Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Sox Therapy > Discussion
Sox Therapy
— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: October 04, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2559143)
I think the offense was put to sleep by several off the plate calls. But, Lackey did pitch better after the 2 HRs. And Earvin Santana had great stuff tonight, too. It seems like the Sox did what they could with what they were given. Can't ask for more than that.
Also, the D seemed good, and everybody was evidently in the game the whole time.

And I love Ellsbury's play in LF.
   2. Nasty Nate Posted: October 04, 2007 at 02:52 AM (#2559148)
was in the bleachers. awesome.

In the 6th, i was wondering if Beckett would strike out the side on 9 pitches. he K'd the first two on 6 pitches, and got figgins down 0-1 before the flyout.

freakin fast game.
   3. Mister High Standards Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:07 AM (#2559192)
Beckett was a stud. That is all.
   4. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:09 AM (#2559199)
Yeah, how 'bout the Chief eh? Great job.


Anyone else notice how bad the TBS announcers were though? Several mistakes/mixups/interruptions. Some were the call of a double play ball with 2 outs, and the lead-in back to the studio with Cal/Hurt before the inning was over. He had to cover his tracks a lot. Still beats Joe Morgan.
   5. chris p Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:09 AM (#2559200)
not bad.
   6. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:11 AM (#2559203)
That was rather dominant. . .

Beckett's going to become one of these post-season media darlings, I guess. Though I speak from the "side" of the Red Sox, I must opine that starting Lackey in Fenway was a poor decision for Scioscia. He's been terrible in Fenway, and getting one good start out of him is better than two bad starts, especially when they have two other good starters to pitch 1-2 and 4-5. I know the media would have roasted him, but not if they won; a fifties-through-eighties manager would likely have done this differently.
   7. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:11 AM (#2559204)
Not much to add when your starter goes CG shutout. The best part was that it wasn't even stressful to watch. And yes, Fox sports in Sydney carried the TBS feed so it was live.
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:12 AM (#2559206)
Ortiz' first 20 postseason games: 1 homerun
Ortiz' last 19 postseason games: 8 homeruns
   9. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:13 AM (#2559217)
Beckett's going to become one of these post-season media darlings, I guess.

And not for the first time.
   10. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:14 AM (#2559221)
Ted Robinson isn't all that good, but he's far from the most annoying guy out there. Steve Stone is usually good. I only heard the television audio for about three innings, though; while I was listening, Robinson made a lot of fairly stupid comments about productive outs and such, which Stone went along with.

The visual aspect and the atmosphere of these TBS is so much better than FOX that it almost brings a tear to my eye--I could forget myself and think I was watching a game back in the late eighties. It's going to really suck to go back to FOX now. . .
   11. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:15 AM (#2559225)
I know, Crispix. Two post-seasons is enough to build a legend.
   12. Xander Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:17 AM (#2559230)
I thought Steve Stone was fantastic, per usual, tonight.
   13. chris p Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:18 AM (#2559231)
The visual aspect and the atmosphere of these TBS is so much better than FOX that it almost brings a tear to my eye--I could forget myself and think I was watching a game back in the late eighties. It's going to really suck to go back to FOX now. . .

it's true.
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:19 AM (#2559235)
What broadcast do people get if they are watching the postseason on the mlb.com website?
   15. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:23 AM (#2559241)
Steve Stone actually did do a good job. I think he went along with a few bad comments because the circumstances and timing weren't right to discuss them, or he just didn't care enough.

And anyone else think that Frank Thomas was going to eat Cal Ripken? I was pretty surprised to see him in the studio.

And what's the story on Orsillo doing games for TBS? He did the tiebreaker. Is he covering the NL?
   16. Xander Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:25 AM (#2559243)
And anyone else think that Frank Thomas was going to eat Cal Ripken? I was pretty surprised to see him in the studio.
He looks like he's confessing something shameful because he's perpetually looking down at his notes sheet.

