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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

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   1. tfbg9 Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:14 AM (#2977490)
Dice is a thing of beauty when he's clicking.
   2. tfbg9 Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:19 AM (#2977492)
Also, Papelbon's ready to go 2 innings tomorow night if needed.
   3. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:31 AM (#2977498)
I guess I didn't watch the team enough during the season, because I don't understand the absolute doomsday perspective from a number of the Sox fans in these chatters up until the final out is recorded. They don't look as dominant as they have in the past, but I'd cut them some slack until they really #### the bed.
   4. Xander Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:37 AM (#2977499)
Guess who isn't getting swept?
   5. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:44 AM (#2977502)
How could he send Daisuke out there for the 8th?
   6. Answer Guy Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:45 AM (#2977503)
I guess I didn't watch the team enough during the season, because I don't understand the absolute doomsday perspective from a number of the Sox fans in these chatters up until the final out is recorded.


I think I said this in the Chatter, but there are 3 factors at play there.
1. Watching Dice-K pitch, even when he's on, can be a harrowing experience. He's a nibbler who never challenges hitters unless he has to, and sometimes not even then. He tends to get himself into trouble far more often than his front-line stats suggest but for some reason usually finds his way out of it. It seems almost unreal and it's an approach, even if/when it works, is anxiety inducing.
2. This team is built a little differently than we are used to. We grew up watching teams that, when they were good, scored bunches and bunches of runs, featuring lots of extra base hits, such that scoring by the opposition was less of a cause for concern than it seems to be now. (Of course the pitching and the defense are better, but it still feels weird.)
3. Most of us are plenty old enough to remember the time before this current prosperity. In those days, the Sox specialized in teasing its fans before cruelly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory again and again. Old habits die hard, in some cases very hard.

I do not ask for pity but merely offer a possible window into the mindset of Sox fandom.
   7. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:47 AM (#2977504)
Bringing him out for the 8th after a long layoff and a tight 7th and 107 pitches didn’t seem like such a hot idea. But it worked out.

You have a strange definition of "worked out", given that the two batters he faced in the 8th both got hits. Yes, they got out of the 8th without giving up a run, but the decision itself didn't work out.
   8. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:51 AM (#2977506)
It looks like another Red Sox WS victory. Maybe they can win this one in Boston.

I wish I knew more Spanish. "Mean Streets" is on Telefutura.

Also, any of the Spanish speakers catch Manny Ramirez on Republica Deportiva last weekend? I would be interested in what he said to a Spanish language reporter.
   9. Darren Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:57 AM (#2977510)
You have a strange definition of "worked out", given that the two batters he faced in the 8th both got hits. Yes, they got out of the 8th without giving up a run, but the decision itself didn't work out.


You know who else thought sending him out for another inning worked out? That one.
   10. Darren Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:01 AM (#2977515)
Also, any of the Spanish speakers catch Manny Ramirez on Republica Deportiva last weekend? I would be interested in what he said to a Spanish language reporter.



She was asking him about how he felt about Hideki Kuroda and Manny didn't recognize the name immediately. In fact, he got it mixed up with Hideki Okajima. So he answered that he saw him as somewhat of an enemy, and though they had been friends in Boston, he would not still sit down and talk with him. When the reporter tried to clarify who she was talking about, Manny seemed to get more confused and more resolute, insisting that he would not talk with him.
   11. PJ Martinez Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:15 AM (#2977518)
11: Good one.
   12. Chip Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:38 AM (#2977524)
Truly hilarious is #11.
   13. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:45 AM (#2977525)
You have a strange definition of "worked out", given that the two batters he faced in the 8th both got hits. Yes, they got out of the 8th without giving up a run, but the decision itself didn't work out.


Well, by leaving the bullpen with men on base, Okajima and Masterson were able to get of the inning despite facing only two batters. It worked just as Tito planned. :)
   14. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 11, 2008 at 05:55 AM (#2977529)
I am going to break down and admit my ignorance. What was #11 referencing?
   15. Chip Posted: October 11, 2008 at 06:24 AM (#2977534)
I am going to break down and admit my ignorance. What was #11 referencing?


