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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

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   1. Darren Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:48 AM (#2119116)
Can we just make all the rumored trades, please? Lowell for Peavy, something for Miguel Cabrera, Loretta for Lugo. That'd be fine, okay?
   2. OlePerfesser Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:53 AM (#2119121)
(a) Trot ouched a wrist or something in tonight's game, so Wily Mo will prolly be in RF a little bit.

(b) To seem Sunshiney, Seanez and Tavarez got to work out a few kinks this weekend in mop-up duty; t'would be nice if one or both earned a portion of their millions in the remaining 2 months.

(c) I believe the Jermaine van Buren Era is over in Beantown.

(d) If Pantload looks hopeless Monday night, I'm going to be a bit concerned...

(e) ...unless we pick up Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera for 4 live arms now in low-A ball.
   3. Darren Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:56 AM (#2119123)
OleP. Welcome back. The place has been dead without you.

According to the rumors, Abreu would have waived his NT for Boston too. If that's the case, they look bad for not getting him... unless they have something else up their sleeve.
   4. OlePerfesser Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:06 AM (#2119136)
Apologies for being AWOL, Darren; work, travel, etc.

I can't criticize Theo for not taking on Abreu (esp. since Trot timed his injury so badly). He's just a better fit for what the Yanks needed, and they're utterly indifferent to cost-effectiveness.

Our problem is we need the same things a lot of other teams do: a quality starter and a couple hot relievers. Demand > supply.
   5. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:08 AM (#2119138)
FWIW, the Royals have been working on a seceret big multi-team deal too, I wouldn't be surprised if DeJesus is involved since Moore doesn't appear to realize he's the best player on this team and is locked up for reasonable $.

Maybe it's the same deal Theo is working.
   6. Darren Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:09 AM (#2119140)
Well, Olep, I grant Abreu would have been redundant for the Sox (12 hours ago, anyways!). But keeping him away from the Yankees would have had value, and having him next year would be good too. Then there's Lidel, who's cheap and bound to be as good as Snyder/Gabbard/me.
   7. OlePerfesser Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:12 AM (#2119141)
Stark also reports that the Giants have put Jason Schmidt back on the block, and the Mets, Sox, and Rangers are inquiring.

They have said he'd be "expensive," and the Mets are quoted as saying they won't part with either Milledge or Heilman for a "rent-a-pitcher."
   8. Darren Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:15 AM (#2119142)
How about the Red Sox version of Milledge: David Murphy! Surely he's worth Schmidt!
   9. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:22 AM (#2119150)
Abreu for failing Red Sox A-baller and AAA loogy.
Lowell to SD (or wherever he's rumoured to be headed), $9 off books.
Youk to third.
Nixon to first.
Wily Mo keeps being Wily Mo.
Lidle to rotation, Wells cut.
   10. OlePerfesser Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:25 AM (#2119154)
One pitcher who might not cost much is Livan, given his indifferent performance lately and his contract.

I'd give up a couple live arms for him, unless the medical reports on Pantload and Clement are encouraging.

Really, what we need is some health from those guys and a turnaround from either Tavarez or Seanez.
   11. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:41 AM (#2119173)
I understand that the Yanks did not have to pick up Abreau's option for 2008, so I think that they made out quite well. I, too, wish the Sox had gotten him and Lidle to keep them away from NY. The Phils will be lucky if one of those four guys has a few useful years in the majors.

OTOH, In Theo We Trust. I'll wait until the deadline to see if he pulls off a good deal.
   12. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:46 AM (#2119183)
They have said he'd be "expensive," and the Mets are quoted as saying they won't part with either Milledge or Heilman for a "rent-a-pitcher."

I don't think I'd trade Milledge for Schmidt straight up but if the Giants would take Heilman for Schmidt straight up, I'd pack Heilman's things and drive him to the airport.
   13. Jeff K. Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:47 AM (#2119185)
Lowell for Peavy,

This is actually rumored?
   14. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: July 31, 2006 at 05:09 AM (#2119210)
Lowell for Peavy,

This is actually rumored?


It's not happening. I'm starting to believe people keep repeating it solely to raise my blood pressure (not with fear that it'll happen, but with annoyance about having to refute it).
   15. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:15 AM (#2119320)
LOL Clement on the 60 DL

UNLESS it's a Lowell for Peavy Deal (LOLOLOLOLOLOOL), if Wells can give us 6-7 innings every 5 days, I wouldn't bother trading for a starter.

