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— Where BTF's Members Investigate the Grand Old Game

Tuesday, October 15, 2002

Nobody Loves Tony

No bad Andy Benes puns, plenty of LaRussa bashing in our second PrimerChat.

Once again, Primer contributors and Primer readers got together during the game.  Everyone had a fun time, with the possible exception of Tony LaRussa if he ever runs across this transcript.  At the bottom of the page, check out the link to Chris Dial’s scorecard in order to follow the action.


RobPetry18: Cardinals are coming all the way back, baby!

defspec1: It wouldn’t bother me if they did, but TLR will figure out a way to screw it up.

RobPetry18: So, I assume I’m the only guy in the sabermetric

community rooting for the Cardinals?

DSzymborsk: Robert Dudek, too.

defspec1: Well, I’m sort of rooting for them - I don’t want to see an All-WC series but TLR makes it very hard to root for them

DSzymborsk: Brock Hanke is a Cards fan, too.

vorosm: The Genius!

RobPetry18: Most cardinals fans are caught in between because we

hate TLR more than the rest of you.

vorosm: LaRussa, not Brock.

defspec1: You forgot the TM symbol on that, Voros

RobPetry18: I was yelling at the TV last night when he left White in.

DSzymborsk: You think it’s hard rooting for the Cards because of TLR? I’m an Orioles fan.

RobPetry18: Of all the mistakes for TLR to make, he fails to make a

pitching change at the appropriate time? What are the chances of that?

defspec1: Goodwin is starting in RF for SF tonight

nymetssuck12: No way! Really?

defspec1: Really. He’s 4-6 against Morris.

mrobertdudek: I’ll say off the bat that I’m rooting for the Cards tonight. It’ll be tough to go 4 full days without baseball.

defspec1): Dusty’s trying to help out, Robert!

nymetssuck12: I’d be nervous for SF if this goes back to St. Louis,

especially if Rolen is playing by then.

defspec1: Will Carroll (Under the Knife) thinks Rolen’s injury is worse than they are reporting.

DSzymborsk: Dunno; if it were worse than they were reporting, why waste a roster spot just to cover it up?

tybaltgreen: Is it really beyond the Cards, though, to throw the dice and hope for a miracle? Their record at roster construction is not stellar.

mrobertdudek: The Cards wanted to psyche the Giants out - make them think

Rolen was coming back. If that’s the case, Larussa is a moron.

nymetssuck12: That’s true, how important is the 25th man anyway? That’s just his 19th reliever anyway.

tybaltgreen: Who is available for the Cardinals to go on the playoff roster that can actually pinch-hit?

defspec1: Looking down the Cards’ stats, they really don’t have anyone else

they could have put on the roster to replace Rolen. After the 13 position players the Cards already have on the roster, the next guy down was Wilson Delgado, who got 20 ABs. They have only three position players on the 40-man who aren’t on the post-season roster - Taguchi, Delgado, and Ivan Cruz.

nymetssuck12: Ivan Cruz should be on the roster.

tybaltgreen: 24 pitchers on a 40-man roster… gawd.

defspec1: LaRussa needs someone to cover for the inevitable arm injuries.

Aaron Gleeman: Joe Buck has one big-ass forehead.

Memphis777: Believe it or not, Kline is at least listed as a switch-hitter

defspec1: As Casey Stengel once reportedly said, “He bats three ways - left, right and seldom.”

Aaron Gleeman: Has anyone seen Rueter’s numbers vs. lefties in the playoffs so

far?! I think I might have Tino in there.

defspec1: Pujols or Edmonds for Cards’ MVP?

DSzymborsk: I gave Pujols the edge.

tybaltgreen: Depends… using the “official” criteria I have to say Albert, but I might prefer Edmonds on pure “value” given his CF defense.

Memphis777: I’d go with Edmonds because he’s so much better defensively, but I

don’t think Pujols is a bad choice.

Aaron Gleeman: I think Edmonds was probably their MVP, especially if you give

a lot of credit for defense.

DSzymborsk: With outfield and 3B problems, having Pujols play both was


ctdial9: It’s really close, but I lean toward the defensive player here.

rasputin443556: Well, Edmonds, but he probably isn’t the defensive

wiz most people claim he is.

Dszymborsk: Edmonds got the big rep solely on that catch about 4 or 5 years ago.

Aaron Gleeman: I think Edmonds isn’t much better than an average defensive CF,

but that is still more valuable than an average LF.