And what's the story on Orsillo doing games for TBS? He did the tiebreaker. Is he covering the NL?
Yea, he's doing the NL.
   17. Joel W Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:28 AM (#2559249)
I have to say, after the second inning, it just seemed like Beckett was on, and he should be a media darling if he keeps stuff like that up. 8Ks, no walks, and just efficient. I have no idea how juiced the gun was, but he was dealing. There was no angst in that game.
   18. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2559254)
The typical radar gun for NESN broadcasts never seems to be quite right. According to tonight's gun he was hitting 98. Apparently, according to Dr. Ripken Jr., he was throwing his sinker 97 too! Hmm...
   19. Xander Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:35 AM (#2559268)
The gun was fairly accurate. His readings, and the TBS readings in general, have been pretty much dead on with MLB Gameday. He's just got a 1 in a million arm.
   20. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:41 AM (#2559293)
Beckett has gone from "whining blister guy" to "playoff hero" to "LOL the Red Sox wasted prospects on another big-money bust" to now "playoff hero" again.
   21. AROM Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:41 AM (#2559294)
Lackey was throwing 93 and Santana 96 - seems like a normal gun to me. Santana toyed with the Red Sox hitters like Beckett did to the Angels. When I see him blow people away like that I can't understand how he struggled so much this year. At least he's not useless. If he can't show improvement in the rotation next year he's got a future as a dominant reliever.
   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:44 AM (#2559300)
What's the deal with Santana's home-road splits? Like, they're literally the most pronounced in baseball history.
   23. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:52 AM (#2559318)
Yeah, I think Beckett was just dealing. I've never felt less stress watching a postseason game. No one was gonna hit Beckett tonight.

...

"Chief"? Really? Come on.
   24. Nick Warino Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:54 AM (#2559323)
Beckett has very good command in general and today it was outstanding. How many batters started 1-0? 2 in the 1st, 2 in the 2nd, and 1 in the 9th. That's it. That's 5 out of 31 (16%). Only Izturis to lead of the 2nd had a 2-0 count (3%). More than that, he was throwing it almost exactly where he wanted to. Varitek's glove barely moved. I think this was the best pitched game of the season for the Red Sox, even better than Buchholz's.
   25. Nick Warino Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:56 AM (#2559329)
What's funny is that I was (irrationally) nervous after two batters when Beckett was throwing all fastballs, and he had already given up a hit and Cabrera turned around on an inside fastball.
   26. Nick Warino Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:06 AM (#2559363)
From ESPN:

Most career postseason shutouts (career postseason starts):
1. Christy Mathewson, 4 (11)
2. Josh Beckett, 3 (6)
3. Whitey Ford, 3 (22)
4. Modecai Brown 3 (7)
   27. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2559368)
Speaking of TBS, I really like the scorebook format summary when the hitters come up. I could even tolerate Fox adding cheesy animations and pointless sound effects to get that on my screen for the rest of the playoffs.
   28. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2559390)
Most career postseason shutouts (career postseason starts):
1. Christy Mathewson, 4 (11)
2. Josh Beckett, 3 (6)
3. Whitey Ford, 3 (22)
4. Modecai Brown 3 (7)


Meanwhile, regular-season shutouts (career regular-season starts):
Christy Mathewson, 79 (551)
Josh Beckett, 2 (166)
Whitey Ford, 45 (438)
Mordecair Brown, 55 (332)
   29. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:16 AM (#2559400)
Going completely offtrack - this mini-exhibition at Cabot Library at Harvard ends on Thursday. It's pretty neat - sort of a history of statistical analysis in baseball. Essays about Earl Weaver, Bill James, BABIP, copies of "The Book", the Fielding Bible, even screenshots of The Hardball Times, USS Mariner, and The Book blog, among others. Baseball Think Factory is mentioned. I just noticed it a couple hours ago.

I think you might need a Harvard ID to get in, but I'm not sure. You might want to call.

I can't believe I missed the game. Crap.
   30. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:46 AM (#2559468)
I've been there without a Harvard ID, but that was several years ago.
   31. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 04, 2007 at 04:47 AM (#2559470)
By the way, while we're celebrating stuff, I passed my preliminary exam! Hooray for me.
   32. Dan Posted: October 04, 2007 at 05:22 AM (#2559489)
Though I speak from the "side" of the Red Sox, I must opine that starting Lackey in Fenway was a poor decision for Scioscia. He's been terrible in Fenway, and getting one good start out of him is better than two bad starts, especially when they have two other good starters to pitch 1-2 and 4-5. I know the media would have roasted him, but not if they won; a fifties-through-eighties manager would likely have done this differently.