We need bullpen help... bad. I'd like to see Seanez DFA (better if he can be given away), Tavarez... Linebrink is my first on the wishlist... and for the pen:

Papelbon (Can come in earlier?)
Timlin (needs 2 days of rest between appearneces, and NO INHERITED RUNNERS)
Delcarmen (Workhorse 2)
Hansen (Inning here or there)
2 of Lopez/Corey/Hollister or whatever his name is (2 lefties)
Linebrink

I can live with that. Just no more Tavarez/Seanez

Also... Loretta... seirously, that guy needs some Roids. If he somehow ends up playing 1B, he'll be worse than Kevin Millar. THINK ABOUT THAT.

Nixon... Also needs roids.
   16. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:16 AM (#2119321)
Remember for a brief time, Keith Foulke was getting outs?
   17. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:22 AM (#2119322)
I think Manny Delcarmen could be on the DL soon with a proper ###### thumb.
   18. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:27 AM (#2119323)
Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox


I should start doing that again. I have been swearing and throwing things around in reaction to the Abreu trade.

Time to calm downm I think...
   19. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:48 AM (#2119328)
Let me just biotch at everybody on the roster before I go to sleep:

Youkilis - nothing except for the recent slump
Loretta - Need Roids
Ortiz - Clutch God, even though those things don't exist
Manny - He's Manny
Lowell - I thought he was going to stink up the joint, so no complaints. LOL if he can get Peavy though.
Varitek - Can't catch a baserunner to save his life, and has been terrible at the plate
Nixon - Needs Roids
Coco - Needs to stop popping up to short
A-Gon - Legitimately good glove, hot streak of late... but still swings at too many bad pitches
Cora - For his role, no complains
Mirabelli - Ugh
Kapler - He needs to be put out to pasture... I'd still rather have him than Willie Harris
WMP - Needs to be freed... and he's been more disciplined.

Pitchers:
Schilling - other than tonight solid
Beckett - The homers are getting out of hand
Lester - a little wild, but good stuff getting him out of trouble
Wakefield - Typical Wake year, not too concerned
Everybody else -either hurt or too shiitey

Pen:
Lopez: Has not been the LOOGY I wanted
Seanez/Tavarez: just die already
Papelbon: God
Timlin: needs more rest, needs less inherited runners
Delcarmen: overused
Hansen: I think he may have been called up too soon
Foulke: He was actually getting outs consistently at one point... but now he's hurt again.
   20. OlePerfesser Posted: July 31, 2006 at 11:57 AM (#2119359)
LOL Clement on the 60 DL

This goes to show how misplaced my priorities are--I thought his injuries were minor. I also forgot about Wake.

Remember for a brief time, Keith Foulke was getting outs?

And I totally forgot about Foulke. What's his health status?

As far as getting guys to keep 'em away from the MFY, that seems like a pretty expensive strategy. Unfortunately, you've got to let the lion eat its fill, and then you come along and see how much meat is left over.

I suggest we move tonight's game up to a noon start, so if Pantload's knees come apart or he can't get anybody out we have time to push the panic button before the 4 pm deadline.
   21. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:22 PM (#2119369)
If that's the case, they look bad for not getting him



Your on crack. The Red Sox don't look bad for not giving something for the priviledge of paying Abreau 16m a year for 2 more years. The Sox all ready have 1 overpaid outfield who is brilliantly terriable in the field. They don't need another.
   22. villageidiom Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:29 PM (#2119372)
And I totally forgot about Foulke. What's his health status?

He was scratched from a scheduled appearance yesterday with Pawtucket, due to a bad back.
   23. NTNgod Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:30 PM (#2119374)
The Red Sox don't look bad for not giving something for the priviledge of paying Abreau 16m a year for 2 more years.

FWIW, in the Globe, David Ortiz was quoted as saying "What are WE doing?"

So it appears, at least amongst some players, there's a hope/expectation that the Red Sox have a matching move of some sort coming...
   24. villageidiom Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:31 PM (#2119375)
Since nobody is actually discussing the Corey deal more than 20 posts in, I'm assuming it's a good deal, but of seemingly little consequence. If it were a bad deal there'd be a lot of grumbling; if it were of major consequence we'd see 587 posts on how dreamy Theo is.
   25. Fridas Boss Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:36 PM (#2119379)
FWIW, I flew back on the red eye from Salt Lake City with Keith Foulke last Thursday night. He had to carry-on bags slung over both shoulders and looked fine to me.