Top of 2nd inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, 1 out, Edgar Renteria on 2nd, Mike Matheny at the plate.

mrobertdudek: It’s too early to hit and run - especially on the road.

rasputin443556: The hit and run is never a good play. Count me

solidly in Earl Weaver’s camp.

DSzymborsk: It’s always too early to hit and run

ctdial9: I think the H & R is used in the wrong spots, but there is a place for it.

Aaron Gleeman: I just bought Weaver on Strategy and B&N last week.

Matheny grounds out to second, Renteria advances to third. Matt Morris flies out.

Bottom of 2nd inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, Barry Bonds leads off the inning.

ctdial9: Actually, that wasn’t the time for it (smallball).

mrobertdudek: It’s a defensible strategy if you need a run and the batter has great bat control.

ctdial9: Matheny (and people like Rey Ordonez) can (just about) only contribute to smallball on offense.

defspec1: With the pitcher coming up?

ctdial9: That’s why I said not with 1 out.

defspec1: Barry has never hit a HR off Morris.

rasputin443556: How many PAs? Hell, he has never hit a home run against me, either, and you don’t hear my name.

mrobertdudek: Morris looks sharp today - prediction: Cards win 4-2

Memphis777: Well, Morris is looking like his normal self today, not the body

snatcher that pitched in Game 1.

defspec1: 14 PAs Bonds vs Morris - he’s 2-13 with a walk.

ctdial9: Yes, Morris usually throws no hitters.

defspec1: The two hits are doubles.

Memphis777: I’m not talking about a no-hitter, Chris, I’m talking about being in the zone and hard to hit.

Bottom of 2nd inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, 2 outs, bases empty, Tom Goodwin at the plate.

defspec1: Reggie Sanders, BTW, is 0-10 with 1 BB against Morris, while Goodwin is 4-6 with 2 BB. That’s why Goodwin is playing.

DSzymborsk: I’m happy to see Mr. Clutch Tino sitting in a must-win game

RobPetry18: Took 170 games to figure out Tino sucks, but at least it

finally happened.

DSzymborsk: That was sure a great investment by Jocketty

defspec1: TLR the master of the left-right matchup is back tonight.

Memphis777: No, Brazeal, he’s sitting because it’s a lefty pitcher

defspec1: No Tino, no Drew. He’d probably have sat Edmonds too if Kerry Robinson batted right.

rasputin443556: Remember, it is better to have the L/R matchup than to

actually have a good player.

RobPetry18: True, Eric, but at least he realizes Tino sucks against lefties. I mean, usually, he sits Drew and keeps Tino in there.

defspec1: Tino’s started every game this postseason before tonight.

Aaron Gleeman: I saw JD Drew play for the St. Paul Saints and I thought he was gonna be a superstar.

DSzymborsk: I still think he’ll be.

RobPetry18: He will be, Aaron.

DSzymborsk: I think he’s better defensively in CF than Edmonds.

tybaltgreen: Not if Tony LaRussa has anything to say aobut it.

Aaron Gleeman: I think he should be, but I don’t know it Tony the Genius will

let him.

DSzymborsk: That’s The Genius©.

defspec1: TLR, SOOPER Genius! (with apologies to Chuck Jones)

DrJamesSidbury: I thought Bill Walsh had The Genius trademarked.

rasputin443556: We should be a little easier on LaRussa. Sure, he’s overrated, but he has won fairly consistently.

RobPetry18: Yeah, but he’s brutal to watch every day.

DSzymborsk: What’s really sad is that LaRussa was probably the best manager in

the division.

Top of 3rd inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, 1 out, Cairo on first, Edmonds singles to rightfield, Cairo advances to third. Pujols at the plate.

ctdial9: Did you guys see that replay? Way to hit the cutoff man.

DSzymborsk: Goodwin’s not a RF, just there by default.

Aaron Gleeman: Goodwin is not a MLB Player, just there by default.

ctdial9: BTW, when did Goodwin face Morris?

RobPetry18: Oh yeah, did you see McCarver say more games are won

and lost with baserunning than any other way? Much more important than

pitching, hitting and defense, apparently.

DSzymborsk: McCarver says a lot of things.

rasputin443556: Well, I heard him say that. I just filed it under “Tim

McCarver is a [firetrucking] babbling moron.”

DrJamesSidbury: That file must be huge.

Pujols strikes out looking.

ctdial9: Nasty.

RobPetry18: Our friends in the Cardinals newsgroup will be saying

Pujols should’ve been forced to squeeze there.

defspec1: What was Pujols thinking?

