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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Sunday, April 04, 2004

New York Mets

Acquired C Chris Widger and IF Wilson Delgado from the St. Louis Cardinals for OF Roger Cedeno.

Widger and Delgado have essentially no shot to make the Mets’ squad - this trade is solely about the Mets wanting to get rid of Cedeno.  Cedeno would have come in handy for the Cards last year, which says a lot more about the outfield depth at Busch than anything Cedeno can do.

Dan Szymborski Posted: April 04, 2004 at 03:01 AM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Chris Dial Posted: December 13, 2001 at 09:07 PM (#552171)
I like Cedeno. I think he can play CF. I think proper management can have a him steal 40-50 bases at a good success rate. I like: Cedeno Alomar Bonds Piazza Gonzalez Alfonzo Zeile Ordonez lineup. Or even Cedeno Alfonzo Alomar Piazza Gonzalez Payton/Shinjo Zeile Ordonez. That top 4 or 5 should score enough runs to catch a Castilla-led Braves squad.
   2. Robert Dudek Posted: December 14, 2001 at 08:51 AM (#552178)
At the beginning of the 20th century there were plenty of position players who were worse hitters than many pitchers, so Rey Ordonez is nothing more than a throwback (plus, he does hit better than almost all of the pitchers in the NL).

Now if someone were to make Alberto Castillo a number one catcher that might be a different story.
   3. NTNgod Posted: January 17, 2002 at 01:38 AM (#552781)
He got in legal trouble for beating his wife, I believe, and the feds were looking into deporting him
   4. NTNgod Posted: January 17, 2002 at 01:40 AM (#552782)
Dan, here's a link for you:
   5. Benji Posted: January 17, 2002 at 02:26 AM (#552783)
Useless signed him to see if he's really dumber than Roger Cedeno.
   6. Alan Posted: January 17, 2002 at 02:27 AM (#552784)
This is a pretty good signing. If healthy, Astacio will give good innings as a no. 2 or 3 guy in the rotation. If not, well then his 2003 option won't be picked up and it won't be the end of the world.
   7. Alan Posted: January 17, 2002 at 05:53 AM (#552786)
With all the fuss that's been made about this team's moves by the press, this may actually end up being the best one they make.
   8. scruff Posted: January 17, 2002 at 04:12 PM (#552789)
I hate the stinkin' Mets, but this is a great signing if Astacio's arm doesn't fall off.

This deal makes Cashman (Steinbrenner) look foolish. We gave Wells more $$ than Astacio ended up getting (2 years, $7 mil)? What the hell was he thinking? I'd take Astacio at double the cost of Wells right now. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, but he's 38 and coming off back surgery. Astacio is a much better risk for similar dough.

He's perfect for Shea. Just when you think Phillips is a moron he goes and pulls deals like this. This make the Mo Vaughn thing look a lot better. Vaughn and PAstacio is better than just Appier. I doubt they would have signed PAstacio if Appier was still with the squad, I don't see them bringing 7 guys into camp.

The question now is who loses out on the 5th starter gig? Maybe they aren't done yet, and they move Rusch or Chen, and someone is willing to take Zeile in the package?
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 17, 2002 at 04:21 PM (#552790)
Sorry if this is redundant, but the link wouldn't work for me, so I thought I'd summarize in case anyone else is having problems.

Astacio was involved in an altercation with his wife. He reached an agreement on a plea bargain, but he later rejected the deal due to potential trouble with INS. Astacio is a foreign national, and if he pled guilty as planned, he could have faced deportation proceedings as an undesirable. He stayed behind on a Rockies road trip to Montreal at one point, as his attorney advised him that if he crossed the border it could be viewed as voluntary deportation, and he might not be allowed to re-enter. I'm not sure where things stand right now.