What was he doing in Salt Lake City?
   26. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 12:52 PM (#2119383)
FWIW, in the Globe, David Ortiz was quoted as saying "What are WE doing?"


Seems to me the Sox FO or manager isn't doing a very good job of managing the teams expectations.

If I'm a GM I RARELY make these inseason moves. I tell my players we upgraged during the offseason... You see Josh Becket, would you have rathered have him in April or July?
   27. karlmagnus Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:29 PM (#2119412)
You can't expect the Sox to carry $15mm per annum players two or three deep at each position, like the Yankees do. Given that fact, while the Abreu trade is annoying (what WERE the Phillies thinking of?) the less Theo does the better if it means giving up young arms. I think the bullpen's a strength not a weakness; Tavarez is coming round a bit, though Seanez may be toast. We need another starter, but if it's a 4-5th guy, only till Wake's back (yes, obviously if Detroit would trade us Justin Verlander I might even give them Petunia, but they won't.) The Lorettas of this world will presumably get us draft picks next year, so are therefore useful, though I'd probably bench him and call up Petunia at this stage. The Sox have to get the farm system churning out good players in quantity, and not do too many deals like Beckett/Ramirez/Sanchez, where they give away an ML ready pitcher as a throw-in.
   28. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:32 PM (#2119415)
Your on crack. The Red Sox don't look bad for not giving something for the priviledge of paying Abreau 16m a year for 2 more years. The Sox all ready have 1 overpaid outfield who is brilliantly terriable in the field. They don't need another.
Yup. The Sox have three major league corner outfielders on the roster already. (Plus, maybe this is the year for Nixon to stay heal... what?) Bobby Abreu has less value to the Red Sox than perhaps to any team in baseball. I assume the Sox have a plan for hte money coming off the books next year, so I don't think the value in locking up Abreu for '07 is not great. And Abreu, while his most likely scenario is All-Star offensive production, has a few red flags in defense and power that make him less than a sure bet.

What do y'all think of the Lugo rumors? My take - if the trade happens - is that the Sox think Mark Loretta can't handle up-the-middle defense, while Lugo would be gold glover at 2nd. What are the Sox rumored to be offering?

More than anything, I'm just sorta sad that it will be Abreu in pinstripes. I was a big fan of his in Philly, still remember, "Bobby Abraaaayyyyy-yooo" on the PA. And now he's the Yankee savior at a cut rate. Not cool.
FWIW, in the Globe, David Ortiz was quoted as saying "What are WE doing?"
That's just Papi being Papi. He's pretty open with reporters about #### like that, and I can understand why he'd want to see moves made. I doubt it's making a difference in the clubhouse.

Also, what's wrong with Manny D? Are there injury reports, has he been unlucky, or is he just returning to his previous state of bad command / good stuff / bad results?
   29. NTNgod Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:36 PM (#2119417)
Delcarmen has a screwed-up thumb (or something on his hand)
   30. NTNgod Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:40 PM (#2119421)
ProJo:
Rookie right-hander Manny Delcarmen is expected to be unavailable for a few days because of an irritation on his right thumb that makes it difficult for him to snap off his curveball and spot his four-seam fastball.

Delcarmen said yesterday he had been bothered by the problem for about a week or so, but had tried to pitch through it.
   31. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:48 PM (#2119427)
A bit on Corey - he was available because the Rangers needed to make room on the 40 man for Adam Eaton who was being activated from the 60 day DL (afaict).

He isn't a prospect - as he is in his early 30's but has been lights on this year in AA, AAA and good in limited MLB duty.

A career minor leaguer he has pitched in nearly 500 minor league games in and only 20 in MLB (16 this year).

He's a guy who might have some value as an 11th or 12 man, but since we all know how well Tito works those guys into games I wouldn't count on it.
   32. chris p Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:53 PM (#2119432)
bryan corey, eh? he can't be that bad ...
   33. SG Posted: July 31, 2006 at 01:54 PM (#2119433)
The Red Sox don't look bad for not giving something for the priviledge of paying Abreau 16m a year for 2 more years.
Abreu's not signed for two more years. His option did not have to be picked up for the trade to go through.
   34. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 02:06 PM (#2119444)
Abreu's not signed for two more years. His option did not have to be picked up for the trade to go through.