DSzymborsk: I never understood how Rueter or Mark Gardner ever got anyone


ctdial9: Pujols was setting Rueter up for his next AB.

defspec1: Goodwin vs Morris, July 18: 2-4 with a K.

ctdial9: I think this is what Rueter’s outing is going to be - 2 Hits an inning, but no runs.

defspec1: Goodwin vs Morris, July 23 - 2-2 with 2 BB.

rasputin443556: Shutout from the stretch.

Aaron Gleeman: He better not be counting on K-ing Pujols every time.

DrJamesSidbury: Rueter looks like Prince Charles with his big ears.

Bottom of 4th Inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, Kenny Lofton leads off and gets hit with the punch. Rich Aurilia at the plate.

DrJamesSidbury: There should be a law about the number of clips

from previous games that Fox can show within one minute.

ctdial9: Morris hit Lofton - thrown right at him.

Aaron Gleeman: Nice bunt.

Memphis777: I really doubt that was intentional, though.

ctdial9: I don’t

Memphis777: He had a perfect game going.

nymetssuck12: I can’t see him hitting a guy w/Kent Bonds on the way.

ctdial9: Nor was the Pujols HBP last night.

mrobertdudek: Why are they wasting outs with the heart of the order coming up?

rasputin443556: Bunt takes the bat out of Bonds’s hands.

nymetssuck12: I agree, pretty dumb Dusty.

DrJamesSidbury: They’ll walk Kent to pitch to Bonds

ctdial9: Besides - Bonds can always be walked

Kent flies out, Lofton advances to 3rd. Bonds at the plate.

Memphis777: Whew, that one scared me.

nymetssuck12: HMM, think they walk Barry?

Memphis777: Now it’s time for everybody to start waving chickens.

defspec1: No way they pitch to Barry.

RobPetry18: Probably. But I’d walk him.

nymetssuck12: Absolutely they walk him. No brainer.

Aaron Gleeman: Barry should just walk straight to first, do not go to homeplate,

do not put on the elbow pad.

ctdial9: This is dumb - just IBB.

DrJamesSidbury: They are pitching to him.

Memphis777: No, Dick, they’re “pitching” to him.

Bonds lines out to leftfield, ending the inning.

nymetssuck12: WOW

DSzymborsk: boo

DrJamesSidbury: damn

RobPetry18: wow, cool!

Memphis777: Oh, wow, they really did pitch to him!

nymetssuck12: I’m shocked

ctdial9: Maybe

Aaron Gleeman: I can’t believe they gave him something to hit!

ctdial9: That ball might have been off the plate.

RobPetry18: No it wasn’t, Chris. Barry swung, right? So it must’ve

been a strike.

nymetssuck12: I was gone for awhile, who is RobPetry18?

ctdial9: Was that a FB or a LD?

RobPetry18: David Brazeal, the loser.

DSzymborsk: David Brazeal.

rasputin443556: Dan Petry’s brother.

Memphis777 (9:25:25 PM): I was so sure they were “pitching” to him that I glanced back and thought they were showing a replay.

DrJamesSidbury: Maybe he was fooled?

ctdial9: I want an overhead view all the time.

defspec1): Chris, I’d score it as a line drive.

tybaltgreen: I’m also going with L7 (7L the way I do it).

Memphis777: So since this is the NL, will Morris get drilled?

Memphis777: I wonder when they’ll have a FOX Virtual Poll over whether we

think FOX Virtual Polls are stupid.

defspec1: Kuiper says this is not the time for retaliation, so it won’t happen.

ctdial9: Plus you hit Pujols/Edmonds with 2 out none on.

nymetssuck12 (9:28:44 PM): Agreed

Bottom of 5th inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, Santiago on 1st, no outs, Tom Goodwin at the plate.

rasputin443556: Wait a sec ... Goodwin bats 6th?

defspec1: That’s what going 4-6 against Morris will do for you.

rasputin443556: That’s desperation or lunacy.

Memphis777: Could be both.

ctdial9: Since SF is up 3-1 I’ll go with lunacy.

rasputin443556: Or a death wish.

tybaltgreen: That was closer to his ankles than his knees.

mrobertdudek: Baker bunts with Aurilia and Goodwin hits away?

defspec1: Tom “4-6” Goodwin is now 0-2 with 2 Ks.

defspec1: Giants sent Witasick down to warm up.

nymetssuck12: What the hell?

Memphis777: That was odd.

rasputin443556: That was interference, alright.

nymetssuck12: Holding on the defense 5 and a 1st down!

Memphis777: I can’t believe they didn’t call that.

rasputin443556: Dusty is pretty amazed, whatever Nelson’s logic is.

Aaron Gleeman: lol, McCarver says interference on PUJOLS!

