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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Thursday, July 07, 2005

Red Sox - DLed Foulke, Acquired Cora

Boston Red Sox - Placed P Keith Foulke on the 15-day DL; recalled P Scott Cassidy; acquired IF Alex Cora from the Cleveland Indians for IF Ramon Vazquez; DFAed OF Jay Payton.

The Indians save a bit of money here and as a nice side effect, make it a lot harder to lose starts for Jhonny Peralta.  As far as I can tell, Peralta’s great crime is not being mid-90s Vizquel with the glove.  Vazquez is an adequate backup and won’t push better players to the bench - I rather have Cora, but Vazquez isn’t as bad as he’s played this year.

The Red Sox now have a player who can push Mark Bellhorn a bit, but hopefully not all the way as Cora’s hit much worse than Bellhorn this year and is probably a bit overrated defensively (he’s good, but Izturis is the one that made the Dodger DP combo awesome last year).  Bellhorn should still get the majority of the playing time, unless that way-out-there Bellhorn-for-Boone rumor comes to pass (which would be a disaster for the Sox).

I wouldn’t have DFAed Jay Payton - the Sox obviously think a lot more of Adam Stern than I do.  Why dump a guy who’s been a decent role player before exploring the other options?  The Braves have little use for Stern and you can probably lose a lesser player to the Braves than Payton in return for getting to keep Stern.

2005 ZiPS Projection - Scott Cassidy
——————————————————————————————
Period     W   L   G GS   IP   H   ER HR BB SO   ERA
——————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05*  5   4 25   3   58   52   26   6 26 56 4.03
Rest ‘05     3   3 23   3   46   44   24   5 22 39 4.70
——————————————————————————————
* - Includes MLE

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Ramon Vazquez
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05 61   6   12   2 0   0   4   3 14   0 .197 .234 .230
Rest ‘05   161 19   40   7 1   1 16 20 30   1 .248 .335 .323
——————————————————————————————————
Total ‘05 222 25   52 16 1   1 20 23 44   1 .234 .309 .297

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Alex Cora
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05 146 11   30   5 2   1   8   5 18   6 .205 .250 .288
Rest ‘05   184 21   50   8 1   2 19 14 20   1 .272 .343 .359
——————————————————————————————————
Total ‘05 330 32   80 13 3   3 27 19 38   7 .242 .303 .327

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Jay Payton
——————————————————————————————————
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————
Actual ‘05 133 24   35   7 0   5 21 10 14   0 .263 .313 .429
Rest ‘05   216 31   61 10 1   7 29 18 23   0 .282 .340 .435
——————————————————————————————————
Total ‘05 349 55   96 17 1 12 50 28 37   0 .275 .330 .433

 

2005 ZiPS Projection - Adam Stern
——————————————————————————————————-
Period     AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG
——————————————————————————————————-
Actual ‘05*  75 15   22   7 0   2 13   7 11   2 .293 .350 .467
Rest ‘05   163 27   45   9 1   2 18 11 25   6 .276 .326 .380
——————————————————————————————————-
* - Includes MLE

Dan Szymborski Posted: July 07, 2005 at 06:24 PM | 93 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: July 07, 2005 at 06:54 PM (#1455747)
Wow, I had no idea that Alex Cora was having such a bad season.
   2. SM in DC Posted: July 07, 2005 at 06:54 PM (#1455748)
Is this the year of the DFA? It seem more useful/formerly useful/good/great players have been DFA'ed this year than ever before.
   3. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: July 07, 2005 at 06:55 PM (#1455753)
I was thinking the same thing, SM - it seems that teams are taking the idea of "sunk costs" much more seriously than they have in the past.
   4. bibigon Posted: July 07, 2005 at 06:59 PM (#1455768)
Payton, having been traded in the middle of a contract, had demanded a trade. He was apparently upset that he's not getting regular playing time.

Boston media is reporting that a trade of Payton is imminent.

