White Sox - Claimed Rios
Chicago White Sox - Claimed OF Alex Rios off waivers from the Toronto Blue Jays
Now that’s an unusual waiver claim. Unlike the Randy Myers waiver deal in the 90s, Rios is not an ancient player in steep decline and the White Sox actually wanted him, rather than simply preventing someone else from getting him. The Blue Jays clearly feel differently, but there’s no reason to think that the Rios contract is some albatross at this time given the outfielder’s excellent defensive skills.
Rios is unlikely to maintain his 14 runs/150 number as a full-time centerfielder (given that he’s at +13 in right), but he should still be an above-average centerfielder. His bat isn’t superstar quality, but you add solidly above-average offense in center, an above-average glove, modest, but high success stealing, and the fact that he’s still on the sunny side of 30 and there’s nothing wrong with his contract.
The White Sox are almost the perfect destination for Rios. The park will make his hitting stats look even prettier, the team is in that sweet zone where every marginal win is incredibly valuable, and centerfield is one of the team’s biggest organizational weaknesses. There’s even the side effect of reducing the chances of Scott Podsednik being a regular starter ever again.
A coup for Kenny Williams. Someone should tell J.P Ricciardi what happens to the people on the wrong side of a coup.
ZiPS Projection - Alex Rios
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Year AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG OPS+
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2009FIN 626 79 169 36 3 20 80 46 110 26 .285 .340 .462 100
2010 592 88 169 36 5 22 83 48 105 26 .285 .340 .475 112
2011 572 81 158 34 5 19 75 44 100 20 .276 .330 .453 103
2012 566 80 158 32 5 19 73 43 101 21 .279 .332 .454 104
2013 559 80 156 33 4 19 73 42 98 20 .279 .331 .454 104
2014 551 77 151 32 4 18 70 42 97 19 .274 .328 .445 101
2015 540 74 146 30 4 17 66 41 96 17 .270 .324 .435 98
———————————————————————————————————————
Dan Szymborski
Posted: August 11, 2009 at 01:25 PM |
82 comment(s)
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1. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3288703)Damn.
His isolated patience is usually between .040-.050. Isolated power has been in decline for each of the last four seasons. The Cell may give that one a bump, but the Skydome has not been helpful in that regards. He may be a high percentage basestealer, but has earned some local notoriety in Toronto with other heads-down baserunning blunders (failed to tag from third on deep flies at least twice this season).
Ricciardi has made a few financial mistakes. With any luck (I say as a Jays fan) he will be let go by the Jays sometime between next Tuesday and this November. This addition-by-subtraction will make his replacement's job that much easier.
Given that he's clearly on the way out anyway (and he'd have to be an idiot to not know it), he should've resigned and saved a shred of dignity if he was ordered to do this. J.P. is no Felix Steiner.
He was above-average offensively for a starting rightfielder in 2006, 2007, and 2008 and he's objectively been 10-15 runs a year above average with the glove.
Rios 2006 - 120 OPS+
Rios 2007 - 122 OPS+
Rios 2008 - 111 OPS+
So, how well do you think the average RF hits?
Once baserunning (good) and defense (excellent) are considered, he's worth the contract. Besides, the only reason that the Jays payroll is limited is because ownership has suddenly decided to cheap out on the team - this organization (which owns the stadium, concessions, and TV and radio affiliates) could easily afford a $100M+ payroll if it wanted to.
EDIT: I would like to take a moment to compliment Dan on his obvious intelligence.
Obviously it's not exactly the same, but the Rios / Wells boondoggle reminds me a lot of the A-Rod / Park fiasco in TEX, where the team is "forced" to give up the better (not inexpensive) player because the guy w/ the true problem contract can't be dumped.
As much as I defended Ricciardi's earlier decision to not trade Roy, I'm forced to agree with Dan. If they kept Rios, then they could make a plausible claim to other teams that they were looking to compete next year, keeping the bidding price for Roy high. Now, with Rolen and Rios gone (one in a straight dump, and one in a real trade for young talent), that's a lot harder to sell.
The organization has screwed itself in so many ways over the last month.
Hm. I don't know about that, unless Ricciardi doesn't care if he works in MLB again. GMs are ordered to cut payroll all the time, whatever the cost. He needs to show that he's willing to do that.
I don't think he's clearly on the way out. They're not going to pay two GMs next year. I will bet you something with no value that JP's back enxt year.
And I still think that keeping Halladay was the right move.
It's better to keep Roy, in terms of both on field performance and PR. However, given the way that they're dumping players for nothing, is there any reason to believe that they intend to keep Roy either?
If that's the choice, yeah, but once you start dumping above-average players, you're pot-committed, so to speak. You want to try to win now or try to win later, not simply limp forward now and later.
