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   1. JB H Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:55 AM (#2574088)
I think there's a pretty decent chance that Sabathia's not physically right. 11 walks in two starts when he hasn't walked 5 in a regular season game since 2005 is a pretty bad sign.

Lots of butterflies in my stomach for the next game. Pretty close to a coinflip as to who wins
   2. plink Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:01 AM (#2574097)
So, Ortiz holds the record for BA, OBP, and SLG in a division series now. But overall for post-season series, it falls short of Gary Roenicke's 1983 ALCS: 3-4, 1 HR, 5 BB in 3 games. (And Gehrig's 1928 WS also deserves mention).

Of course, Roenicke then went 0-7, no walks in the WS... Ortiz already is guaranteed a better follow-up.

Hmmm... B-R doesn't seem to list total postseason numbers. Or am I missing something?

In any case, games like this are very, very nice (and rare) in the postseason.
   3. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:03 AM (#2574102)
I have to agree, JB H.

CC just didn't look right. He got lucky with Pedroia in the first and then Lowell's woefull swing on a 3-1 pitch away basically prolonged what would happened in the 3rd.

Manny look szoned in right now, I loved his at bat in the first.

Long way to go however, tomorrows game is going to be amazing!!!
   4. PJ Martinez Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:30 AM (#2574138)
The Sox needed to win this one: Beckett vs. Sabathia in Boston favored them, I think, while Carmona/Schilling gives the Indians the edge tomorrow.

The fact that it was a blowout makes it feel (to me, anyway) like the Sox went up 2-0. But really, they needed to win and should have been expected to. And it only counts once.
   5. Dan Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:38 AM (#2574147)
To bring up the one down point, Gagné started his inning strong and then just looked like he was absolutely struggling about 6 pitches into the inning. He has to be hurt, either his shoulder or his elbow. I like him as a player generally, or at least I did before he lost us 4 (or was it 5?) games in 2 months down the stretch, but seriously how much of an ####### do you have to be to try and hide an injury and remain on the active roster for a playoff team? Is there seriously some team that will sign him without an MRI? Unless they didn't see or hear about tonight's game, I don't see how anyone could possibly make that mistake.

That said, if he can get an MRI and sign an incentive-laden deal of some sort for appearances, IP, ERA or whatever, I'd like to see the Sox try and bring him back, but I'm sure some team hard up for a closer will probably end up signing him.
   6. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:01 AM (#2574167)

That said, if he can get an MRI and sign an incentive-laden deal of some sort for appearances, IP, ERA or whatever, I'd like to see the Sox try and bring him back, but I'm sure some team hard up for a closer will probably end up signing him.


I'd rather get Brian Fuentes out of Colorado. Also, Hitoki Iwase is a must-sign for me.
   7. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:06 AM (#2574171)
Wok won't be happy until the Red Sox have more asian players than Korean league teams.

also, can we please keep Manny? he's kinda insanely awesome.
   8. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:09 AM (#2574182)
Hitoki Iwase has been closing for Chuniuchi for awhile now. The guy's left handed, throws 94, and has a 4:1 k/bb ratio.

Okajima is almost guarenteed to regress next season.
   9. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:08 AM (#2574292)
also, can we please keep Manny? he's kinda insanely awesome.

Judging by the Free Agents available, I'd say its a given.
   10. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 13, 2007 at 11:07 AM (#2574425)
I agree with JBH. I wouldn't say that Sabathia's hurt, necessarily, but I think he's worn down. He broke his career high in IP in early September, and now he's up to 250. He definitely doesn't look right.

I also agree with the general consensus that Gagne actually is hurt. This level of sucking for two and a half months could happen randomly, but the way he's been a mess in every single outing strongly suggests to me that there's been a real qualitative change. His inability to command his fastball or changeup has left him a pretty bad pitcher.

I mentioned this in the Game 3 thread - do you ever remember both Manny and Papi being completely locked in at the same time? It's incredible to watch. They don't look like they'll ever slow down. Of course, they're headed for 0-for-8 against Carmona, one assumes - this is baseball.
   11. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 13, 2007 at 01:01 PM (#2574439)
I mentioned this in the Game 3 thread - do you ever remember both Manny and Papi being completely locked in at the same time? It's incredible to watch. They don't look like they'll ever slow down. Of course, they're headed for 0-for-8 against Carmona, one assumes - this is baseball.

They seemed to be locked in this way virtually every time they faced the Yankees last year and before.

