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   1. villageidiom Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:24 AM (#5589904)
D’oh! D’oh! D’oh! - Yup, we need Homers (see what I did there?  Top notch stuff at Sox Therapy).
You shall be awarded one Therapoint.

They need more offense. I'm not sold that they need more HR specifically, but I'd welcome more HR.

You look at the Yankees and Astros. Relative to the Red Sox, last year the Yankees hit 73 more HR, and scored exactly 73 more runs. More is better, but think about that... The Yankees' marginal HR were all solo HR. (That's not really how this works; Boston hit lots of doubles, some of which translated to runs.) Relative to the league, the Yankees' marginal HR came mostly in situations where they didn't matter. They won games 12-4 instead of 10-4. But Houston... goodness. They scored a lot more runs. Yes, they hit more HR. But they hit more doubles, too, and Boston isn't the easiest team to out-double. The Astros simply hit more. I'd rather we not focus in on HR specifically.

I think there's only so much you can realistically improve pitching. You can improve defense, but it usually comes in an unfavorable tradeoff on offense. The biggest room for improvement is on offense - despite Boston having had an above-average offense. HR, sure, let's have 'em. But Boston doesn't need another hitter who will capitalize on a pitcher making mistakes. If a pitcher is making mistakes, Boston will win anyway. What Boston needs, more than anything, is someone who can hit even when the opposition isn't making mistakes.
   2. villageidiom Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5590053)
...oh, and a stick of butter.
   3. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5590083)
To me, the obvious move for the Red Sox is to move Hanley to 1B, and sign JD martinez to DH.

But MLBTR has them making Bradley available in trade talks, so they seem to think they need to clear a corner OF spot. Is that for Martinez?
   4. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5590096)
There is talk of the Sox pursuing Martinez AND Hosmer. That would surprise me but if they did that then they could move Benintendi to center and trade JBJ for a reliever or middle infielder.

As to vi's point in #1 I agree generally that the Sox shouldn't focus too much on homers but all things equal I think a home run hitter would be good. That ability to change a game in one swing puts a big onus on stringing together hits which is a tough thing to do against modern bullpens.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5590228)
There is talk of the Sox pursuing Martinez AND Hosmer. That would surprise me but if they did that then they could move Benintendi to center and trade JBJ for a reliever or middle infielder.

That would be odd. I think Ramirez 1B, Martinez DH, and Bradley OF, generates more wins than Hosmer 1B, Ramirez DH, and Martinez OF, and costs $100M less.
   6. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 11, 2017 at 03:31 PM (#5590344)
I don't know that you're wrong but;

1 - Hanley is gone after this year so the Sox are likely to be hunting for a bat next winter. Getting Hosmer and Martinez now would make that unnecessary.

2 - Hosmer/Ramirez/Martinez/Good Reliever is the true offset to Ramirez/Martinez/Bradley.

FWIW I'd prefer Ramirez/Martinez/Bradley to trading JBJ. There is something great about JBJ as a trade chip though. He's really just a classic baseball deal. It's not a money thing, he's good enough to be wanted, but not so good that he's indispensable. A lot of teams (including the Sox) could use him and he should bring back a good but not great return.
   7. Textbook Editor Posted: December 11, 2017 at 04:42 PM (#5590397)
Not sure where to put this but... Some of the pitching depth may well not be there come March/April:

Wright arrested for domestic assault
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5590401)
2 - Hosmer/Ramirez/Martinez/Good Reliever is the true offset to Ramirez/Martinez/Bradley.


Man, I guess. But I'd never trade a quality everyday player for a reliever, no matter how good.
   9. PreservedFish Posted: December 11, 2017 at 05:17 PM (#5590412)
2 - Hosmer/Ramirez/Martinez/Good Reliever is the true offset to Ramirez/Martinez/Bradley.


Wait, why? I get that losing Bradley returns talent of some sort, but on the other hand you could use the Hosmer salary savings to just buy a damn reliever.
   10. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 11, 2017 at 08:48 PM (#5590500)
Outside of Jose, who Hosmer must have compromising photos of, I can't think of any Sox fan who wants this guy for the price he'll command.