That's why he was DFA'd. It's not just a Stern love affair.
   5. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:03 PM (#1455784)
DFAing Payton today allows you to free up a roster spot immediately; if you're acquiring prospects who won't need to be added on the 40 man roster, but the trade may take a few days to iron out the details, it makes sense to DFA Payton now so you can add another bat to the lineup before tonight's game.

ugh. what an ugly sentence.
   6. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:03 PM (#1455788)
Can Cora play SS? Seems like Vazquez would have an advantage over him there.
   7. Tony H. Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:06 PM (#1455803)
Yes, Cora can play SS, and quite well.

The Indians are going to do something else. Vazquez is going to Buffalo, so that leaves the Indians with only 3 backup position players: Bard, Hernandez, and Blake/Gerut.

Ernie said it in the dugout, and he is right. This is a prelude to something else for Cleveland.
   8. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:10 PM (#1455822)
Does Plaschke still complain about losing Cora?
   9. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:11 PM (#1455828)
Odd. There's gotta be a trade coming, I see no other reason to DFA Payton. He's a solid backup outfielder.
   10. Bob T Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:18 PM (#1455848)
Bill Plaschke bemoans the loss of everyone on the 2004 Dodgers.

He even wants Brett Mayne back.
   11. Toby Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:25 PM (#1455884)
Posted by Peter Gammons[\u] on July 07, 2005 at 03:20 PM

what levski is looking to delete the semicolon and insert two dashes and he will probably do it -- he is a special person
   12. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:27 PM (#1455895)
Behold Toby, the HTML God. :-) I am special though...
   13. Matthew Rich Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:37 PM (#1455937)
I'm actually going to miss Alex Cora. I really grew to like him a lot as a player during his short stay in Cleveland. I'd much rather they dealt Jose Hernandez, but I guess nobody wants him.

Vazquez is going to Buffalo and Cora's roster spot is being taken by Brian Tallet, which I think is kind of weird. Do they really think they'll need a 13th pitcher for this series against the Yankees?

Now that I look at the roster, I guess it came down to Tallet or Brandon Phillips for that last spot on the 25 man... I'm surprised they didn't pick Phillips. Or -- what I would have preferffed -- put Juan Gonzalez on the 60-day DL (or just cut him altogether) and bring up Gautreau or Abad or Ernie Young.
   14. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:37 PM (#1455938)
Heavy rumors in Bosotn about an imminent Payton trade, possibly today. Supposed to happen by the weekend at the very latest.

For who, I have no idea. I suppose Kolb is a possibility.
   15. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:40 PM (#1455951)
It's sad that KolBB would be an improvement for our pen.
   16. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:46 PM (#1455986)
Kolb, Battalico, Hasegawa...all these guys are possibilities. And sadly, all of them would make the pen better.
   17. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:51 PM (#1456009)
Right. Because the Sox desperately need to replace their suddenly ineffective (and now injured) soft-tossing closer with...a suddenly ineffective (but healthy!) soft-tossing closer.

I guess I am pretty bearish on the rest of the season at this point. I think the Sox could benefit a lot more from being pseduo-sellers as we near the deadline, as opposed to going for it again. Hell, they can probably jettison a few quality parts (e.g. Millar, Mueller, Payton, Wells) and still take the division.
   18. zempf Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:54 PM (#1456021)
I will not miss Alex Cora pinch-hitting late in close games.
   19. zempf Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:56 PM (#1456028)
I do agree that Juan Gone should be on the 60-day DL, though. I think that one at-bat is probably the only one he's going to see this year with the Indians, so might as well just cut bait now.
   20. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:58 PM (#1456038)
Right. Because the Sox desperately need to replace their suddenly ineffective (and now injured) soft-tossing closer with...a suddenly ineffective (but healthy!) soft-tossing closer.