Pitching is one thing, but if Manny and Ortiz are the persistent offensive threats that they have been this postseason, there ain't much point in playing the games. There is no team remaining (indeed, no team I can think of in all of baseball) who can match this particular 1-2 punch when it's working.
   12. Darren Posted: October 13, 2007 at 01:12 PM (#2574444)
Yeah, I've started thinking maybe 240+ IP wasn't such a hot idea for Sabathia. But he had very good velocity last night and in his start against the Yanks. In an interview before last night's game, he said that he felt that he was probably overthrowing in the Yankees game, and thereby getting higher velocity but losing control. Looks like what he did against the Red Sox too.

And I agree with MC. I've never seen both Manny and Ortiz locked in soooo much as they are now.
   13. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 02:23 PM (#2574477)
Vegas has the Sox as 6.5-5 favorites with Schilling on the mound tonight, or 59%.

Beckettt has simply been outstanding, a confidence-inspiring joy to watch. Wow.
   14. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 13, 2007 at 02:25 PM (#2574479)
Is Vegas stupid? They made the Red Sox FAVOURITES with Carmona on the mound?

That being said, Vegas is never stupid, so I wonder what the F!@# they're pulling.
   15. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 02:45 PM (#2574491)
Has Carmona been somewhat lucky this season? I mean he's pitched real good, but is he really this good? Too lazy to look it up all that much...but FIP seems to suggest this over at Fangraphs.com,; his FIP is 3.90.

Vegas is not stupid Wok. The Sox are tough at home, and Schilling is no slouch.
   16. PJ Martinez Posted: October 13, 2007 at 02:58 PM (#2574500)
"he had very good velocity last night and in his start against the Yanks"

Don't fatigued pitchers generally lose control, rather than velocity? Because Sabathia has the latter right now, but not the former.
   17. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 02:59 PM (#2574504)
He looked to be overthrowing a bit? Too many 97's, whereas he usually sits at 94?
   18. Darren Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:04 PM (#2574507)
Well, the guns are juiced, I don't think there's much doubt about that. Every starter is in the high 90s, Lopez is in the high 80s, etc. But even taking that into consideration, Sabathia's velocity was a little higher than expected.
   19. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:15 PM (#2574514)
I see in the Globe that my boy, the real hero of the 2004 playoffs, along with Papi Bellhorn and Schilling, Keith Foulke is planning a comeback after routine elbow surgery. Relief Ace anybody? Lock him up now!
   20. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:20 PM (#2574517)
Has anyone read about whether Francona is thinking about bringing back Beckett in Game 4? I cannot find anything in the Globe, ProJo, or Herald (whose website is a mess) and I didn't watch the press conference.
   21. karlmagnus Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:27 PM (#2574519)
It would be a terrible idea to bring back Beckett for Game 4, which nobody should support except for tfbg9 because of his irrational Wakefield-phobia. Even if Wake's shoulder is gone, we have a perfectly adequate replacement in Lester. Beckett was much better in the ALDS than last night, because he was pitching on long rest. Using him in Game 4 risks a mediocre outing, and then we're in trouble because he might be mediocre again in Game 7 even if we got that far (and even against the Rockies, our chances in the WS with Beckett having pitched in 1/4/7 of the ALCS might not be that great.)

If Wake's shoulder is OK, and tfbg9 takes the evening off, you can expect a commanding performance in Game 4 and a win unless the offense falls completely asleep.
   22. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:40 PM (#2574526)
If Wake's shoulder is OK

How can the team be certain? Wake was god awful in September. I think that if you are going to chalk up his poor starts to injury, then it would take more than two weeks of rest to recover.
   23. karlmagnus Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:42 PM (#2574527)
Wake steadily improved in September and was perfectly decent in his last start and 17th win. This injury appears to be improving itself with time, in which case rest will have improved it more.
   24. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:46 PM (#2574531)
are the guns juiced? the mlb gameday was consistent with the fox gun. i thought beckett was bringing heat last night.

i have to say that the curveballs in the dirt worried me. was that just cold fingers and bad feel, or are we gonna see blisters soon?
   25. Darren Posted: October 13, 2007 at 03:50 PM (#2574533)
It would be a terrible idea to bring back Beckett for Game 4, which nobody should support except for tfbg9 because of his irrational Wakefield-phobia. Even if Wake's shoulder is gone, we have a perfectly adequate replacement in Lester. Beckett was much better in the ALDS than last night, because he was pitching on long rest.


