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Primate Studies
— Where BTF's Members Investigate the Grand Old Game

Monday, October 14, 2002

Streams of Consciousness

PrimerChat Episode I:  The Phantom Benes

Last night, since it’s clear that none of us ever leave our
computers, a bunch of Primer contributors (and a couple extra people
who are too lazy to write for us!) got together for a pow-wow on the
game in-progress.  Most of the names are pretty obvious, with the
exception of Charlie Saeger (rasputin443556), Mike Emeigh (defspec1)
and Joe Dimino (nymetssuck12).  If anyone wants to join this motley
crew for the repeat performance as Matt Morris faces off against Kirk
Rueter tonight, message one of us during the game over AOLIM.

Bottom of 4th inning

 

St. Louis 2, San Francisco 0, 1 out, Barry Bonds grounds out to
2B.

 

 

rasputin443556

: Well, the shift worked for once.  I think the shift is a big reason for Barry’s astronomical Batting Average this year, IMNSHO.

ctdial9

: You think the shift has helped Barry?  You?re nuts.

defspec1

: Barry’s been really good lately at going the other way - his HR and single in Game 5 of the NLDS were both hit to the off side.

ctdial9

: But the OF isn’t shifted like that.

rasputin443556

: Well, I may be nuts, but good hitters know how to adjust.  I suspect he has adjusted, and other teams just haven’t noticed.

ctdial9

: Both his ABs were hit directly to the right side.

defspec1

: No, but the single would have been a GB out against a normal defensive alignment.

ctdial9

: I agree.

ctdial9

: And Drew was playing on the WT, Normal positioning would have made the catch (but there is no normal positioning against Bonds).

defspec1

: Well, you shift because you want the guy to go the other way on the theory that he won’t hit the ball as hard and therefore you have a better chance of minimizing the damage.

ctdial9

: I disagree.

rasputin443556

: Just looking ... part of the reason for the high average is the low SO total.  His H$ is .330, which is a career high, but he was at .321 in 1993.

ctdial9

: I don’t think batters can “easily” hit it the other way and good batters won’t try.

defspec1

: Good batters won’t give up the advantage.

ctdial9

: The advantage of a free base with a bunt?

 

Bottom of 4th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 2 out, Santiago on 1st, Andy Benes
strikes J.T. Snow out looking to end the inning.

DSzymborsk

: I’m still shocked that Benes figured out how to pitch again.

ctdial9

: I think it is cool that he did.

DSzymborsk

: Next thing you know, Stottlemyre will make a comeback.

defspec1

: Which Stottlemyre - Todd or Mel Sr?

DSzymborsk

: Todd, better known as the one who decided to pitch with torn ligaments, assuming that if he ignored them, they’d simply go away.

nymetssuck12

: Where was the doc? Pretty amazing they’d let him do that.

DSzymborsk

: IIRC, it was like the 3rd opinion; I’d have to search for it, though. Anyone else remember the exact details?

DSzymborsk

: Then again, I have a way of almost remembering things.

Top of 5th inning

 

St. Louis 2, San Francisco 0, 2 outs, Albert Pujols flies out to
deep centerfield

ctdial9

: Whew!

defspec1

: Probably would have been over the fence in StL.

ctdial9

: Sanders in the 56 hole.

rasputin443556

: Reg-gie, Reg-gie, Reg-gie!

 

Bottom of 5th inning

 

St. Louis 2, San Francisco 0, no outs, Reggie Sanders singles to
leftfield.

ctdial9

: And ripped.  Egad.

ctdial9

: Why would Tom Goodwin play?

ctdial9

: Bell goes yard here.

rasputin443556

: Because someone switched Baker’s non-dairy creamer with cocaine.

ctdial9

: Or vice-versa.

Bottom of 5th inning

 

St. Louis 2, San Francisco 0, no outs, David Bell fouls out

ctdial9

: By “yard,” I mean he’ll pop out behind third.

rasputin443556

: “Goodwin” in the Oxford English Dictionary shows up as “career pinch runner.”

ctdial9

: How about career insurance salesman?

