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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

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   1. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:34 AM (#2563838)
What a tense game it was, for me at least. But #######, Manny crushed that ball. I don't even know what else to say. Well, other than the fact that Dan Iassogna did his best to give this game to the Angels with his huge strike zone for Escobar and ever-shrinking zone for Daisuke. But it was good to see Manny make the Halos pay for walking Ortiz to get to him, and in dramatic fashion.
   2. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:39 AM (#2563842)
Dan,

Maybe my attempts to not get too emotionally involved were working too well, but I didn't see Iassogna as being biased--just lousy and inconsistent, as the umps have usually been this year. Game 1 was far more unevenly officiated.
   3. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:40 AM (#2563843)
Also, did you see Julio Lugo with his arms out like an airplane as he rounded third and scored?
   4. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:40 AM (#2563844)
What the hell? Going through Sox Chatter for the game, you'd have thought Iassogna had an Angel jersey on. There were some terrible calls for both sides (the obvious fan interference non-call, Papplebon's 3-1 to OC), so Sox fans should suck it up.

At this point, the series is over, and I'm disgusted enough that I'd like to see either Manny and Papi (or both!) get drilled in Game 3. Bitter? A dickish impulse? Yes, but I'm just trying to fit in.
   5. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:43 AM (#2563846)
the obvious fan interference non-call

The fan didn't reach into the stadium, the ball was in the stands.
   6. Miko Supports Shane's Spam Habit Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:44 AM (#2563848)
the obvious fan interference non-call

What? A fan isn't allowed to catch the ball when it's in the stands?
   7. GIANTlhbASS Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:45 AM (#2563849)
Fan interference? That ball was in the stands.

Rule 3.16:

"If spectator interference clearly prevents a fielder from catching a fly ball, the umpire shall declare the batter out. No interference shall be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. However, should a spectator reach out on the playing field side and plainly prevent the fielder from catching the ball, then the batsman should be called out."
   8. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:46 AM (#2563850)
Human,

Are you talking about the pop-up by Manny that the fan took away from Mathis? It was absolutely the right call, as the ball was in the stands. That fan won't be buying any drinks (or horror novels) for a long time.

On another note, how much of dumbwad is Coco for failing to retag 2nd? And how lousy was Lugo until the 9th?
   9. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:46 AM (#2563851)
Escobar was consistently getting the call his his high outside fastball that Matsuzaka wasn't getting called a strike all damned night. After Matsuzaka left the game, the calls went about evenly (as awful) between both sides.
   10. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:47 AM (#2563852)
That fan won't be buying any drinks for a long time.

Well, he's 17, so it should be at least 4 years.
   11. GIANTlhbASS Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:50 AM (#2563854)
how much of dumbwad is Coco for failing to retag 2nd?


That would've been inexcusable in Little League. Speaking of little league, I have to check this, but the Sox must have the smallest/lightest 2B-SS-CF in the game today.
   12. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:50 AM (#2563855)
I forgot that people under 21 don't drink. :)
   13. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:51 AM (#2563856)
I don't use the term hero lightly, but that kid is the greatest hero in American history.
   14. Gonfalon B. Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:52 AM (#2563857)
Nice little bloop by Manny. Has there ever been a player who helped his team as much, for so long, amid such persistent chatter about the imaginary need to be rid of him?
   15. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:54 AM (#2563858)

On another note, how much of dumbwad is Coco for failing to retag 2nd? And how lousy was Lugo until the 9th?


I wanted to use the N word. By the N word I mean "Coco you NotJacoby"

I forgot that people under 21 don't drink. :)

If he went to Canada...
   16. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:54 AM (#2563859)
...and now the ball has landed.

Did anyone else catch the guy in the bright blue windbreaker behind home plate making a mad dash for the exits as soon Manny made contact? He knew it was a HR before anyone else did, but he didn't even have a second to sit there and savour the moment.
   17. Xander Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:55 AM (#2563860)
He's also an owner's son, apparently.

TBS had a huge night tonight; two great games between 4 very star-studded, recognizable teams. I wouldn't be surprised if they average a 7 or an 8 over the 9 hour block the games consumed. That would be impressive for a cable station.