Longer rest? Last night he was pitching on 9 days rest. In the ALDS he had 6 days.

Beckett in game 4 after an 80 pitch outing is perfectly reasonable, and you have to think that they're at least considering it because they pulled him after 6.
   26. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:09 PM (#2574539)
km-even I don't support it, this Beckett on short rest business.

BTW, is your handle a reference to a character in Bergman's Smiles of a Summer Night ?
   27. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:14 PM (#2574543)
If Wake's shoulder is OK, and tfbg9 takes the evening off, you can expect a commanding performance in Game 4 and a win unless the offense falls completely asleep.


He'll suck, BTW, because he can't settle down well-enough in big spots ever since Aaron Boone sent his spinner of a knuckler into the seats 4 years ago. Just watch.

Sox figure to be up 2-1 in games by then anyhow, most likely.
   28. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:38 PM (#2574552)
But was the idea even brought up in the press conferences? It was talked about in game chatter and on FOX. Why didn't the writers bring the idea up? It is not an absurd idea.
   29. MattLee Posted: October 13, 2007 at 04:38 PM (#2574553)
Is Vegas stupid? They made the Red Sox FAVOURITES with Carmona on the mound?


why wouldnt the redsox be favorites? carmona sucked ass last year, no telling what he will be like against the sox line-up in the playoffs. dont base one year as a determination of how good a pitcher is, you need to look at the last three and last year carmona was inconsistent. youre gonna favor an inconsistent player because he had one solid year over a team who has killed every playoff game so far? no logic what-so-ever to pick carmona over the redsox.
   30. bibigon Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:03 PM (#2574562)
why wouldnt the redsox be favorites? carmona sucked ass last year, no telling what he will be like against the sox line-up in the playoffs. dont base one year as a determination of how good a pitcher is, you need to look at the last three and last year carmona was inconsistent. youre gonna favor an inconsistent player because he had one solid year over a team who has killed every playoff game so far? no logic what-so-ever to pick carmona over the redsox.


Carmona is pretty clearly not the same pitcher he was last year. To not give massive primacy to what he's done this season seems to be a mistake to me. Young players develop. Carmona has both the stuff, and the peripherals to be a very effective pitcher.

I'd still take the Sox, but that's not because of any doubts I have about Carmona's talent level. It's because I have some faith in Schilling, and a lot of faith in the Red Sox bats at Fenway.
   31. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:09 PM (#2574567)
BTW, is your handle a reference to a character in Bergman's Smiles of a Summer Night ?


His screen name is a variant of Charlemagne.
   32. Baldrick Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:09 PM (#2574568)
You'll know the gun is really juiced when Wakefield pitches and they've got him coming in at 63.
   33. Nick Warino Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:10 PM (#2574569)
It's only four games, but check out Manny Ortez's batting line this postseason:

.632/.816/1.263 (2.079 OPS).
   34. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:11 PM (#2574571)
70, actually.
   35. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:12 PM (#2574572)
His screen name is a variant of Charlemagne


The Swedish variant?
   36. Chip Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:16 PM (#2574575)
Since when is Wakefield's shoulder bothering him? I thought it was his back?
   37. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:19 PM (#2574578)


why wouldnt the redsox be favorites? carmona sucked ass last year, no telling what he will be like against the sox line-up in the playoffs. dont base one year as a determination of how good a pitcher is, you need to look at the last three and last year carmona was inconsistent. youre gonna favor an inconsistent player because he had one solid year over a team who has killed every playoff game so far? no logic what-so-ever to pick carmona over the redsox.


We can't just look at this year, so we should just look at the last four games?!?!?

How have the Red Sox done in the playoffs in the last three years, 2005, 2006, and 2007?
   38. MattLee Posted: October 13, 2007 at 05:58 PM (#2574599)

We can't just look at this year, so we should just look at the last four games?!?!?

