The Primer Team’s 2001 All Star Ballots
We share our All Star ballots. Now it’s your turn.
Last week I asked the regular contributors to the Primer to pass along their
selections for the starting lineups for the All Star Game. Although they quickly
responded, I couldn’t write up the results until today because my wife severely
restricted my computer time shortly after I posted my bobblehead
blog entry.
In total, I received seven thoughtfully crafted ballots. Eight ballots were
submitted, but I had to throw out Dan Szymborski’s Cal Ripken-laden ballotsorry
Dan, Ripken can’t start at every position.
Here’s our selections (including links to each player’s ESPN stats page):
American League
1B: Jason
Giambi (7)
2B: Roberto
Alomar (6), Bret
Boone (1)
3B: Troy
Glaus (7)
SS: Alex
Rodriguez (7)
C: Jorge
Posada (4), Ivan
Rodriguez (3)
OF: Manny
Ramirez (6), Juan
Gonzalez (6), Ichiro
Suzuki (4), Bernie
Williams (3), Mike
Cameron (1), Raul
Mondesi (1)
DH: Edgar
Martinez (5), Ellis
Burks (1), Dante
Bichette (1)
SP: Pedro
Martinez (5), Roger
Clemens (2)
National League
1B: Todd
Helton (6), Ryan
Klesko (1)
2B: Jeff
Kent (4), Craig
Biggio (3)
3B: Albert
Pujols (3), Chipper
Jones (3), Robin
Ventura (1)
SS: Rich
Aurilia (7)
C: Mike
Piazza (4), Charles
Johnson (2), Paul
LoDuca (1)
OF: Barry
Bonds (7), Luis
Gonzalez (7), Lance
Berkman (4), Sammy
Sosa (2), J.D.
Drew (1)
DH: Sammy
Sosa (3), Lance
Berkman (1), Mark
McGwire (1), Mike
Hampton (1)
SP: Greg Maddux
(3), Curt
Schilling (2), Randy
Johnson (1)
Miscellaneous Observations
Unanimous picks: Jason Giambi, Troy Glaus, Alex Rodriguez, Rich Aurilia
Picks made while looking to the past: Mike Piazza, Ellis Burks, Mark McGwire
Picks made while looking to the future: Paul LoDuca, Lance Berkman, Albert
Pujols, J.D. Drew
Picks made from the DL: Pedro Martinez
Picks made while drinking and clutching a Mets blanket: Robin Ventura
Solo Picks: Ryan Klesko, Robin Ventura, Paul LoDuca, Randy Johnson, Raul Mondesi,
Mike Camerson, Dante Bichette, Bret Boone, Ellis Burks
Players not selected to All Star Teams: Greg Maddux, Dante Bichette, Robin
Ventura, Ellis Burks
Picks made to aggravate Chris Dial: Dante Bichette
Ballots containing Bobby Valentine’s favorite player: 0
Sentimental selections: Mark McGwire
Picks made while suffering from severe head trauma: Ellis Burks
Picks made which suggest we are smarter than Bobby Valentine: Greg Maddux
Picks which make my skin crawl: Roger Clemens
Picks made while channeling Mike Hampton’s agent: Mike Hampton
Closest contests: Berkman/Sosa, Posada/Rodriguez, Kent/Biggio, Suzuki/Williams
Complete Ballots
| American
League |
|
Enders |
Fraser |
Forman |
Dial |
| C |
Jorge Posada |
Ivan Rodriguez |
Jorge Posada |
Jorge Posada |
| 1B |
Jason Giambi |
Jason Giambi |
Jason Giambi |
Jason Giambi |
| 2B |
Roberto Alomar |
Roberto Alomar |
Roberto Alomar |
Roberto Alomar |
| 3B |
Troy Glaus |
Troy Glaus |
Troy Glaus |
Troy Glaus |
| SS |
Alex Rodriguez |
Alex Rodriguez |
Alex Rodriguez |
Alex Rodriguez |
| OF |