I doubt any of the Kolb/Battalico/Hasegawa trio would close if they came to Boston. They'll use Timlin and <gulp> Schilling to close while Foulke is out. They are looking for someone to fill in the 7th-8th inning gaps.
   21. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 07:58 PM (#1456040)
This is a prelude to something else for Cleveland.

I hope it's a prelude to another Boston-Cleveland trade, say Mueller (Millar?) for Riske.
   22. Toby Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:00 PM (#1456061)
Ah well, you know, I previewed it and it worked fine there ...
   23. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:00 PM (#1456063)
Millar is the one asking for a trade. The Sox will hold on to Mueller for this season.

Riske would be a fine addition to the pen, but I suspect Cleveland won't have much interest in Millar.
   24. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:08 PM (#1456091)
Millar is the one asking for a trade. The Sox will hold on to Mueller for this season.

I know Millar has asked for a trade, but Mueller looks like the guy that would interest a lot of teams. Plus, with Youkilis already on the roster, he's expendable. I prefer Mueller to Youks, but I don't think it makes much sense to have them both on the roster.

I think Cleveland would like to upgrade at first base. Whether Millar is an upgrade on Broussard, though, is debatable.
   25. Psychedelic Red Pants Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:10 PM (#1456098)
I prefer Mueller to Youks, but I don't think it makes much sense to have them both on the roster.

Why? Youkilis appears to be better with bat and glove.
   26. Tanto Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:13 PM (#1456110)
Because the Sox desperately need to replace their suddenly ineffective (and now injured) soft-tossing closer with...a suddenly ineffective (but healthy!) soft-tossing closer.

The Klobb actually throws pretty hard. He just can't get it over the plate -- and when he does, he hangs it. He's been looking better lately, but everything's relative.
   27. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:13 PM (#1456112)
I think Cleveland would like to upgrade at first base. Whether Millar is an upgrade on Broussard, though, is debatable.

Exactly.

Plus, for a team that's as budget conscious for the Indians, I can't see them trading something useful and spending the extra money for the "upgrade" from Broussard to Millar.

They'd be more likely to just call up Garko and call it a day.
   28. Mikαεl Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:14 PM (#1456115)
Mueller's hitting record is definitely stronger than Youkilis', no matter how low you weight Youks' AAA struggles. I find them pretty similar glovemen.

But like aco, I don't see enough differentiation between Youkilis and Mueller to warrant keeping Mueller if he could help fill another hole.
   29. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:15 PM (#1456116)
as budget conscious for the Indians

Err, that should read "as the Indians".
   30. Mikαεl Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:16 PM (#1456120)
I also strongly support a home/road platoon of Mueller and Youkilis.

Mueller's splits are huge, and consistent with the observation that he is masterful at using the monster. On the road, he's a 700 OPS hitter.
   31. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:18 PM (#1456126)
Why? Youkilis appears to be better with bat and glove.

I think they're comparable defensively and Mueller is more of a known commodity with the bat. I can see Youkilis struggling to slug .400 over the course of the season. I like them both fine, but my main point is that there's no need to have both of them, especially when you've got Jeremi Gonzales on your 25-man.
   32. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:20 PM (#1456132)
The Klobb actually throws pretty hard.

Anyone who has ever played Goldeneye on the N64 will disagree strongly with that statement.
   33. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:30 PM (#1456170)
Gammons on EEI saying Payton's going to Oakland. He doesn't say for whom.
   34. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:33 PM (#1456182)
I could see Theo maybe prying away one of Minnesota's relievers for Mueller. They sure aren't getting much out of Cuddyer at the moment. That's the best match I see.

I don't know who would want Millar as anything more than a throw-in.
   35. Mike Webber Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:37 PM (#1456193)
If it is Oakland, is it for Kielty? Or a minor leauger? Of course with Oakland involved a three way deal is possible.
   36. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:43 PM (#1456207)
Gammons on EEI saying Payton's going to Oakland.