Memphis777: He should have gone on home, he probably would have had a

better argument.

nymetssuck12: What the hell is Nelson thinking?

tybaltgreen: Well, he rounded the bag pretty wide.

nymetssuck12: Yeah, but the contact was on the bag.

tybaltgreen: And he did start screaming right away… he may have been trying to

draw the call.

tybaltgreen: I still think it was interference.

nymetssuck12: Brutal call. His foot is on the bag when contact is made.

ctdial9: Rally stopped by Rueter coming up.

Dgoody14: Mental note to Mccarver and Buck….defensive players “obstruct” and

offensive players “interfere.”

Aaron Gleeman: Santiago would have been meat on that play btw.

defspec1: Rule 7.06 is the obstruction rule. 7.06(b) says that if no play is being made on the runner being obstructed the umpire is to let the play continue and wait to impose penalties until the play is over.

defspec1: There’s no automatic penalty for obstruction if no play is being made on the obstructed runner.


ctdial9: Mike’s right - if Santiago gets thrown out, then there can be interference.

Top of 6th inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0, 2 outs, Eduardo Perez on 1st, Edgar Renteria at the plate.

Memphis777: Renteria comes up with the clutch grounder off the 2B’s glove.

defspec1: Morris has thrown only 53 pitches.

rasputin443556: That should be an error, in my book.

ctdial9: His GS [game score] is going to go down though.

nymetssuck12: I wonder what the highest GS/pitch ratio ever is.

DSzymborsk: Eyre’s warming up

defspec1: I thought it was a hit myself.

ctdial9: I hope you are writing your book in pencil. A decent 2B could well have had it. Kent had a bad jump.

defspec1: That doesn’t make it an error, though

Memphis777: Hmm…time for Matheny to kill the rally.

Dgoody14: 2-0 down the gut and you take….man.

defspec1: Not yet - Marrero’s got to walk first

Memphis777 (9:54:08 PM): Oops, Marrero.

ctdial9: Then Matheny…

Memphis777: Matheny will pre-emptively kill the rally to start the top of the 7th.

defspec1: Marrero just killed the 6th; Matheny can kill the 7th.

defspec1: And then DiFelice can PH.

DSzymborsk: TLR needs DiFelice just in case there’s an emergency rally to kill.

Bottom of 6th inning

St. Louis 0, San Franciso 0, Kenny Lofton leading off.

mrobertdudek: The Giants will take a lead in this half inning.

Dgoody14: Hey, Buck is finally getting his terms right.

ctdial9: He heard the coach uses “obstruction.”

Lofton singles to rightfield, Aurilia gets hit by a pitch. Jeff Kent at the plate.

ctdial9: Ouch. That was very uncool.

ctdial9: Now the Cards are in a world of [ship].

Dgoody14: Ouch…Bagwelled.

ctdial9: This is the Matt Morris we know.

nymetssuck12: I’d love to see Kent whiff then Barry 3-run bomb. I love when ‘team-guy’ sucks then Barry picks him up.

rasputin443556: Thrown 95 if you add 10 mph to his fastest pitch.

Kent grounds into a double play; Lofton out at third, Kent out at first, Aurilia advances to second. Bonds at the plate.

Aaron Gleeman: Mr. Clutch!

ctdial9: GD

Memphis777: I was about to say the Cardinals really need a GIDP

defspec1: Robert’s right - it was off the knob of the bat.

ctdial9: Thanks, Kent.

DrJamesSidbury: 99-1 against pitching to Bonds

Dgoody14: Man, he gets that more down the line we have ourselves a Gaetti-esque TP.

DrJamesSidbury: 5u-1 dp

defspec1: Kent 53/G5/DP

rasputin443556: 5-3 DP, 3b making the putout too

ctdial9: 5u-3, dp

Bonds intentionally walked, Benito Santiago up at bat.

Aaron Gleeman: Benito! Benito!

ctdial9: Didn’t we see this once?

DrJamesSidbury: Kent would have delivered if he hadn’t been injured washing his truck.

ctdial9: Lingering effects.

nymetssuck12: It seems like he’s killed a ton of rallies this month.

Benito grounds out.

Top of 7th inning

St. Louis 0, San Francisco 0. Felix Rodriguez in relief for Rueter, Mike Matheny up.

ctdial9: Getting down to “smallball” time.

ctdial9: Win probabilities are going way up.

mrobertdudek: I love small ball time.

Memphis777: No, LaRussa will bring Rick White out and use him until his arm

falls off.