Top of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 0 outs, J.D. Drew grounds out to
first base

ctdial9

: What did Drew do?

DSzymborsk

: 3/g

ctdial9

: 3u

ctdial9

: For a popup or FB, it’s (3)

DSzymborsk

: I’ve become accustomed to DMB’s scoresheet terminology over the years

ctdial9

: No designation for FB or GB is necessary just a number is an assumed GB.  6-3 or 63 is a GB obviously.

rasputin443556

: I just go 3- for the groundball, straight 3 for the flyball.

rasputin443556

: DMB is using a modified account form box score format.  Bill James recommended using it in the newspaper instead of the standard box score in the 1983 Abby.

nymetssuck12

: I use p3 for popup and 3g for groundout.

ctdial9

: Yes, the “u” is implied and not necessary, it’s a consistency usage from 6u-3 dp.

Top of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 2 outs, Eli Marrero on 3rd, Mike
Matheny on 1st, Andy Benes at the plate

 

ctdial9

: Ok - who hits for Benes here?

defspec1

: What’s gotten into Matheny?

DSzymborsk

: Cardinal bench isn’t pretty.

ctdial9

: Some of Dusty non-dairy creamer.

rasputin443556

: Cardinal bench is staying on the bench.

ctdial9

: Is it obvious to leave him in?

defspec1

: Cairo, DiFelice, Eduardo, Robinson - Benes might be the best choice.

ctdial9

: Miguel Cairo!

DSzymborsk

: I don’t understand why they’re bothering with DiFelice even on the roster.

ctdial9

: Bobby Cox suggested it.

ctdial9

: Just throw some hard deuces.  Bust him in on the hands and then deuce away,

pitchers can’t hit curveballs.

defspec1

: DiFelice is on the roster because LaRussa is a genius.

Bottom of 6th inning,

 

Benes grounds out to short.  St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0

ctdial9

: Okay- Aurilia, Kent Bonds.

defspec1

: Middle of the order coming up - 2-0 doesn’t look all that safe.

ctdial9

: Predictions you guys?

nymetssuck12

: Are we all rooting for the Giants?

DSzymborsk

: Cardinals are already carrying Rolen; they shouldn’t have what’s essentially a 3rd catcher.

ctdial9

: Like I said, Bobby Cox advised LaRussa.

defspec1

: I’m rooting for StL - gotta have at least one division winner make the WS.

rasputin443556

: I am, or at least for Sir Barry.

defspec1

: WC vs WC sucks.

ctdial9

: I am all about Barry Bonds, and I hate the Cardinals.

DSzymborsk

: I remember Cox’s yearly Greg Myers visit.

nymetssuck12

: I agree Mike, except I’d rather have the Angels than Twins, because they’re better, don’t care about WC. And I want Barry to get his ring.

ctdial9

: The WC exists, as we discussed.

defspec1

: Yeah, I know the WC exists - that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

ctdial9

: I want Barry to get his ring also.

ctdial9

: I can buy that.

rasputin443556

: Sounds like my thoughts on the DH, Mike.

nymetssuck12

: The Twins were really the only team that didn’t belong, the other 7 were as close as any 7 teams I can remember.

defspec1

: I didn’t expect the Twins’ pen to implode like it did.

ctdial9

: Well, the Yankees had the same problem.

DSzymborsk

has entered the room.

rasputin443556

: Dan, we figured the sniper found you.

ctdial9

: Figured or “hoped.”

DSzymborsk

: I’m too far north; Joe’s a better target, not to mention a Yanks fan!

ctdial9

: That’s reason enough!

defspec1

: The sniper is moving south, though - DC, Fredericksburg…Raleigh’s in a somewhat direct line from there.

rasputin443556

: Don’t shoot the fans ... no, wait.  Jeffrey Maier.  Shoot him.  I’m still pissed.

Bottom of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 1 out after Aurilia’s strikeout, Kent
to the plate.