If anyone is interested in reading about further felony-related road trip difficulties, there was a similar thing with Penguins wing Billy Tibbetts this year. Tibbetts was convicted of a sexual offense several years ago and spent time in jail. He resumed his hockey career and made the Penguins' roster, but was not permitted to travel into Canada on a road trip due to his criminal record.
   10. Big Ed Posted: January 18, 2002 at 06:55 PM (#552792)
Bob Probert had the same legal issue his first few years with the Blackhawks, couldn't play in Canada.

Maybe the White Sox could ship Carlos Lee over to the Mets for Chen? Don't think they would want Ziele, though.
   11. Repoz Posted: January 31, 2002 at 02:16 AM (#553651)
Other teams have grown weary of doing scabulations of Valentin's Mantlesque he's moved on to the Mets,hope they can operate these numbers.

   12. NTNgod Posted: January 31, 2002 at 04:23 AM (#553654)
Olperfesser, you mean like Angel Echevarria having an unreal spring last year? (and actually getting several mentions on SportsCenter)


Of course, he bounced back to earth once the games counted, as normally happens...
   13. Benji Posted: January 31, 2002 at 08:45 PM (#553655)
I'd rather have had Deivi Cruz, but unfortunately he isn't 35 yet so he could never interest Phillips. He will probably go north but theres little chance he'll help. Are there any other ex-Red Sox with serious injuries they can pick up?
   14. SnowBoy Posted: February 02, 2002 at 10:14 PM (#553659)
Unfortunately, the rumour is that Brian Daubach drinks only bottled water, Oracle.
   15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 06, 2002 at 01:39 PM (#555800)
I'm confused as to who's going where. The header says Phillies, but the comment says Expos, and I'm pretty sure that Strickland and Watson are both Montreal guys. Clarify?
   16. John Posted: April 06, 2002 at 01:45 PM (#555801)
It was the Expos. My question, however, is this: what does Phillips have left to deal in he New York system? It better be this year, eh?
   17. Dan Szymborski Posted: April 06, 2002 at 05:53 PM (#555803)
Whoops, I had Phillies on the brain when I wrote that.
   18. User unknown in local recipient table (Craig B) Posted: April 06, 2002 at 07:09 PM (#555804)
Fantastic pickup for the Expos, I'm very psyched. I do think it weird that F Robby pictures Chen in the pen, since Yoshii is only good for about 65-75 pitches before he starts getting shelled.
   19. . . . . . . Posted: April 06, 2002 at 09:45 PM (#555807)
I'm not sold on Chen, either.

He's moved through the entire NL East north of Florida, and no one seemed happy with him.

Attitude and personality can make a difference with a pitcher, and my suspicision is that the rumors are true and that theyre infringing upon Chen's development.

I saw him pitch a few times with New York, and he just seemed...sloppy. Some innings he was sharp, other innings he lost a few mph off of of the heater and he got lit up. If it clicks, he could be a good pitcher, but a win-now team isnt the place for that kind of prospect.
   20. Bart Posted: April 07, 2002 at 12:08 PM (#555809)
Here's a question.

How much did the roster crunch that Phillips has created have to do with overpaying (in talent given up) for a reliever? They are claiming every player that crosses waivers and then trying to pass them through waivers if that player is out of options. If he still has options, then he goes to Norfolk and stays on the 40 man. Latham, Tracy, Scutaro, Christensen. They claimed Lil Sarge last year and flipped him to the Birds for Bale. Did clearing spots on the 40-man by consolidating value come into the decision-making process?
   21. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 07, 2002 at 02:26 PM (#555810)
One correction. The Mets didn't get Matthews on waivers; they bought him from the Pirates for 500k. The Pirates were the ones who claimed him, back when the entire outfield was injured and they were trotting out Alex Hernandez and Tike Redman everyday.
   22. Mike Posted: April 07, 2002 at 08:47 PM (#555811)
So when is Chen going to the Marlins to complete his tour of the NL East? :-)
   23. Walt Davis Posted: April 07, 2002 at 09:09 PM (#555812)
who do the Mets have left as insurance for their starters? It's not likely to be an injury-free bunch.
   24. Alan Posted: April 07, 2002 at 09:23 PM (#555813)
Walt, I'd guess that Komiyama, Seo, and/or Roberts are the most likely choices to fill in the Mets rotation in case of injury. Probably none of them are as good an option as Chen, but none are really bad as 6th starters either.
   25. Alan Posted: April 08, 2002 at 06:10 PM (#555815)
Rapscallion, do you really think the Mets are going to go through the entire season without needing a replacement starter for at least a few weeks or so?
   26. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 06, 2002 at 09:05 PM (#556972)
Former lefty? As in, now a non-lefty?
   27. jwb Posted: June 07, 2002 at 04:05 AM (#556973)