DSzymborsk: I guess we’ll see Drew and Tino soon.

defspec1: Felix time.

nymetssuck12: How do you not start Drew?

tybaltgreen: I’m betting that Morris comes out having thrown less than 90


Memphis777: He pinch-hit for Drew against Graeme Lloyd earlier this

year…claiming that Lloyd is really tough on lefties.

DSzymborsk: Morris has only thrown 67.

Matheny drives the ball to right center.

Memphis777 (10:10:12 PM): E8

ctdial9: ARRRGH!

ctdial9: Kick it some more.

Memphis777: Dunno if they’ll give it to him.

rasputin443556: No, that’s a hit.

ctdial9: Andruw Jones would have caught that.

mrobertdudek: Does Lofton has a lead glove or something?

Memphis777: No, it’s an error.

DSzymborsk: They call everything a hit.

Memphis777: They ruled it a double, though.

defspec1: What a horrible call!

ctdial9: Now you can leave Morris in and bunt.

DSzymborsk: If Mike Bordick had thrown it into the stands this season, they’d

still call it a hit.

Aaron Gleeman: McCarver is such a jackass.

rasputin443556: Lofton has lost a ton of range.

defspec1: In the obstruction situation, the umpire had to determine whether the

obstruction cost the runner a base. Clearly it didn’t, therefore he made the right call.

ctdial9: I was kidding about Andruw.

Aaron Gleeman: Palermo should just say, “Tim, you ignorant slut!”

Matt Morris makes a bunt attempt. Rodriguez unsuccessfully tries to throw Matheny out at 3rd. Everyone safe. Fernando Vina to the plate.

Memphis777: Dumb throw.

Dgoody14: They give you an out and you don’t take it…

Memphis777: Matheny tried to kill that rally, but Lofton wouldn’t let him.

ctdial9: Denkinger!

defspec1: Bad choice there.

Aaron Gleeman: OUT!

ctdial9: OUT!!

mrobertdudek: Matheny was out - he slid just like Drew did yesterday. Can’t

these Cardinals slide?

ctdial9: Now the Cards can STFU about 85.

Memphis777: Yeah, upon further review that was an out.

RobPetry18: 23 more of these and we’ll be even for Denkinger.

DSzymborsk: Matheny touched Bell’s foot, not the bag.

DrJamesSidbury: He was out but no umpire would have called it correctly.

nymetssuck12: Out. Let’s see Palermo explain that one.

rasputin443556: No, a Denkinger is when the guy is just hitting the dirt on the turf and the ump calls him safe. Denkinger wasn’t even close.

ctdial9: But yet, the Cards fans expect it to be correct by Denkinger.

Memphis777: That was close enough to be excusable…the Denkinger one wasn’t.

Vina flies out to left, Matheny scores.

DrJamesSidbury: Sac fly.

RobPetry18: Y’know, Palermo makes me wish they would use some ex-umps for color analysts.

Aaron Gleeman: McCarver looks like he wants a piece of Palermo.

RobPetry18: He’s 500% better than most former players.

DrJamesSidbury: I’m waiting for him to comment on the play at third

that just occurred.

Cairo singles, Morris advances to second. Edmonds flies out to left.

ctdial9: Did you see Edmonds tell the Giant dugout to [firetruck] off?

Dgoody14: Love the fox close ups.

defspec1: Not a good effort by Edmonds there.

ctdial9: He didn’t like his swing ewither

ctdial9: But they got one thanks to Don Denkinger

defspec1: FRod is scuffling

rasputin443556: Bonds is getting tons of activity out there tonight.

ctdial9: 5 POs and a fistful of singles.

Bottom of 7th inning

St. Louis 1, San Francisco 0, Goodwin leads off the inning.

Memphis777: Hey, Drew’s in

defspec1: Drew in RF.

defspec1: Eduardo leaves.

cpro 42: So here’s the question… is Pujols really his claimed age?

Aaron Gleeman: No freaking way.

nymetssuck12: Where’s he from?

DrJamesSidbury: What is his claimed age?

rasputin443556: 21. Just old enough to hit the bars.

Aaron Gleeman: He has a wife and a kid (I think).

DrJamesSidbury: Base 10?

defspec1: From Santo Domingo, claimed Bday of 1/6/1980.

Aaron Gleeman: I would say he is 25-26.

DSzymborsk: I like Francisco Rodriguez, but there’s no way he’s 20.

Aaron Gleeman: I agree

Top of 8th inning

St. Louis 1, San Francisco 0, J.D. Drew leading off.

defspec1: Morris is all the way to 77 pitches; he could go 9.