I'll believe it when I see it.
   35. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 31, 2006 at 02:50 PM (#2119491)
Rookie right-hander Manny Delcarmen is expected to be unavailable for a few days because of an irritation on his right thumb...
Thanks, 'God.
   36. Dave Cyprian Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:25 PM (#2119532)
MHS, its true that Abeu's option will not be picked up. The Phillies just paid him a $1.5 mil bonus to waive his no trade clause and to compensate him for the lost option.

The worst part of the whole Abreu trade for me is that now it will be a heck of lot less meaningful to root for Matsui and Sheffield to return slowly/badly. They just popped back to full strength, possibly the best trade Cashman's ever made.

Whether the Red Sox make a big trade today or on the waiver wire or whether they ride the Kyle Synder/Bryan Corey era into the sunset... they need to start beating some quality teams stat. The remaining schedule is kinda, uh, brutal.
   37. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:41 PM (#2119561)
MHS, its true that Abeu's option will not be picked up.
When the Yankees don't exercise that option text message me pls.
   38. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 31, 2006 at 03:48 PM (#2119577)
When the Yankees don't exercise that option text message me pls.

The trade has already been approved. The option has not been picked up. Therefore, the Yankees are under no obligation to pick it up.

They might pick it up, if Abreu returns to form next season, but they don't have to.
   39. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:06 PM (#2119606)
When the Yankees don't exercise that option text message me pls.
   40. SG Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:16 PM (#2119617)
MHS, let me explain this to you as clearly as I can.

1) Every single outlet that is reporting this transaction is confirming that the Yankees did not pick up the option on Abreu

2) This means that your initial statement that he was signed for the next two years was completely incorrrect. You can admit it, it's ok.

3) If the Yankees make the determination that Abreu's performance in '07 warrants picking up his '08 option, that means it's not a bad thing for them. It means they have an idea of what he would be worth to them in '08 and his option is in line with that.

But I'll text message you.
   41. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:19 PM (#2119621)
Like Larry said, the option still exists, but picking it up wasn't part of this deal. IOW, the Yanks have the "privelege" of paying Abreu $16M in 2007, but no obligation to do so again in 2008. That's one year, not two. I suppose you could assume the buyout and call it the privelege of paying him $18M in 2007. That would be a fair enough criticism. But do you seriously want a text message in December of 2007, or whenever it is that the option expires?
   42. Sean McNally Posted: July 31, 2006 at 04:30 PM (#2119640)
That would require RTFA SG... c'mon, that's not how he rolls.
   43. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 05:00 PM (#2119692)
Bafoons (specificly referin to Lar, and SG)- I understand what the word option is. I understand that it is possible that it won't be picked up. I'm of the opinion that there is a FAR greater chance that it will. My point still stands... when the Yankees don't pick up the option it will be bigger news than if they do.
   44. Fridas Boss Posted: July 31, 2006 at 05:18 PM (#2119727)
Baseball for ridiculous fanboy argument fans..awesome.
   45. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 31, 2006 at 06:42 PM (#2119846)
Bafoons

Get a brain, morans!
   46. The Original SJ Posted: July 31, 2006 at 06:53 PM (#2119871)
I think making fun of typos sets a dangerous precedent.

I don't really think this is the Yankees buying a title, this is a trade focused on next year, Bobby slides nicely into Sheffield's salary spot, and we don't have to pick up his option and root for him anymore.
   47. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:17 PM (#2119932)
Why does Abreu's contract even enter this discussion? They're the f*cking Yankees. Carrying expensive dead weight like Pavano and Wright obviously didn't stop them from pulling the trigger on a deal like this. So why on earth would paying Abreu top dollar, possibly even for the production to match, hamstring NY in 2008? It's an absolute heist for Cashman; I just don't see an argument otherwise that isn't embarassing.

CASHMAN: Good news, everyone. The Yankees have just loaded up for the pennant race! We've acquired a servicable starting pitcher and one of the better hitters in the game for a AAAA reliever and some marginal minor league "talent."

DETRACTOR: Ahaha, fool! You've just horribly handcuffed your team by committing to pay an excellent hitter $16 million for one, maybe two more years!

CASHMAN: I'm sorry, what?

DETRACTOR: SIX TEEN MEEEEEELION DOLLARS!!! You're doomed!

CASHMAN: Er, perhaps you've heard of my boss, George Steinbrenner? He excretes money naturally through the pores in his skin.

DETRACTOR: That may be, but at least my team isn't on the hook for that albatross option year!

CASHMAN: Your team doesn't have Bobby Abreu either.
   48. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:23 PM (#2119954)
Mattbert - I am not critisizing the Yankees for taking on the contract. I was orginally point out why the Sox wouldn't be ridiculed for not one uping the yankees.

