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   1. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: October 04, 2008 at 05:53 AM (#2967635)
Scioscia-Ball vs. 2-Run-Homer

2-Run-Homer wins.
   2. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 05:54 AM (#2967636)
Youks made a couple of real beautiful plays in the 9th.

Just real nice plays, with the tense situation and all that jazz.

Terrific win. Papelbon tossed strikes.
   3. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 04, 2008 at 05:55 AM (#2967637)
I also thought the bullpen management was dubious tonight.

Basically, though, this is just a really good all-around team. They're good at every single aspect of the game. Fun to watch.
   4. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: October 04, 2008 at 05:56 AM (#2967639)
K-Rod looked absolutely terrible. Just amazingly awful. Did they overwork him

krod never had to get more than 3 outs the entire year. What were you expecting. I said at the time in the chatter it would go bad. (first thing that actually moved me to comment today, was just chilling and watching the game up to that point...)
   5. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:00 AM (#2967642)
I dunno...MDC has not exactly convinced me he's reliable in the
harsh lights that are October Baseball w/Skippy and Bucky and the
guy from the Dick Tracy Movie.
   6. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:02 AM (#2967643)
And to me, the ought Masterson start the 8th question was more of a platoon thing, as opposed to a
where the hell is Papelbon thing.
   7. Dan Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:05 AM (#2967644)
--Funny thing about the 9th--I was sure that Papi’s ball was a HR and thought Drew’s was a flyout.

Same here. I thought Drew's was a routine fly to center until I watch Hunter retreating and then giving up.
   8. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:06 AM (#2967645)
I just don't think Masterson is as good as Francona and Epstein think he is. I haven't seen much reason that I should trust him to get even mediocre LHB out, and he showed it giving up that triple to Chone.

I think Masterson is better against righties than Manny D, but if there's a mixed group in a mid-lev situation, I'd rather have Delcarmen than Masterson.
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:08 AM (#2967648)
--Funny thing about the 9th--I was sure that Papi’s ball was a HR and thought Drew’s was a flyout.
Me too.

And I shouldn't really be complaining. I'm not complaining, exactly. We won, and I kinda love this team, this all-around talent. I'm more, just, confused about what the Red Sox see in Masterson that I don't see. I don't see an out pitch against lefties. I'd love to be wrong, because a Justin Masterson who is effective against lefties is a $7M set-up man, but I don't see it, not yet.
   10. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:10 AM (#2967649)
Ive really got no basis to have an opinion on either yet. Neither will
suprprise me at all if they BB people.

I thought MDC looked pretty tight in the playoffs last year.
   11. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:10 AM (#2967650)
Same here. I thought Drew's was a routine fly to center until I watch Hunter retreating and then giving up.

Probably has something to do with the idiot announcer Chip Caray, who pissed himself on every routine fly but didn't even react to Drew's hit.
   12. JB H Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:14 AM (#2967652)
There probably isn't a big difference between Masterson and Delcarmen. Masterson's stats are mostly as a starter so he should do better than them, and his HR rate in the majors is flukey high. I'm guessing Figgins is a groundball hitter, so maybe they were working the gb/fb split in having him face Masterson in the 8th

Man what an intense game. I love the playoffs <3 <3 <3
   13. Dan Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:28 AM (#2967655)
So are we ready for every single fan of 29 other teams to root against us in the ALCS vs. the Rays? I guess most people were rooting for Cleveland last year, but this is probably going to be far stronger. It's just so weird to me to be the villains just 4 short years after seemingly everyone was on our side, hoping we'd see the Red Sox break their long string of futility.
   14. Shredder Posted: October 04, 2008 at 06:37 AM (#2967657)
krod never had to get more than 3 outs the entire year. What were you expecting. I said at the time in the chatter it would go bad.
If Rapuano doesn't screw up that pick off call at second as bad as he screwed up Ortiz's check swings last night, maybe Frankie pitches differently to Drew. Guess we'll never know.