DrJamesSidbury: He’ll get knocked out in the 8th.

ctdial9: He should have been knocked out in the 6th.

ctdial9: [Firetrucking] Kent.

tybaltgreen: He’ll give up a baserunner and Tony will bring in three relievers to get the outs…

defspec1: double switch - Dunston replaces Goodwin, Eyre pitching.

ctdial9: There’s a nothing exchange.

ctdial9: How was that Goodwin start?

defspec1: 0-3, 2 Ks. Nice job Dusty.

ctdial9: And he didn’t bunt when he should have.

Drew grounds out to first, Renteria up. Worrell in for Eyre.

ctdial9: 3-

ctdial9: Good move

ctdial9: I was worried he was going to leave Eyre in.

rasputin443556: How many degrees between Jim Morris and Kevin Bacon?

Renteria dinker, thrown out at first by Santiago. Marrero at the plate.

Memphis777: How dumb can Edgar be?

DSzymborsk: If Bonds did that, all the morons would be screaming at him.

DrJamesSidbury: Maybe he thought he could con the ump.

ctdial9: Worrell had a shot at it.

defspec1: That was an outstanding play by Benito; my guess is that Edgar thought

it was going foul.

rasputin443556: That was close.

Dgoody14: Jim Morris < - The Rookie with Dennis Quaid <-Wyatt Earp with Kevin

Costner <- DeNiro in Untouchables <-Bacon in Sleepers.

Dgoody14: You could probably get there quicker.

ctdial9: Quaid has to have something closer than that.

Marrero grounds out to 2nd.

defspec1: Another great play by Kent - two in one game.

ctdial9: It was okay. He’s slow. A good 2B gets it easily.

Memphis777: You have to run it out regardless. Kent tried to give up a run with an error earlier, though.

defspec1: They didn’t give him an error on that one.

DrJamesSidbury: Jim (IX) Morris was in Rookie, The (2002) with Beth Grant Beth Grant was in Flatliners (1990) with Kevin Bacon.

Bottom of 8th inning

St. Louis 1, San Francisco 0, Shawon Dunston leading off.

DrJamesSidbury: What are the odds of Dunston walking?

ctdial9: If TLR doesn’t have anyone up, he’s an imbecile.

Dunston strikes out. Kenny Lofton at the plate.

Dgoody14: Man, nice pitch.

defspec1: Barry’s down to 273/619/727

ctdial9: That’s piss-poor hitting at the MLB level.

cpro 42: He needs to swing more.

ctdial9: Um, Dunston, not Bonds.

Memphis777: Wow, what a curveball.

nymetssuck12: I’m getting nervous about this series from a Giant perspective.

DrJamesSidbury: Now i’m reduced to pulling for Lofton. What is this game coming to?

DSzymborsk: They still have to win next 2 if they win this.

ctdial9: And I don’‘t think Morris is pitching both of them

Lofton singles to centerfield. Aurilia up to bat.

ctdial9: Yay!

defspec1: Palermo’s on with Jon Miller right now giving the same explanation of the obstruction play he gave on TV earlier.

nymetssuck12: Yeah, but on the road, Giants w/no real stud pitcher

(not that the Cards have one coming up either) scares me.

DSzymborsk: Home run.

ctdial9: I agree with Dan.

Aurilia singles to leftfield, Lofton advances to second. Jeff Kent up to the plate.

ctdial9: He’s done

DSzymborsk: Well, not a homerun, but a hit.

nymetssuck12: If this [what you do to your finger with a needle] hits into a DP?

Dgoody14: Better start getting Nen ready.

Aaron Gleeman: How about a walk Mr. Kent?

vcdechagn: Nope, those aren’t hankys those are towels.

ctdial9: Gee, TLR doesn’t have anyone up…that’s all you need to know.

DSzymborsk: Veres is up.

mrobertdudek: I would bring in a righty to face Kent, Kline to pitch to Bonds and Isringhausen after that.

rasputin443556: Well, we all know Morris will throw strikes ...

nymetssuck12: Kent should wait for a perfect pitch. Morris has to throw him strikes.

ctdial9: You mean when this [what you do to your finger with a needle] hits into a DP.

Kent gets plunked, bases loaded, Bonds at the plate.

nymetssuck12: YEAH!!!!HE HIT HIM!!!

rasputin443556 (10:49:37 PM): YES!!!!!!!!!

DrJamesSidbury: Now the game gets interesting.

nymetssuck12: Buck would walk him.

defspec1: Kline comes in here.

ctdial9: This is almost surreal.