I agree with this 100%. I think Scioscia would have been far better server to start Lackey in game 3 at home. But instead he gets to start at Fenway where he's always sucked, and gets to oppose the one pitcher who was likely to shut down the Angels.
   33. Answer Guy Posted: October 04, 2007 at 06:17 AM (#2559502)
I think Scioscia would have been far better server to start Lackey in game 3 at home. But instead he gets to start at Fenway where he's always sucked, and gets to oppose the one pitcher who was likely to shut down the Angels.


But this way Lackey can also start Game 4, assuming there is a Game 4, at home. If you held him until Game 3 then he'd be limited to one start, and he's your best starter, or at the absolute worst your #2 behind Escobar. I'd rather take my chances starting Lackey twice than Weaver. Hindsight is of course 20/20.
   34. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 04, 2007 at 07:21 AM (#2559522)
I agree with this 100%. I think Scioscia would have been far better server to start Lackey in game 3 at home.
It's not the ballpark, it's the team. Lackey's had just two decent starts against the Red Sox in five years. They've pounded him in Boston, pounded in Anaheim, and if they had a chance, they'd pound him at any neutral site on the planet. That he's also the Angels' best starter just makes this match-up extra-horrible for the Angels.

Nothing happened today that wasn't totally expected: Beckett was great, Lackey got hit, Sox win. Now, the question is which Dice-K shows up for Game 2?
   35. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 04, 2007 at 07:23 AM (#2559523)
And yes, Fox sports in Sydney carried the TBS feed so it was live.


We'll be getting the playoffs live all year which is great. Even Fox Sports News are showing the highlights of the games, which is great.

EDIT - For some reason I felt confident all night and never stressed once (except when Manny and Youks got called out on bad strike 3 calls). Ortiz looked great at the plate and set his HR up with a great at bat in the first when he took a fair few pitches after falling behind 0-2.

Let's hope we keep it going on Friday...
   36. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 04, 2007 at 07:36 AM (#2559528)
Speaking of TBS, did we mention that they missed a ####### out at one point?
   37. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 04, 2007 at 07:46 AM (#2559533)
All the stuff about it being a bad idea to start Lackey in Fenway just strikes me as so much magical thinking. He's your best pitcher. You start him as often as you can. There's no particular reason that he would have a harder time in Fenway anymore than anybody else would pitching in such a bandbox.

As far as the Red Sox giving him fits, there may be a small amount of validity to that idea, but nobody has made the argument here in any kind of convincing fashion. The Red Sox give a lot of people fits. He dominated a similar lineup in a similarly hostile environment in New York in July, and had a short but not particularly disastrous start in Fenway in April.

I cannot fathom why you do not start your best pitcher in the first game, if he's rested and as good as Lackey is. I suppose you could be on the take, or have had a recent blow to the head, but beyond that, I fail to see a compelling reason.
   38. villageidiom Posted: October 04, 2007 at 11:36 AM (#2559555)
He was pitching well and taking him out would risk finding someone who wasn’t pitching well.

FWIW, Gagne was warming in the bottom of the eighth. Lots of murmuring in the bleachers ensued until the inning ended, the bullpen door opened up, and out came... that fat cop. Alone.

And Beckett sprinted out of the dugout like he couldn't wait to face the Angels' hitters. (Or maybe he, too, knew who had been warming up.)

Not saying I don't trust Gagne with a 4-run lead. It was just a fun moment, in an evening of fun moments.

One question for Angels fans - what was with the pinch-hitting? Aybar (.279 OBP) for Napoli (.351 OBP), Morales (.333 OBP) for Willits (.391 OBP)... What am I missing?
   39. Josh Posted: October 04, 2007 at 11:51 AM (#2559564)
FWIW, Gagne was warming in the bottom of the eighth. Lots of murmuring in the bleachers ensued until the inning ended, the bullpen door opened up, and out came... that fat cop. Alone.
Right. That was the scariest moment of the game.

And Pap was warmed up after the 7th, and warming in the 9th in case. Becket was out there, but on a short leash.
   40. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 04, 2007 at 12:09 PM (#2559568)
Morales has a lot of pop, and Napoli just came off an injury.
   41. PJ Martinez Posted: October 04, 2007 at 12:23 PM (#2559572)
Josh Beckett, after the game: "they got a lot of guys who foul a lot of pitches off. And I just didn't want to get wrapped up in trying to strike out a lot of guys, because those are the at-bats that will end up killing your pitch count and you're out after 5 1/3 because you've got 120 pitches."

