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Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Tuesday, August 11, 2009

White Sox - Claimed Rios

Chicago White Sox - Claimed OF Alex Rios off waivers from the Toronto Blue Jays

Now that’s an unusual waiver claim.  Unlike the Randy Myers waiver deal in the 90s, Rios is not an ancient player in steep decline and the White Sox actually wanted him, rather than simply preventing someone else from getting him.  The Blue Jays clearly feel differently, but there’s no reason to think that the Rios contract is some albatross at this time given the outfielder’s excellent defensive skills.

Rios is unlikely to maintain his 14 runs/150 number as a full-time centerfielder (given that he’s at +13 in right), but he should still be an above-average centerfielder.  His bat isn’t superstar quality, but you add solidly above-average offense in center, an above-average glove, modest, but high success stealing, and the fact that he’s still on the sunny side of 30 and there’s nothing wrong with his contract.

The White Sox are almost the perfect destination for Rios.  The park will make his hitting stats look even prettier, the team is in that sweet zone where every marginal win is incredibly valuable, and centerfield is one of the team’s biggest organizational weaknesses.  There’s even the side effect of reducing the chances of Scott Podsednik being a regular starter ever again.

A coup for Kenny Williams.  Someone should tell J.P Ricciardi what happens to the people on the wrong side of a coup.

ZiPS Projection - Alex Rios
———————————————————————————————————————
Year   AB   R   H 2B 3B HR RBI   BB   SO SB   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS+
———————————————————————————————————————
2009FIN 626   79 169 36   3 20   80   46 110 26 .285 .340 .462   100
2010   592   88 169 36   5 22   83   48 105 26 .285 .340 .475   112  
2011   572   81 158 34   5 19   75   44 100 20 .276 .330 .453   103
2012   566   80 158 32   5 19   73   43 101 21 .279 .332 .454   104
2013   559   80 156 33   4 19   73   42   98 20 .279 .331 .454   104
2014   551   77 151 32   4 18   70   42   97 19 .274 .328 .445   101
2015   540   74 146 30   4 17   66   41   96 17 .270 .324 .435   98
———————————————————————————————————————

 

 

Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 01:25 PM | 82 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3288703)
Hey Dan, what did you think of the Peavy trade?
   2. Paul D(uda) Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:10 PM (#3288704)
Szym, I have to think that this was directed by the managements/owners of the team and not Riccardi. I didn't see the press conference, but apparently Riccardi did not look happy in announcing the decision.
   3. Toolsy McClutch Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:12 PM (#3288705)
I'm pretty upset about this, I may give up my Jays lovedom for a few years. And I'm convinced I won't be apologizing for JP for much longer.

Damn.
   4. Spivey Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:13 PM (#3288709)
Just because this is a good deal for CWS doesn't mean it is a bad one for Toronto. I'm not sure anyone was offering a prospect, and this kind of money is hard to give a guy that is only marginally worth it now and likely won't be worth it in a few years when you're also giving Wells dumpsters of money for a low budget team.
   5. rawagman Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3288711)
I think this transaction is more of a win-win than anything. Rios does have value for the White Sox (maybe not $60+ million, but value nontheless) while he was close to useless for the Blue Jays. He would not be put in CF in Toronto unless Vernon Wells was hurt or resting. He does not and will not hit well enough to be a plausible starter in RF, let alone a RF making over $12M annually on a team with a very limited payroll.
His isolated patience is usually between .040-.050. Isolated power has been in decline for each of the last four seasons. The Cell may give that one a bump, but the Skydome has not been helpful in that regards. He may be a high percentage basestealer, but has earned some local notoriety in Toronto with other heads-down baserunning blunders (failed to tag from third on deep flies at least twice this season).
Ricciardi has made a few financial mistakes. With any luck (I say as a Jays fan) he will be let go by the Jays sometime between next Tuesday and this November. This addition-by-subtraction will make his replacement's job that much easier.
   6. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3288717)
Szym, I have to think that this was directed by the managements/owners of the team and not Riccardi. I didn't see the press conference, but apparently Riccardi did not look happy in announcing the decision.

Given that he's clearly on the way out anyway (and he'd have to be an idiot to not know it), he should've resigned and saved a shred of dignity if he was ordered to do this. J.P. is no Felix Steiner.
   7. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:20 PM (#3288722)
He does not and will not hit well enough to be a plausible starter in RF, let alone a RF making over $12M annually on a team with a very limited payroll.