And there sits Santana, a 1B who has never been below average. An on base machine with good gap power, 31 years young(well 32 at the start of the season), who isn't going to cost you prospects or cost controlled players and will probably sign for 4 years or less at less then $20 mil per year.

He is far and away the most logical choice for this team. Last I checked, we already have a good outfield and there is no way I'd include Bradley in an Abreu trade.
   11. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5590523)
It doesn’t have to be a reliever for JBJ, and believe me, I don’t want to deal him. But he’s a guy who you can trade without hurting yourself too badly. Benintendi and Devers are guys I’d rather not deal but JBJ I can see a deal for the right price.

Hosmer I like largely because of his age. I don’t think he’s going to be a superstar but I think he’s going to be a good player on a regular basis. I think he’s the safest option out there.
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5590524)
Hosmer I like largely because of his age. I don’t think he’s going to be a superstar but I think he’s going to be a good player on a regular basis. I think he’s the safest option out there.

How is a guy who has posted 1 WAR and 0.8 WAR, two of the last 4 seasons, safe?
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5590525)
Wait, why? I get that losing Bradley returns talent of some sort, but on the other hand you could use the Hosmer salary savings to just buy a damn reliever.

You could buy 3.
   14. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 11, 2017 at 10:42 PM (#5590539)
Hosmer I like largely because of his age. I don’t think he’s going to be a superstar but I think he’s going to be a good player on a regular basis. I think he’s the safest option out there.


Over the years your assessment of players has been pretty much in line with my thinking, however this one I have to disagree with you. I just think for the money and years he's going to ask for, the risk is just too great. Sure if he'll sign for like 5/90, then that's palatable. However he'll want 7 years and at least $140 mil and that has disaster written all over it.

How would you feel about Santana? Of course my wishcasting of somehow DD coming home with Joey Votto for Christmas is always a long shot!
   15. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 11, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5590550)
I like Santana, I’d take him in a heartbeat.
   16. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 13, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5591811)
I like Santana, I’d take him in a heartbeat.


Sign Santana, play him at 1st, and make sure Hanley does NOT get his magic number to guarantee 2019. Then move Santana to DH, Devers to 1st, and sign Machado for 3rd. Leave the outfield alone and keep them cheap, the Sox will need to find a closer in 2019 and replace Pomeranz (assuming Kimbrel and Pom are not extended).
   17. Nasty Nate Posted: December 13, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5591829)
Sign Santana, play him at 1st, and make sure Hanley does NOT get his magic number to guarantee 2019. Then move Santana to DH, Devers to 1st, and sign Machado for 3rd. Leave the outfield alone and keep them cheap, the Sox will need to find a closer in 2019 and replace Pomeranz (assuming Kimbrel and Pom are not extended).
Machado has beef with the Sox and (supposedly) wants to go back to SS. My version is the same as yours, except move Santana/Devers to DH/1B a year later and sign Arenado for 3B at that time. DH for the gap year is TBD.
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5592647)
Silverman in the Herald has sources that say the Sox want BOTH Hosmer and Martinez. He speculates that Hanley would be out in this situation, not JBJ.
   19. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 14, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5592652)
If 18 comes to pass I will quite literally dance a little jig.
   20. Textbook Editor Posted: December 14, 2017 at 03:11 PM (#5592776)
If #18 comes to pass they're eating Hanley's salary in a trade dump, right? Only thing I can think of--I don't see them releasing him, and it seems... unlikely that they'd keep him around to get 300 ABs as a 3x a week DH/1B type.

But who knows. It is silly season, after all.
   21. Nasty Nate Posted: December 14, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5592785)
Yes, presumably they would trade Hanley by either taking back a bad contract or sending money along with him.
   22. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5593298)
What is the generally agreed upon level of play for Hosmer - 1-4 WAR? To me that type of player shouldn't tie up a long term roster spot, unless they are in development and basically free (i.e. JBJ). I would much rather the Sox take another flier on a 0-2 WAR guy like Moreland or Morrison and wake until a better FA fit is in play than just sign Hosmer because he is the 'best' at his position.
   23. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5593335)
I would much rather the Sox take another flier on a 0-2 WAR guy like Moreland or Morrison and wake until a better FA fit is in play than just sign Hosmer because he is the 'best' at his position.