Wow. I loved Payton when he was coming up, but I can't see how this makes any sense for the A's unless they're trading Byrnes in the process. Payton has been brutal against righties for the past while, and the A's already have two corner OF who fit that description.
   37. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:49 PM (#1456221)
Gammons on EEI saying Payton's going to Oakland. He doesn't say for whom.

Could this mean Kotsay will be traded?
   38. Dan Fords cousin Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:51 PM (#1456225)
Gammons on EEI saying Payton's going to Oakland. He doesn't say for whom.

Could this mean Kotsay will be traded?


Is Payton any good in center or a reincarnation of Byrnes and Long?
   39. Honkie Kong Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:52 PM (#1456226)
I say, how about KolBB, Langerhans and Colon for Hanley and Payton? :)
   40. Walt Davis Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:54 PM (#1456230)
Gammons on EEI saying Payton's going to Oakland. He doesn't say for whom.

What would Oakland do with Payton? Unless Byrnes is being trade, then Payton could fill the Byrnes platoon role. Oh yeah, maybe Kotsay's being traded ... and Oakland has lived with Long and Singleton in CF before, so Payton can't be ruled out entirely ... but obviously it's not Kotsay for Payton.

I wouldn't have DFAed Jay Payton - the Sox obviously think a lot more of Adam Stern than I do. Why dump a guy who's been a decent role player before exploring the other options? The Braves have little use for Stern and you can probably lose a lesser player to the Braves than Payton in return for getting to keep Stern.

Assuming facts not in evidence ... or at least not in my brain. Who's Adam Stern and what do the Braves have to do with it?
   41. Danny Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:57 PM (#1456234)
UZR loves Payton. I could see the A's plugging him into CF and trading Kotsay to the Cubs.

I would guess it's Jairo Garcia going to Boston. I really hope it's not Cruz.
   42. chris p Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:57 PM (#1456235)
stern is a rule 5 pick from the braves.
   43. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:57 PM (#1456236)
Who's Adam Stern and what do the Braves have to do with it?

Rule 5 pick from the Braves. He's been DL'd with mysterious ailments for much of the season.
   44. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 08:58 PM (#1456237)
Adam Stern is a rule 5 pick up from the Braves. Just like DiNardo last year, Stern succumbed to a series of mysterious illnesses immediately upon arriving in Boston, starting with a sprained thumb, a sore heel, a bout of chickenpox and polio (despite being vaccinated for both), a runny nose, and apparently a severe case of constipation. So technically Stern hasn't had to be placed on the 25 man roster yet, and he hasn't had to be returned to ATL either. In all honesty, he probably would've been playing in the majors if he were in ATL right now, as I think he might've gotten called up to take Jordan's spot.
   45. Dan Fords cousin Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:00 PM (#1456240)
I don't see how Payton is worth Garcia (or Cruz). Isn't Payton a FA at the end of the year?
   46. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:01 PM (#1456247)
Jairo Garcia? Really? That much for a sucky Payton?
   47. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:07 PM (#1456253)
Payton was coming on. Had a .987 OPS in June.

I am eager to see the other shoe drop because all the Sox have done is spin their wheels so far.
   48. Danny Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:12 PM (#1456261)
UZR had Payton as the best defensive player in baseball last year (+34). He rated highly before that, as well. I'm not sure it's worth Garcia, but it's a helluva lot better than playing Byrnes in CF if they trade Kotsay.
   49. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:15 PM (#1456265)
Latest on our dearly departed closer...

Foulke expected to be out six weeks after having his left knee scoped.

I remain bearish. If the FO starts spinning off younger players to patch this leaking ship, I think they will regret it sooner rather than later.
   50. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:16 PM (#1456267)
Anyone who has ever played Goldeneye on the N64 will disagree strongly with that statement.

Worst. Gun. Ever.
   51. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:18 PM (#1456269)
Do we have to trade Kotsay?

</pitiful whine>
   52. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:18 PM (#1456270)
mattbert, I am holding out hope that BOS outbids AZ for Baez.
   53. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:19 PM (#1456271)
Foulke expected to be out six weeks after having his left knee scoped.