He was above-average offensively for a starting rightfielder in 2006, 2007, and 2008 and he's objectively been 10-15 runs a year above average with the glove.
   8. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:23 PM (#3288728)
He does not and will not hit well enough to be a plausible starter in RF


Rios 2006 - 120 OPS+
Rios 2007 - 122 OPS+
Rios 2008 - 111 OPS+

So, how well do you think the average RF hits?

let alone a RF making over $12M annually on a team with a very limited payroll.


Once baserunning (good) and defense (excellent) are considered, he's worth the contract. Besides, the only reason that the Jays payroll is limited is because ownership has suddenly decided to cheap out on the team - this organization (which owns the stadium, concessions, and TV and radio affiliates) could easily afford a $100M+ payroll if it wanted to.

EDIT: I would like to take a moment to compliment Dan on his obvious intelligence.
   9. The Essex Snead Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3288735)
He does not and will not hit well enough to be a plausible starter in RF, let alone a RF making over $12M annually on a team with a very limited payroll.

Obviously it's not exactly the same, but the Rios / Wells boondoggle reminds me a lot of the A-Rod / Park fiasco in TEX, where the team is "forced" to give up the better (not inexpensive) player because the guy w/ the true problem contract can't be dumped.
   10. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3288736)
And if the Blue Jays were going to simply raze the team, there was no excuse for not trading Halladay for one of the packages - his trade value can only go down.
   11. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:31 PM (#3288743)
And if the Blue Jays were going to simply raze the team, there was no excuse for not trading Halladay for one of the packages - his trade value can only go down.


As much as I defended Ricciardi's earlier decision to not trade Roy, I'm forced to agree with Dan. If they kept Rios, then they could make a plausible claim to other teams that they were looking to compete next year, keeping the bidding price for Roy high. Now, with Rolen and Rios gone (one in a straight dump, and one in a real trade for young talent), that's a lot harder to sell.

The organization has screwed itself in so many ways over the last month.
   12. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:40 PM (#3288760)
Given that he's clearly on the way out anyway (and he'd have to be an idiot to not know it), he should've resigned and saved a shred of dignity if he was ordered to do this. J.P. is no Felix Steiner.

Hm. I don't know about that, unless Ricciardi doesn't care if he works in MLB again. GMs are ordered to cut payroll all the time, whatever the cost. He needs to show that he's willing to do that.
   13. Paul D(uda) Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:42 PM (#3288762)
Given that he's clearly on the way out anyway (and he'd have to be an idiot to not know it), he should've resigned and saved a shred of dignity if he was ordered to do this. J.P. is no Felix Steiner.

I don't think he's clearly on the way out. They're not going to pay two GMs next year. I will bet you something with no value that JP's back enxt year.

And I still think that keeping Halladay was the right move.
   14. karkface killah Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:44 PM (#3288767)
Kenny Williams: F*cking A!
   15. Toolsy McClutch Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3288776)
I think it's a no brainer that keeping Roy is better for the team (on multiple levels) than keeping Rios.
   16. Zoppity Zoop Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:52 PM (#3288781)
Zim, since we're on the subject of jobs, there's a rumor going around that you turned down an analyst job with a team. Is this true and what team was it?
   17. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:53 PM (#3288782)
I think it's a no brainer that keeping Roy is better for the team (on multiple levels) than keeping Rios.


It's better to keep Roy, in terms of both on field performance and PR. However, given the way that they're dumping players for nothing, is there any reason to believe that they intend to keep Roy either?
   18. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:57 PM (#3288787)
I think it's a no brainer that keeping Roy is better for the team (on multiple levels) than keeping Rios.

If that's the choice, yeah, but once you start dumping above-average players, you're pot-committed, so to speak. You want to try to win now or try to win later, not simply limp forward now and later.
   19. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 11, 2009 at 02:58 PM (#3288791)
Zim, since we're on the subject of jobs, there's a rumor going around that you turned down an analyst job with a team. Is this true and what team was it?

This ain't a gossip column.
   20. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:06 PM (#3288805)
If that's the choice, yeah, but once you start dumping above-average players, you're pot-committed, so to speak. You want to try to win now or try to win later, not simply limp forward now and later.