Juan Gonzalez |
Mike Cameron |
Juan Gonzalez |
Bernie Williams |
| OF |
Ichiro Suzuki |
Ichiro Suzuki |
Bernie Williams |
Juan Gonzalez |
| OF |
Raul Mondesi |
Manny Ramirez |
Manny Ramirez |
Manny Ramirez |
| DH |
Edgar Martinez |
Edgar Martinez |
Edgar Martinez |
Ellis Burks |
| SP |
Roger Clemens |
Pedro Martinez |
Pedro Martinez |
Pedro Martinez |
| |
|
Malcolm |
Santerre |
Furtado |
|
| C |
Jorge Posada |
Ivan Rodriguez |
Ivan Rodriguez |
|
| 1B |
Jason Giambi |
Jason Giambi |
Jason Giambi |
|
| 2B |
Bret Boone |
Robbie Alomar |
Roberto Alomar |
|
| 3B |
Troy Glaus |
Troy Glaus |
Troy Glaus |
|
| SS |
Alex Rodriguez |
Alex Rodriguez |
Alex Rodriguez |
|
| OF |
Bernie Williams |
Juan Gonzalez |
Juan Gonzalez |
|
| OF |
Juan Gonzalez |
Ichiro Suzuki |
Ichiro Suzuki |
|
| OF |
Manny Ramirez |
Manny Ramirez |
Manny Ramirez |
|
| DH |
Edgar Martinez |
Dante Bichette |
Edgar Martinez |
|
| SP |
Pedro Martinez |
Roger Clemens |
Pedro Martinez |
|
| |
| National
League |
|
Enders |
Fraser |
Forman |
Dial |
| C |
Paul LoDuca |
Mike Piazza |
Mike Piazza |
Mike Piazza |
| 1B |
Ryan Klesko |
Todd Helton |
Todd Helton |
Todd Helton |
| 2B |
Craig Biggio |
Jeff Kent |
Jeff Kent |
Jeff Kent |
| 3B |
Albert Pujols |
Chipper Jones |
Chipper Jones |
Robin Ventura |
| SS |
Rich Aurilia |
Rich Aurilia |
Rich Aurilia |
Rich Aurilia |
| OF |
Barry Bonds |
Barry Bonds |
Barry Bonds |
Barry Bonds |
| OF |
Luis Gonzalez |
Luis Gonzalez |
Luis Gonzalez |
Luis Gonzalez |
| OF |
Lance Berkman |
Sammy Sosa |
Sammy Sosa |
J.D. Drew |
| DH |
Mike Hampton |
Mark McGwire |
Lance Berkman |
Sammy Sosa |
| SP |
Greg Maddux? |
Randy Johnson |
Greg Maddux |
Greg Maddux |
| |
|
Malcolm |
Santerre |
Furtado |
|
| C |
Charles Johnson |
Mike Piazza |
Charles Johnson |
|
| 1B |
Todd Helton |
Todd Helton |
Todd Helton |
|
| 2B |
Craig Biggio |
Craig Biggio |
Jeff Kent |
|
| 3B |
Albert Pujols |
Chipper Jones |
Albert Pujols |
|
| SS |
Rich Aurilia |
Rich Aurilia |
Rich Aurilia |
|
| OF |
Barry Bonds |
Barry Bonds |
Barry Bonds |
|
| OF |
Luis Gonzalez |
Luis Gonzalez |
Luis Gonzalez |
|
| OF |
Lance Berkman |
Lance Berkman |
Lance Berkman |
|
| DH |
N/A |
Sammy Sosa |
Sammy Sosa |
|
| SP |
Curt Schilling |
SP Curt Schilling |
Greg Maddux |
|
Jim Furtado
Posted: July 10, 2001 at 06:00 AM |
16 comment(s)
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1. James Fraser Posted: July 10, 2001 at 12:09 AM (#603982)Who is having the best season that I don't consider a fluke... and then some subjective favouritism (its an All-Star game, relax).
My Selections:
AL Infield:
Giambi, Alomar, Glaus, Rodriguez
Giambi is having a season for the ages, with almost 40 more walks than the next best firstbaseman (Sweeny). Sure Brett Boone is getting a lot of credit, but Alomar's season has been just as good and is more in character with his career. As Rob Neyer has discussed recently, Troy Glaus, not David Bell is the class of the AL Hot Corner. Alex Rodriguez continues to be the most valuable player in baseball.