This team is really ####### dumb when it comes to injuries.
   54. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:21 PM (#1456275)
Ya better hope they don't scope Damon's head; he'd have to retire like Belle.
   55. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:21 PM (#1456278)
According to Boston Dirt Dogs (so you know it's definitely true...):

"Alex Cora Playing Shortstop and Batting Leadoff Tonight,
Adam Stern in Centerfield Batting 8th"
   56. Dan Fords cousin Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:22 PM (#1456279)
How much better is Payton than Charles Thomas in center? Is the difference worth anything more than Saarloos?
   57. Tanto Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:23 PM (#1456280)
Worst. Gun. Ever.

Exactly. Ever seen Kolb pitch?

As an aside, I'm so glad someone else got that reference. I would have felt like a total dork. Now I still feel like a total dork, but at least I have company.
   58. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:23 PM (#1456281)
J. Payton and B. Moss to Oakland

M. Kotsay to the Cubs

J. Garcia and R. Hill to Sox

My call.
   59. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:26 PM (#1456285)
Sully, your call remains unanswered.

And I get crap when I propose Tony Clark for Dustin Pedroia.
   60. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:31 PM (#1456295)
A redheaded Irish boy from Boston can dream, no?
   61. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:32 PM (#1456300)
And I get crap when I propose Tony Clark for Dustin Pedroia.
Did you actually propose that one?

I'd like to see Petagine move...
   62. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:33 PM (#1456303)
As an aside, I'm so glad someone else got that reference. I would have felt like a total dork. Now I still feel like a total dork, but at least I have company.

I actually liked Perfect Dark better than Goldeneye, but I think I'm in a minority on that one.
   63. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:34 PM (#1456305)
mattbert, I am holding out hope that BOS outbids AZ for Baez.

*shakes fist*

I'm hoping BOS outbids nobody for Huff and sends Millar packing in the transaction. Everyone deserves a dream...
   64. Dan Fords cousin Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:35 PM (#1456309)
J. Payton and B. Moss to Oakland

M. Kotsay to the Cubs

J. Garcia and R. Hill to Sox


Garcia and Kotsay for an OF prospect seem pretty expensive. Maybe if Pedroia is included instead of Moss, since the A's don't have any good prospects at 2B.
   65. 1k5v3L Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:38 PM (#1456317)
Nah, I never proposed Clark for Pedroia. I'm peddling Clark to the Mets right now. Sam is still holding out on Petit tho.
   66. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:44 PM (#1456331)
That bastard! :)
   67. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:45 PM (#1456332)
Jeez, Sully, are you a Red Sox fan or a Cubs fan? From Hendry's perspective, that's a Hill for Kotsay deal - no brainer.

Do the Cubs see Hill as a SP prospect or a reliever? Looks like he's done a bit of both in A-ball. Tons of Ks, plenty of walks...sounds like he'd fit right into the Mantei role. If you're into that sort of thing.
   68. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:48 PM (#1456341)
This is strange. Tonight is a "House Money" line-up even though it's the first game of the series, according to WEEI...

Cora (SS)
Mueller (3B)
Ortiz (DH)
Nixon (RF)
Millar (LF)
Olerud (1B)
Mirabelli (C)
Stern (CF)
Bellhorn (2B)
   69. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:50 PM (#1456344)
Between AA and AAA in 2005, Hill has 139 strikeouts, 62 Hits and 30 Walks in 90 innings. I'll take it.
   70. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 09:59 PM (#1456356)
Hill 2002-2004, all at various levels of A (tallied from CBS):

221 IP, 174 H, 297 K, 154 BB, 14 HR, 34 HBP

Hellooo, Rick Vaughn.
   71. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:09 PM (#1456372)
I guess I am pretty bearish on the rest of the season at this point. I think the Sox could benefit a lot more from being pseduo-sellers as we near the deadline, as opposed to going for it again. Hell, they can probably jettison a few quality parts (e.g. Millar, Mueller, Payton, Wells) and still take the division.