Pitch to contact Beckett >> pitch to contact Schilling. Though I hope Schilling rises up in an effort to hold on to his "best playoff pitcher alive" crown. (Not sure he even wears that crown, but he's at least in the running.)
   42. villageidiom Posted: October 04, 2007 at 12:41 PM (#2559579)
Morales has a lot of pop

That I know. But he's more likely to make an out, and he was up with 2 outs. If there were 0 out I'd understand sacrificing frequency (get on base less often) for severity (lots of bases, if he gets on), because the inning isn't over if he fails. With 2 out it's a strategy to get 3 out.

and Napoli just came off an injury.

OK, that I can understand. But at the time he was looking to give a break to the 133 OPS+ guy coming back from an injury, they had the following OPS+ to choose from on his bench: 96, 76, 69, 68, 54. They chose 54. Giving Napoli a break is one thing; giving Beckett a break is another.
   43. villageidiom Posted: October 04, 2007 at 12:42 PM (#2559580)
And Pap was warmed up after the 7th, and warming in the 9th in case. Becket was out there, but on a short leash.

They had Okajima warming after the 7th, too. Shaking off cobwebs?
   44. PJ Martinez Posted: October 04, 2007 at 12:44 PM (#2559581)
According to "gammoseditor" on SoSH, here are Beckett's career postseason numbers (I haven't checked the math):

INN: 51.67
ER: 10
K: 55
BB: 12
H: 25
ERA: 1.74
K/9: 9.58
K/BB: 4.58

Also, out of 108 pitches last night, 83 strikes.

More numbers, from Tom Verducci: "how many times in those 124 postseason shutouts that the pitcher allowed no walks and no extra-base hits while striking out as many as eight batters"?

1. Josh Beckett, Boston, 4-0, Game 1, ALDS over Los Angeles.

(A weird set of conditions, I know. Still speaks to how dominant he was, though. How many strikeouts did Don Larsen have?)

Edit: Larsen had 7 Ks. And if you eliminate that "8 Ks" condition from Verducci's question, you get this list:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/9GDC

courtesy of "mabrowndog" from SoSH
   45. Toby Posted: October 04, 2007 at 01:42 PM (#2559621)
Apart from the obvious highlights, the hidden highlight of the game for me was when Manny alertly scooted to second on the wild pitch. Just a good, solid, alert play by someone often criticized for not being alert.
   46. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 04, 2007 at 01:54 PM (#2559637)
While Beckett may have not been trying to strike everybody out, he still did a great job there. While it also obviously helps a lot that Beckett had his stuff last night, he also approached the hitters quite well - he made the Angels pay pretty much every time they tried to aggressively go after him, which was quite a lot.
   47. Dan Szymborski Posted: October 04, 2007 at 02:02 PM (#2559649)
I've been impressed by Ripken. Obviously, he's not very experienced with dealing with the cameras in this matter, but he was focused, on-point, and generally used his experiences as a player to bring a perspective to the events he analyzed, rather than just pointless "when I played" anecdotes and statistical analysis that isn't part of his background.

Unfortunately, Ripken also remained his usual soft-spoken, mild-mannered self, which while I fresh change of pace for me from most sports talking heads, probably limits his employment opportunities in a Sportscenter/Now world. I'd like to see him do something with the Orioles, but the Orioles aren't interested in any TV/radio broadcasters that aren't shameless shills.

TBS seriously has to do some work with some of their chosen camera angles. While there weren't the onslaught of beeps and whooshes like you get from Fox, there were quite a few times they really picked shitty angles for plays. The infield hit to Stephen Drew stands out - nobody was telling us what was happening during the play, nobody was showing us what happened during the play, so you just sat there watching Drew skip around, hoping they might mention what was going on elsewhere sometime after the play.
   48. The Essex Snead Posted: October 04, 2007 at 02:16 PM (#2559667)
The infield hit to Stephen Drew stands out - nobody was telling us what was happening during the play, nobody was showing us what happened during the play, so you just sat there watching Drew skip around, hoping they might mention what was going on elsewhere sometime after the play.


Expecting Dick Stockton to tell you anything of import (especially involving something you're not seeing on screen) is like expecting water to not be wet. Ron Darling is doing God's work during this series.

