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Sox Therapy — Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox Tuesday, October 09, 2018Damage DoneBring on the Astros!!! Good lord I’m not going to sleep tonight. That game certainly was the opposite of what I expected, the bullpen was brilliant except for Craig Kimbrel but he was good enough…just. Some quick notes as the strains of New York, New York keeps pounding in the Sox clubhouse. - Alex Cora 1, Us Idiots on the Internet 0 - Ian Kinsler and Eduardo Nunez both had solid games and Nunez made a heck of a play to end it. Full credit to Steve Pearce for a terrific stretch on that final play. I still think Holt should have been in for Nunez defensively but it worked. My one criticism was I would have used Swihart to hit for Vazquez in the 8th and let Leon call the final two innings. - That was Derek Lowe-esque from Rick Porcello. I can’t have been the only person thinking of Lowe as Slick Rick did his thing. As a friend of mine texted me, Porcello was truly “pitching” in this game. He had command of all of his pitches and mixed them beautifully and having said I wanted Leon in the last couple of innings Vazquez deserves credit for his handling of Porcello. - Speaking of Vazquez who expected the homer? I think we can say that was a fairly important run. - The way it felt after game two the way this team bounced back was awfully nice. A manager is judged in my opinion largely on how he handles adversity, the Sox haven’t had much adversity this year but I think he deserves credit for the bounce back. - We can worry about the Astros Saturday sometime, for now, let’s just enjoy this. 108 wins, now 3 more, as Spinal Tap might’ve said, this team goes to 111! And hey Aaron… Start spreading the news Jose is an Absurd Kahuna
Posted: October 09, 2018 at 11:48 PM | 46 comment(s)
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1. villageidiom Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:22 AM (#5763903)Sale, Porcello, Eovaldi: 19.0 IP, 1.89 ERA
Others: 17.0 IP, 5.29 ERA
Tanaka, Severino, Happ: 10.0 IP, 10.80 ERA
Others: 25.0 IP, 5.40 ERA
There's a convenient grouping of pitchers there, as I've lumped in David Price with "others" for Boston. But that's the thing. Boston relied heavily on only three pitchers the Yankees didn't do damage against. The Yankees have a wicked offense, crazy good, but regardless of how their starters performed or how much was asked of their bullpen or the timing of Boone's pitcher deployment timing decisions their offense just didn't get it done. I thought Boone was below average but not much so, and I don't think he was the difference in this series. Boston's bullpen was its weak point coming into this series, but the Yankees can't face the bullpen if they can't get past the starters.
In the offseason the Yankees need some starting pitching, certainly. But their hitters need to hit good pitching. Whether they can do that with the personnel they have, I don't know. I mean, I think so? But a wait-and-see approach isn't the kind of thing that would give me confidence.
OK, back to the victory lap. Woooooo!
I know I'm being overly simplistic across a couple threads here (the Stanton one being the other one), but they were dead average in the AL in BA, and 5th in OBP. They can be pitched to.
(Obviously the slugging is real and it matters, I'm not that simple!)
Yeah. Hus control sucked but he didn't give them anything they could hit out of the park.
They won't resign him, will they? He isn't worth it.
I like Eovaldi as a closer. Throws 100, doesn't walk too may guys, why not?
I also liked Joe Kelly as a closer, if he can find the strike zone again he'd be an option. He can be straightened out.
With a few hours of sleep and some time to think about it, he was a tick outside the zone on a number of pitches and, to your point, the contact wasn't that worrisome (sure, Sanchez just missed, but just missing in baseball is pretty much the norm for hitters). I'm not disputing the overall fact that he was a ####### nightmare last night, but in some ways it was a perfect storm of patient hitters, the one HBP, and barely missing off the corners a few times.
Because I like him as a starter. He'll get overrated with a couple more big starts in the post-season but he's a perfectly solid starting pitcher. I had forgotten that he was part of the Marlins' return for Hanley.
I kept thinking if this was a random game in July against Tampa, a number of those balls would have been emphatically rung up as strikes, and some other percentage would have been swings and misses with a less patient lineup. He was really just missing.
I mean you're right overall, he didn't have it. I guess I'm just somewhere between "disaster" and "fine." There's a version of that inning in which Didi's hit doesn't get through, Walker gets out of the way, and he just puts 1 or 2 guys on and doesn't let in any runs.