The Sox deserved gamed 1, and game 2 was a great game. But someone owes that piece of human excrement a big gift basket. Personally, I can only hope for a casual meeting in the street where I can deliver the swift kick in the balls he so richly deserves.

I'll be rooting for the Rays because of Maddon and Percival, but good luck in the ALCS.
   15. RobertMachemer Posted: October 04, 2008 at 07:08 AM (#2967662)
I would root for the "Devil Rays" against any team but the Red Sox, but the "_____ Rays?" No way.
   16. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 04, 2008 at 08:06 AM (#2967671)
Shredder - it was a shocking miss. The umpiring tonight was terrible - strike zone was very inconsistant.

Few points on todays game

+ Chip Carey is a ####### disgrace and can't call a game to save his life. What a joker - living off the family name.
+ Maybe everyone can see why Dice K shits us all so much now.
+ Jason Bay - great bat - great pick up - can't throw to save his life - but man I love him.
+ JD Drew - I love him. I thought Papis was out of there as well
+ K Rod - tone down the antics now mate - God is not there for you in the playoffs as you show him too much love in the regular season maybe...
+ Why did Masterson start the 8th? This made no sense at all
+ Okijima starting the 7th as well was a big WTF - especially as he was lucky to not have had Gamer Anderson take him yard earlier...
+ Pedroia has no hits yet - I thought his shot that Gamer caught was a homer off the bat as well.
   17. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: October 04, 2008 at 08:39 AM (#2967675)
Today's proof that nobody evan questions the roll of closers any more.

Caption under the front page picture on espn.com:
K-Rod blew the save, giving up the game-winning homer to J.D. Drew.
   18. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 04, 2008 at 09:26 AM (#2967679)
If Rapuano doesn't screw up that pick off call at second as bad as he screwed up Ortiz's check swings last night, maybe Frankie pitches differently to Drew. Guess we'll never know.

It was not at all clear that the tag was ever actually applied.
   19. Erik, Pinch-Commenter Posted: October 04, 2008 at 10:01 AM (#2967685)
From my seat down the left field line, Ortiz' shot never really got far enough off the ground, it was more of a line drive that I was surprised went as far as it did. Drew's hit had me worried off the bat and pretty much ready to leave three of four seconds later.
   20. Darren Posted: October 04, 2008 at 12:09 PM (#2967699)
I'm not quite as down on Masterson as MCOA is. He had very nice numbers as a reliever and wasn't used as a Roogy, so I assume he did reasonably well against lefties. My point is more that I don't understand how he's a) leapfrogged Delcarmen, who's been a good to excellent reliever for the past two years b) considered sooo great that they let him work through an obviously lousy night last night, to the point where they needlessly kept him in the game when they should have gone to Pap. My guess on the latter is that Francona was going to go to Lopez to get the lefty but chose to just go to Pap because he needed a K. Again, though, if you're going to use Pap for 2, just do it from the get go.

On the Rapuano call, the replays showed fairly convincing that Crisp got his foot back in. That said, what the hell was Coco thinking?
   21. bunyon Posted: October 04, 2008 at 12:29 PM (#2967704)
4 2-0 series. Damn it.
   22. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:00 PM (#2967734)
Coco was safe. The throw beat him, but the tag took a long time to apply, and he was back at the base first. I agree with Darren that there was no reason for Coco to have been caught like that - he didn't appear to be leaning to third, so I don't really understand what happened.
   23. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:05 PM (#2967736)
It was not at all clear that the tag was ever actually applied.


I must say, I find myself in rare agreement with the Tiny Welcher here on this point.
   24. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:08 PM (#2967739)
If Tito views MDC and Masterson as essentially equal, it makes some sense to hold back MDC in case of extras, to use
in the 10th-11th if needed.