How have the Red Sox done in the playoffs in the last three years, 2005, 2006, and 2007?


when has a team ever won or lost championships by how they performed the year before? if that were the case the sox wouldve lost to the yankees when the sox broke the curse nor would the marlins ever won it all. talent of the here and now win championships. but that said same cant be said for a player who had a bad year followed by a good year. ankiel was a great young pitcher then fell apart. carmona could be another ankiel, he's talented but he was never a huge talent. i mean he maxed out at 76 on baseball america's top 100. thats bottom 50 where inconsistence reins supreme and he was only on it one yr the whole time in the minors.
   39. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:21 PM (#2574612)
He'll suck, BTW, because he can't settle down well-enough in big spots ever since Aaron Boone sent his spinner of a knuckler into the seats 4 years ago.
I don't think I could possibly disagree more strongly with this.
YANKEES 12TH: WAKEFIELD REPLACED EMBREE (PITCHING); Clark struck
out; Cairo singled to left [Cairo to second (error by Ramirez)];
Jeter flied to right; Rodriguez flied to center; 0 R, 1 H, 1 E,
1 LOB. Yankees 4, Red Sox 4.
...
YANKEES 13TH: Sheffield struck out but advanced to first on a
passed ball; Matsui forced Sheffield (second to shortstop);
Williams flied to right; Varitek allowed a passed ball [Matsui
to second]; Posada was walked intentionally; Varitek allowed a
passed ball [Matsui to third, Posada to second]; Sierra struck
out; 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 2 LOB. Yankees 4, Red Sox 4.
...
YANKEES 14TH: Clark was called out on strikes; Cairo flied to
center; Jeter grounded out (shortstop to first); 0 R, 0 H, 0 E,
0 LOB. Yankees 4, Red Sox 4.
A more clutch performance you will be hard-pressed to find. The man was working on two days rest, don't forget. Wakefield was one of the true clutch heroes of 2004, and this disrespect will not stand.
   40. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:21 PM (#2574613)
The Swedish variant?


I'm pretty sure its derivation is Germanic, tfbg9.
   41. PJ Martinez Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:33 PM (#2574630)
"carmona could be another ankiel, he's talented but he was never a huge talent"

Um, are you aware at all of what happened to Rick Ankiel? A less predictive comp would be hard to find.
   42. walt williams bobblehead Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:35 PM (#2574632)
Maybe those bugs were carrying Steve Blass disease,
   43. Darren Posted: October 13, 2007 at 06:55 PM (#2574640)
A more clutch performance you will be hard-pressed to find. The man was working on two days rest, don't forget. Wakefield was one of the true clutch heroes of 2004, and this disrespect will not stand.


Testify, brother!
   44. Bad Fish Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:16 PM (#2574652)
When Wake has the flutter working he is near unhittable, and makes batters look plain stupid to boot. He pitched pretty darned well for four or five starts after he was on the disabled list this summer. I think he has a high probabiltiy of tossing a gem.
   45. MattLee Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:32 PM (#2574666)
Um, are you aware at all of what happened to Rick Ankiel? A less predictive comp would be hard to find.


carmona is good but he is hardly better than some of the people he out preformed. he is not a top talent where you can just hand the ball and its an automatic Win.

anyways, back to the carmona statement that the sox shouldnt be favorite cause of carmona. lets see here this year schilling's post season era is lower than carmona's, schilling has more post season experience total than carmona and schilling has been more consistant in his long career in big games than carmona. the only way you could say carmona should be favored is if you based everything on 1 yr because all others say schilling should be favorite in this match-up.

add in the redsox potent line-up and their closer who can be lights out. while indians rely on who to close it out? borowski who's era in the regular season i believe was about 5.00?

so even if carmona out dueled schilling chances are it will end up a battle of the bullpens and prolly closer vs closer. redsox advantage in the end if closers involved. look at the whole picture
   46. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:36 PM (#2574667)
These two guys are one of the greatest love/hate relationships in my life. As a Blue Jays fan I wish they would just [insert unspeakable, cruel, mean-spirited, abhorrent, vile fate here], but as a baseball fan I just can't get enough of watching these two.

I tend to be happiest watching Red Sox games that don't involve Toronto so I can sit back and enjoy watching these guys mash.

An addendum: I've also loved watching Mike Lowell's resurgence; came back from cancer, part of that fun-to-watch 2003 Marlins team, was viewed as an albatross contract by the Fish and was 'forced' to go to the Red Sox if Boston wanted Beckett and responded by hitting the crap out of the ball since (although his .355/.396/.657 career line against Toronto sure makes it hard some days).

That's why I like the playoffs this year. I can just kick back and enjoy the fireworks.

I had that kinda dynamic with Pedro too. Just too much fun to watch to actively hate the guy and he earned a lot of love when pitching with Les Expos. When he was with the BoSox I wanted the Jays to win 1-0 in 10 innings (on an unearned run) with Martinez throwing a no-hitter. The Jays would score in the tenth on a passed ball strike three with one out and the batter reaches, followed by a steal of second, advancing to third on a fielder's choice and scoring an an error by the shortstop with the ball hitting the heel of his glove and dribbling into left field.