I don't see why you should be so bearish. They've had no Schilling (they'll at least have some in the 2nd half), the bullpen should be significantly better than net replacement level (as they were in the 1st half) in the 2nd half, and they've gotten crap from 1st base (an easily fixed problem). All this and they're 4 games up in the division.

I would be shocked to see the Sox move more than one of their Prospects (the Papelbon, Sanchez, etc. class), if any of them, unless they can swing a deal for a guy an big impact guy. I don't think we need to worry about Shoppach or Lester for a generic middle man.
   72. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:18 PM (#1456390)
I remain bearish. If the FO starts spinning off younger players to patch this leaking ship, I think they will regret it sooner rather than later.

While I do want to see the Sox repeat, I hope they don't mortgage the future.

It's raining in Baltimora.
   73. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:23 PM (#1456405)
I don't think we need to worry about Shoppach or Lester for a generic middle man.

I'd gladly do Shoppach for a generic middle man. I don't think he has much value.
   74. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:40 PM (#1456443)
I don't see why you should be so bearish.

Oh, I'm just here to maintain balance in The Force with our esteemed Perfesser Sunshine.

1. Schilling. Back on the team post AS break, back in the rotation by mid-August? How good will he be? And when?

2. The Bullpen. Sucks. Is the forecast that the relief work will improve in the 2nd half based on anything more concrete than the fact that they could scarcely be worse? I guess there's some merit to that line of reckoning, but an actual mechanism for improvement would be more comforting. Mike Myers is a highlight of the pen. That bears mentioning.

3. First base. Millar needs to go, but I don't have much confidence that the FO will make it so. His inertia with this team is simply amazing.

I don't see many compelling reasons to assume the team will realize substantial gains in any more than one of those three problem areas. And we're not even considering the guys who have performed well (Varitek, Damon, Timlin, Myers) who shouldn't be expected to continue apace.

It's not so much that I fear Theo mortgaging the future. Rather, I fear missed opportunities to build for some dynamite teams in 2006-2008 because this very flawed 2005 team happens to be in first place. Last year, I had no good answers for the question Why Not Us? This year, I have several.
   75. philly Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:43 PM (#1456451)
According to SoSH folks Theo said Payton wasn't being a team player in the clubhouse and a deal that he's been talking about for awhile is done, but may not be announced until the ASB.

Also a report that Remy said it was for someone on the DL.

Putting Gammons + Remy + Theo together you get... Payton for Chad Bradford.

I guess.
   76. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:50 PM (#1456462)
Eh, I don't get a ring.

Drat!!
   77. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:52 PM (#1456466)
So, Mattbert, you're saying that we're in trouble if everything that has already gone wrong, continues to go wrong, and the things that have gone right start to go wrong?

I like to be a wee bit more optimistic than that.
   78. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:53 PM (#1456467)

Can he catch? It sure looks like he can hit


The Red Sox are trying to convert him to catcher; he was an infielder in college. Undrafted FA out of Washington; 23 years old.
   79. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2005 at 10:54 PM (#1456473)
re: Otness.

Here's a profile from the Tacoma News.

For Otness, that place for now is catcher – a position he is trying to learn.

“They converted me with two days left in spring training,” said Otness, who played the position only a handful of times at UW.
...
Otness, who primarily played second base and third base at Washington, is still trying to pick up on all the nuances that go into playing catcher. He knows that it will take time.
   80. Mattbert Posted: July 07, 2005 at 11:26 PM (#1456571)
So, Mattbert, you're saying that we're in trouble if everything that has already gone wrong, continues to go wrong, and the things that have gone right start to go wrong?

Well, that's a pessimistic way of putting it, but, in a word, yes.