This.

As a Jays fan, I just want clear and consistent messages about the direction of the team, whether verbal or implied. Right now, between Godfrey ("I am planning to sit down and talk to Roy about an extension") and Ricciardi ("Roy won't sign an extension and wants to test free agency"), shipping Rios for no return but keeping Halladay, etc. I just want to ignore this team for a couple of years then check back to see who they hire to pick up the pieces.
   21.  Hey Gurl Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:12 PM (#3288813)
I'm not a fan of this, not by a long shot -- but on the off-chance the money goes back into the team it might not be a disaster. Rios was never going to be the CF in Toronto, and it opens up a spot for Travis Snider who is 21 and mashing in AAA. So IF they use money to bring in an SS or a C, then meh.
   22. Johnny Tuttle Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:14 PM (#3288817)
I can't believe this is how the Rogers' ownership is going to turn out.
   23. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3288820)
I'm not a fan of this, not by a long shot -- but on the off-chance the money goes back into the team it might not be a disaster.


And on the off-chance that I learn how to fly by flapping my arms really hard, I'm starting my own airline.

Rios was never going to be the CF in Toronto, and it opens up a spot for Travis Snider who is 21 and mashing in AAA.


They've been giving guys like Millar, Bautista, Inglett and so on regular playing time. They've obviosly had a spot open for Snider, if they wanted to give it to him. There was no need at all for them to give Rios away to open up one.
   24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:21 PM (#3288826)
"This ain't a gossip column."

Dogged by rumors about his sexuality, this longtime A-list BTF regular wants to turn his dimpled back on his days in the closet. Unfortunately, his exotic (and equally A-list) paramour thinks that public disclosure is "a trap", so their forbidden lust remains a secret.
   25.  Hey Gurl Posted: August 11, 2009 at 03:28 PM (#3288832)

They've been giving guys like Millar, Bautista, Inglett and so on regular playing time. They've obviosly had a spot open for Snider, if they wanted to give it to him. There was no need at all for them to give Rios away to open up one.


Sure, but now Cito can use Snider without having to take playing time from Millar or Inglett!

Bautista would be a nice platoon partner for Snider and I don't mind keeping him around.
   26. strummer Posted: August 11, 2009 at 04:18 PM (#3288900)
Given that he's clearly on the way out anyway (and he'd have to be an idiot to not know it), he should've resigned and saved a shred of dignity if he was ordered to do this.


Does dignity put food on the table?
   27. SuperGrover Posted: August 11, 2009 at 05:40 PM (#3288998)
Even at Rios's current offensive performance (12 points below his career OPS+ heading into this season) he's more valuable than any White Sox OF according to Fan Graphs:

Rios 1.1 (a tick higher than Pods by RAR)
Podsednik 1.1
Dye 0.6
Quentin 0.2

Quentin can certainly attribute much of his ineptitude to injuries, but Pods and Dye simply aren't very good (Pods sucks at everything while Dye is just a gawd-awful defensive RF). Even if Rios hits right at league average (OPS+ 100), he'll represent an upgrade over what the White Sox had in their OF stable.

I can certainly understand the arguments for letting him go, but I don't see any real negative for the White Sox. Yes, he costs a lot of money, but above-average CFs aren't cheap and certainly aren't readily available. If KW didn't spend this money on Rios, who was he supposed to spend it on? Cameron? Abreu? Dye/Thome?
   28. Ron Johnson Posted: August 11, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3289013)
This ain't a gossip column.


And there goes Dan's Hall of Fame chances. "Gave evasive answers in a public forum."
   29. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: August 11, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3289132)
I don't get this even from a penny-pinching standpoint. You have to get warm bodies in return if you have any intention of selling a few tickets. They could have traded Rios for low-A prospects in the off-season. They could have had Josh Fields if they were willing to throw in a million bucks or so. To think that Rios had no value is just dumb. The only way I can see any sense in this is if the Jays were loaded with prospects or if they are expecting to file for bankruptcy protection in the off-season.
   30. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 07:13 PM (#3289133)
The only way I can see any sense in this is if the Jays were loaded with prospects


Not on the positional side of things.

or if they are expecting to file for bankruptcy protection in the off-season.