Who iin the free agent pipeline is going to be better than Hosmer? Maybe I missed someone, but I see a bunch of older players who may not add to their value in 2018. The dilemma seems to be that Hosmer is likely better than the other alternatives, at least for the next couple of years, and will cost some money, but it's not like that money comes from the fans 401(k) accounts.
   24. Nasty Nate Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:16 PM (#5593346)
and will cost some money, but it's not like that money comes from the fans 401(k) accounts.
Right, but even for high-spending teams, money spent on one player affects willingness to spend on others. E.G. If the Sox hadn't blundered away a chunk of payroll on Hanley & Sandoval, they might have Edwin Encarnacion instead, or Lester, etc.
   25. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5593361)
and will cost some money, but it's not like that money comes from the fans 401(k) accounts.


Note I intentionally did not say money, but instead am concerned he would tie up the roster spot. Sure, the Sox could dump him a la Fat Panda, but that is less than ideal and probably unlikely. He is more likely to end up like Hanley Ramirez and provide little to no star value, but he *looks* good, and *could* bounce back, so the Sox stick with Hosmer at 1B, turning it into a bit of a wasted opportunity position. The Sox have enough of a young core they should be looking to fill out the roster with high level players - right now 1B and/or DH is the glaring hole on their roster. If there is no star player at that position then be content with a win or two less and see what they can do to buy out some years of Betts instead. Or identify the next hole on the roster - 2B - and fix that.
   26. Nasty Nate Posted: December 15, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5593374)
If there is no star player at that position then be content with a win or two less and see what they can do to buy out some years of Betts instead. Or identify the next hole on the roster - 2B - and fix that.
Good point. Opportunities will always come along to use money to add/retain talent.

Having said that, Santana is signing with the Phillies so I'm expecting the Hosmer to the Sox rumors to come true.
   27. jmurph Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:02 PM (#5593376)
Yeah I think Jose is going to have nailed this offseason when it's all said and done. Which is good, because if it goes south we can all blame him personally (it's not technically your fault, Jose, but Dombrowski doesn't post here).
   28. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5593381)
Having said that, Santana is signing with the Phillies so I'm expecting the Hosmer to the Sox rumors to come true.


Dang it. $60M for 3 years. Would have loved the Sox to do that.
   29. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5593388)
That's fair jmurph.

3/60 for Santana? Damn. Wonder what it would've taken to get him here. I'll admit to getting concerned. I have a feeling DD has some target fixation and is going to whiff here. This is a good team that doesn't need a lot but it does have needs and I don't want other stuff to get missed. Was it 2006 that Theo admitted they got fixated on one player (maybe it was how to deal with Manny) and they wound up doing nothing?
   30. jmurph Posted: December 15, 2017 at 02:39 PM (#5593411)
He wasn't exactly spectacular this year and will turn 32 right after the season starts. Granted this contract is short and not that expensive. Hmmmm.
   31. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 17, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5594010)
I would much rather the Sox take another flier on a 0-2 WAR guy like Moreland or Morrison and wake until a better FA fit is in play than just sign Hosmer because he is the 'best' at his position.

Adrian Gonzalez is available.
   32. JJ1986 Posted: December 18, 2017 at 04:07 PM (#5594634)
.@RedSox sign 1B Mitch Moreland to 2-year deal. #HotStove
   33. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 18, 2017 at 04:19 PM (#5594650)
I’m a bit concerned about what that might represent regarding Martinez/Hosmer.
   34. jmurph Posted: December 18, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5594669)
It's not the most exciting move but this looks like a very good deal:
The Red Sox announced today that they’ve re-signed first baseman Mitch Moreland to a two-year deal that runs through the 2019 season. Moreland, a client of BASH Baseball, will receive a guaranteed $13MM, tweets ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick. Evan Drellich of NBC Sports Boston tweets that Moreland will earn $6.5MM in each of the next two seasons. He can earn another $1MM worth of incentives, per Crasnick.