In aggregate, I think the offense will remain a big plus. Any declines (CF, C) should be balanced by modest improvement elsewhere (LF, 2B, 1B, SS). The bench will remain a strength if Cora hits at all and Payton is replaced by another suitable 4th OF.

The starting rotation is good, but less than reliable. Much depends on when Schilling can get back in there and how effectively he pitches once he returns to starting. A playoff rotation of Schilling/Clement/Arroyo/Wakefield is a lot more formidable than one that subtracts Schilling and adds Wells or Miller.

The bullpen is simply dreadful, and I don't expect it to improve without adding a couple good arms through trade. This is not a happy place to be given the volatility of middle relief performance. The quickest, most reliable way to fix the pen is to trade for quantities with inherently small sample sizes. Hopefully the FO can pull that off using redundant pieces (like the senior corner infielders) and not much of future value.
   81. NTNgod Posted: July 07, 2005 at 11:45 PM (#1456652)
and Payton is replaced by another suitable 4th OF.

Stern probably *IS* going to be the 4th OF. He has to spend pretty much the whole rest of the season on the ML roster to get enough consecutive days in, or else he'll be under Rule V rules next year...
   82. bibigon Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:09 AM (#1456755)


Stern probably *IS* going to be the 4th OF. He has to spend pretty much the whole rest of the season on the ML roster to get enough consecutive days in, or else he'll be under Rule V rules next year...


Actually, he'll be under Rule V rules regardless.

You need 90 days on the ML roster to become property of a new team. There are 88 days left in the season.

Unless postseason play counts or something.
   83. Mattbert Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:10 AM (#1456760)
Yes, that's the "obvious" answer. But as someone else pointed out today, Stern in 4th OF role means the Sox FO considers one or both of the following scenarios acceptable:

1. Trot Nixon facing LHP on a regular basis.
2. Kevin Millar playing RF on a platoon basis.

Daddy no like.
   84. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:22 AM (#1456804)
Payton, having been traded in the middle of a contract, had demanded a trade.

Is this statement correct? My understanding was that a player can become an FA at the end of the year if traded in the middle of a contract.

Stern probably *IS* going to be the 4th OF.

Stern, a leftie, does not make a good 4th OF for a team with Damon and Nixon. Would the Sox bring up Ambres as a 5th OF and release/trade Millar?

He has to spend pretty much the whole rest of the season on the ML roster to get enough consecutive days in, or else he'll be under Rule V rules next year...

How did the Sox manage to keep DiNardo? Was it because his DL time came after he was on the 25-man roster?
   85. NTNgod Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:30 AM (#1456833)
My understanding was that a player can become an FA at the end of the year if traded in the middle of a contract.

Correct, Payton can't *demand* squat until the conclusion of this season. He supposedly threw a tantrum last night, which caused the FO to want him gone ASAP.

Stern, a leftie, does not make a good 4th OF for a team with Damon and Nixon.
True, but with all the hoops they've jumped through for Stern, he isn't going back to ATL if the Braves don't agree to some sort of trade.

How did the Sox manage to keep DiNardo?
I believe he spent 90 straight days on the ML roster, which qualifies.
   86. Danny Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:33 AM (#1456848)
Is there actually a rule prohibiting players from being traded while on the DL? I know that's a popular belief, but I kind of remember seeing it refuted before. Anyone know?
   87. Dolph Lungren's Super Friend Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:36 AM (#1456868)
Perfect Dark was infinitely better than Goldeneye
   88. NTNgod Posted: July 08, 2005 at 12:50 AM (#1456931)
Is there actually a rule prohibiting players from being traded while on the DL?

It used to require special permission from the comissioner's office, but that requirement seems to have been relaxed/removed the last few years....
   89. bibigon Posted: July 08, 2005 at 05:24 AM (#1457422)
Sean McAdam has an article up saying it's Payton for Bradford.
   90. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 08, 2005 at 03:02 PM (#1457865)
Bradford for Payton is just fine. It looks like Kotsay is gone somewhere.

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