No chance. Rogers has money, and would not want to open the books on the Jays.
   31. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 11, 2009 at 07:17 PM (#3289136)
Zim, since we're on the subject of jobs, there's a rumor going around that you turned down an analyst job with a team. Is this true and what team was it?

He's not here to talk about the past.
   32. Walt Davis Posted: August 11, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3289219)
And I'll apologize to all those people who kinda freaked out when the Rios on waivers story came out ... and I called them silly for worrying about such silliness.

Somebody in the Jays' organization is a moron.

Absolutely none of this makes sense. Getting something for Rios before the trade deadline would have been a snap. Heck, I can't imagine getting something from the Sox at this point would have been that hard. From a money and talent standpoint, trading Halladay for one of the rumored packages makes more sense.

My best guess is a pissing contest of sorts. The owners told Ricciardi to move Halladay (or otherwise trim payroll). Ricciardi didn't get an offer he liked and so didn't. The owners, not pleased, forced Ricciardi to dump Rios.

I'm not sure why folks are praising Kenny Williams. Putting in a waiver claim was a no-lose no-brainer. It locked out Detroit and, "worst-case scenario," he got a good player on a decent contract. It's possible there will be repercussions this off-season if the Sox weren't prepared to take on this contract (although I think Thome comes off the books and Dye is an option so presumably they can fit Rios under current payroll if they want) but, even so, it just puts him in the position of having to trade Rios.

Something like this should bring an end to the gentlemen's agreement about August waiver claims. The "idiots" here are the Royals, A's, Ms, etc. who didn't put in claims on Rios.
   33. Adam M Posted: August 11, 2009 at 07:59 PM (#3289243)
#24 is brilliant. Vlad, you are consistently one of my favorite posters on BTF. For what it's worth.
   34. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:02 PM (#3289252)
Somebody in the Jays' organization is a moron.


Somebody? After the debacle that this season has degenerated into, I'd question whether there's anybody in the organization who isn't a moron.
   35. Russ Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:22 PM (#3289285)

I'm not sure why folks are praising Kenny Williams. Putting in a waiver claim was a no-lose no-brainer. It locked out Detroit and, "worst-case scenario," he got a good player on a decent contract. It's possible there will be repercussions this off-season if the Sox weren't prepared to take on this contract (although I think Thome comes off the books and Dye is an option so presumably they can fit Rios under current payroll if they want) but, even so, it just puts him in the position of having to trade Rios.


I think it's because a lot of us (myself included) have given Kenny Williams a lot of crap in the past and now have to give him his due. There were a lot of other teams that could have put in the waiver claim and didn't, so I don't buy this as a practical no-brainer. Between Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, the White Sox have the biggest balls of any management team in baseball. They have more than earned my grudging respect, if not admiration.
   36. Craig in MN Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3289292)
I don't recall seeing this mentioned anywhere, but it affect's how I view this deal. According to Cots, Rios has a no trade clause, which limits their ability to move him at all. They might have been able to move him earlier and got something in return. They might have been able to trade him this offseason or next year and get something in return. But both of those ideas hinge on his willingness to be traded. A waiver dump is the only sure fire way they could move him, and that put them in a very weak position to negotiate. Kenny Williams took advantage of that to get what he wanted.
   37. Swedish Chef Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3289302)
The "idiots" here are the Royals, A's, Ms, etc. who didn't put in claims on Rios.

Hard to blame them for not wanting to take on 12 million a year. Sure they could trade him in the off-season, but if he broke a leg before then it would become a very expensive pump & dump scheme.
   38. Swedish Chef Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:35 PM (#3289309)
According to Cots, Rios has a no trade clause

What is it with the Blue Jays and no-trade clauses?
   39. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:35 PM (#3289310)
According to Cots, Rios has a no trade clause, which limits their ability to move him at all.

I'm confused. If you have a no-trade clause, can you be waived and claimed? Doesn't that defeat the ostensible purpose of a no-trade clause (so that you have locational security)? Or is it just that Rios is accepting the "trade" to Chicago, and this is just not an interesting part of the story?
   40. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:38 PM (#3289317)
Rios's no-trade clause doesn't kick in until 2011, so it doesn't apply here.

But yes, someone with a no-trade clause can block these sorts of waiver claims.
   41. Craig in MN Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:57 PM (#3289340)
Rios's no-trade clause doesn't kick in until 2011, so it doesn't apply here.