Aaron Gleeman: Well, here is your chance to get rid of all the “non-clutch” crap


Dgoody14: Well, Bonds gets his chance to blow away the stigma.

ctdial9: Good thing TLR didn’t have anyone up to start the [firetrucking] inning. Kline won’t be ready either

defspec1: Matheny’s stalling.

Bonds flies out to the deepest part of leftfield, Lofton scores, Aurilia advances to 3rd. Benito up to bat.

DSzymborsk: Still a clutch SF.

rasputin443556: SF for SF.

DrJamesSidbury: I was hoping for more.

ctdial9: Look how far that went.

nymetssuck12: I thought for sure we’d see Kline.

Memphis777: That ball’s out in a lot of ballparks.

ctdial9: Nice play by Aurilia.

defspec1: Bonds has gone the other way all three times he’s put a ball in play


GlennSttl: Guys never go second to third in the regular season on that.

Top of 9th inning

St. Louis 1, San Francisco 1, Matheny flies out, Morris at the plate.

ctdial9: PH for Morris here?

RobPetry18: Holy crap. You’ve gotta be kidding me.

ctdial9: WHAT????

Memphis777: WHAT?

ctdial9: TLR is throwing the series

DrJamesSidbury: Who is the alien that is currently possessing TLR?

Memphis777: LaRussa must be playing for a 20-inning game.

mrobertdudek: I cannot believe Morris is at the plate.

ctdial9: This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.

DSzymborsk: LaRussa wants to save his bullpen for the stretch run.

RobPetry18: Of course… his best PH option is Tino Martinez.

rasputin443556: Well, Curt Schilling batted last year, game 7 ... remember that?

ctdial9: That was Curt Schilling.

ctdial9: Throw some hard sliders Worrell.

Memphis777: He’s saving Martinez to PH for Drew.

RobPetry18: Why doesn’t he just have Morris lay down a sacrifice bunt here, while he’s at it?

ctdial9: What a stupid, stupid move.

DrJamesSidbury: Good strategy arguing the strike zone.

Memphis777: What is Morris complaining about?

RobPetry18: McCarver: “Brilliant move by La Russa here. Having him sacrifice with nobody on allows Morris to save his energy for next inning.”

ctdial9: That is just a nutty thing to do.

GlennSttl: Stupid, but a relatively good AB for a pitcher.

Aaron Gleeman: Is that like “runs well for a catcher?”

ctdial9: Congrats, Morris just sucked “a little bit.”

nymetssuck12: Sorry, I was listening to girlfriend story, but I want to be on record as having interrupted her with a holy crap when I saw Morris hitting.

Vina reaches first on bunt single, Miguel Cairo up.

Memphis777: Nice bunt hit.

rasputin443556: Well, nice bunt.

DSzymborsk: Tony’s new plan: Everyone bunts!

Aaron Gleeman: That looked like Kent washing his car.

ctdial9: Vina makes that play.

RobPetry18: Thank goodness Vina reached base so he can be caught stealing.

mrobertdudek: Excellent bunt hit. Wow. Talk about exploiting your opponent’s


Memphis777: Vina runs for the sake of running.

ctdial9: Fortunately, another bad player is up.

RobPetry18: You can’t steal if you don’t reach base!

DrJamesSidbury: I guess Rolen really is unable to play.

ctdial9: Geez, what terrible pitch calling.

Aaron Gleeman: I am gonna predict David Bell will be the hero of this game.

Cairo strikes out looking.


Bottom of 9th inning

St. Louis 1, San Francisco 1, Ramon Martinez pinch-hits for Tim Worrell to start the inning.

ctdial9: Who PHs for Worrell?

RobPetry18: The fact that Cairo is “fundamentally one of the strongest hitters going to right with two strikes” should tell you the importance of that particular skill.

DSzymborsk: Watch TLR pull Morris after 1 batter.

RobPetry18: Prepare for your last half-inning of Cardinals baseball this year, Eric. This will be the half-inning that would’ve made me cry as an impressionable youth.

nymetssuck12: Who was it that said McCarver makes up something that each player does better than anyone in the league?

Martinez fouls out to the catcher. Snow flies out. David Bell singles to center. Shawon Dunston at the plate.

ctdial9: David Bell hit 20 HRs this seasn

Dgoody14: He always looks like he is going to cry.

ctdial9: Shawon-o-meter.

rasputin443556: He could be a hero ...

rasputin443556: I once saw Orel Hershiser walk Shawon Dunston. I was just astonished.

Memphis777: About as astonished as I was when I saw Luis Castillo hit a homer,

I’d imagine.