Dszymborsk:

  The local news here is actually trying to tell people to walk in a zigzag pattern to avoid sniper fire.

nymetssuck12

: Remember the movie the In Laws (Serpentine, Serpentine)

rasputin443556

: I-I-I-I’m your serpentine ... I’m gonna watch you scream.

ctdial9

: Welcome to the jungle.

defspec1

: Think they’ll pitch around Bonds w/ 2 out & no one on?

ctdial9

: Yes.

nymetssuck12

: Believe it or not, I do that a little. I was petrified filling my gas tank last night

Bottom of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 1 out, Kent on 1st after a walk.
Bonds at the plate.

ctdial9

: *Now* do you walk Bonds?

defspec1

: I don’t walk Bonds here.

ctdial9

: I pitch around him and go for the DP out of Nito

ctdial9

: This is intense for me.  They are pitching around.

nymetssuck12

: Go figure.

ctdial9

: I love games like this.

defspec1

: 3-0

nushidudek

: Do they pull Benes?

ctdial9

: No way.

rasputin443556

: chicken***t.

ctdial9

: That last pitch was really stupid.

defspec1

: They had Fassero up earlier - but he sat down. I don’t think anyone’s ready

defspec1

: UIBB to Barry

ctdial9

: He misses left, and it’s a tie game

Bottom of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 0, 1 out, Bonds walks, leaving runners
on 1st and 2nd with Benito Santiago at the plate.

defspec1

: Rick White’s coming in.

ctdial9

: I claim for Bonds (and 3 hitters, usually) that it is a function of their talent.

ctdial9

: See, they should have hit for Benes last inning.

nymetssuck12

: yeah really, if you’re going to lift him after two base runners, may as well pinch hit.

defspec1

: No guarantee that anyone off that G-A bench would have done any better.

ctdial9

: Well, he was headed into a part of the lineup that was going to hit him hard.

ctdial9

: Yes, but you could have started the inning with a fresh arm and wouldn’t be in this jam now.

nymetssuck12

: Or just leave him in, you’ve got a two run lead.

ctdial9

: Rick White was great for the Mets a while back and then imploded.

nymetssuck12

: Not like Benny’s gonna HR.

rasputin443556

: You do not want to let him face the winning run.

nymetssuck12

: Yeah, but it’s only the 6th.

nymetssuck12

: Is Rick White any better?

ctdial9

: He’s had a hot hand and you want to go with heavy GB thrower.

nushidudek

: If it’s true that Benes isn’t in great physical condition (they’ve been talking about the knee that prevents him from running between starts), then it’s a good bit he was almost out of gas.

nymetssuck12

: That I can see.

ctdial9

: I get someone up in the Giant bullpen right now.

defspec1

: White’s been decent in the postseason. One so-so outing, three good ones.

nymetssuck12

: I dunno he gave up one walk, then Bonds was automatic.

ctdial9

: If this gets to Livan, he’s out of the game.

Bottom of 6th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 2, 2 outs, J.T. Snow doubles in Bonds
and Kent, Reggie Sanders at the plate

ctdial9

: Okay - MLB player confidence - does White get rattled?

ctdial9

: Does that “exist” at this level?

nymetssuck12

: Doesn’t matter, because Sanders is up.

DSzymborsk

: Only if you’re Armando.

ctdial9

: But does it exist?

nushidudek

: White does not get rattled. He’s got the platoon edge and a base open.

ctdial9

: Does he know that?

ctdial9

: He’s overthrowing his slider, which is a sign of tension.

rasputin443556

: Of course it does, but these guys are pros.  Most of them can make the adjustments and those who cannot will not last long.

nymetssuck12

: I think the “choke/rattled” theory is much more sound than the clutch theory, which I’m totally in sabermetric line with.

nushidudek

: Probably not (he doesn’t know).

ctdial9

: I’m on pins and needles.

nymetssuck12

: Not saying I think guys choke, but I can see them pressing and it effecting their games.

defspec1

: LaRussa didn’t pull his right-left routine; he could have gone w/ Fassero to Snow and chose not to.

defspec1

: Wonder if Tony’s second-guessing himself?

nymetssuck12

: Too early.

nymetssuck12

: He’s got 3 more innings

rasputin443556

: Well, never second-guess Tony LaRussa.  He’s a genius.  George Will says so.