His line?

IP  H  R ER BB  K 
9.2 0  1  0  0 18 


Heh.

Best Regards

John
   47. rr Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:40 PM (#2574670)
Shouldn't it be "Danny Ortez?"
   48. bibigon Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:50 PM (#2574672)
anyways, back to the carmona statement that the sox shouldnt be favorite cause of carmona. lets see here this year schilling's post season era is lower than carmona's, schilling has more post season experience total than carmona and schilling has been more consistant in his long career in big games than carmona. the only way you could say carmona should be favored is if you based everything on 1 yr because all others say schilling should be favorite in this match-up.


Just to be clear - are you asserting that the Red Sox have a pitching advantage in this game - not just an overall advantage?
   49. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:54 PM (#2574673)
I don't think I could possibly disagree more strongly with this.


MCoA, that 13th inning, in my view, was a total nail-biting miraculous gift from God. It was pretty shakey, and he struck a guy out on a 3-2 pitch to get out of it. But we'll say it was a spot where he didn't absolutely crumble under the pressure, sure.

But you cherry picked one of the few big spots where he came thru after the Aaron Boone HR. 8.59, 12.27, 6.75...those are the man's postseason ERA's after the HR. And he's like 1-10 with a 9.00 ERA vs the MFY's since '04. And he absolutely stunk to high heaven in the biggest start of his life, Game 1 2004 WS. He pissed his pants. Bellhorn bailed us out.

Picking two innings that things worked out OK in does not negate my larger claim that Wake is usually unreliable as all hell in big spots since 2003. There's a pattern.

And a real man would have simply broken down Apt. 707's door last night, and retrieved those tickets, Kojak-style. Hang you head, hang your head.
   50. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 13, 2007 at 07:58 PM (#2574674)
MCoA, that 13th inning, in my view, was a total nail-biting miraculous gift from God. It was pretty shakey, and he struck a guy out on a 3-2 pitch to get out of it. But we'll say it was a spot where he didn't absolutely crumble under the pressure, sure.
You simply cannot define clutch as preventing runs and getting wins, and then diminish the clutchitude of three shutout innings and a win in the most nail-bitingest game in recent Red Sox history.

EDIT: let's take those ERAs.

8.59: He came in during a blowout in which the Yankee bats were insane, and saved the bullpen, but allowed 5 runs in the process. He then threw three of the hugest shutout innings in Red Sox history, which you continue to indefensibly diminish.

12.27: He sucked in that WS start, no question.

6.75: In the other two starts in that series, Matt Clement imploded and David Wells allowed 5 runs in 6.2 IP. 4 R in 5.1 IP was not good, but I didn't see an unclutch performance, just a not-very-good one against a juggernaut.

Wakefield has had all of two postseason starts since the 2003 ALCS. One was very bad, one was pretty bad. He also has a meaningless outing where he saved the bullpen, and a relief appearance of historic heroicism. Your citation of bulk numbers as if there's some huge sample of struggles is simply an incorrect insinuation.
   51. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:00 PM (#2574675)
And I will add, as I usually do, that Wake is a fine man, an admirable human being. I just think he suffers from akin to Patrick-Ewing-4th-quarter-foul-shotitus.

And I hope he proves me wrong and dazzles the Indians on Teusday night, and breakes the spell.
   52. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:04 PM (#2574678)
You simply cannot define clutch as preventing runs and getting wins, and then diminish the clutchitude of three shutout innings and a win in the most nail-bitingest game in recent Red Sox history.


I gave you the 2004 Game 4 ALCS innings as a feather in Wake's cap. I never said he always fails in big spots, I said he usually does nowadays. You cannot dismiss the mutiple black eyes, but I'm convinced you'll try.

The man has a 6.12 postseason ERA. That sucks.
   53. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:08 PM (#2574682)
mutiple black eyes
two! two!

One bad start in 2004, one not good start in 2005.
   54. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:10 PM (#2574684)
And, what, 15 crappy starts against the Yankees?
   55. Darren Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:12 PM (#2574686)
But we'll say it was a spot where he didn't absolutely crumble under the pressure, sure.


vs.

I gave you the 2004 Game 4 ALCS innings as a feather in Wake's cap.