Have you got a reference for that? Everything I have read says that it exists now, but changes in 2011. That would change a lot of the complexities here.
   42. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3289342)
Have you got a reference for that?

Sorry, I don't have anything written down, but I heard Rios's agent on the radio this morning. He was asked this very question, and said that Rios has no no-trade protection at the moment.

EDIT: His phrasing was that Rios's no-trade protection kicks in when he's past his arb-eligible years.
   43. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: August 11, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3289346)
But yes, someone with a no-trade clause can block these sorts of waiver claims.

Have you got a reference for that? That sounds dubious to me.
   44. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3289355)
Have you got a reference for that?

Again, no link, but Ken Rosenthal researched the question. Waiver claims are treated as trades when it comes to no-trade clauses.
   45. Craig in MN Posted: August 11, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3289366)
Thanks Dewey. That's good enough for me.

I found this article which seems to clear up whether a no trade clause is a no waive clause as well:

A player with a no-trade clause who is claimed on Major League waivers must be pulled back if the player’s no-trade clause allows him to block a deal to the claiming club. However, the player may waive the no-trade clause and join the claiming club.
   46. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: August 11, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3289402)
- Frank Thomas & BJ Ryan released.

- Burnett walks thanks to a favourable contract clause.

- Wells locked up for way too much money. Overbay locked up after a career year.

- Rios signed to a contract that is now deemed such a burden that he is given away for nothing.

I think it's fair to say that the Jays have signed a series of poor contracts in recent years. If, in fact, the Wells and Rios issues were owner-mandated, then my biggest issue with this team is the fact that I don't know who's running it and I'm not sure they do, either.
   47. Jeff K. Posted: August 11, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3289406)
But yes, someone with a no-trade clause can block these sorts of waiver claims.

Not a boilerplate NTC, no they can't. A waiver claim is just that, and the NTC doesn't apply. Now what they *can* do is block it if they're pulled back and the teams negotiate a deal. I imagine that's why you saw the Jays take nothing (couldn't take anything because he'd have blocked) and why some teams passed, because they couldn't negotiate a player for the Jays to pay a little of the salary.

(EDIT) If it's in the NTC, the ycan, as Craig notes.
   48. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 11, 2009 at 10:10 PM (#3289424)
Pretty sure you're wrong, Jeff, as that link above notes.
   49. JPWF13 Posted: August 11, 2009 at 10:20 PM (#3289438)
I just noticed that Yahoo is linking to an article calling this a shrewd move by Toronto, and asking what on earth was Williams thinking (the article assumes that William must have thought the Jays would pull Rios back)- stating that Rios is too expensive, does not fill any Whitesox need, and has nowhere to play on the 2010 Sox...

I love the MSM at times, I really do.
   50. TrueNorth Posted: August 11, 2009 at 10:30 PM (#3289445)
This is starting to resemble the Expos all over again...
   51.  Hey Gurl Posted: August 11, 2009 at 11:33 PM (#3289506)
LF Lind
CF Wells
RF Inglett
DH Ruiz

...

I ####### hate my team. I really do.
   52. RJ in TO Posted: August 11, 2009 at 11:46 PM (#3289517)
DH Ruiz


Who the hell is Ruiz?
   53. Good cripple hitter Posted: August 11, 2009 at 11:57 PM (#3289527)
Ruiz is a career AAAer who made his MLB debut with the Twins last year at the age of 30.

The Jays have a story on their website that Marcum and Janssen will probably finish the season in AAA.
   54.  Hey Gurl Posted: August 11, 2009 at 11:58 PM (#3289528)
I don't know.
   55. JoeHova Posted: August 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM (#3289543)
The "idiots" here are the Royals, A's, Ms, etc. who didn't put in claims on Rios.

Where exactly were the "idiotic" Mariners supposed to play Rios? They already have 4 good outfielders and they spent the #2 pick in the draft on another one. Among the 4 that they already have on the roster, 3 of them are great defenders and the 4th is their top prospect. None of them have nearly as much value if they are DHing and Rios also has much of his value concentrated in his defensive abilities. It doesn't seem smart to use a defensive specialist who makes $12 million a year at DH. Sure, their designated hitters this year have been garbage and Rios may have been a slight upgrade for this season, but Rios has an extremely long contract and is not a good fit at the DH spot long-term.
   56. Greg K Posted: August 12, 2009 at 12:06 AM (#3289552)
.320/.392/.584 line in Las Vegas...this "kid" might be for real!!