Top of 7th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 2, Fernando Vina on 2nd, 1 out, Jim
Edmonds at the plate, Felix Rodriguez in relief and Tsuyoshi Shinjo in
rightfield.

defspec1

: So what DO we call Francisco Rodriguez now?

nymetssuck12

: Krod.

TangoTigre

: KRod!!  i love it

ctdial9

: The Angels FRod has 4 W’s, correct?

nymetssuck12

: I didn’t make it up, saw it on Primer, but I like it a lot

defspec1

: Yep - two in each series.

Eramon1

: Yep. 4. Until he arrived I thought he was the old Frankie Rodriguez and didn’t know what the hullaballoo was about.

DrJamesSidbury

: They said KRod on today’s radio broadcast

rasputin443556

: Double switch ...

ctdial9

: Shinjo!

rasputin443556

: Shinjoke!

defspec1

: For Reggie?

DSzymborsk

: Are there any shinjo fans left?

TangoTigre

: Shinjo….best 25th man player.

defspec1

: Here comes Felix…

nushidudek

: I saw some ‘K-Rod’ signs in Anaheim (on TV)

ctdial9

: No LHP in the Jints bullpen?  I would have brought in Eyre or someone.

defspec1

: Eyre, Fultz, and Zerbe.

ctdial9

: Edmonds has a huge split, no?

defspec1

: Edmonds, Pujols, and Tino are 0-18 against Felix, according to Joe Angel.

 

Bottom of 8th inning

 

St. Louis 2 San Francisco 2, 1 out, Jeff Kent grounds out to first
base

 

rasputin443556

: I kinda want Kent to make out.  Then they pitch to Barry, and he homers.

DrJamesSidbury

: I can live with that.

ctdial9

: There is *no way* Larussa is that dumb.

ctdial9

: You can’t possibly pitch to Bonds from here on out this game.

nushidudek

: I think they give Bonds slop with 2 out no one on.

DrJamesSidbury

: There’s no way that you can make that statement about LaRussa even if he walks Bonds.

ctdial9

: I would walk Bonds no matter what.

rasputin443556

: I’d pitch to him.  A 45% of getting an out is better than a 0% chance.

DSzymborsk

: I wouldn’t pitch to him.  If I were a pitcher, Bonds at the plate would make me wet my pants.

ctdial9

: 65% of Bonds is way higher than 28% with Nito.

rasputin443556

: Granted, I’d piss my pants were I to face Bonds too, but I’d still pitch to him.

ctdial9

: You’d lose.

DSzymborsk

: There are two types of protection:  Weak protection and Barry Bonds.

DrJamesSidbury

: I’d hit him with my heater.

nushidudek

: I think I don’t pitch to him. I’ll let Santiago try to beat me.

ctdial9

: I mean, White’s OOPS plus Nito’s OOPS (plus platoon differentials) is just an unnecessary risk.

nymetssuck12

: I agree although up a run, I’d let him hit.

DSzymborsk

: Now, it’s more fun to watch Bonds be pitched to

ctdial9

: Oh, weak protection, as defined by David Marasco *is* strong protection.

ctdial9

: Stupid statheads.

nushidudek

: Everything depends on the score and inning. This late, 1 run is probably the game.

ctdial9

: Nito should take and give Bonds a chance to steal.

ctdial9

: If I’m only up one, I walk him

DrJamesSidbury

: What if you’re up 2 and the bases are loaded

ctdial9

: He’s just way too likely to hit a HR.

ctdial9

: I walk him.

nymetssuck12

: I dunno, IBB’ing him leading off is pretty dumb.

ctdial9

: The rest of the Jints blow.  You can get a DP out of Santiago easily.