To not use Lopez to try to get the first out of the 8th is a question, no?
   25. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:08 PM (#2967740)
crap, i think we'll be having dynasty-talk this off-season.
   26. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:46 PM (#2967752)
So, if Beckett is even slightly hurt, do you run him out there tomorrow? I don't see it. I start Byrd, take the 40% chance of a win instead of a 55% chance, and give Beckett another week off. He'll still be available in game 5 if it comes down to that, but I don't see a reason to rush him in a situation where you only have to win 1 of 3.
   27. tfbg9 Posted: October 04, 2008 at 02:59 PM (#2967754)
Yes. 2-0 lead with Byrd for Game 3 = 2-1 lead with Lester for Game 4.
   28. plink Posted: October 04, 2008 at 03:06 PM (#2967757)
To throw my 2 cents in, I know I felt much more confident with Masterson in the game is August and September than with Delcarmen. MDC had some good games, but too many of the "start the inning, give up a couple base-runners, get taken out" variety.

Foolish memory. Looking back at MDC's game logs, he had 6 games where he allowed multiple baserunners in less than one inning, 3 in August and September; and the Red Sox won 5 of those games. Masterson had 4 in fewer appearances, and Sox won only one of those games (and looks like similarly leverages situations for Masterson and MDC). Go, go objective data!
   29. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 04, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2967761)
That pick-off call was correct. Kendrick's foot blocked only part of the bag and he tagged Crisp on the butt (maybe) after his toe was in. If we want to ##### about the umps, Masterson got squeezed hardcore on the strikezone in the seventh.
   30. Mike Webber Posted: October 04, 2008 at 03:27 PM (#2967769)
--Funny thing about the 9th--I was sure that Papi’s ball was a HR and thought Drew’s was a flyout.

Same here. I thought Drew's was a routine fly to center until I watch Hunter retreating and then giving up.


I haven't ever been to Anaheim, is it possible due to stadium configuration or winds or something that the ball carries better to center field there than right field? That Bay homer in the first was bomb to center, a couple of shots to right seemed to stay in by both clubs.

Could it just be the camera angle?
   31. villageidiom Posted: October 05, 2008 at 02:38 PM (#2969050)
But when Pap came on with none out, it begged the question: “If you’re willing to use him for 2 IP, why not go to him right away?”
Really it begs the question, "If you're not starting the inning with him, why have him warming up?" But that's a more obvious answer.

They want to use Papelbon as much as necessary, and as little as necessary. There might have been better choices to start the 8th than Masterson, but with a 70% win probability to start the inning, it doesn't seem like Papelbon is necessary. As soon as Masterson gave up the triple, Boston still had a lead, but their win probability was down near 40%. They were winning, but given the context they were likely to lose. That's the perfect time for a stopper.

Of course, it helps to have a stopper warmed up. Papelbon was warm not because they intended to use him for 2 IP, but because they wanted to be ready in case it was necessary. If someone else can get even one out, that's less work for Papelbon if they only play 9, and more he can pitch past 9 innings if it comes to that. Again, whether Masterson was the best choice is another story; but I think not starting the 8th with Papelbon is a fine decision as long as he was ready to come in when needed.
   32. cfrtb Posted: October 05, 2008 at 03:45 PM (#2969077)
Would it have been bad to bring him in when the bases were loaded during the 7th? He could have then pitched through the 8th (or once Texeira batted). It worked out, but that was most likely going to be the big inning by the Angels. Masterson coming back out to pitch to Figgins wasn't horrible (1 HR all year), but was Francona going to leave him in for GA (if Figgins made an out)?