NL Infield:
Helton, Kent, Chipper, Aurilia
Ryan Klesko is having a great year, but Todd Helton is still my pick (even after deflating his stats). Craig Biggio is declining, but still deserves it. He already has 16 HBP, ouch! Chipper Jones edges out Albert Pujols because their values have been similar and Chipper's is more in character. There are absolutely no NL SS having a good year except Rich Aurillia, whose season is completely out of nowhere. Once Rafael Furcal gets over his sophomore slump, expect him to fill the spot in years to come.
AL Outfield:
Ramirez, Cameron, Ichiro
Yes, Ramirez has played mostly DH, but I wanted to get Edgar Martinez on the team too. Mike Cameron's defense and playing time makes up for Bernie Williams' better production. Ichiro's been good, albeit overrated, but I still want to see him.
NL Outfield:
Bonds, Gonzalez, Sosa
So it might not be the best fielding unit in the world, but these are the three players I want to see in the NL outfield. All are having great years. Also, there isn't a CF having a great year (Edmonds is okay, and Andruw has been disappointing).
AL Battery:
Pudge, Pedro Martinez throwing Left handed
Posada's having a good year, but I still want Pudge out there. Martinez might have a bum shoulder, but he's so far ahead of the rest of the league when he's on that I'd rather have him out there throwing with his off hand.
NL Battery:
Piazza, Randy Johnson
Piazza is a great hitter, and while he's a catcher his hitting will
continue to make him the best at that position. I had to overlook my
personal favourite, John Burkett, for the Big Unit. Johnson already has 189 K's, and is striking out 13.4 batters per 9 innings.
AL DH:
Edgar Martinez
NL DH:
Mark McGwire
Edgar because he's having a great season. McGwire because he's capable of having one.
CATCHER: Jorge Posada
Who got picked: Ivan Rodriguez
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Jorge Posada
Who should get picked: Posada,
Not quite All-Stars but worthy of a mention: Robert Fick, Shawn Wooten
Posada is having a better year than I-Rod, and he?s also managed to stay healthier.
That?s not a ?scientific? evaluation of performance, but you can?t help your team if you can?t play. (At least most of the players in MLB fit that description?)
?FIRST BASEMAN: Jason Giambi
Who got picked: John Olerud
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Jason Giambi, Mike Sweeney
Who should get picked: Giambi, Sweeney, Jim Thome, Fred McGriff
I like Olerud, but he?s having about the sixth/seventh best year among AL first basemen. Where the A?s will be next year without Giambi isn?t a pretty picture.
SECOND BASEMAN: Bret Boone
Who got picked: Boone
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Roberto Alomar
Not quite an All-Star but worthy of a mention: Frank Menechino
I?m amused that the sabermetric types had to steer away from Boone. Alomar is having a great year, and it might be just a tad better depending on how you slice the numbers. But All-Star selections are not necessarily about science.
When the performance is this close, I say go with the man who?s doing something out of the ordinary. It?s not like Alomar is going to be left off the squad?
SHORTSTOP: Alex Rodriguez
Who got picked: Rodriguez
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Derek Jeter, Cristian Guzman
Who should get picked: Jose Valentin
I?m not completely sure than Guzman will get picked, but there may well be a sentiment to give the surprising AL Central leaders a little more representation.
They?ll get at least one pitcher on the squad.
Jose Valentin is having a great year, and has played three positions for the Sox, who are on the fringes of the wild card race after a terrible swoon in May. He should be there, though the Sox? representative is almost certainly going to be Magglio Ordonez.
THIRD BASEMAN: Troy Glaus
Who got picked: Cal Ripken
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Troy Glaus
Who should get picked? Glaus, Jeff Conine
The same logic that operates for Valentine works for Conine as well.
My suspicion is that Ripken will get an at-bat and will be replaced by Glaus for the rest of the game.
OUTFIELDERS: Manny Ramirez, Bernie Williams, Juan Gonzalez
Who got picked: Ramirez, Gonzalez, Ichiro Suzuki
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Bernie Williams, Ellis Burks, Raul Mondesi, Magglio Ordonez
Who should get picked: Williams, Burks, Mondesi, Ordonez
DESIGNATED HITTER: Edgar Martinez
Who got picked: Edgar Martinez
STARTING PITCHER: Pedro Martinez
Who?ll get picked: Roger Clemens
It?s hard not to put the entire Seattle bullpen on the All-Star team. Sasaki will go, but Arthur Rhodes and Jeff Nelson have been at least as good.