(From MLB Trade Rumors)

   35. Nasty Nate Posted: December 18, 2017 at 04:47 PM (#5594670)
Just copy all the posts from any Mitch Moreland threads from last December. They still apply, I'm sure.
   36. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: December 18, 2017 at 07:52 PM (#5594770)
Yeah probably. I still expect him to be the backup and it gives Travis and Chavis time to marinate at Pawtucket. They could still sign Hosmer and have Moreland as the backup or Martinez with Hanley at first. If they want to go all in there has been talknthat to sign both they’d deal Hanley so that could happen also.
   37. Bad Fish Posted: December 18, 2017 at 09:54 PM (#5594808)
In a vacuum I was preferring Hosmer over Martinez since Hosmer filled a positional need and is 3 years younger, but they are not paying Moreland $6.5M to be the backup when they have both Travis and Hanley who can play 1st. Moreland is 80% of what Hosmer is for a third of the cost and term and also without the QO penalty and they can afford to dump him if something spectacular comes along.

Unless they have plans to unload Hanley for 25 cents on the dollar AND the price for JDM come down to earth, and I mean 5/90 earth, I doubt Martinez is in their sights anymore. I'm not buying the trade JBJ for Martinez thoughts. Trading Bradley to make room for Martinez is nearly a swap in terms of WAR, it severely downshifts their overall defensive posture, it costs more and has more risk. $25M for a DH is an f'ing waste of money and as a bonus giving Boras the double-fist-pump-finger has to be satisfying.
   38. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: January 01, 2018 at 12:21 AM (#5599181)
Happy New Year Sox fans! Here’s to a third straight division title!!!
   39. toratoratora Posted: January 04, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5601066)
Daniel Bard retired today.
Back in aught ten I had such high hopes for him. He had such potential. Thre so hard. I thought he would be the one to take over for Paps. Instead he got the yips.

His final start in baseball he faced nine batters and recorded only two outs. He walked four and hit two batters for a final line of four runs in two-thirds of an inning.

We had some great arguments about him back in the day. I always hoped for him to find his form, regain that touch.

Baseball is a cruel game.


   40. Toby Posted: January 04, 2018 at 05:52 PM (#5601073)
I have been in the same fantasy baseball league since 1993. It’s a keeper league, so our drafts each year are usually just the top rookies, the latest imports from Cuba or Japan, etc. one year, probably 2010, I needed pitching badly. My first pick was Daniel Bard. My second pick was a guy name of Chris Sale.
Needless to say, I still have Sale. It’s a keeper league, after all.
   41. Morton's Fork Posted: January 08, 2018 at 01:46 PM (#5602770)
Regarding Mitchy Two Bags: I'm elated. He absolutely carried the Sox for the first six or seven weeks of '17, and if he hadn't hurt his toe was headed for 820 - 850 OPS for the season. Very good defense (although, oddly enough, he struggled in that department early on). In Fenway he banged 'em off the wall and dropped 'em into the right/center gap. Good team guy, and he's cheap.

Not at all sure I understand 35 & 36. I think @35: he looks much much better now than a year ago, and @36: he won't be backing up Hanley at 1st, and I don't see the Sox picking up a different 1B. If they go JDM, I think they trade/DFA Ramirez as too high a risk (maybe can't play 1st, maybe can't hit, maybe vests his option thingie). Paying Moreland to play and Hanley not to is still billions less than Hosmer

Also need to chime in on Bard. I too was all in on the guy when he was coming up, and it's a shame things worked for him the way they did. The Sox did not "ruin" him by trying to make him a starter; what happened is the age-old lack-of-ignorance is Blass.
   42. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: January 08, 2018 at 02:10 PM (#5602788)
Regarding Mitchy Two Bags: I'm elated.
Hey look I enjoy the whole "I'm such an enthusiastic Sox fan I make Jose look cynical" schtick as much as the next poster, but this is too much.
   43. Nasty Nate Posted: January 08, 2018 at 02:19 PM (#5602793)
I think @35: he looks much much better now than a year ago
He had the most Mitchingest Morelandish season possible - basically putting up his career rate stats. He looks exactly the same now except a year older.

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