This ain't a gossip column.
This.
As a Jays fan, I just want clear and consistent messages about the direction of the team, whether verbal or implied. Right now, between Godfrey ("I am planning to sit down and talk to Roy about an extension") and Ricciardi ("Roy won't sign an extension and wants to test free agency"), shipping Rios for no return but keeping Halladay, etc. I just want to ignore this team for a couple of years then check back to see who they hire to pick up the pieces.
And on the off-chance that I learn how to fly by flapping my arms really hard, I'm starting my own airline.
They've been giving guys like Millar, Bautista, Inglett and so on regular playing time. They've obviosly had a spot open for Snider, if they wanted to give it to him. There was no need at all for them to give Rios away to open up one.
Dogged by rumors about his sexuality, this longtime A-list BTF regular wants to turn his dimpled back on his days in the closet. Unfortunately, his exotic (and equally A-list) paramour thinks that public disclosure is "a trap", so their forbidden lust remains a secret.
Sure, but now Cito can use Snider without having to take playing time from Millar or Inglett!
Bautista would be a nice platoon partner for Snider and I don't mind keeping him around.
Does dignity put food on the table?
Rios 1.1 (a tick higher than Pods by RAR)
Podsednik 1.1
Dye 0.6
Quentin 0.2
Quentin can certainly attribute much of his ineptitude to injuries, but Pods and Dye simply aren't very good (Pods sucks at everything while Dye is just a gawd-awful defensive RF). Even if Rios hits right at league average (OPS+ 100), he'll represent an upgrade over what the White Sox had in their OF stable.
I can certainly understand the arguments for letting him go, but I don't see any real negative for the White Sox. Yes, he costs a lot of money, but above-average CFs aren't cheap and certainly aren't readily available. If KW didn't spend this money on Rios, who was he supposed to spend it on? Cameron? Abreu? Dye/Thome?
And there goes Dan's Hall of Fame chances. "Gave evasive answers in a public forum."
Not on the positional side of things.
No chance. Rogers has money, and would not want to open the books on the Jays.
He's not here to talk about the past.
Somebody in the Jays' organization is a moron.
Absolutely none of this makes sense. Getting something for Rios before the trade deadline would have been a snap. Heck, I can't imagine getting something from the Sox at this point would have been that hard. From a money and talent standpoint, trading Halladay for one of the rumored packages makes more sense.
My best guess is a pissing contest of sorts. The owners told Ricciardi to move Halladay (or otherwise trim payroll). Ricciardi didn't get an offer he liked and so didn't. The owners, not pleased, forced Ricciardi to dump Rios.
I'm not sure why folks are praising Kenny Williams. Putting in a waiver claim was a no-lose no-brainer. It locked out Detroit and, "worst-case scenario," he got a good player on a decent contract. It's possible there will be repercussions this off-season if the Sox weren't prepared to take on this contract (although I think Thome comes off the books and Dye is an option so presumably they can fit Rios under current payroll if they want) but, even so, it just puts him in the position of having to trade Rios.
Something like this should bring an end to the gentlemen's agreement about August waiver claims. The "idiots" here are the Royals, A's, Ms, etc. who didn't put in claims on Rios.
Somebody? After the debacle that this season has degenerated into, I'd question whether there's anybody in the organization who isn't a moron.
I think it's because a lot of us (myself included) have given Kenny Williams a lot of crap in the past and now have to give him his due. There were a lot of other teams that could have put in the waiver claim and didn't, so I don't buy this as a practical no-brainer. Between Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, the White Sox have the biggest balls of any management team in baseball. They have more than earned my grudging respect, if not admiration.
Hard to blame them for not wanting to take on 12 million a year. Sure they could trade him in the off-season, but if he broke a leg before then it would become a very expensive pump & dump scheme.
What is it with the Blue Jays and no-trade clauses?
I'm confused. If you have a no-trade clause, can you be waived and claimed? Doesn't that defeat the ostensible purpose of a no-trade clause (so that you have locational security)? Or is it just that Rios is accepting the "trade" to Chicago, and this is just not an interesting part of the story?
But yes, someone with a no-trade clause can block these sorts of waiver claims.
Have you got a reference for that? Everything I have read says that it exists now, but changes in 2011. That would change a lot of the complexities here.
Sorry, I don't have anything written down, but I heard Rios's agent on the radio this morning. He was asked this very question, and said that Rios has no no-trade protection at the moment.
EDIT: His phrasing was that Rios's no-trade protection kicks in when he's past his arb-eligible years.
Have you got a reference for that? That sounds dubious to me.
Again, no link, but Ken Rosenthal researched the question. Waiver claims are treated as trades when it comes to no-trade clauses.