Onto the game, Matsuzaka didn't look very good to me. Steve Stone described him well when he called him a "power nibbler." I don't know if he doesn't trust his stuff or what, but he needs to put these guys away when he gets up 0-2 and 1-2.

Iassogna was terrible, but not noticeably in one direction. He was just brutally inconsistent and seemed to be backlogged in makeup calls.
   18. Xander Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:56 AM (#2563861)
Did anyone else catch the guy in the bright blue windbreaker behind home plate making a mad dash for the exits as soon Manny made contact? He knew it was a HR before anyone else did, but he didn't even have a second to sit there and savour the moment.
Wasn't that Drinkwater?
   19. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:56 AM (#2563863)
Nice little bloop by Manny. Has there ever been a player who helped his team as much, for so long, amid such persistent chatter about the imaginary need to be rid of him?


Manny's been a major driving force behind the plans to get rid of him. Now ARod, there's the guy you're trying to think of.
   20. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:00 AM (#2563866)
Wasn't that Drinkwater?

I don't know who that is.
I ended up only catching the last couple of innings, so I might have missed out on the announcers telling us who that was.

Can someone get me up to speed?
   21. Artie Ziff Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:01 AM (#2563869)
The ball did not seem to cross a fence, railing, or rope. Do temporary photographers' boxes count as a stand? Either way, it had no outcome.
   22. Xander Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:04 AM (#2563870)
   23. Mattbert Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:04 AM (#2563872)
I think that ball Manny hit must've landed out on the tarmac at Logan someplace. F**king hell, that thing was absolutely destroyed. My baby daughter was so excited she unloaded a new career high crap into her diaper.
   24. Shock Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:05 AM (#2563875)
My baby daughter was so excited she unloaded a new career high crap into her diaper.

Glad I'm not the only one.
   25. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:06 AM (#2563877)
I ended up only catching the last couple of innings, so I might have missed out on the announcers telling us who that was.


Don't count on the announcers--they couldn't recognize Stephen King after he was on screen twice for about a 1/2 hour each time. I generally have liked the TBS broadcast except:

1) Their guns are juiced. Everyone throws 98 all night.

2) The flames graphic on the gun reading gets old very, very, quickly.

3) The announcers aren't very knowledgeable.

4) Missing game action is bad.
   26. Xander Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:10 AM (#2563878)
1. The guns probably aren't really juiced. They're right in line with the readings from Enhanced Gameday.

2. Steve Stone is one of the most knowledgeable announcer in the game.
   27. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:12 AM (#2563879)
I thought the guns were juiced until I saw Papelbon hitting 95 MPH on most of his fastballs, which is pretty typical for him. The gun might have been abour 1 MPH high, but that's about it I'd estimate.
   28. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:13 AM (#2563880)
Manny D -> Okajima -> Papelbon is a lights out bullpen. That's fun.

I loved how Manny stood at home plate, both arms raised, until well after the ball had cleared the fence. Classic.

I too thought the umpiring was merely weird and inconsistent, not biased against one or the other team.
   29. Dan Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:13 AM (#2563881)
And granted, Papelbon didn't have his best outing, but if he were only throwing 92 or 91, I don't think he'd have been getting pop-ups like that. Obviously he didn't have his best swing and miss fastball, but if the gun were really that far off, he would've been getting tattooed.
   30. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:14 AM (#2563882)
btw, if Manny doesn't walk-off, Gagne was coming in.
   31. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:26 AM (#2563885)
Paplebons outing might have been a little easier if Lowell makes that throw he has made a thousand times all year...
   32. Mattbert Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:42 AM (#2563888)
Most of the gun readings I noticed for Papelbon were 96-98, which is consistent with the +2-3 mph I've been noting for all the TBS broadcasts I've watched so far. I don't recall Paps throwing his split at 91-92 this year. They had Dice working at 95-97 with his fastball, even after their own summary graphic said he tops out at 95. In the NY/CLE game, they had Pettitte working at 91-92, which I don't buy. Their gun is definitely a touch hot, not egregiously so, but it's been awfully consistent across all the games I've watched.