Dgoody14: I say if Dunston sees many straight pitches, it is a mistake.

ctdial9: Okay stats vs. Morris.

GlennSttl: When did he homer off Morris? 1997?

RobPetry18: If Dunston beats the Cardinals, I’m gonna puke.

ctdial9: Morris seems awfully preoccupied with Bell.

Dunston singles to center, Bell advances to second, Kenny Lofton up.

rasputin443556: Yes!

nymetssuck12: SHAWON

Aaron Gleeman: Here comes Kline.

ctdial9: There was the straight pitch they were warned not to throw.

nymetssuck12: He always was one of my favorite players, even though I realize he sucks.

Aaron Gleeman: Great move letting Morris hit TLR!

ctdial9: Andruw Jones would have caught that

mrobertdudek: Get Kline into the game NOW!

RobPetry18: I’m apoplectic!

Dgoody14: Well, at the least Bonds bats in the 10th.

Memphis777: Uhh…did McCarver just say the Cards were in a prevent defense?

Memphis777: Aren’t all defenses prevent defenses, by definition?

agiacalone: Yes. Otherwise it would be a “facilitate defense.”

Lofton singles to rightfield, Bell scores. Final score, San Francisco 2, St. Louis 1.

nymetssuck12: YES@!!!!!

Aaron Gleeman: ballgame

ctdial9: yees

nymetssuck12: GO BARRY!!!


nymetssuck12: WOO HOO!!!!

DrJamesSidbury: The giants win the pennant


DrJamesSidbury: The giants win the pennant

ctdial9: Woohooo!!!

agiacalone: cool

nymetssuck12: The Giants win the Pennant

RobPetry18): Dammit…nice throw Drew.

vcdechagn: Thanks TLR.

BaseballStuff: The Giants win the pennant!

DSzymborsk: Gints!

ctdial9: Woohoo!!!!!!

DrJamesSidbury: Damn I hate it that Lofton is the hero.

DSzymborsk: U-S-A! U-S-A!

DSzymborsk: Bonds is going to Disneyland!

ctdial9: Do the Angels know what’s coming?

rasputin443556: Omigod, they got killed by Kenny!


Dan Szymborski Posted: October 15, 2002 at 06:00 AM | 5 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606759)
It was a lot of fun. Long, too; the transcript above is trimmed from 63 pages of text.
   2. Aaron Gleeman Posted: October 15, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606767)
All my best lines were cut out!

Just kidding.

I bet that was a pain in butt to edit.
   3. Dennis Posted: October 16, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606777)
I think that if he were to have been throw out at home, he would have been out. Of course, I thought you automatically got one base and it turns out that is only the case if a direct play is being made on you (not the case in the game the other night).

Basically the ump signals obstruction, the ball remains in play and the umpire decides where the runner could have reasonable wound up. Three things can happen now:
1) you don't make it the base the ump thinks you should - you are placed there when the ball is dead
2) you make it to the base - no harm no foul as in game 5
3) you make it farther than the umpires judgement - congrats to you, you are allowed to stay at the base, but while making this advancement you are in jeopardy to be put out.

For instance, if someone hits a ball to the gap and is obstructed rounding first the umpire might reasonably judge the runner would have gotten second base. Now, say during the play the runner makes it to second ayways and tries for third when the SS mishandles the relay throw. If the SS recovers and guns down the runner on his way to third, the out stands.

That is how I see it and remember the rule from memory. If I wrong or forgetting something feel free to correct me.

   4. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 16, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606781)

There, that should end those damn italics!
   5. Mike Emeigh Posted: October 16, 2002 at 12:56 AM (#606786)
I enjoyed this a lot. Thanks. I have a question about the Santiago obstruction call.

Does the rule about "a play" imply that Santiago had a free shot at trying to score?

No. If he'd been put out on the play, he would have been at the mercy of the umpire (see below).

But suppose he's out at home. Does the obstruction automatically let him go back to 3rd, or is it up to the umpire's judgment as to whether the obstruction was the deciding factor?

It's up to the umpire.

I like the "automatic" interpretation myself, but have no idea what the rules actually are.

The rules of baseball are available online here, so you can look 'em up yourself. Rule 7.06(b) covers this:

"If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no further action is possible. The umpire shall then call "Time" and impose such penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction. Under 7.06 (b) when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire's judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call." (emphasis added by me)

I hope that clears it up. (I thought Steve Palermo did a great job of explaining it, too, although the "100% sure" comment was overkill.) If you bookmark the rules page and use the search options available to you, you, too, can be more of a rules expert than 99% of the players and managers.

-- MWE

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