Then in a completely unreleted series of posts some yankee fan boys started whining about how the Yankees didn't have the prevlidge of paying Abreau for 2 years, but only 1 and an option. With in the next 16 months the Yanks will pick up the option and my point will be made... what any of this has to do with the price of tea in china I'm not sure. However, I already was sure that Lar and SJ's were bags... so nothing new to report on that front.
   49. Fridas Boss Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:32 PM (#2119996)
MHS, I'm a Sox fan but you are hanging onto a wonderfully semantically irrelvant distinction here and snarkily so.
   50. The Original SJ Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:37 PM (#2120005)
However, I already was sure that Lar and SJ's were bags... so nothing new to report on that front.


I didn't say #### to you in this thread.
   51. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:49 PM (#2120032)
SJ - I apologize. I ment to refer to McNally. I guess that makes me the bag.
   52. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#2120036)
SJ - I apologize. I ment to refer to McNally. I guess that makes me the bag.
   53. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:53 PM (#2120039)
SJ - I apologize. I ment to refer to McNally. I guess that makes me the bag.
   54. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:53 PM (#2120040)
SJ - I apologize. I ment to refer to McNally. I guess that makes me the bag.
   55. Mister High Standards Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:54 PM (#2120042)
SJ - I apologize. I ment to refer to McNally. I guess that makes me the bag.
   56. Sean McNally Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:56 PM (#2120048)
With in the next 16 months the Yanks will pick up the option and my point will be made... what any of this has to do with the price of tea in china I'm not sure. However, I already was sure that Lar and SJ's were bags... so nothing new to report on that front.


Not only do we struggle to RTFA we now struggle to RTFT?

Also, Nostradamus, can you tell me what tomorrow's Lotto numbers are.
   57. Sean McNally Posted: July 31, 2006 at 07:58 PM (#2120055)
What was that MHS? I missed it.
   58. Mattbert Posted: July 31, 2006 at 08:19 PM (#2120113)
I was orginally point out why the Sox wouldn't be ridiculed for not one uping the yankees.
In doing so, you said Abreu is overpaid. I don't think that observation, even if true, is terribly relevant. Abreu's salary doesn't really mean squat to NY except as a bargaining chip in their favor, since it's the justification for not sending Philly a whole lot in return. The Yankees will absorb his contract easily, especially with Sheffield's deal nominally off the books at the end of this season. Moreover, Abreu's a damn fine player; he might actually earn that money, in contrast to some of the Yankees' recent marquee acquisitions.

Lastly, it's not just a formality that the Yankees aren't obligated to pick up Abreu's 2008 option. If he plays well, yes it will in all liklihood be picked up, but if he is brutally bad for some reason or suffers a catastrophic injury, the Yankees can cut bait and only be on the hook for $18M, which is a lot less than $32M. And if the Yankees decide Abreu's worth paying $16M for in 2008, isn't that good for them since that means he'll have performed in reasonable accordance with expectations? If Abreu plays well the next 2+ years, all the "value" metrics in the world won't make him overpaid to the Yankees. Maybe he'd be overpaid to some other team, but to the Yankees, he'll just be paid.

Insofar as being overpaid relates to the hypothetical situation of the Sox acquiring Abreu, I think the same argument would've applied, albeit to perhaps a slightly lesser degree given the disparity in resources between NY and Boston. The Sox could also absorb Abreu's contract easily, and I reckon most fans (yours truly included) would've been delighted if they'd made a deal similar to the one the Yankees made.
   59. Darren Posted: July 31, 2006 at 09:24 PM (#2120289)
Hey, Rauseo, you sound ridiculous. Your original post made it sound like getting Abreu was a bad idea because of the cost to the Red Sox being 2/30something beyond this year. You wrote this crap in direct response to my post saying that having Abreu NEXT YEAR ONLY would be a reasonably good outcome. But if one of those years is an option, then it's not an obligation and therefore is not any concern of the Red Sox.

Both deals the Yankees did made the Red Sox look foolish for letting them happen. Abreu would have been costly (2.5-3 mil/WARP3), but not as costly as losing the division to the Yanks this year.
   60. rr Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:25 AM (#2122981)
Lowell for Peavy,

What? I have never thought Peavy would have a long career, due to his motion and am not that surprised by his struggles in 2006. But Lowell for Peavy rumors sound like Boston-media provincial masturbation.

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