<h3>National League</h3>
CATCHER: Charles Johnson
Who got picked: Mike Piazza
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Charles Johnson
Who should get picked: Johnson, Paul LoDuca
The voters fell asleep on this one, and even some of sabermetric types gave ?Blondie? the nod on rep, not on 2001 performance. C.J. is the choice.
Too soon to tell if Paul LoDuca is for real, but he?s been spectacular and useful for the Dodgers, who?ve needed a lift.
FIRST BASEMAN: Todd Helton
Who got picked: Helton
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Jeff Bagwell, Ryan Klesko
Who should get picked: Klesko, Mark Grace
Yeah, we talked about Mark Grace earlier. That ?last hurrah? season deserves some recognition. The Padres are only going to get one of Klesko or Nevin, I suspect.
SECOND BASEMAN: Craig Biggio
Who got picked: Jeff Kent
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Craig Biggio,
Who should get picked: Biggio, Jay Bell
Biggio and Kent are very close so far this year, and Bell isn?t too far behind.
They should all be there.
SHORTSTOP: Rich Aurilia
Who got picked: Aurilia
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Neifi Perez
Who should get picked: Jimmy Rollins
There?s no really satisfying backup pick for NL SS. I?d go with the rookie, if for no other reason that it gives the game a little more spice when rookies are on the squad. That, and Rollins has a tremendous success rate in stolen base attempts?not statistically significant, perhaps, but ?fun? nonetheless.
THIRD BASEMAN: Albert Pujols
Who got picked: Chipper Jones
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Albert Pujols
Who should get picked: Pujols, Phil Nevin
What the heck?Pujols is primarily a third baseman, especially now that Big Mac is back, and he?s had a terrific half-season. Chipper?s going to start, of course, but so far Albert?s season is a bit better.
OUTFIELDERS: Barry Bonds, Luis Gonzalez, Lance Berkman
Who got picked: Bonds, Gonzalez, Sosa
BACKUPS
Who?ll get picked: Vladimir Guerrero, Brian Giles, Cliff Floyd, Larry Walker
Who should get picked: Guerrero, Giles, Floyd, Lance Berkman
I?m not sure Lance Berkman will get selected, given the logjam of familiar names to choose from. That would be a shame.
STARTING PITCHER: Curt Schilling
Who?ll get picked: Greg Maddux
QMAX throws a blanket over Maddux, Schilling, Randy Johnson and Chan Ho Park.
I like Schilling?s K/W ratio (sabermetrically correct) and his won-loss record (sabermetrically verboten). Whjat the heck, let him be the starter?you?re gonna get Maddux in the game anyway.
C: Pudge Rodriguez
1B: Jason Giambi
2B: Roberto Alomar
SS: Alex Rodriguez
3B: Troy Glaus
LF: Manny Ramirez
CF: Ichiro
RF: Juan Gonzalez
DH: Edgar Martinez
SP: Tim Hudson
CL: Troy Percival
Comments: Tim Hudson (career record: 40-13; third in the 2000 Cy Young balloting) being home on All-Star Weekend is the baseball equivalent of political imprisonment. Also, I'm not one of those embittered Bostonians with an ax to grind, but I wouldn't start Clemens in an effort to spite Joe Torre.
National League
C: Charles Johnson
1B: Todd Helton
2B: Jeff Kent
SS: Rich Aurilia
3B: Wicked Chippah Jones
LF: Barry Bonds
CF: Sammy Sosa
RF: Larry Walker
DH: Luis Gonzalez
SP: Randy Johnson
CL: Billy Wagner
Comments: Wow, there are no closers. Billy Wagner was the only closer I had on my 30-man roster. Rich Aurilia is having a remarkably out-of-context season, and in a few years, I think Jimmy Rollins can be the perennial starter at short. Lance Berkman has had one of the five best half-seasons in 2001, but he lacks the comparative track record of my starters.