Tatis was originally signed by the Mets,
   28. Jason Posted: June 07, 2002 at 05:17 PM (#556974)
<<I don't know what he is doing this year, nor do I know how he got from Columbus to Tokyo (released? sold?).>>

   29. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 03, 2002 at 11:32 AM (#557470)
Maybe you're looking at a different page than I am, but I see 2 Red Sox entries out of 19 on the page in total, and those two are the next in line to drop off when another move is added. 89% of the entries here are non-Red Sox content, the same number as the Yankees and Cubs. I think it's more a case of an obnoxious little twit making a pest of himself, again.

If you don't like how Dan handles these things, there's plenty of web space out there for you to set up your own damn blog, and if he doesn't feel the need to devote his recreational time to commenting on the pointless deckchair-shuffling at the back of the Mets' bullpen, that's his business.
   30. Benji Posted: July 03, 2002 at 07:44 PM (#557473)
Dan, this part of the blog is awesome! And Vlad the "deckchair shuffling" line is priceless. Stevie's Titanic be sinking fast.
   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 07, 2002 at 04:14 AM (#557477)
Feh. Hagen was cooler.
   32. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 07, 2002 at 04:15 AM (#557478)
   33. Alan Posted: July 08, 2002 at 04:26 AM (#557481)
And he's the best damn <a href="">car salesman<a> in the state of Georgia.
   34. Alan Posted: July 08, 2002 at 04:26 AM (#557482)

My link didn't work.
   35. Bob T Posted: July 14, 2002 at 11:39 PM (#557722)
I thought the latest theory was that Corey had an anxiety attack.

Hey Ronaldo had an anxiety attack/seizure before the 1998 World Cup final in France and he came back to be a big star four years later.

The moral of this: Corey should take up soccer.
   36. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 15, 2002 at 01:53 PM (#557724)
I liked it better when we were ignoring the Mets bullpen. Hope Roberts is OK, though.
   37. Toby Posted: July 25, 2002 at 07:29 PM (#557953)
If anything happens to Bruce Willis before 2/1/19, we need to be sure he's cryogenically kept around so that we can revive him in time.
   38. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 26, 2002 at 02:57 AM (#557960)
The Newark Bears signed Mark Leiter. How come you didn't cover that?
   39. Darren Posted: July 26, 2002 at 04:12 AM (#557961)
Pontiac Aztec, you are correct.
   40. Mike Piazza Posted: July 26, 2002 at 10:17 PM (#557965)
Did somebody say Ass-Tech?
   41. Benji Posted: July 31, 2002 at 08:13 PM (#558190)
Interesting. Reed has that funky motion and should be tough on righties. Red flag up on Middlebrook, because with the Pads' starting pitching uncertainty he had a good chance for the rotation and didn't make a splash. Pads dump some salary and have the odd quirk of 2 Bobby Joneses, even though Bobby M is as marginal as marginal gets. Is there more than meets the eye about Strickland here? Is he dead armed? Obviously Komiyama couldn't move to the #2 setup spot, so me thinks Scotty is about to be shut down. Anyway another trade of youth for age.
   42. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 31, 2002 at 09:58 PM (#558195) says the Mets just picked up John Thomson for nothing much of value.
   43. good_ol_gil Posted: July 31, 2002 at 11:09 PM (#558200)
"With Reed joining Strickland, the Mets may be the only team in the majors with TWO right-handed relief specialists now. In fact, those might be the only two right handed specialists in the majors period."