DrJamesSidbury

: What is the probability that LaRussa will run out of pitchers tonight?

nymetssuck12

: Agreed the rest of the Giants suck.

ctdial9

: Don’t pitch to Bonds at this point, in my book.

ctdial9

: LaRussa out of pitchers?

ctdial9

: He’s playing for the tie?

agiacalone

: Of course the last time that they didn’t pitch to Bonds, he scored the tying run.

rasputin443556

: He only carries 8 hitters and 17 pitchers.

ctdial9

: Yes, but the risk is too high.

agiacalone

: LaRussa is carrying 11 left handed relievers to make sure that he gets J.T. Snow out.

ctdial9

: Santiago is an out 70% of the time.

ctdial9

: Higher in this situation.

Bottom of 8th

 

St. Louis 2, San Francisco 2, 2 out, Bonds on first, Benito
Santiago hits a 2-run homer to leftfield.

nymetssuck12

: GET OUT!!!

rasputin443556

: SAYONORA!

nymetssuck12

: YESS!!!!

DrJamesSidbury

: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DSzymborsk

: WOO

ctdial9

: YES!!!!!

agiacalone

: hehe!

ctdial9

: Did he spin around after he hit it?

rasputin443556

: BEN-NY, BEN-NY, BEN-NY

DrJamesSidbury

: Should have pitched to Bonds.

rasputin443556

: See?  Toldja so.

nushidudek

: In hindsight, maybe I’d have brought in Isringhausen.

ctdial9

: No, should have put in a reliever that hadn’t thrown 35 pitches.

ctdial9

: Yes.

ctdial9

: Bring in a fresh arm.

DrJamesSidbury

: How come all those seats are empty?

rasputin443556

: I’d want my closer in this situation.

ctdial9

: Me too.

nymetssuck12

: As valuable as anyone not named Bonds.

agiacalone

: Two walks to Bonds and two runs scored.

nymetssuck12

: How about Kent or Aurilia, Joe?

ctdial9

: Hmmm, Larussa under-utilizes his bullpen.  Didn’t see that coming

Top of 9th inning

 

San Francisco 4, St. Louis 2, Robb Nen replaces
Tim Worrell, Kerry Robinson leads off the inning

ctdial9

: Oh, and I leave Worrell in. This is over-managing

DrJamesSidbury

: Why?

nushidudek

: Totally predictable. 9th inning, a lead - closer comes in.

ctdial9

: Leave Worrell in.

ctdial9

: He’s fine and he has good stuff

DSzymborsk

: doh

Top of 9th inning

 

San Francisco 4, St. Louis 2, Kerry Robinson reaches 1st on wild
pitch 3rd strike

ctdial9

: He’ll be safe.

nushidudek

: Safe on K! Gotta love the splitter!

DrJamesSidbury

: “One out.”

rasputin443556

: Fairly good correlation between PB and K23 assists, FWIW, though there’s no assist here.

nushidudek

: See - Kerry Robinson has good speed - that’s why he’s on the post season roster.

Top of 9th inning

 

San Francisco 4, St. Louis 2, Vina singles, leaving 1st and 2nd
and no outs with Edgar Renteria at bat

nushidudek

: 2 on.

DSzymborsk

: I don’t mind Robinson on the roster; it’s DiFelice’s existence I find confusing

DrJamesSidbury

: Bunt?

ctdial9

: I hate overmanaging.

rasputin443556

: Bunt when down and on the road?  Insane.

ctdial9

: Dick is a Braves fan…

DrJamesSidbury

: I wasn’t advocating a bunt.

ctdial9

: I know.

DrJamesSidbury

: And I suffer when my manager does it waaay too often.

nushidudek

: If Renty reaches, Cards tie it (that’s a prediction).

ctdial9

: Mt. Dew or Smirnoff Ice?  Who needs one?

DSzymborsk

: I hate Mountain Dew.  It leaves this gross lemon-lime film in your throat.

DrJamesSidbury

: Well, McCarver is against the bunt.

rasputin443556

: Diet Coke.  My wife tells me there’s Diet Vanilla Coke as of Tuesday.

DSzymborsk

: Vanilla Coke tastes sort of like flat Coke.