There's of course also a version in which the Yankees score 4 without making a single out, but let's not focus on that!
Good Lord, I hope not. I ####### hate watching him pitch*, from the stupid bird man pose to the all-too-frequent occasions where he and the strike zone have only a passing familiarity.
I'm just grateful that Sanchez swung at that first pitch that missed the zone by three inches. That was terrible hitting.
* And surely it has has to be the case where the only time I get to see him is when he's not on his game.
Ditto. Also the pose, and frankly all big name closer behavior, is embarrassing.
Next to a World Series win, is there anything better than the Sox celebrating on the field at Yankee Stadium in front of their fans and defiling the visitors clubhouse with their celebratory champagne? Even better because the Sox let them get thisclose before crushing the hopes and dreams of Yankees fans for another year.
You are complaining about Kimbrel, and you suggest Joe ####### Kelly as his replacement? So the Sox can save some money? Let's take a look at Kelly's best year (last year) vs Kimbrel's year this year:
Kimbrel = 2.74 ERA 63G 62.1IP 31H 19R 19ER 7HR 31BB 91K 2HBP 7WP 160ERA+ 3.13FIP 0.995WHIP
Kelly = 2.79 ERA 54G 58.0IP 42H 19R 18ER 3HR 27BB 52K 1HBP 4WP 164ERA+ 3.49FIP 1.190WHIP
Keep in mind that outside of 13 Kelly had by far his best year last year (he regressed to a 100 ERA+ this year), he's a FA, and he's the same age as Kimbrel, what sort of contract do you think would be worth the savings from what Kimbrel will probably be paid? Because if you say anything less than Kelly actually paying the Sox, there is no way I'd be comfortable with the Sox going into the season with Kelly as their 'closer'.
I feel bad for Yankees fans. Y'all remember that season Boston excelled at loading the bases but habitually squandered each inning with no runs scored? I'm sure that's what a 100-win season and an ALDS exit feels like, on a grander scale. I don't like that feeling, and I don't wish it on anyone. The Yankees were fortunate to get such a great record despite the injuries and some notable underperformances. They just picked the wrong year in which to do it. That happens.
That's exactly what I've been saying for the past three months: The Yankees starters go way too deep into pitch counts, get gassed by the 5th or 6th inning, and put way too much burden on their bullpen; and too many of their key hitters content themselves with playing the home run lottery, and are helpless against good pitchers who can command the color charts. Tyler Kepner put it very well this morning:
Against the Red Sox, the Yankees Simply Don’t Measure Up
I can understand the sentiment, but would Red Sox fans really consider this to be a great season if they don't win the World Series, or even get to play in it? I could see that if they'd been a wild card team that'd just pulled an upset to make it to the LCS, but for Christ's sake, this is a team that set a franchise winning record and will have the HFA all the way through.** This is 2018, not 1967 or 1975 or 1986, where winning the World Series would've been an upset of major historical proportions.
**Even if that HFA might not mean much against Houston.
None of us have ever seen a 100-win team. We saw that (and then some) and beat the Yankees (hell, got out of the first round after two straight listless exits). It's been a great season already.
This. It's probably tough for you to understand since it's been so long since your Orioles won a World Series title but as Sox fans we have seen World Series titles in recent years. I desperately hope to see another one this year but if I don't, it's not the end of the world. This year I got to see something that literally has not happened in my lifetime (and barely happened in my parents' lifetime). In fact good fortune allowed me to be in the ballpark for win #100 and for win #106 (team record). That's a great season.
You're a better fan than me, vi. In my 40+ years of baseball fandom -- primarily of the Sox and Astros, the only real sadness it has ever given me was at the hands of New York and primarily the Yankees.... from Dent to the 1986 NLCS Game 6 to Buckner to Wakefield. I'd probably learn some disturbing things about myself if I ever sat down on a shrink's couch to talk about it.
As for the greatness (or not) of this season, depending on the outcome..... I've played enough Strat to know that when you get good teams together, sometimes you roll on your cards and sometimes you roll on your opponent's cards. I consciously avoided following MLB much for the first half of the year because -- as great as the Sox were -- the Yankees were matching them. I could only warm up to the team and start following again once they separated themselves. Now that they've reached the LCS, I'm OK as long as they don't lose in some idiotic fashion. It's not like any of the teams left are the 88 Dodgers or anything.