Heh, that's exactly what I thought. But Reed is actually getting lefties out this year after having a 1200 OPS against versus lefties last year.
   44. Eric Posted: August 01, 2002 at 03:04 PM (#558204)

Towers called him the key to the deal. He's a 23 year old outfielder that just got promoted to AA a few weeks ago. He has a decent line combined between St. Lucie & Binghamton--something like 280/370/460, and steals bases well (I think he's gone 35 out of 40 this year).
   45. Eric Posted: August 01, 2002 at 05:31 PM (#558206)

I agree. Jason Bay isn't a future star, but he has a chance to make an good 4th outfielder starting in 2004. The problem is, Phillips doesn't seem to understand the value of having inexpensive players fill roles that they are capable of. Bay wasn't one of their top prospects, but if you can get 2 or 3 years out of him as an extra outfielder cheap, that's a good thing, and probably better than having Steve Reed around for the rest of the year. This constant, dubious spending of money and organizational depth to paper over problems, even when they really aren't problems, and when you really aren't in contention, is depressing. At least they didn't do the rumoured 3 way deal that would have cost them Aaron Heilman for 2 months of Paul Byrd.
   46. good_ol_gil Posted: August 02, 2002 at 01:19 AM (#558209)
Sparkles, he did get a lot more for Embree than for Reed though. Towers is smart though, he knows he doesn't need these middle relievers at all so he gets decent prospets for them.
   47. Mike Piazza Posted: August 22, 2002 at 05:48 AM (#558532)
Hey, Jon, that sounds like a lot of fun! Mr. Met and KY Jelly make a great combo.
   48. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 23, 2002 at 01:47 AM (#558534)
Mr. Met is anatomically correct? Yet another piece of knowledge I'd like to tear from my screaming brain...
   49. Alan Posted: September 10, 2002 at 01:56 AM (#558760)
When Steve Phillips made this trade, he said that the 2 PsTBNL were going to make it look a lot better from the Mets' perspective. I liked the trade even without the additional players, so I'm not complaining, but I don't think Raul Gonzalez and Brady Clark were what most Mets fans were expecting when Phillips said the trade was going to look a lot better in the future. Brady Clark is a 29 year old 4th outfielder, and Raul Gonzalez is a 28 year old 4th outfielder. Both of these players look useful and worth spending 300 at bats on per season in a utility role, but neither are long term solutions. Of the first 2 players picked up in the deal: Andujar is looking like a disappointment but still has tools, and Feliciano looks like a good reliever/trade bait, a nice pickup for 2 months of Shawn Estes. I'm happy with the trade, but still am coming out a little disappointed.
   50. Benji Posted: September 10, 2002 at 07:45 AM (#558761)
As one of the Phillips bashers in here, I have to admit to very pleasant surprise that the Mets picked 2 or more servicable players for a mediocrity like Estes. What puzzles me is why the Reds did this. They were a young surprise team with a relatively low payroll, and these are the kind of guys that fill roles cheaply. I can't fathom any other team giving up 4 under 30 guys for a Shawn Estes, so nice job Steve. (still hope it's your last for the Mets).
   51. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 10, 2002 at 02:42 PM (#558763)
I'm unconvinced that Clark couldn't turn into a respectable starting corner outfielder, given a shot. He's better than any of the guys the Mets are currently running out there, with the possible exception of Burnitz (i.e. if this year was a Salmon-ish fluke)
   52. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 10, 2002 at 02:42 PM (#558764)
I'm unconvinced that Clark couldn't turn into a respectable starting corner outfielder, given a shot. He's better than any of the guys the Mets are currently running out there, with the possible exception of Burnitz (i.e. if this year was a Salmon-ish fluke)
   53. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 11, 2002 at 05:27 AM (#558766)
The point, such as it is, is that Clark is a better player than people think. Check out his numbers at AAA in regular time in 2000 and 2001. In the two seasons combined, he has 654 AB, roughly the equivalent of a full ML season as a starter. In that time, Clark demonstrated contact skills (.294 AVE), line-drive power (46 2B, 18 HR), good plate discipline (90 BB, 68 K), decent speed (18 SB, 10 CS), and better-than-adequate defense. [He did all this at Louisville, which is only a slight hitter's park (BP lists it as having a similar park factor to the new Comiskey in their 2k2 edition).] He's got a rep as an unselfish guy and a hard worker, and there isn't really any phase of the game in which he's deficient. What's not to like?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he grabbed a regular slot in the Mets' outfield and made it his own for the next four years.
   54. Cris E Posted: October 09, 2002 at 10:06 PM (#558956)
Does Alomar have the arm to swap spots with Alfonzo at 3b?
   55. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2002 at 03:30 AM (#558957)
It's not likely to matter; the Mets are going to lose Alfonzo. He's the best free-agent hitter on the market, the Mets are talking payrol restraint, and the Dodgers and Cubs (among others) are expected to give a hard push for him.
   56. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 10, 2002 at 03:30 AM (#558958)
Payroll, rather.
   57. User unknown in local recipient table (Craig B) Posted: October 10, 2002 at 01:17 PM (#558960)
I have a sinking feeling that Komiyama is going to wind up in the Expos bullpen in 2004. Given the Expo track record with Asian pitchers, that's not entirely a bad thing...
   58. Benji Posted: October 10, 2002 at 01:32 PM (#558961)
Did they get Baby Robbie that left-handed BP pitcher (hey, theres a spot for Rocker!) and his personal psychologist that room on the road too? I mean .266, 11HR and 53 whole RBI and he didn't get an extension?
   59. Mr. Crowley Posted: December 06, 2002 at 04:09 AM (#560174)
It's a trap!
   60. Dan Szymborski Posted: December 06, 2002 at 04:29 AM (#560175)
I should note that this is reportedly the deal.