Ted Robinson is pretty bland, but Stone's done a good job. I think Cal has been the highlight of their studio bunch, hands down. I enjoy listening to him.

Iassogna is f**king brutal. I have no idea if he jobbed either team badly enough to significantly affect the outcome because it seemed like all he did was miss calls. The most obnoxious ones were the two check swing "strikes" he called (one on each team, Lugo and Figgins I think) that were, charitably speaking, very borderline after which he refused to consult the 1B or 3B umpire. Neither was so obvious on replay that he should've called it on his own; that was just flat out f**king arrogance.
   33. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: October 06, 2007 at 06:48 AM (#2563889)
   34. Joel W Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:31 AM (#2563902)
So I'm at a shabbat dinner, following the games on my blackberry, and just, well, wow. F'ing great. What a shot by manny. So happy.
   35. Joel W Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:37 AM (#2563903)
Oh, and JD Drew! He came through early! Give him credit.
   36. Joel W Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:37 AM (#2563904)
Sorry bot that, i guess I was making up for Gambling Rent's non post.
   37. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:37 AM (#2563905)
All the series are 2-0. That's disappointing, in a way. One of the 0-2 teams is bound to come back--I wonder which one (the Phillies, I suspect. . .).
   38. Joel W Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:44 AM (#2563908)
I'll go with the Yanks over the others Vaux. They win game three, then they have Wang at home, and there's a sick game five. At least that's the narrative I have in my head.
   39. Mattbert Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:48 AM (#2563910)
Yeah, I picked the Indians in 5, so the Yankees need to sack up and do their part so I don't look like an idiot.
   40. Chip Posted: October 06, 2007 at 08:04 AM (#2563912)
The best reactions to game 2 came from Manny, of course, in his unprecedented series of postgame interviews. Part Nuke LaLoush with a Washington Heights accent, part Zen master meditating on the nature of life in today's complicated world:

"In that situation, that guy has gotten me out so many times. But baseball's like that. Sometimes you get me, sometimes I get you."

... and ...

"It feels great. It's been a long time since I've done something special like that. But I haven't been right all year long. When you don't feel good and still get hits, that's when you know you're a bad man."

That's when you know you're a bad man. Perfect.
   41. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 06, 2007 at 09:01 AM (#2563915)
Those quotes are awesome

I wish the these games were best of 7. Playoff baseball is the best.

Do we really need 162 to sort out the king, 156 would get the job done , right?
   42. Robert S. Posted: October 06, 2007 at 09:10 AM (#2563917)
Damn, Manny rules.
   43. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:05 PM (#2563949)
Manny is now one behind Bernie's record for postseason HRs. In 152 fewer postseason at-bats.
   44. The Original SJ Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:11 PM (#2563953)
Manny is probably going to get drilled next year his first night in Anaheim, right?
   45. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:16 PM (#2563956)
Yankees fans are really hung up on celebrations. On WFAN, we've been subjected to days and days of discussions about how the Mets celebrating their successes caused other teams to try harder to beat them. When it was pointed out that the Yankees players celebrate quite a bit as well, the excuse is that they do it in the dugout so it's okay. Forget that they take a curtain call for every HR that they hit and that ARod has occasionally thrown the bat after hitting a walkoff.

Manny watching his shot go out of the park was not much different from the dance of joy that K-Rod would have done if he shut him down.
   46. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:22 PM (#2563960)
Yankees fans are really hung up on celebrations.


So because Yankee fan #1 says "A"
and Yankee fan #2 says "B"
and talk radio caller #3 says "C",

all Yankee fans are guilty of believing "A", "B", and "C", all at the same time?
   47. The Original SJ Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:22 PM (#2563961)
I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying Mike Scioscia is probably going to seek some revenge, considering Manny's posing and the pitch that knocked Vlad out of the game.
   48. The Original SJ Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:28 PM (#2563964)
and you may be confusing Yankee fans with Thom Brennamen.

When it was pointed out that the Yankees players celebrate quite a bit as well, the excuse is that they do it in the dugout so it's okay

Once again, I am not saying the walkoff wasn't worthy of the celebration, but you don't really see a difference between these two things?
   49. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:34 PM (#2563967)
I think Otto is probably right about Manny getting drilled.