But on a more serious note...after the depression of the last 24 hours it's nice to be reminded that Marcum is still on the team.
   57. Greg K Posted: August 12, 2009 at 12:12 AM (#3289577)
Randy Ruiz looks like he has an odd minor league career.

At age 22 he hits .309/.395/.482 in rookie ball
So clearly the next season the Reds.....keep him in rookie ball all year where he shockingly hits .381/.467/.584.

For some reason they felt this deserved a promotion, so they allowed him to stay at A ball until he was 27, where he hit .290/.372/.496 over 4 years

He's never OPSed below .850 in any of his AA or AAA seasons since. Not saying he's a major league player, but he must be absouletly terrible at every aspect of baseball except hitting or something...or has a bad habit of sleeping with manager's daughters.

Ruiz dinger!
First of many as a Jay I am sure
   58. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 12, 2009 at 12:17 AM (#3289592)
The "idiots" here are the Royals, A's, Ms, etc. who didn't put in claims on Rios.

Thanks, but no thanks. I happen to think Rios isn't as good as his salary. I'd rather just go with a mix of Ryan Sweeney and Rajai Davis for a million combined.
   59. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: August 12, 2009 at 12:20 AM (#3289609)
I would take Rios and his salary over Sweeney and Davis for a million bucks, but I realize that $12M is not an immaterial amount of the A's and they may choose to use it somewhere else.

Just because it didn't cost players to get Rios doesn't mean he was free. Teams aren't idiots for not claiming him.
   60. J. Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:04 AM (#3289841)
Two things.

This is starting to resemble the Expos all over again...

This is not in any way like what being an Expos fan was like. This is a bummer, yes; the two experiences have nothing in common. I was there.

(That said, without some sort of intervention it may well turn into an Expos situation over time.)

this organization (which owns the stadium, concessions, and TV and radio affiliates) could easily afford a $100M+ payroll if it wanted to

If it wanted to lose money in baseball operations, sure it could. That was what the last bunch were doing. But they would be losing money.

Anyone else note the excerpt of the "Project Teen Canada" survey that Colby Cosh posted? Very instructive regarding the future of baseball in Canada. I would not have guessed that MLB would be the #6 professional league in terms of interest for Canadian youth, or #5 in Toronto.
   61. Paul D(uda) Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:13 AM (#3289852)
That's a very very interesting site JLAC.
   62. mex4173 Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:16 AM (#3289853)
Having recently been, or still being a Canadian youth, depending on how you define it, that would certainly jive with what I've personally encountered for sport popularity.
   63. MM1f Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:18 AM (#3289854)
They couldn't even get the ChiSox to give up some semi-prospect as a thrown in?
A Jon Link, Dale Mollenhauer, CJ Retherford?
   64. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:27 AM (#3289859)
Where exactly were the "idiotic" Mariners supposed to play Rios?


Did Seattle even have a chance to put in a claim. They have a better record than the Sox, so the Sox have first choice, no?
   65. J. Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: August 12, 2009 at 04:02 AM (#3289877)
Correct, Misirlou. If it hasn't changed in the last few years, Rios gets offered to every AL team in order of record and then to every NL team in order of record.

However, I suspect that Rios has been shopped pretty extensively before being waived, and I just assume that whatever PTBNL one thinks is equivalent to the waiver price (twenty-five grand, right?) was never offered. Everyone in baseball knows Rogers has ordered substantial payroll cuts, and that JP is under orders to shed payroll.
   66. J. Lowenstein Apathy Club Posted: August 12, 2009 at 04:03 AM (#3289878)
Colby's good people, Paul. He's also a Primate.
   67. Gaelan Posted: August 12, 2009 at 05:06 AM (#3289900)
Colby's good people, Paul. He's also a Primate.