I don't think the Braves were going to keep Glavine once they picked up Hampton. I like Maddux better anyway, even if his stamina's going down the crapper.
   61. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: December 06, 2002 at 05:22 AM (#560176)
What's this about the Mets' first-round draft pick being "protected"? I don't normally like to display my ignorance, but I have no idea what that's about. I've never heard of such a thing, and I even sort of follow the Mets (I lived in Queens for three years).

Please explain.
   62. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: December 06, 2002 at 05:27 AM (#560177)
Okay, I already found this in the Clutch thread:

The Braves will get the Cubs' and Mets' second rounders, since each of their first round picks will be within the first 15, and therefore cannot be lost as FA compensation.

Still, I'd never heard of this. Has this been true throughout the free agent compensation era? I'm kind of stunned I didn't know this.
   63. Rick A. Posted: December 06, 2002 at 04:19 PM (#560188)
Actually, wouldn't the Braves get the Phillies second round pick, since there first round pick would probably go to the Indians for Thome?
   64. True Blue n/k/a "DeJesusFreak" Posted: December 06, 2002 at 07:21 PM (#560193)
Aside from the fact that Glavine is (a) a finesse pitcher, (b) old, (c) signed for too many years, (d) overpaid, (e) signed for too many years, (f) old, and (g) a finesse pitcher, there's something else that gets me about this -- why do the Mets always go after pitching? Wouldn't it have made far more sense for them to throw the same money after Cliff Floyd?
   65. favre Posted: December 06, 2002 at 11:44 PM (#560198)
Here are the ten pitchers most similar to Tom Glavine through age 36 (courtesy of and what they did after age 36:

1) Vida Blue--out of baseball
   66. Bob T Posted: December 10, 2002 at 06:49 PM (#560442)
Trachsel does take a long time, but only when runners get on base and in that situation, there is 20-second rule to selectively enforce.
   67. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 10, 2002 at 10:19 PM (#560444)
The Mets might not bring John Thomson (AKA "the guy from the Rockies who sucked") back. They are reportedly looking at Scott Erickson to fill out their rotation, possibly in a deal for Ordonez.