And that's an interesting point about pitcher celebrations. Does anyone ever complain about them? The only reason I can think of that they might not be equivalent is that they're more clearly the result of adrenaline-- like Papelbon's utterly insane series of gestures while coming off the mound in the 8th (I think) last night.
   50. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:37 PM (#2563968)
The only thing I can think of about pitcher celebrations as opposed to batter celebrations is that technically there's a live ball when a batter celebrates (though often it is destined to leave the park), and a pitcher celebrating the final out of an inning does so when there's no game going on. I don't think this is great reasoning.

I'm sure contributing to it are the multiple video clips of batters celebrating and not advancing as many bases on the hit as they probably should. Most of these clips, by the way, are of Alfonso Soriano.
   51. Xander Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:40 PM (#2563970)
All the series are 2-0. That's disappointing, in a way. One of the 0-2 teams is bound to come back--I wonder which one (the Phillies, I suspect. . .).
Interesting that you pick the only team that lost its 2 games at home. Not saying you're wrong. Just interesting.
   52. The Original SJ Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:42 PM (#2563972)
I can't remember who did it, but I think one of the Perez brothers did a little dance when he struck someone out. Someone hit a double off him, stood on second base and did the same dance, that was humorous.
   53. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:43 PM (#2563973)
And that's an interesting point about pitcher celebrations. Does anyone ever complain about them?
Well, there was Miguel Tejada in 2003, but he thought that Lowe was directly taunting the A's dugout, so that was a bit different.

Scioscia has been quite clear, for years, that his team "won't play the game that way" - won't throw at opposing hitters, won't start or extend the cycles of retaliation. Whether plunking Manny would be justified or not under the code of baseball, I would be extremely surprised if Scioscia changed his tune on intentional HBPs so suddenly.
   54. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:44 PM (#2563974)
Otto (I really prefer your old handle BTW),

I was using your post as a jumping off point about the general subject celebrations. To me, Manny's celebration is hardly likely to get him thrown at because it doesn't seem to ever happen to him, even though he always watches his HR. I don't mean to imply that you hold those opinions about Yankees celebrations vs. other teams, but it does seem like a pretty lame excuse because:

a) The other team can still see you doing that stuff in the dugout, and
b) The Yankees do plenty of celebrating on the field, such as the curtain calls on 4th inning solo HRs and ARod throwing his bat.

I'm extremely pro-celebration by the way. I love the way Papelbon reacts after a successful outing, for example. I also loved watching Rocker until he started saying really stupid stuff.
   55. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:46 PM (#2563976)
I'm extremely pro-celebration by the way. I love the way Papelbon reacts after a successful outing, for example. I also loved watching Rocker until he started saying really stupid stuff.
Me too. One of my favorite baseball moments of recent years was Lastings Milledge high-fiving the fans on the way to the dugout after an extra-inning homer.
   56. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:48 PM (#2563977)
I'm also generally pro-celebration. I liked Pettitte's reaction when he wriggled out of a leadoff triple situation without giving up a run.

But I think curtain calls are different - they're motivated entirely by fans, and in more than one game I've attended, it was the only way to continue with the game normally.
   57. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:48 PM (#2563979)
MCoA,

This is point #1 in the talk radio case against Milledge. God, I really, really hate that attitude. Jump around and get excited for crying out loud--it's a fun game. It's not like he's pointing his finger in someone's face.
   58. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:50 PM (#2563982)
I think Milledge gets (and deserves) some condemnation for loafing in the field, for occasionally giving ABs away, and maybe for being disruptive to the team. The HR/high five thing is just a convenient piece of video to show over and over while an analyst talks about how awful he is.
   59. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:51 PM (#2563983)
Yeah, curtain calls are different. They've gotten waaaay out of hand at Yankee Stadium, but that's not the fault of the current players.