W L IP H BB SO ERA
Clemens 12 1 124.1 115 38 122 3.55
Pitcher 2 8 5 111.2 101 35 58 3.22
Pitcher 2 is Jason Johnson of the Baltimore Orioles. His inferior record should be no surprise, considering that he is supported by a lineup that has featured such heavyweight sluggers as Greg Myers, Jeff Conine, Mike Kinkade, Delino DeShields, Jay Gibbons, and Chris Richard in the 3-4-5 spots. Of course, he also has far fewer strikeouts, which obviously has not detracted from his ability to prevent the opposition from scoring runs, which is what pitching in the end is all about. (And anyway, he hasn't given up any more baserunners than Clemens has, either.) So honestly, I don't see how a reasonable argument could be made that Clemens has been much better than Johnson so far this season. But I'd like to hear someone try.
David Jones
<ital>Alomar is a tough call over Boone; and Glaus only goes because there is no one else.<ital>
AL outfield: Manny, Bernie, Juan Gone
<ital>Sorry Ichiro.<ital>
AL battery: Pudge and Pedro
<ital> Even on the DL, I like Pedro.<ital>
NL infield: Helton, Kent, Aurilia, Pujols.
<ital> Funny that a below average team like the Giants has three concensus starters.<ital>
NL outfield: Sosa, Berkman, and Bonds.
<ital>As everyone has said, there are a lot of good choices for the NL outfield.<ital>
NL Battery: Maddux and Lo Duca.
<ital>I might as well punish Piazza for that hairdo.<ital>
American League
Catcher-Jorge Posada
First Base-Mike Sweeney
Second Base-Roberto Alomar
Third Base-Troy Glaus
Shortstop-Alex Rodriguez
Outfield-Manny Ramirez
Outfield-Juan Gonzalez
Outfield-Ichiro Suzuki
Designated Hitter-Edgar Martinez
Starting Pitcher-Joe Mays (would be Pedro if he wasn't hurt)
National League
Catcher-Paul LoDuca
First Base-Ryan Klesko
Second Base-Jeff Kent
Third Base-Albert Pujols
Shortstop-Rich Aurilia
Outfield-Barry Bonds
Outfield-Luis Gonzalez
Outfield-Sammy Sosa
Designated Hitter-Lance Berkman
Starting Pitcher-Greg Maddux
David
? I didn't consider injured (Pedro) or "injured" players for selection
? Even with that in mind, I kept to the requirement of representing every team no matter how putrid (that is, I had to choose replacements for Tampa Bay and the Mets)
? I stuck to true position for my starting outfielders
? I kicked Cal Ripken upstairs to Honorary Captain/Pinch Hitter to match Tony Gwynn for the sentimental folks out there.
AMERICAN LEAGUE
Honorary Captain: Cal Ripken
STARTERS: C Ivan Rodriguez, 1B Jason Giambi, 2B Brett Boone, 3B Troy Glaus, SS Alex Rodriguez, LF Manny Ramirez, CF Bernie Williams, RF Ichiro Suzuki, DH Edgar Martinez, SP Roger Clemens.
BULLPEN: Freddy Garcia, Tim Hudson, Andy Pettitte, Brad Radke, Keith Foulke, Jeff Nelson, Troy Percival, Kazuhiro Sasaki, Mike Stanton.
BENCH: C Jorge Posada, Robert Fick (need somebody from Detroit, and he beats out Clark & Higginson); 1B Jim Thome, Mike Sweeney, Fred McGriff; 2B Roberto Alomar; 3B Jose Valentin (gotta put him somewhere); SS Christian Guzman; OF Shannon Stewart, Juan Gonzalez, Matt Lawton.
NATIONAL LEAGUE
Honorary Captain: Tony Gwynn
STARTERS : C Paul LoDuca ; 1B Ryan Klesko (1094 OPS Away more impressive than Helton's 1239 OPS at Coors) ; 2B Jeff Kent; 3B Larry Jones; SS Rich Aurilia; LF Barry Bonds; CF Jim Edmonds; RF Sammy Sosa ; DH Luis Gonzalez; SP Randy Johnson .
BULLPEN: Jon Lieber, Greg Maddux, Wade Miller, Matt Morris, Chan Ho Park, Ben Sheets, Antonio Alfonseca, Armando Benitez, Robb Nen, Billy Wagner.