-- MWE
   68. Walt Davis Posted: December 10, 2002 at 11:18 PM (#560445)
Hmmm...are those park-adjusted ERAs? If I remember right, DIPS ERA includes both DIPS magic and park adjustments. So comparing raw ERA to DIPS ERA isn't quite apples and apples. Or I could be dead wrong.
   69. Mr. Crowley Posted: December 16, 2002 at 08:52 PM (#560887)
It's a trap!
   70. Andere Richtingen Posted: December 16, 2002 at 09:19 PM (#560892)
Mike Stanton's K/IP, 1997-2002: 1.05, 0.87, 0.95, 1.10, 0.97, 0.56

Stanton's H/BIP, 1997-2002: 0.278, 0.327, 0.378, 0.368, 0.352, 0.294.

I don't know what it is about Stanton and some of those high H/BIP numbers, but his K rate dropped precipitously in 2002, and his hit rate dropped as well.

The drop in K rate makes me think he's a bad investment, and some luck in terms of hits hid the effect in 2002.
   71. Mr. Crowley Posted: December 16, 2002 at 11:37 PM (#560896)
Lefty One Out GuY

It's a trap, by the way.
   72. Mr. Crowley Posted: December 21, 2002 at 12:09 AM (#561581)
It's a trap!
   73. Bill Posted: December 21, 2002 at 01:04 AM (#561585)
Isn't Floyd too young for the Mets? Perhaps his injury history makes up for that. While he is obviously an upgrade, the Mets are still counting on a huge number of 34+ year old players. I don't see it. By the way, where were the Dodgers on this?
   74. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 21, 2002 at 03:12 AM (#561588)
This is a smart move, though Floyd of course won't be healthy now that he's signed with the Mets. Phillips really shouldn't have run over that gypsy woman...
   75. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 21, 2002 at 03:16 AM (#561589)
And how appropriate is it that Floyd's #1 age comp is Larry Walker?
   76. Bill Posted: December 21, 2002 at 04:44 AM (#561591)
Give them credit for trying on Nakamura. We'll take away the credit if they now panic and go for Joe Randa.
   77. John Posted: December 21, 2002 at 07:48 AM (#561594)
The Mets could use Floyd in CF. He played there very well back in the minors and still has most of his speed.

As to the Phillies and the Mets passing the Braves, I'm pretty sure the Phillies did today because their rotation looks better than the Braves now after the addition/subtraction of Millwood in return for 26 year-old prospect Estrada.

Honestly tell me that

Maddux, Ortiz, Byrd, Hampton, Marquis

is better than

Millwood, Wolf, Padilla, Myers, Duckworth

Philly even has Bud Smith waiting in the wings as 6th starter for someone to suck/get hurt. The best Atlanta can do is Jung Bong or killing their bullpen by taking Smoltz back into the rotation.

The Phillies offense was already better than Atlanta's and has upgraded extensively at 1B (Thome), 2B (Polanco vs. Anderson), and CF (Byrd vs. Glanville).

The Phillies also have the momentum and morale going into the season. The Braves as we once knew them are no more. They are looking to save cash so much they sent their 2nd best pitcher to their hottest division rival and let their 3rd best pitcher sign with another division rival.

The only way the Braves win is if Marquis AND Hampton have unexpectedly good seasons. I suppose they could also win if they'd actually play Marcus Giles at 2B, moved Chipper back to 3B, and traded someone for Brian Giles to play LF, but that's wishful thinking.....they'll probably end up with Castilla and Lockhart at 3B/2B.