That said, I was happy to find out that Julio Jorge was still in the league - I wondered what happened to that guy...
   49. Miko Supports Shane's Spam Habit Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:04 PM (#2559747)
Edit: Larsen had 7 Ks. And if you eliminate that "8 Ks" condition from Verducci's question, you get this list:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/9GDC

courtesy of "mabrowndog" from SoSH


Wow, Bob Forsch!
   50. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:07 PM (#2559748)
Speaking of TBS, did we mention that they missed a ####### out at one point?


I sure noticed that. Might be partly blamed on the HP ump not waiting long enough before giving the TV "all-clear" for resuming the ballgame?
   51. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:10 PM (#2559754)
This is worth a look:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1035965
   52. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:11 PM (#2559755)
My reaction: How the HELL could MLB be stupid enough to put Tim Tschida on a Red Sox playoff umpiring crew? I'm surprised he wasn't assassinated.
   53. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:11 PM (#2559757)
Might be partly blamed on the HP ump not waiting long enough before giving the TV "all-clear" for resuming the ballgame?


I've always wondered - is the HP ump in communication with the TV people? Do they have like a little watch to time how long a team can get out into the field and warm up? How does that work?
   54. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:12 PM (#2559758)
Oh, and may I add the Cappy called a very nice game. Got 'em to have to cheat on the fastball, and mixed in just enough curves. Nice.
   55. plim Posted: October 04, 2007 at 03:30 PM (#2559782)
all i have to say is wow...

i wish that herald pitch-by-pitch article broke down his 4 seamer from his 2 seamer to see if dr. cal was right about a 95 mph 2-seamer. that just seems way too fast.

some interesting thoughts about the tbs broadcast (more like production notes nagging):
- they really need to work on their timing. up until about the 5th inning, they could never start an inning on time, including the infamous missed out as pointed out by biff, 36.

- they really need to reposition their sideline/dugout cams. there were *way* too many closeups of the pitcher or corner infielder that got completely blocked by the basecoach.

- they really need to put zoom limiters on their cameras...way too quick of a zoom on certain occasions.

but all in all, i do agree that the tbs broadcast is more baseball-friendly than fox.

and why couldn't the sox get sean mcdonnough? that would've been a throwback for me!

it's kinda weird seeing ernie johnson doing baseball =P

and frank thomas...he can hit, but he can't talk =( cal's not that bad though.
   56. Dan Posted: October 04, 2007 at 05:37 PM (#2559960)
No, Beckett has definitely thrown some 2-seamers of the "Maddux backdoor" type at 95-96 MPH this year when he's had his good stuff. Which he obviously did last night.
   57. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2007 at 06:08 PM (#2559994)
95-96 mph two seamers? Just unreal.
   58. Dan Posted: October 04, 2007 at 06:17 PM (#2560003)
Yeah, he threw one of that type to Willits to strike him out in the 8th, I think it was, last night. And I can recall him punching out a few people earlier in the year on the same pitch.
   59. James Darnell's #1 Fan Posted: October 04, 2007 at 06:32 PM (#2560034)
Kinda reminds me of Zumaya, seen him do that more than a couple of times.

Of course, when your 4 seam fastball hits 100 mph regularly, a 95 mph 2-seamer isn't that far fetched.
   60. Dave Cyprian Posted: October 04, 2007 at 07:05 PM (#2560065)
I was surprised by the two seamer as well. I had no idea that he could throw it that hard. But when Cal described the pitch, they showed a replay of him striking out an Angel and the ball clearly did have 2 seamer side-over-side action. And every fastball he threw was at least 94+ ... I really do think some of those two-seamers came in at 97. Holy momma.
   61. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2007 at 08:29 PM (#2560217)
Unless the gun was really "hot", but the earlier comparisons in this thread seem to suggest otherwise.
   62. Mike Webber Posted: October 04, 2007 at 09:48 PM (#2560388)
The guys on KC radio just panned Orsillo and Joe Simpson after the 163rd game.

I think Orsillo is good as a straight-man in a comedy team type setting, but with Simpson being a blank personality wise the team is just tooo bland.
   63. Joel W Posted: October 05, 2007 at 06:32 PM (#2561840)
Can somebody explain to me how the BPro odds had the angels winning this series 53% of the time coming in? Do they adjust that much for top line starting? And even so, it would seem to be too much. FWIW, the Sox are now at 63% according to Prospectus.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Don Malcolm
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.6477 seconds
41 querie(s) executed