I found this article which seems to clear up whether a no trade clause is a no waive clause as well:
- Burnett walks thanks to a favourable contract clause.
- Wells locked up for way too much money. Overbay locked up after a career year.
- Rios signed to a contract that is now deemed such a burden that he is given away for nothing.
I think it's fair to say that the Jays have signed a series of poor contracts in recent years. If, in fact, the Wells and Rios issues were owner-mandated, then my biggest issue with this team is the fact that I don't know who's running it and I'm not sure they do, either.
Not a boilerplate NTC, no they can't. A waiver claim is just that, and the NTC doesn't apply. Now what they *can* do is block it if they're pulled back and the teams negotiate a deal. I imagine that's why you saw the Jays take nothing (couldn't take anything because he'd have blocked) and why some teams passed, because they couldn't negotiate a player for the Jays to pay a little of the salary.
(EDIT) If it's in the NTC, the ycan, as Craig notes.
I love the MSM at times, I really do.
CF Wells
RF Inglett
DH Ruiz
...
I ####### hate my team. I really do.
Who the hell is Ruiz?
The Jays have a story on their website that Marcum and Janssen will probably finish the season in AAA.
Where exactly were the "idiotic" Mariners supposed to play Rios? They already have 4 good outfielders and they spent the #2 pick in the draft on another one. Among the 4 that they already have on the roster, 3 of them are great defenders and the 4th is their top prospect. None of them have nearly as much value if they are DHing and Rios also has much of his value concentrated in his defensive abilities. It doesn't seem smart to use a defensive specialist who makes $12 million a year at DH. Sure, their designated hitters this year have been garbage and Rios may have been a slight upgrade for this season, but Rios has an extremely long contract and is not a good fit at the DH spot long-term.
But on a more serious note...after the depression of the last 24 hours it's nice to be reminded that Marcum is still on the team.
At age 22 he hits .309/.395/.482 in rookie ball
So clearly the next season the Reds.....keep him in rookie ball all year where he shockingly hits .381/.467/.584.
For some reason they felt this deserved a promotion, so they allowed him to stay at A ball until he was 27, where he hit .290/.372/.496 over 4 years
He's never OPSed below .850 in any of his AA or AAA seasons since. Not saying he's a major league player, but he must be absouletly terrible at every aspect of baseball except hitting or something...or has a bad habit of sleeping with manager's daughters.
Ruiz dinger!
First of many as a Jay I am sure
Thanks, but no thanks. I happen to think Rios isn't as good as his salary. I'd rather just go with a mix of Ryan Sweeney and Rajai Davis for a million combined.
Just because it didn't cost players to get Rios doesn't mean he was free. Teams aren't idiots for not claiming him.
This is starting to resemble the Expos all over again...
This is not in any way like what being an Expos fan was like. This is a bummer, yes; the two experiences have nothing in common. I was there.
(That said, without some sort of intervention it may well turn into an Expos situation over time.)
this organization (which owns the stadium, concessions, and TV and radio affiliates) could easily afford a $100M+ payroll if it wanted to
If it wanted to lose money in baseball operations, sure it could. That was what the last bunch were doing. But they would be losing money.
Anyone else note the excerpt of the "Project Teen Canada" survey that Colby Cosh posted? Very instructive regarding the future of baseball in Canada. I would not have guessed that MLB would be the #6 professional league in terms of interest for Canadian youth, or #5 in Toronto.
A Jon Link, Dale Mollenhauer, CJ Retherford?
Did Seattle even have a chance to put in a claim. They have a better record than the Sox, so the Sox have first choice, no?
However, I suspect that Rios has been shopped pretty extensively before being waived, and I just assume that whatever PTBNL one thinks is equivalent to the waiver price (twenty-five grand, right?) was never offered. Everyone in baseball knows Rogers has ordered substantial payroll cuts, and that JP is under orders to shed payroll.
That's interesting. Does he post? What's his handle? A student talked me into subscribing the National Post so now I'm a semi-regular reader.
Another good point.
(OK, just checked the standings; still surprised, tho.)
That's what I heard
I noticed him when he hit .349/.405/.669 at Reading and thought, WTF...
His career AA mark is: .310/.377/.569 (1379 PAs)
and .311/.373/.550 in AAA (1065 PAs) (Compare that to Petagine: .322/.431/.577 in 2000+ PAs)
over 1000 minor league games in total
entering 2009 ZIPs projected him at .267/.318/.465, which is probably fair, which means he is a MLB caliber hitter, but has little to no value as a 1b/dh
Well a projection like that certainly isn't going to push a slugger like Millar out the door!
106PA .147/.162/.216 4 runs, 3 RBI, -4 OPS+ in 29 games
It's downright ugly at this point.
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