P.S. why was Lockhart offered arbitration? Did the Braves actually think anyone else wanted him?
   78. Bill Posted: December 28, 2002 at 06:28 PM (#561941)
As Casey might have put it, if you don't have a shortstop you get a lot of grounders into left field. 'Nuf said.
   79. Bill Posted: December 28, 2002 at 09:09 PM (#561946)
Does anyone think that the replacement of Sanchez in the Bosox infield by Todd Walker might have an adverse effect on groundball-machine Derek Lowe?
   80. Bruce Markusen Posted: December 28, 2002 at 10:42 PM (#561948)
In the short term, which is what the Mets are most concerned about right now, Rey Sanchez is an improvement over Rey Ordonez. In the long term, Jose Reyes figures to be a BIG improvement over Ordonez.

Sanchez will hit around .275 to .280, is a good bunter (though that might not prove too useful as the No. 8 hitter), and is very good at executing the hit-and-run. Given his defensive abilities, I think the Mets will be happy with him as their starting shortstop in 2003. And if a best-case-scenario develops and Reyes shows he is ready this spring, Sanchez would be an excellent utility infielder.
   81. Eugene Freedman Posted: December 28, 2002 at 11:44 PM (#561949)
I am in New York for the holidays. Rey Sanchez is referred to as former Yankee Rey Sanchez. I was trying to explain to my uncle (by marraige) that Rey Ordonez was hardly the league average defender over the past three years and that Rey Sanchez might not be as flashy but he should reach at least 10% more balls than Ordonez next year, saving the Mets several runs on defense, while putting up worse than average numbers, but several steps above Ordonez offensively. He agreed with that calculation. But, boy explaining that Mo Vaughn is one of the worst firstbasemen in baseball sure didn't get very far.
   82. Bill Posted: December 29, 2002 at 12:33 AM (#561951)
A couple of points:

1. New Rey is not better than Old Rey offensively. (I know, this is like arguing whether WorldCom or Tyco is a worse scandal.) Old Rey has been deflated by the pitcher haven of Shea while new Rey has had the benefit of good home parks. Over the past three years, Old Rey's road OPS is 608, New Rey's is 607. Not a lot to choose from.

2. Old Rey was no kid but with New Rey the Mets get even older. The team is remarkably and consistently aged, even (and especially) at key defensive positions. It's hard to see how such a team can have many positive surprises. Unexpected injuries and declines seem much more likely.
   83. Benji Posted: December 29, 2002 at 02:45 AM (#561953)
Leon, Steve will find the highest paid 35+ old 3B out there for us.
   84. Dan Szymborski Posted: December 29, 2002 at 02:48 AM (#561954)
A lot of teams aren't happy with Catalanotto's arm and he's essentially off the market now anyway. Tatis seems a bit risky for the Mets since they're going for the division.

I expect the Mets to try to make a run at Randa.
   85. Bill Posted: December 29, 2002 at 03:45 AM (#561957)
Why does anyone have to "make a run" at Randa? Isn't he available to anyone willing to take his salary in exchange for a class A non-prospect?

Randa would be a perfect Met mediocrity, though a year younger than their norm. Judging by his road numbers and the Shea factor he would slot in at about 250/310/380.
   86. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 29, 2002 at 04:40 PM (#561963)
OPS+, last 5 years:

New Rey- 84, 78, 60, 62, 78
   87. Bill Posted: December 29, 2002 at 10:14 PM (#561967)
Given that New Rey's OBP on the road over the last three seasons is a whopping .297 I don't see him exceeding a 300 OBP at Shea. That would make him a substantial upgrade over Pedro Astacio at the plate, but pretty much on a par with Old Rey. All of which would mean absolutely nothing if the Mets actually had a corner infielder or center fielder who could contribute, but right now they look like they have 5 or 6 deadspots in the lineup, which is more than one would recommend.
   88. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 30, 2002 at 04:27 PM (#561972)
Why are you using three year home/road splits for Sanchez? He spent those three seasons in three different ballparks in both leagues. What was "home" in 2002 was "road" in 2000; how can you gather any useful information that way? Furthermore, what does his ability to hit in AL Central parks have to do with his ability to hit at Shea? His last five seasons have constituted an essentially neutral home park environment, and any deviation between home/road splits in that time is likely a result of 1) the normal and well-documented increase in a typical hitter's performance in the home portion of his schedule OR 2) slight random variation.