Top of 9th inning

 

San Francisco 4, St. Louis 2, 1st and 2nd no
outs, Renteria grounds out to Aurilia, Robinson to 3rd, Vina to
2nd.

ctdial9

: Mt. Dew is the best.

ctdial9

: I would have gone to second if I were Aurilia.

DrJamesSidbury

: Regular or Code Red?

nushidudek

: Not a bad result. Vina should score on an outfield hit.

rasputin443556

: Dr. Pepper is king, though I have been drinking diet for the last year.  Diet Dr. Pepper tastes like water.

ctdial9

: Regular.

agiacalone

: They did a great sketch on the top secret complexity of Vanilla Coke on the Daily Show.

DSzymborsk

: I actually like the generic Dr. Pepper better than the original.

DSzymborsk

: Wal-Mart’s Dr. Perfect.

rasputin443556

: The Daily Show the day of the Vanilla Coke release was a classic.

ctdial9

: I’m also a big Cheerwine drinker.

DSzymborsk

: Yeah, you gave me a can of Cheerwine; good stuff.

agiacalone

: Steve Carrell is awesome.

DrJamesSidbury

: Diet Dr. Pepper as all diet drinks taste worse than water.

rasputin443556

: Do you bring the infield in?

DrJamesSidbury

: Excepting, of course, club soda.

ctdial9

: No, I’m up 2 runs.

nymetssuck12

: Edmonds 1-for-5 lifetime vs. Nen, w/2B.

ctdial9

: Small sample.

nushidudek

: No way. Infield stays back.

DSzymborsk

: Club soda’s good because you usually put alcohol in it.

DrJamesSidbury

: Yeah, but you can’t get cheerwine up nawth.

Top of 9th inning

 

San Francisco 4, St. Louis 2, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, Jim
Edmonds singles to rightfield, Kerry Robinson scores, Vina moves to
3rd, Albert Pujols at the plate

ctdial9

: Yes, that was a strike

nymetssuck12

: Pujols 0-for-3, 1 BB.

DrJamesSidbury

: Here comes the splitter.

nushidudek

: Chin Music….I bet the splitter comes next

rasputin443556

: DP, DP, Barry needs a ring.

ctdial9

: He went with my call rather than the splitter.

nymetssuck12

: And Barry needs a ring.

nushidudek

: I’m rooting for a minimum 6 game series. If this one ends tomorrow - I’ll suffer from ball withdrawal waiting for the World Series..

nymetssuck12

: Friggin Santiago, he giveth and then he taketh away.

nymetssuck12

: I don’t want to risk it going back to St. Louis.

nymetssuck12

: Giants could still blow this series, very easily.

nushidudek

: Edmonds must try to steal!

ctdial9

: Any out that doesn’t score Vina is the play here.

DSzymborsk

: They Giants were in *such* a commanding position 2 days ago.

nushidudek

: Can’t risk a GIDP..

ctdial9

: Edmonds is too slow and TL has tons of faith in Pujols.

Albert Pujols strikes out, leaving it San Francisco 4, St. Louis 3, 2 outs, runners on 1st and 3rd, J.D. Drew at the plate

DSzymborsk

:  The lookout just improved.

rasputin443556

: Robb Nen KK

nymetssuck12

: Game over if not for the speed demon

ctdial9

: The lookout?

DrJamesSidbury

: Outlook?

ctdial9

: glub glub

nushidudek

: C’mon Nen, bounce another one in the dirt.

DSzymborsk

: I’ve only had 3 drinks tonight.

ctdial9

: No, that’s a hanger.

nushidudek

: Drew should have clocked that one.

ctdial9

: Drew is just taking a look at him.

DSzymborsk

: No way the Cards can sweep 3 if they lose this.

nushidudek

: Here comes the K (I can feel it)

DSzymborsk

: I’m going for weak popup.

ctdial9

: GB 3U

rasputin443556

: K+PB

ctdial9

: Maybe Dusty could bring in Bob Stanley for the WP.

DrJamesSidbury

: Straight steal of home.

nushidudek

: Wow. Full count - force play will be tough at 2nd.

