm? I can't tell.

And they had no real need for him in the regular season with the kind of lead they had.

I never understood the idea that they needed an arm in the pen after Duaner got hurt.
   146. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 04, 2008 at 04:18 PM (#2805635)
I think it's too early to judge the trade, but if it turns out to be a winner for the Mets, I'll gladly admit I was an idiot. I'm still humbled by my Soriano-Wilkerson trade pronouncements. D'oh!
   147. JPWF13 Posted: June 12, 2008 at 03:38 PM (#2816826)
I think it's too early to judge the trade, but if it turns out to be a winner for the Mets, I'll gladly admit I was an idiot. I'm still humbled by my Soriano-Wilkerson trade pronouncements. D'oh!


I freely admit that I was wrong about the Soriano-Wilkerson Trade, and about Soriano in general.

However, I still think:
1: Milledge will have more value from 2008-end than Chruch from 2008-end.
2: Milledge will have a better career than Carlos Gomez

I also thought:
3: Church 2008 = Milledge 2008 valuewise

I'm wavering on 3, obviously Church has a significant lead on Milledge 1/3 the way through.
Unfortunately, after a flukish "hot" start, Schnieder is just as worthless as I thought he'd be.

By OPS, Met catchers are 13th/16
1Bs are 14th
LFs are 15th
RFs are 10th (ie: Non-Church RF's blow)

You cannot have a good offense with that many sinkholes.
The failure to date in 2008 is directly attributable to
1: The belief that Schnieder was the answer at C (Jesus Flores sigh)
2: The failure to have a contingency plan in case of a Delgado flop
3: The failure to have a good contingency plan in case of an Alou injury
4: Oliver Perez going from a 120 ERA+ to a 75 ERA+
   148. shoewizard Posted: June 11, 2010 at 01:40 PM (#3556223)
Since the trade

Church 1.0 WAR as a Met
Frenchy 0.7 WAR as a Met
Schneider 1.2 WAR as a Met

Milledge -2.3 WAR since leaving the Mets

Net Gain for Mets since the trade 5.2 WAR
   149. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: June 11, 2010 at 01:46 PM (#3556225)
I'm an idiot!
   150. shoewizard Posted: June 11, 2010 at 01:56 PM (#3556234)
Nobody has a crystal ball. I was never sure about Milledge. I always thought too many people here overrated him. But at the same time I thought he'd be a lot better than this and drafted him several times in Roto leagues, so what do I know ?
   151. zack Posted: June 11, 2010 at 02:21 PM (#3556246)
Where are you getting these numbers?

fWAR has Milledge at 0.6 WAR for his career, 0.6 since leaving the Mets.
rWAR has Milledge at -0.8 WAR for his career, -1.3 since leaving the Mets. And most of that is fielding.
   152. shoewizard Posted: June 11, 2010 at 02:35 PM (#3556255)
baseball reference.

Milledge WAR
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