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Transaction Oracle — A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen Monday, May 23, 2005Reds - DFAed GravesCincinnati Reds - Designated P Danny Graves for assignment. Great news for the Reds. Not only does it get rid of a guy who simply can no longer pitch (though as a poster in an earlier thread noted, they really should have taken great pains to trade him before this had become obvioius), but it also shows that the Reds seem to be serious at starting to trim off the dead wood from the team. Hopefully, Rich Aurilia is next. Don’t look for Milton or Wilson to get cut, though. While I hated the Milton signing at the time, comparing it to Uncle Carl strangling a prostitute in terms of utility to the team, even I didn’t think Milton would be this bad. He could still have a league-average season and it would be nutty to cut him less than 2 months into a 3-year contract. Same goes for Wilson. Wagner is the favorite to wind up as the closer. He’s been groomed to be the closer since he was drafted and shot through the system and is the only Red reliever other than Kent Mercker to actually be getting the opposition out. |
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1. TraderdaveAnd why am I so worried he's the next Cubs closer?
I look forward to getting some saves out of Wagner. Too bad I didn't know this was coming last night.
Very well put, Dan. I agree completely.
And why am I so worried he's the next Cubs closer?
Yikes!
Graves was pretty good back in the day, and he's still probably the best player ever from Vietnam.
And why am I so worried he's the next Cubs closer?
I've actually been impressed by Hendry's resolve in not signing the likes of Graves. Perhaps he knows it would only make a bad situation worse. I'm not a big fan of Ryan Dempster, but Graves makes him look like Dennis Eckersley.
Graves, the Reds' career saves leader, gave up five ninth-inning runs in Cleveland's 9-2 victory Sunday at Great American Ball Park, then was booed and taunted by fans as he left the field.
Graves didn't react to the fans as he walked off the field and went to the end of the dugout to get a drink. When he returned to the end by the bat rack, a man in one of the high-priced seats next to the dugout yelled at him. Graves yelled back and made an obscene hand gesture.
With this organization, it wouldn't shock me if it wasn't flipping off the crowd that got Graves DFA'd.
I don't think this is a particularly good idea -- Graves is ineffective against both RH and LH hitters. His three-year splits (per ESPN.com):
RH: .286/.318/.475
LH: .284/.338/.471
Graves is a proven veteran closer. Get him, and the pennant is yours.
Your pal,
Larry
Why is that?
Last year, they dumped Haynes when he wasn't worth keeping around; this year, they did the same with Jiminez. These three guys are the only 3 under Lindner that they've DFA'd with big money contracts - there is no history of them eating contracts just because of attitude.
I haven't seen it mentioned in any of the stories about his being designated for assignment, but in a very close play at the plate in one of last week's losses to the Mets, Jiminez neither slid nor attempted to knock the ball out of Piazza's glove. He just sort of ran into the tag in a Jeremy Giambi-like fashion. Howie Rose couldn't stop talking about Jiminez' apparent lack of desire to make a play for three innings. Might have been the camel's back-breaking straw.
I would still love it if the Yanks took a shot with Jimenez and wiped out Rey Sanchez or at least had him in Columbus as insurance.
Danny Graves said it best: "When you don't want to try and you don't want to try to get better, there are guys in the minors who do. That attitude can become a cancer. D'Angelo didn't have the attitude that I'm going to help the team. If a guy isn't going to try to contribute, why keep him around?"
from Reds Glad x-Sox player gone
Even so (and putting aside the Jimenez issue), there is a history of the team signing players for reasons having virtually nothing to do with their ability, see, e.g., Rose, Pete, Jr., as well as inking players to long-term deals based more on perceived fan-friendliness than ability. See, e.g., Larkin, Barry and Casey, Sean.
He was good. I'm not saying this caused anything, but IMO he became a lot less effective around the time he was moved into the starting rotation. He's been pretty awful for the past 2-3 years at least, but I'm sure someone with access to the stats will prove me wrong on this.