That's interesting. Does he post? What's his handle? A student talked me into subscribing the National Post so now I'm a semi-regular reader.
   68.  Hey Gurl Posted: August 12, 2009 at 05:26 AM (#3289901)
His handle, I believe, is Colby Cosh
   69. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 12, 2009 at 06:20 AM (#3289907)
I haven't seen him around in a while.
   70. JoeHova Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:04 PM (#3290162)
Did Seattle even have a chance to put in a claim. They have a better record than the Sox, so the Sox have first choice, no?

Another good point.
   71. The Essex Snead Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:20 PM (#3290177)
The Mariners have a better record than the White Sox? The hell?

(OK, just checked the standings; still surprised, tho.)
   72. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:24 PM (#3290183)
The Mariners have the lowest team ERA in the American League. They have trouble scoring runs, but they're good when the other team is batting.
   73. JPWF13 Posted: August 12, 2009 at 03:49 PM (#3290212)
He's never OPSed below .850 in any of his AA or AAA seasons since. Not saying he's a major league player, but he must be absouletly terrible at every aspect of baseball except hitting or something...


That's what I heard
I noticed him when he hit .349/.405/.669 at Reading and thought, WTF...

His career AA mark is: .310/.377/.569 (1379 PAs)
and .311/.373/.550 in AAA (1065 PAs) (Compare that to Petagine: .322/.431/.577 in 2000+ PAs)
over 1000 minor league games in total

entering 2009 ZIPs projected him at .267/.318/.465, which is probably fair, which means he is a MLB caliber hitter, but has little to no value as a 1b/dh
   74. Greg K Posted: August 12, 2009 at 08:38 PM (#3290725)
but has little to no value as a 1b/dh

Well a projection like that certainly isn't going to push a slugger like Millar out the door!
   75. Jim Wisinski Posted: August 19, 2009 at 02:37 AM (#3297608)
The "Does a no-trade clause mean a player can block a waiver claim?" issue came up with some other player recently. Might have been Brian Giles since he refused the trade to the Red Sox but the Padres were trying to shed payroll. I definitely remember though that the rule was the Padres (or whatever team it was) couldn't just place him on waivers to let someone else claim him, circumventing his ability to block trades.
   76. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 21, 2009 at 06:41 PM (#3301057)
This thread is probably dead, but mark my words - Rios's best years are behind him.
   77. yankeesruinedbaseball Posted: August 23, 2009 at 10:59 PM (#3302867)
Cold Prosimian you are absolutely right. Alex Rios sucks!!! J.P despite all of his critics has made a series of good moves recently. First good move was not trading Roy Holliday for undervalued offers. 2nd good move was fleecing the Reds giving them Rolen and his contract for 2 of their best pitching prospects. 3rd great move was allowing the bonehead Kenny Williams to claim Alex Rios and his entire 60 million contract. The Whitesox are now stuck with Rios for years to come and this move could eventually cost KW his job. To the critics that say you could of waited till the offseason and traded Rios for a prospect, Perhaps yes they could of kept Rios on Roster and paid him the remaining 2 million on his contract, 2 million a drop in bucket, and then traded Rios in off season to get a few prospects in return yes but the other team would of also wanted Toronto to pay a huge part of Rios salary in return as part of the trade unlike the dupe Kenny Williams that agreed to pay the Alex Rios contract in full.
   78. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 19, 2009 at 04:13 AM (#3326537)
As of September 18th, Alex Rios current stats with Chicago are:

106PA .147/.162/.216 4 runs, 3 RBI, -4 OPS+ in 29 games

It's downright ugly at this point.
   79. Good cripple hitter Posted: September 19, 2009 at 04:24 AM (#3326539)
Alex Rios' month with the White Sox has been more damaging than Vernon Wells' entire season with the Jays, according to Fangraphs. In fact, Rios' value with the Sox is -5.8 million, making him the 8th least valuable player in baseball (with the Sox only). It really is staggering.
   80. Tripon Posted: September 19, 2009 at 04:26 AM (#3326540)
Is Rios depressed as hell right now or what?
   81. Toolsy McClutch Posted: September 20, 2009 at 12:47 AM (#3326939)
And Vernon seems reborn, thought he did the same act last September as I recall.
   82. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: September 20, 2009 at 01:05 AM (#3326945)
Things are getting u-g-l-y. He's gotta be pressing to suck this hard. Going forward I think the frustrations and the contract that come with Rios being Rios is going to be a trainwreck in a town like Chicago. This might get Swisher-like in a real hurry.

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