That the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain, unless you're McCain.
   16. Darren Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:00 PM (#2977565)
It was just another case of Manny being Mavericky.
   17. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 11, 2008 at 01:24 PM (#2977569)
Dice was incredibly fun last night.

I think the paradigmatic Dice AB was Gabe Gross in the 7th. With runners on 1st and 3rd, he fell behind 2-0. Having thrown a ridiculous array of pitches on every count during the night, he was able to beat Gross with a fastball down the middle. On 3-1, he went to a changeup and got Gross way out in front. And on the 3-2, he crossed up Gross with a low fastball. Gross appeared to be sitting on something off-speed or breaking, and missed the pitch by half a foot.

Matsuzaka has to be willing to risk walking a pile of batters in order for the strategy to work, and so whether it's worth it overall is certainly an open question, but he mixes up his pitches more effectively than any pitcher I've seen*, and when it works, it's art.

*Pedro mixed up his pitches better, of course, but he had pinpoint control of all three, and never had to worry about walking anyone. Matsuzaka does it with shaky command, which is more impressive in this particular way.
   18. tfbg9 Posted: October 11, 2008 at 02:03 PM (#2977583)
Plus Pedro could basically throw a fastball right down the middle and past you, often even
if you were sitting fastball. Not so much Dice.
   19. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: October 11, 2008 at 02:47 PM (#2977606)
The Red Sox have 3 #1 pitchers right now, if Beckett is healthy. Wow.
   20. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: October 11, 2008 at 04:57 PM (#2977697)
THREE, I say. THREE!!!
   21. OCD SS Posted: October 12, 2008 at 12:59 AM (#2978104)
It took me awhile to realize that the first two games were not being broadcast by the Rays' crew.
   22. Joel W Posted: October 12, 2008 at 01:24 AM (#2978190)
I have to say I'm very excited to see if Dice-K's BABIP is actually a result of his pitching style to some extent. I guess we'll find out as his career goes on, but there's part of me that thinks some of it has to be real. At least, in the same way a knuckleballer has a better BABIP.
   23. Dan Posted: October 12, 2008 at 05:49 AM (#2979732)
Inexcusable managing in game 2 by Francona.

No way in hell Beckett should have started the 5th inning, nevermind stayed in to face Peña and then Longoria too? Batsh¡t insane stupidity.

If Papelbon is only going to be allowed to pitch in 2 frames, and Masterson has to be pulled if he allows a runner because he'd have to face Peña, you have to let Papelbon start the 9th so you still have Masterson for the 11th.

And even after that, choosing Timlin over Byrd is indefensible.
   24. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 12, 2008 at 05:54 AM (#2979738)
And even after that, choosing Timlin over Byrd is indefensible.
Timlin pitched pretty well. I can defend that choice.

The front office and Tito trusted in Beckett tonight, and they were wrong. I also blame Beckett for being such a stubborn idiot - he is simply incapable of adjusting to any change in his stuff. It's not impossible to pitch with a 91-93 mph fastball, a curve, and a cutter. He just has no idea.

And I blame Tito for leaving him in for the 5th. That just made no sense. I was able to accept pitching to Iwamura and the Bossman, thinking that Lopez would face Pena and Manny D would take it from there. Wouldn't be my choice, but I was going to go with it. Shitty Beckett against Pena and Longoria was just throwing the ballgame away.

Sox management was very lucky that the game was still winnable in the fifth inning, and Tito blew it.
   25. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 12, 2008 at 05:55 AM (#2979740)
If Papelbon is only going to be allowed to pitch in 2 frames, and Masterson has to be pulled if he allows a runner because he'd have to face Peña, you have to let Papelbon start the 9th so you still have Masterson for the 11th.
I agree with this, too. (Think I said that in chatter.)
   26. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 12, 2008 at 05:55 AM (#2979741)
It was hard to enjoy the game especially after the fiasco 5th inning. Timlin is a ####### useless #### - why was Byrd not used there? Unacceptable

EDIT - 99% of the blame however I'm pointing at Beckett and Tito.
   27. Darren Posted: October 12, 2008 at 05:56 AM (#2979745)
New thread fellas.

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