He had an ERA+ of 102 last year, so at least he wasn't awful. And wasn't he injured the year before that?
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he's either hiding an arm injury, or just plain too screwed up to get people out. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trade for him unless I could get him for really, really cheap, but if he gets released I could see a few teams (Chicago? Atlanta?) signing him to a minor-league deal to see if he can get straightened out. He wasn't great last year, and he was never as good as the "Reds career saves leader" tag would have you believe, but I wouldn't have expected him to be this awful.
For a closer, that's pretty terrible. Of the 30 pitchers listed by BB-Ref as their team's closer in 2004, only four had a worse ERA+ than Graves (Urbina, Affeldt, Herges and Chacon).
All you have to do is change the "Reds career saves leader" to match whatever Reds pitcher you are talking about and it would be just as appropriate.
ie. He wasn't great last year, and he was never as good as the "Reds Opening Day Starter" tag would have you believe, but I wouldn't have expected him to be this awful (Paul Wilson).
What do you expect? Actually, they really didn't say that either. Quoting your article:
O'Brien said that Graves' encounter with the fan wasn't the main reason for the move.
I'm not saying that the encounter was the only reason Graves was DFA'd -- they may have been considering it for a while -- but I'm also recognizing that it might have been the triggering factor. Who knows?
Negative view: "I can't believe they'd release a guy just because he gave the finger to some fan."
Positive view: "They didn't want him so they jumped on the chance to dump him when he gave the finger to some fan."
After the Jiminez release I'd tend toward the latter, but that might be because I own Lopez and Wagner.
I think Graves needed to get out of Cincy to have any chance of reviving his career.
Not unless the Mazzone kool-aid is really a steroid slurry that brings back velocity.
I always liked Graves. I hope he gets it back together for another club. If I had been in Cincinnati as long as he had I would be glad for a change of scenery.
Mazzone's magic hasn't worked on Kolb, and they seem to me that Graves and Kolb are very similiar pitchers. Texas or Milwaukee might be good ideas.
Wonder if Graves has been dogging it because of how bad the Reds have been this year? It'd be pretty annoying to see him pull a Vince Carter and suddenly regain some velocity with a new team.
But Kolb wasn't off track before he came to the Braves was he? He had a rough second half last year, but I wouldn't say he was a project when he came to the Braves.
Well, it's like the relationship between personality and performance at any job--you can flip off fans if your ERA is 1.76. They hold it against you a little more at 7.76. It was a factor, I'm sure, in that any boss who sees an employee who is not performing AND doing things that irritate people/hurt the company's image is going to consider saying "get your azz out of here." However, given Graves' popularity, long-term status, and his contributions, I think DFAing him was excessive at this point. He got emotional; he messed up and he said "I'm sorry." Move him to middle relief and maybe try to trade him a for a Grade-C prospect later. It's not like he is going to cost the Reds the pennant, and they have to pay him anyway.
Trade Terry Adams for Graves! Oh. Wait... OK, just pick up Graves and send Terry Adams to the bottom of the Delaware in cement shoes.
Your pal,
Larry
PS - Kansas City, you now have a new enemy. Me.
LOL
He'd be a decent project for a team like Atlanta to take on. He is only 31 and a sinkerballer doesn't need 92+ mph velocity to be effective if he can recapture his movement and control. Not a great bet, but worth a flyer IMHO.
He did wear down in the second half, which wasn't all that shocking considering his previous arm problems.
Mazzone has fixed his K rate this year, with 16 in 18.2 IP after tonight, which is why all the Braves fans are touting Kolb for the Cy Young this year :P
(from the games I've seen Kolb this year, he's got an entirely different pitch selection than Maddux had him throwing)
Wagner's pitched the last three days, so hopefully it's just that he couldn't go tonight.
I don't understand how else he goes from closer to jobless with no stop at middle relief in between.
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