DrJamesSidbury

: Tino is on deck

ctdial9

: Evidently, Dick has been into the sauce.

nushidudek

: Knew it.

DSzymborsk

: Robert gets the cookie.

rasputin443556

: Tino, that Veteran Clutch Hitting King, will not bat.

nymetssuck12

: YES!

Drew strikes out.  Final Score:  San Francisco 4, St. Louis 3

Dan Szymborski Posted: October 14, 2002 at 06:00 AM | 8 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Floyd Thursby Posted: October 14, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606721)
Nen throws a slider, not a splitter. Don't be Steve Lyons, now.

The slider he hung to Pujols was ugly. Looked like a knuckler. The slider he threw to Drew was one of the most beautiful pitches I've ever seen. That was a Kerry Wood/20 K game slider.
   2. Rob Wood Posted: October 14, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606723)
Hey guys, who no discussion of Vina not scoring from second as the tying run on an outfield single hit to rag-arm Tom Goodwin? If the throw goes through the batter can take second. So who knows the proper threshold probability?

I am a big Giants fan and I was very happy they didn't send Vina. TV replays did not show Vina's jump off of second, so I don't know how much he delayed waiting to make sure the ball was not caught by an infielder. But I think it went between (and higher than) Kent and Snow, and it is his job to know where the fielders are positioned so that he can tell if a hit could be caught.

Anyway, I thought the stream of consciousness was great!
   3. Charles Saeger Posted: October 14, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606724)
Just so everyone is clear -- I was kidding about shooting Jeffrey Maier. (There were some parts snipped about shooting Joe Dimino because he's a Yankees fan.) I just want that home run changed into a putout by the right fielder (Tarasco) and Richie Garcia to lose his job and the Yankees to lose their league title.

But it still cheeses me off every time I see that game on ESPN classic ...
   4. Robert Dudek Posted: October 14, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606732)
I thought Vina ran the bases horribly on the play in question.

He got a fair jump and looked likely to score; then, half way to third, he stopped for a moment and looked back to see if the ball had been caught. He had precious little chance to get back to 2nd had the ball been caught - and so his pause was utterly pointless. At that point, he most likely would have been thrown out had he tried to score.

Without that pause he probably scores on that play.



   5. Marc Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606746)
Maybe somebody can explain to me why in the h*** Matt Morris occupied space in the batter's box in the top of the ninth in a tied, elimination game on the road. He was clearly tiring in the 8th, it can hardly be regarded as a surprise that he did not get out of the 9th. And even if Steve Kline had gotten the final out and the Cards had survived into the 10th, that at bat was completely wasted. I could understand if he was at home and would get the last at bat, but not here.
   6. Marc Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:55 AM (#606749)
PS. I thought Vina played like a rookie throughout the whole series. And Mike Scioscia has got to be the luckiest guy alive, I didn't see him doing any actual managing that whole series. In the interest of full disclosure, 'course I'm a Twins fan; but then again, I didn't see Gardenhire do any actual managing either. Both of them went 110% by the book. I understand of course that if you are Ron Gardenhire and you lose you better lose with a defensible strategy, ie. one that you won with before. But I think Casey Stengel, for one, would have recognized when Eddie Guardado or whomever didn't have his best stuff and would have made a change. The Giants will probably win it all because they're the only one of the four semi-finalists who have an actual manager on board.
   7. Marc Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606765)
I can only say that the 3rd base coach, any/every 3rd base coach, seems to end up most of the way home on a play like that. It doesn't seem unusual to me, but it is a good observation.

The whole thing reminds me of Lonnie Smith's failure to score from first on a double in the 7th game in '91. The Braves would have won 1-0 but for Smith falling for Chuck Knoblauch's deke, so instead the Twins won 1-0 in 10.

Also, it sure seemed to me like the Twins baserunners were constantly being held up at third against the Angels because they got there too slowly. Fundamentals.
   8. Chris Dial Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606769)
Orin,
yes, Dan trimmed that from my comments last night. He looked for the 3B coach, who I think was telling him to hold because he couldn't tell if the line drive was going to hang up.

You are right. If you are reading this.

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