Those are pretty different assessments of his performance. The former is ridiculously underselling his performance, and the latter is closer to fair.
   56. tfbg9 Posted: October 13, 2007 at 08:16 PM (#2574687)
Nitpicking. I'm giving it to him all the same. Hey, I like Wake, I just think its in his head these days.

A 6.12 ERA is bad. 12-17 (we'll count the playoffs) vs the MFY's is bad. Nitpick that, smart guy.
   57. karlmagnus Posted: October 14, 2007 at 02:01 AM (#2575098)
In case you hadn't noticed, tfbg9, we're not playing the Yankees.

karlmagnus is the German varioant of Charlemagne. Charlemagne was a consulting company I founded in '88 which survived but did not prosper. Karlmagnus became my aol screenname when I went on the net in '95, because they had a limit of 10 letters.

All my screen names are karlmagnus, all my passwords are various cats. Keep life simple, I say.
   58. Answer Guy Posted: October 14, 2007 at 05:49 AM (#2575928)
This just in: the back of our bullpen is pretty bad.
   59. Xander Posted: October 14, 2007 at 05:53 AM (#2575935)
This just in: what's the point of limiting Papelbon to 58 innings in the regular season if he can't throw 3 innings in a tie game in the ALCS? At least let him pitch that third inning until someone hits a HR or a runner gets to 2nd. Gagne is a death knell.
   60. MattLee Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:04 AM (#2575945)
Just to be clear - are you asserting that the Red Sox have a pitching advantage in this game - not just an overall advantage?


i was stating that there was no reason the sox shouldnt of been favored just cause of carmona and although the sox lost, it did go to the pen like i predicted. that just shows you that carmona is not a reason the sox shouldnt of been favored
   61. Xander Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:12 AM (#2575952)
Does a dollar go to breast cancer research for every post you write in pink or something?
   62. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:15 AM (#2575957)
I thought papplebon had more in him for sure. Considering we have an off day as well. Hafner had a hit off him that was becasue of the shift, other wise he looked fine.

I could second guess this game all night...
   63. Dan Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:26 AM (#2575977)
I could second guess the game all night, but I'd rather pretend it never happened.
   64. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:33 AM (#2575985)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but let's rewind to top 12, Game Five of the 2004 ALCS. I distinctly remember A-Rod's "fly out" being a rocket off the bat that hung up for Damon near the track... ####. Esteban was nails in extra innings, Ortiz muscled a great pitch... I'll get over that game someday. 2 Run lead Gordon... TWO RUN LEAD! Do your job Flash! You did it all year! Man.

Anyway, I basically dropped in here to defend Tim Wakefield's “guts”, as it were. Just look at his starts in the 2003 ALCS and 1992 NLCS. Sure, he has failed. But I doubt it’s because he gets nervous or anything. How would we know, anyway?
   65. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 14, 2007 at 06:34 AM (#2575986)
mutiple black eyes

Poor Mrs. Lugo.
   66. tfbg9 Posted: October 14, 2007 at 07:10 AM (#2575994)
TWO RUN LEAD! Do your job Flash! You did it all year! Man.


Maybe he was hurt? Maybe that's why he was heaving in the bullpen before he went in?
   67. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 14, 2007 at 07:16 AM (#2575995)
Plus Gagne held them scoreless too!

Damn - wrong game!
   68. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 14, 2007 at 07:19 AM (#2575996)
The backend of Boston's bullpen could really use a couple of workhorses right now.

Because we could use the workhorses to trample Gagne to death.
   69. bibigon Posted: October 14, 2007 at 07:25 AM (#2575998)
If they drop Monday's game now, I go with Beckett in game 4.
   70. karlmagnus Posted: October 14, 2007 at 07:22 PM (#2576344)
Going with Beckett in Game 4 is asking for Gagne in the 9th inning of that game, after Beckett has tired early. After Schilling's failure, we need length out of starters; we won't get it out of Dice-K, but we are very likely to get it out of Wake. Win or lose, that would set it up for a rested bullpen and an ace Beckett in Game 5. If Beckett wins that, we're back in Fenway even if Games 3 and 4 are disasters.
   71. Darren Posted: October 14, 2007 at 11:15 PM (#2576454)
Beckett's started on 3 days rest once in the regular season and he went 7 IP, 1 ER. He also had that CG SHO in the postseason. And I don't think we really need to put length at a premium. We have a lot of good relievers and a lot of rest days.

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