When did that get started by the way? Because one could argue that the first wave of players to take so many curtain calls is partly responsible for the situation now, where the fans expect it.
   60. The Original SJ Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:51 PM (#2563985)
Funny, I have never been a fan of your current handle either.
   61. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:53 PM (#2563987)
If the players didn't go out for them every five minutes, would the fans keep doing them? I agree that I'm baffled by when it started.
   62. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:53 PM (#2563988)
How about if I change to Otto the Old Guy?
   63. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:55 PM (#2563991)
By the way, since this is a game 2 reaction thread, I thought:

1) Francona did a nice job. I'm not sure about Lopez, but that's what he's there for-- and I liked Tito not waiting on Matsuzaka. Looks like his slow hook may be an artifact of the regular season (let's hope). Then aggressively going to Delcarmen, Okajima, and Papelbon, was excellent, and not how all managers would have played it, I imagine.

2) Okajima looked good. His control was perhaps not quite so pinpoint as it was back in April and May, but he had good stuff, to my eyes.

3) Manny Ramirez is a bad man.
   64. philly Posted: October 06, 2007 at 01:58 PM (#2563993)
I loved how Manny stood at home plate, both arms raised, until well after the ball had cleared the fence. Classic.


I find it's not just that they were raised and raised for a very long time, it's the way his hands were open and pointed palm out. It just struck me as so distinctive and Manny. You expect clenched fists pointed inward.

The openness of the gesture just exuded such pure joy.
   65. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:07 PM (#2563998)
"The openness of the gesture just exuded such pure joy."

This may be part of the reason Manny never gets thrown at for these things. His gestures seem less about showboating and more about reveling in the moment. Well, there's that, and the whole 500 career HRs. Those help, too.

Someone may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Lugo's sailing around third to home with his arms spread like wings was pretty great, too.
   66. John DiFool2 Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:12 PM (#2564001)
Manny has lost a base or three over the years when he's done his admiring act-if I'm the opposition he can feel free to keep doing it.
   67. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:22 PM (#2564008)

And that's an interesting point about pitcher celebrations. Does anyone ever complain about them? The only reason I can think of that they might not be equivalent is that they're more clearly the result of adrenaline-- like Papelbon's utterly insane series of gestures while coming off the mound in the 8th (I think) last night.


I can honestly say I mimiced those gestures in my living rooms this morning (the game was on for me, this morning).

My mother started B!@#$ing at me, sayign I looked like I was having a seizure.
   68. Dave Cyprian Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:31 PM (#2564011)
Manny! Seems as good as any time to revisit this Bradford article from earlier in the week:
Ramirez zones in on an object, usually a number somewhere near Section 17, to make sure his eyes are focused properly... He never goes into an at-bat without a plan.


And "mad props" to Francona. This guy is on top of his managing game right now. His pitcher deployment through two games has been essentially flawless, our six players who can hit consistently are at the top of the line-up, and the players have rewarded him with two hard fought games. Go Sox.

Heal quickly Pedroia.
   69. PJ Martinez Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:43 PM (#2564017)
On the subject of Francona and his use of Lopez, a decent point made in the second part of this exchange on SoSH:

InsideTheParker: "I think Lopez' value lies in his reverse split: you bring him in to face a lefty, they replace lefty with righty, and he gets the out. With a true loogy, you might be in real trouble when the opposition subs in a rh batter."

Todd Benzinger: "Or, in this case, you turn around a switch hitter. Although I was ######## about it at the time, it was the optimal use of Lopez. I thought they should have brought in MDC right there to go for the K, but it was a reasonable move that worked especially given that Lopez was turning around a switch-hitter."
   70. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:46 PM (#2564018)
You do realize that if you send that exchange by carrier pigeon to the sports department at the LA Times (they don't likee the tubes), that's like two months worth of columns about how those guys have their noses in their spreadsheets.
   71. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:51 PM (#2564021)
Manny is the second best hitter I have personally seen play.
   72. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:51 PM (#2564023)
Lopez does not have a reverse split. He was better against lefties in 2006. He was better against lefties in 2005. He was better against lefties in 2004. He was better against lefties in 2003. He was better against lefties in the minors. He throws a submarine sinker and slider from the left side. No submarine sinker/slider lefty in the history of baseball has been more effective against RHB. That doesn't happen.

Taking 180 PA as affirmative evidence of a historical anomaly is, to me, a radical misuse of statistics.

