BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Coco Crisp: Alive?

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1. Phil Coorey. Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:56 AM (#2409054)

Looked like contact he was getting with the Indians.

Let's wait and see, if it continues...

2. Xander Posted: June 19, 2007 at 04:17 AM (#2409063)

I sure hope so. I would love for him to raise his value for an off-season trade.

3. Darren

Posted: June 19, 2007 at 04:38 AM (#2409078)

Or they could keep him and trade Ellsbury! Either way, you know, pool or a pond. Pond would probably good for our trade partner.

4. Xander Posted: June 19, 2007 at 05:12 AM (#2409094)

I'd trade him for filler if it meant not picking up any of the money.

5. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2007 at 05:44 AM (#2409106)

Coco doesn't make that much.

6. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2007 at 06:09 AM (#2409114)

I'm going to go with Rigor Mortis.

7. Xander Posted: June 19, 2007 at 06:13 AM (#2409116)

He doesn't make that much, but they have ~10 million invested in him over 08-09. I'd rather just have Ellsbury for the minimum and trade that away.

8. Darren

Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:18 AM (#2409171)

If Coco can hit even respectably, he becomes a reasonably valuable commodity. No reason to give him away.

9. walt williams bobblehead Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:53 AM (#2409179)

They're trying to win a pennant right now. The guy has finally learned to play centerfield and now it looks like he's hitting okay. I think they would be crazy to trade him or bench him.

10. Russ Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:57 AM (#2409182)

Actually a team like Pittsburgh could do well with someone like Crisp. Not too expensive, excellent fielder. Basically a reasonable stopgap before McCutchen... it's too bad the Pirates don't have anything that could realistically interest the Red Sox that DL could afford to give up.

11. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2007 at 11:55 AM (#2409191)

12. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: June 19, 2007 at 01:27 PM (#2409238)

First Drew, then Crisp, does Magadan move on to Lugo next? It would be nice to have those three hitting with Lowell and Youkilis cooling off. It will be fun to watch a team without multiple gaping holes in the lineup.

13. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2007 at 01:52 PM (#2409276)

I love Timmy but the sad fact is he just can't cut it anymore.

Totally agreed, although Tavarez has really pitched well of late, I'd give him another month of slack.

I'd DFA Timlin right now and call up Breslow to tell you the truth, and then send him back down once Donnelly is health. Oh, keep Manny D up here, please.

14. ekogan Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:00 PM (#2409362)

So what do they do when Ellsbury comes up next year and they have 2 centerfielders?

15. Xander Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:17 PM (#2409379)

They'll never DFA Timlin. That's totally out of the question. It's a joke, but it will never happen.

If Coco can hit even respectably

He hasn't hit even respectably for over a calendar year. I would hope for a hot streak and trade him.

16. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:17 PM (#2409380)

So what do they do when Ellsbury comes up next year and they have 2 centerfielders?

17. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:19 PM (#2409382)

Heck, what do they do with Wily Mo? I really think Wily Mo will be an amazing hitter someday, but it doesn't look like that day will come on this team. The part-time role seems to hurt his talents, and he doesn't really play great defense. Unfortunately, he probably wouldn't bring much in trade. Some other team will probably get him for peanuts and he'll turn into a great hitter for them. He's still only 25.

Manny/Drew/Ellsbury/Wily Mo/Coco?

Somebody will get hurt.

They'll never DFA Timlin. That's totally out of the question. It's a joke, but it will never happen.

I'd love to hear why.

18. Xander Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:23 PM (#2409383)

They wouldn't DFA him because he's their little pet and they would never want to cause him that embarrassment. The only thing I could see them doing is asking him to retire so he can leave with some dignity. But that's even a stretch.

19. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:31 PM (#2409393)

I'd love to see Wily Mo get a full-time chance as someone's DH. But I'm nonetheless content for the Red Sox to hold onto him as injury insurance-- they wouldn't get much in trade for him anyway.

Coco was a pretty good hitter for two years and then got hurt and has been bad for about a year. He has become a good centerfielder. It would be myopic to drop him for peanuts now.

Sadly, I do agree with Temple about Timlin. I think the Sox might have dropped him by now if not for what he's done for the team already and perhaps his leadership role (he seems to take that publicly, at least-- no idea whether it has any bearing in the clubhouse/bullpen). I also think, following Edes, that his quest for 1,000 career appearances may make him less inclined to retire, which is annoying. But at least Francona is not using him in high-leverage situations.

20. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:35 PM (#2409396)

By the way, I don't mean to imply that I'm confident Coco will become a good hitter again. But I don't think it's entirely out of the question. And just jettisoning him when he has little value seems misguided.

According to the ZR stat over at THT, Coco has been the fourth-best CF in baseball this year, behind Jones, Granderson and Dejesus.

21. AROM Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:43 PM (#2409403)

I really think Wily Mo will be an amazing hitter someday

I was going to question whether Wily Mo would hit his decline phase before he ever got regular playing time, and turned into a what might have been, but amazingly he's still only 25. Him being traded for Drew Henson seems like a lifetime ago.

22. plim Posted: June 19, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2409686)

I was going to question whether Wily Mo would hit his decline phase before he ever got regular playing time, and turned into a what might have been, but amazingly he's still only 25. Him being traded for Drew Henson seems like a lifetime ago.

just make sure he doesn't sit next to eric hinske on the bench for too many games...

23. Dread Pirate Dave Roberts Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:04 PM (#2409794)

How's this one? Bring Lester up and slot him in the 5-hole, put Tavarez back in the pen as a mop-up guy and DFA Timlin.

Unfortunately, there may be a spot for Lester without Tavarez going to the pen. Link -- Schlling's having an MRI on his pitching shoulder.

24. Chip Posted: June 19, 2007 at 11:11 PM (#2409898)

The El Duque approach to workload management.

25. Darren

Posted: June 30, 2007 at 02:39 AM (#2423597)

Great, now Coco has apparently hurt his hand again. I guess that means another 14 months of lousy hitting.

26. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 30, 2007 at 03:07 AM (#2423616)

FRAK

27. Darren

Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:34 AM (#2430645)

I guess Coco's hand is feeling fine. After his HR, 2B, and BB tonight (and I think he mailed in the last few ABs), he's at .265 .320 .389--a .709 OPS. According to BPro, he was at 2.9 WARP coming in, largely based on him being a super-great defender. Coco is continuing on his way to being an actual valuable player. Seems unpossible but it's true.

28. jordan Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:21 AM (#2430691)

Darren, I don't understand why anyone is surprised at the turn around. I would have been shocked if he didn't turn it around since he put up an OPS of around .700 last year playing with a broken finger all year. It never healed last year. To me, it would have been shocking if a guy can't put up an OPS of at least .750 with a healed finger after putting up an OPS of .700 with a broken finger.

29. Darren

Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:35 AM (#2430697)

I don't know how closely you followed Coco this year, but for 2+ months he looked nothing like a major league hitter. That's why it would "seem unpossible" as I said above. A year and a half of cruddiness will make you start to question what seems like a statistical probability.

Statistically, his return to goodness was to be expected, but that's assuming that his hand had gotten better (which we didn't know), that his nagging shoulder injury healed (which we didn't know), etc. etc. etc.

30. jordan Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:44 AM (#2430701)

I did follow him for the first 2+ months. I agree that he was not driving the ball well. However, I was never worried about him because his strikeout rate was still reasonable and this told me that his bat speed was still okay. Also, his decent walk rate the first two months told me that his approach at the plate was still the same.

I figured he was having trouble adjusting after last year. He must have had to change his grip last year because of the finger and it may not have been easy for him this year to remember how he swung before the broken finger.

The strikeout rate and the walke rate are also why I am not worried about Lugo. He'll come back just like Coco came back.

31. Darren

Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:56 AM (#2430704)

Well, you certainly do seem sure that Coco's going to recover... now that he's already recovered. :)

Like I said, there were very logical reasons to believe Coco would recover just fine (see the "No Worries About Coco Thread"). But I also don't blame people for thinking that he might not be the same player anymore.

Will Lugo come back? He's another guy who has had a year of horrible hitting now. I think he's likely to return to decency, but his performance this past year lowers my expectations for him going forward.

32. jordan Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:20 AM (#2430710)

Although I can't prove it to you, since I didn't post here about the topic. I have been telling my friends for over 2 months that Coco would be just fine. All of them said I was crazy.

33. Darren

Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:32 AM (#2430715)

You should have come here instead--nobody would have called you crazy. (Wok might have called you a racist or something else weird, though.)

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