Also, if that game went extra innings I have to think the Sox would be the favorites. We had Delcarmen, Lopez, and Wakefield (I am not including Byrd because it seems he would pitch if Beckett doesn't).
   33. JB H Posted: October 05, 2008 at 04:21 PM (#2969093)
If pitchers could come into a game without having to warm up, then Papelbon would've pitched in the 7th with the bases loaded.
   34. Darren Posted: October 05, 2008 at 04:31 PM (#2969097)
vi,

If your argument basically boils down to 'starting the 8th with someone other than Pap is defensible,' then I've got no beef with that. But in this particular situation, Masterson didn't look good and a lefty (who he has trouble with) was due up.
   35. tfbg9 Posted: October 05, 2008 at 04:53 PM (#2969107)
Did Masterson improve vs LHB's as the season went on, after the switch to the 'pen?

And why the hell are we still talking about this damned thing--we won the ballgame! :-)
   36. cfrtb Posted: October 05, 2008 at 05:16 PM (#2969115)
I thought he was already warming. my mistake
   37. Darren Posted: October 05, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2969124)
#36--because our playoff games our few and far between this year.
   38. ekogan Posted: October 06, 2008 at 04:56 AM (#2971306)
Mistakes Francona made tonight: putting Lowell in the lineup, letting Beckett pitch the 5th so he could get the win.
Typical of his tendency to give extra breaks to his veterans.
On the other hand, he managed the relievers brilliantly.
I probably would have put Wakefield in instead of Lopez in the 12th, but there were no good options at this point.
If Chone Figgins doesn't catch those two line shots into the corner in consecutive innings, the Red Sox win the game.
   39. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 06, 2008 at 04:59 AM (#2971311)
On the other hand, he managed the relievers brilliantly.
I probably would have put Wakefield in instead of Lopez in the 12th, but there were no good options at this point.


Uh, I would have put Byrd in over Lopez given the string of RHB coming up.

However, the run wasn't Lopez's fault. Grounder through the infield, sac bunt, bloop. Shrug.

Also, I would have pinch hit Casey for Cora.
   40. ekogan Posted: October 06, 2008 at 05:14 AM (#2971320)
Also, I would have pinch hit Casey for Cora.

Cora hit a rocket off Weaver.
Pinch hitters get a reduction to their stats for coming into the game cold.
For example, both of Sox's pinch hitters struck out today.
I don't think pinch hitting makes sense most of the time, unless the disparity
in hitting talent between a player and his PH is enormous.
   41. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 06, 2008 at 02:44 PM (#2971444)
There were few things more predictable than Javier Lopez giving up a run while facing a string of RH hitters last night. He wasn't hit hard, but that was exactly the kind of high-leverage choking I've come to expect from him. I don't know if Byrd would have been much better, necessarily. The Angels' middle relief is just much better than the Red Sox'.
   42. Dan Posted: October 06, 2008 at 02:56 PM (#2971458)
Jered Weaver beating Javier Lopez means the Angels' middle relief is much better? That's their long man vs. the Red Sox's LOOGY. The middle relievers for both teams were outstanding last night.
   43. ericr Posted: October 06, 2008 at 03:13 PM (#2971475)
I wondered why Lopez was in there instead of Byrd who'd been warming up at the same time.
   44. villageidiom Posted: October 06, 2008 at 03:59 PM (#2971529)
If your argument basically boils down to 'starting the 8th with someone other than Pap is defensible,' then I've got no beef with that. But in this particular situation, Masterson didn't look good and a lefty (who he has trouble with) was due up.
It does, and I agree.

However, the run wasn't Lopez's fault. Grounder through the infield, sac bunt, bloop. Shrug.
I won't absolve him of blame - it's not like you can assign it to anyone else - but yeah, he basically did his job.

Mistakes Francona made tonight: putting Lowell in the lineup
Is Lowell a net negative now? Should they put him in the 1988 Kirk Gibson role?
   45. ekogan Posted: October 06, 2008 at 05:02 PM (#2971588)
Is Lowell a net negative now? Should they put him in the 1988 Kirk Gibson role?

He was a couple of steps slower in the field and didn't do much at the plate.
A gimpy Lowell is worse than either Casey or Kotsay.
Right now he's even worse than Cora.

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