I thought it definitely should have been Delcarmen. The rest of Francona's moves with the bullpen were really excellent, and the Lopez move worked out, so I'm not particularly worked up about Tito. It's the misuse of numbers that bugs me.
   73. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:57 PM (#2564027)
I'm quite worried about the Vladdy HBP. If he gets hurt, and we beat them, we'll get labelled as headhunters who didn't beat the Angels fairly with Vlad.

If he doesn't get hurt, we either start a beanball war which we don't need, or Vladdy just gets pissed and hits 8 home runs in the next 3 games.
   74. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 06, 2007 at 02:59 PM (#2564028)
...rethinking on Morales...

His numbers have a pretty big platoon split in the minors and majors. More than that, Scioscia has clearly platooned him over his career, as Morales has had ~75% of his career PA against righties. So, there was a good bit of value in turning Morales around. There still isn't value in having Lopez face a righty instead of a lefty, but it might at least even out enough to make some sense.
   75. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:01 PM (#2564030)
I can't remember who did it, but I think one of the Perez brothers did a little dance when he struck someone out. Someone hit a double off him, stood on second base and did the same dance, that was humorous.


Carlos Perez.

Best Regards

John
   76. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:08 PM (#2564033)
And that's an interesting point about pitcher celebrations. Does anyone ever complain about them? The only reason I can think of that they might not be equivalent is that they're more clearly the result of adrenaline-- like Papelbon's utterly insane series of gestures while coming off the mound in the 8th (I think) last night.

For some reason, that reminded me of Dennis Eckersley when he did the fist-pump-and-point routine at the Blue Jays in the 8th inning of game 4 of the 1992 ALCS. We all know how that ended...
   77. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:09 PM (#2564035)
I didn't want to see Lopez there either but I've come around to the idea that maybe he's better than I think. His results (2.70 ERA) have been good so maybe I've been a little DIPSy about him. And he also never gives up HRs, so you figure that even if he blows it against Morales, you're still in the game for your next guy to come in.

Another thing in his favor is that, as noted above by the SOSHers, is that Morales is a much better hitter from the left side--887 OPS to 577 in 07. This split was less pronounced, but still there, in the minors as well.

(Yes, I'm defending Tito. Will miracles never cease?)
   78. Kirby Kyle Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:19 PM (#2564043)
This may be the first time I've seen a guy hit a walkoff homer and then high-five his teammates before he reached first base.
   79. Darren Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:20 PM (#2564044)
Class move by K-Rod. He was headed off the field as Manny rounded third. He stopped, bowed his head, and waited for Manny to pass without a word. Showed a certain humility in defeat.
   80. scotto Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:22 PM (#2564047)
But I think curtain calls are different - they're motivated entirely by fans, and in more than one game I've attended, it was the only way to continue with the game normally.

Baloney. If the players didn't revel in them, the fans would sit back down and watch the damn game. Besides, how does people cheering make the game impossible to continue? This point is inane.
   81. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:26 PM (#2564050)
Papelbon's gestures last night looked alot like excited masturbatory wailing. I actually thought he might consciously be giving the effect of stroking the Papelboner.
   82. philly Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:28 PM (#2564052)
So, there was a good bit of value in turning Morales around. There still isn't value in having Lopez face a righty instead of a lefty, but it might at least even out enough to make some sense.


Iirc, Francona specifically stated that they wanted to turn around Morales as the driving force for the decision to take out Matsuzaka. Lopez is the guy to turn him around in the middle of the game.
   83. Answer Guy Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:45 PM (#2564063)
I bash Tito when he screws up, so I feel like I should say something when he plays everything perfectly. So I'm saying something. Great managing last night.
   84. tfbg9 Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:47 PM (#2564064)
Francona specifically stated that they wanted to turn around Morales


It would seem there's a clear deliniation between regular season Tito and 8 day best of 5 post season Tito. And good thing there is, right?