BENCH: C Mike Piazza; 1B Todd Helton, Sean Casey; 2B Craig Biggio; 3B Albert Pujols; SS Jimmy Rollins; OF Lance Berkman, Cliff Floyd, Brian Giles, Vladimir Guerrero.
AL
--------
C - Jorge Posada
1B - Doug Mientkiewicz and Jim Thome'
2B - Frank Menechino
SS - Alex Rodriguez
3B - Troy Glaus
OF - Rusty Greer
OF - Carl Everett
OF - Ichiro Suzuki
DH - Russ Branyan
NL
--------
C - Jason Kendall
1B - Sean Casey
2B - Edgardo Alfonzo for awhile, then write-in votes for Chad Meyers
SS - Rich Aurilia
3B - Scott Rolen
OF - Barry Bonds
OF - Lance Berkman
OF - Tim Raines until he retire, then Giles
If you're looking for my criteria, it will be very hard to find. My all-star picks are guys I like and while I like good seasons, not all the players I like and would like to see are even having good seasons or even in the majors.
What good starting pitcher doesn't know how to pitch with good run support? To me, that seems like trying to justify a statistic (wins) that is invalid as a means of evaluating a pitcher's performance. For years, when Mike Mussina had the fourth or fifth best winning percentage in baseball history, writers explained the discrepancy (after all, Mussina, while a good pitcher, is not the fourth or fifth best in history by a long shot) by saying that Mussina "knew how to win." Then last year he has a fine season and goes 11-15. I guess he "forgot how to win," or more likely, his team didn't score any runs for him. Likewise, mediocre pitchers like Charles Nagy and Dave Burba have posted excellent win totals while giving up lots of runs. Is there anyone out there that wants to say those guys are really any good? Take Burba. Even before he started getting shelled in the last few weeks, the guy had something like an 8-2 record with an ERA over 5. If he had been pitching for the Orioles, he would have been 2-8, and in danger of losing his spot in the rotation. So, I disagree. I think that as long as we look at ERA and innings pitched, wins can, and should, be completely discounted.
David
Most of the top pitchers in the A.L. have started 18 or 19 games so far, but the only two guys with an ERA below three have started just 15 games (Pedro) and 9 games (Wakefield). If you stick to guys who've pitched all year, then you have 11 pitchers with ERAs of between 3.02 and 3.58. When there's that little difference in their performance, I'd rather have the guy who will win me 12 ballgames.
Eric
Your points are well taken. I find it interesting, though, that this question of "real value" only seems to relate to pitchers, not hitters or position players. That is, pitchers have these two sets of statistics, those that address how well they prevent runs (ERA, baserunners per nine innings, etc.) and those that address how many "games they actually won."
Not so with hitters. There we only have the statistics that address run production, and you don't really hear people talk about All-Star Selections by saying things like "we don't know what Mike Sweeney's actual value is, because his team hasn't won games." Of course, with calculators and a total baseball, I think there ARE ways to figure out what a players actual value is,without having to resort to phony statistics like "wins" and "losses."
David
"Wins" is a statistic that tells us something about a pitcher's value, and also tells us a lot about what kind of offense his team has. "RBI" is a statistic that tells us something about what kind of hitter a guy is, but tells us more about what kind of offense his team has. To one degree or another EVERY stat, from runs scored to ERA to on-base percentage, is reflective of the other players on the team. I don't see why wins are any less meaningful than runs scored or RBI.
I liked your story in the All-Star game program, by the way.
Eric
I agree that RBI is a flawed statistic, but it isn't quite as grandiose a stat as wins. If you want to justify picking Clemens over Johnson or Mays or Hudson or Mussina (irrespective of the awful start he put in tonight) by giving him an extra hundredth of an inch for his wins, I don't have a problem with that. I guess my only point would be that wins are the most abused statistic in baseball, that imply too much while reflecting too little. Too often have I heard ridiculous statements about how certain pitchers (they always seem to be on teams with great offenses) "just win" even though their other numbers aren't that great--Wells, Burba, guys like that. Stats like RBI, runs, etc., while they can be misleading, only refer to one event within a baseball game, while wins and losses seem like stats that try to interpret complex baseball games in absurdly simplistic ways.
I would say I liked your articles in the All-Star Game Program, but I haven't received my copies yet.
David
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