Sanchez may not be a good hitter, but he is nevertheless a substantially better hitter than Ordonez. Sanchez has the same power ability as Ordonez (none), and the same walk rate as Ordonez (poor), but he's got about 40 points of batting average on Ordonez and is a much better baserunner (more SB at a better rate of success). How can you say that the two players are offensive equals when Sanchez is better than Ordonez in some ways and worse than him in none? 30 additional bases a year is 30 additional bases a year, even if he gets them in sabermetrically unfashionable ways (singles and steals).
   89. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: December 30, 2002 at 04:30 PM (#561973)
Re: Reyes...

My biggest dream is that he'll be the next A-Rod...

My biggest nightmare is that he'll be the next Kelvin Chapman.
   90. Bill Posted: December 30, 2002 at 05:30 PM (#561975)
1. KC and Fenway are hitter's parks. Shea is and always has been a solid pitchers park. It's overly optimistic to think New Rey, advancing in age and moving to Shea, is going to hit .280 in 2003. At .265 or so he's not many singles ahead of Old Rey.

2. SB's? Uh, he stole 2 last year and 53 in his career, averaging about 6 per 500 AB's. And since when does Art Howe give a steal sign?

You could call that "substantial" if you want to, but it's weakening the language. If New Rey is "substantially" better than Old Rey, what adverbs would we have to invent to describe the difference between Mike Piazza and Joe Girardi? "Superhumongously"?
   91. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 30, 2002 at 11:35 PM (#561978)
A few park factors (hitting), as a rebuttal.
   92. Bill Posted: December 31, 2002 at 01:10 AM (#561979)
One of the hundreds of great things about baseball is that we get to have learned and amusing discussions about which of two mediocraties is the better player. I've never heard basketball fans getting into a lot of discussion on whether Travis Knight is better than Mark Pope.

Vlad is on to something in that last paragraph with the "lack of detriment" of Ordonez. Old Rey is such a putrid player in so many respects that just having him in uniform must create a bad aura.
   93. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: December 31, 2002 at 04:49 AM (#561980)
Knight's definitely better. ;)

I, too, find this inherently amusing on some level, especially since the discussion of offense completely ignores the main (if not only) benefit Sanchez brings to a team: his defense. Substantial offensive improvement or not, the Mets would be idiots to bank on a player like Sanchez as a starter if he didn't bring anything but his bat to the table. It's not even so much a discussion as to whether Pope's better than Knight as it is a debate over which one of the two is better at shooting the three...
   94. Bill Posted: December 31, 2002 at 05:14 AM (#561981)
Excellent analogy, Vlad. I suppose we should leave it at that. But I'll be sure to revive this thread if New Rey is hitting .230 around the all star break.
   95. Benji Posted: December 31, 2002 at 10:09 AM (#561984)
Forgot all about little Scutaro. I hope he gets a shot this spring, cause there appeared to be a little pop in his bat. If I was his agent, I'd tell Phillips he was really 35, and he had the nickname "BubbaTurk". Couldn't hurt!
   96. Mr. Crowley Posted: January 13, 2003 at 02:25 PM (#563147)
It's a trap!
   97. Dag Nabbit at Posted: January 13, 2003 at 02:56 PM (#563149)
If they're returning Cedeno to centerfield, remind me not to draft either D'Amico or Benitez in my fantasy league since both are flyballers. I don't think I would've wanted either anyway, but this can't help their value.
   98. Steve Posted: January 13, 2003 at 03:19 PM (#563150)
   99. Boileryard Posted: January 13, 2003 at 03:20 PM (#563151)
If they can get rid of Cedeno (or bench him), the Mets should have a decent cheap CF platoon. Timo has a career .781 OPS against righties and Shinjo has a career .770 against lefties.
   100. All you Need is Glove Posted: January 13, 2003 at 03:30 PM (#563152)
Maybe they should just give the front office to the monkeys
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