I like Tito. Nobody else brought home a damn ring.
   85. bibigon Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:49 PM (#2564066)
I'm pretty sure Figgins at one point was laughing at Papelbon's gestures - which were legitimately a bit much I thought. This was the 8th inning of game 2 of the ALDS - a big spot, but hardly "I F'N ROCK" worthy.
   86. robinred Posted: October 06, 2007 at 03:49 PM (#2564067)
I am kind of pulling for the Angels here, (a good pal is from Anaheim and a hardcore Angel fan) but I was glad Ramirez came through. I think the media (not the fans so much) sometimes focus too much on Ramirez's bad D and oddities and forget he is one the 20 or so greatest hitters ever. I was glad that article about his training ran the other day.
   87. Döner Kebap Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:03 PM (#2564079)
I'm pretty sure Figgins at one point was laughing at Papelbon's gestures - which were legitimately a bit much I thought. This was the 8th inning of game 2 of the ALDS - a big spot, but hardly "I F'N ROCK" worthy.

Actually Figgins was laughing at the ump. He never saw Papelbon walk off the mound (there's a replay from another angle). Figgins didn't agree with the call and was arguing with/laughing at Iassogna's judgement; he never even looked in Papelbon's direction.

But I agree that the celebrating was a bit much. Maybe more understandable when you realize he'd thrown about six strikes that inning that were inexplicably called balls, one of which resulting in the Rivera walk.
   88. Lassus Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:09 PM (#2564083)
It would seem there's a clear deliniation between regular season Tito and 8 day best of 5 post season Tito.


I don't think so. I think it's more that Sox fans are kind of mental.
   89. chris p Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:20 PM (#2564087)
on lopez's "reverse platoon split" ... you're talking about a guy that is brought in specifically to face tough lefties and to flip around switch hitters--the right handed hitters he faces is in large part switch hitters who can't bat right handed and other guys that don't scare you... meanwhile, the lefties he faces are going to be the best left handed hitters the other team has. iow, i wouldn't read too much into his splits--like mca says, he's a submarining lefty, what do you expect?
   90. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:26 PM (#2564088)
Lopez walks too many guys though, it really annoys me.
   91. frannyzoo Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:33 PM (#2564094)
As a casual Red Sox fan (more of a Yankee-hater actually, the Sox seem like the best Yankee anti-venom), I enjoyed Manny being Manny at the plate for an hour or so after he hit it. If it had been ARod or Jeter doing it, however, I would now need a new Television, wall, window and have glass and electronics strewn all over my front yard.
   92. Gonfalon B. Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:35 PM (#2564096)
I wish the these games were best of 7. Playoff baseball is the best.
Do we really need 162 to sort out the king, 156 would get the job done , right?


The Padres and Mets wholeheartedly concur.
   93. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:43 PM (#2564098)
I'm also not convinced Terry Francona is a genius. I mean, all he had to do was "Not use Gagne"
   94. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:44 PM (#2564100)
If the season was a 156-gamer, how much earlier would the Mets have had to start their collapse?
   95. scotto Posted: October 06, 2007 at 04:47 PM (#2564102)
Gratuitous insult deleted. My apologies.
   96. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 06, 2007 at 05:13 PM (#2564110)
It was funny though.
   97. Mattbert Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:03 PM (#2564158)
This was the 8th inning of game 2 of the ALDS - a big spot, but hardly "I F'N ROCK" worthy.

It's only his second postseason experience, and his first as a key contributor to the team. Not too surprising that he'd be a little more amped up than usual.
   98. Gonfalon B. Posted: October 06, 2007 at 07:29 PM (#2564183)
The "act like you've been there before* (*at least twice)" alibi, eh? As long as we can all agree that Lastings Milledge is still an immature hiphop devil, I'm okay with that.
   99. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: October 06, 2007 at 10:35 PM (#2564341)
Is anyone else worried about Cleveland? Their pitching has looked very good and that lineup is tough.

Phil C.,

Sorry about the rugby team. I caught the last 25 minutes and was pulling for them. NZL-FRA was a shocker. There are few games I can recall in which a team dominated by such a margin and still lost.
   100. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 06, 2007 at 11:43 PM (#2564447)
Sorry about the rugby team. I caught the last 25 minutes and was pulling for them. NZL-FRA was a shocker. There are few games I can recall in which a team dominated by such a margin and still lost.

Thanks mate.

I am more upset about the NZ loss than ours. they are great team who deserved more, France are a lucky bunch of #####, who NEVER GIVE UP
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