And to what Jose said, if the Sox lose in the LCS or World Series, I can still pop and or all of my 2004, 2007, or 2013 DVD's in and reminisce on some great years. Heck, I still tear up any time I see video of Renteria tapping back to Foulke.
I'd much rather lose in the ALCS than in the World Series. I don't know if I'm weird on that point or not.
(EDIT: This is post 04 thinking. 03 was pretty ####### terrible.)
Well, I guess I should be grateful that I don't live in a lily white cul-de-sac, or you'd also feel obligated to add that to every comment.
but as Sox fans we have seen World Series titles in recent years. I desperately hope to see another one this year but if I don't, it's not the end of the world. This year I got to see something that literally has not happened in my lifetime (and barely happened in my parents' lifetime). In fact good fortune allowed me to be in the ballpark for win #100 and for win #106 (team record). That's a great season.
No problem with that perspective. And if it were an Orioles wild card team that'd advanced to the LCS I'd probably just feel the same way.
I'd much rather lose in the ALCS than in the World Series. I don't know if I'm weird on that point or not.
Wouldn't it depend on how your team lost? As a Yankees fan, I'm not sure I prefer having lost that 2004 ALCS to having lost to the Cardinals in the World Series.
I just snuck in an edit. But sure, that's fair.
Why is that? I don't know if you're weird on that point but I'm not sure WHY that would be better. Winning the pennant would be a great achievement, especially to beat two teams with 100 wins to get there. I assume it's been done in the Wild Card era before but I can't imagine that's a long list.
I don't really think of pennants or conference championships as things worth celebrating too much, I guess? And again, this is fully from the perspective of a modern New England sports fan and nothing else. I'm sure I didn't feel this way prior to 04. We've been spoiled.
I can't really fully justify this, I'm just saying my years of Patriots/Celtics/Red Sox fandom have led me to this point. Losing sucks, but losing the final, ultimate thing, sucks the most.
The Yankees did it in 2001. I can't think of any others off hand.
The '98 Padres beat two 100-win teams to win the pennant.
This is what I was trying to get at with #26. If I'd been a Padres fan in 1998, I'd have been absolutely thrilled to have beaten the Astros and the Braves, and wouldn't have considered it a great tragedy to have lost in the World Series to the greatest single season team in history. That Padres team was Classic Cinderella, not that it wasn't a very good team (98 wins), but that its franchise history just had "Fire Hydrant of the Underdog" written all over it.
OTOH while the 2001 Yankees beat what were arguably two even better teams to get to the World Series, and while they were going to be facing the equivalent of both Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson in 5 games of the World Series, it didn't seem like the same thing as the '98 Padres, because while the A's and the Mariners were undoubtedly "better" teams than the Yankees that year, recent history (1999-2000) suggested that the Yankees' true colors didn't get revealed until the postseason, and the A's and the Mariners were still, underneath those gaudy regular season win totals----just the A's and the Mariners, with no postseason track records to scare anyone with.
And while I honestly felt that the Yankees were extremely lucky even to extend Koufax and Gibson to 7 games, that 7th game pretty much put a kibosh in that entire season AFAIWC. Just three outs from matching the Joe McCarthy streak, and then one more year to match Casey Stengel's.....well, I guess if you're not a Yankees fan with a sense of history it might be hard to convey the message, but let's just say that it stung a lot more than it has this year.
To me getting into the playoffs is pretty much the same as getting to the ALCS. Getting to the WS is another step, winning obviously a much larger one.
See, that's a perspective that makes perfect sense in all its details from beginning to end. IMO the specific context of each series always matters.
You can make a case for a tiny handful of other teams like the '70 Orioles, the '75/'76 Reds or the '86 Mets, or if you want to completely discount the inferior quality of the competition, the '06 Cubs, the '29/'30 A's, or the '27 or '39 Yankees. But when you take all factors into account---the win total, the offense / defense balance, the roster depth, and the 11-2 postseason record, I'd still stand by my call.
I'm still shocked it wasn't the 106-win Braves or 102-win+Big Unit-at-deadline Astros repping the NL
I doubt if it would've made much difference. The 1999 Braves were better on paper than the 1999 Yankees, but look what happened in that World Series.
I don't care if they get swept in the WS by the Brewers with all the runs scored by Travis Shaw hits and walks given by Kimbrel and Kelly. I'd still prefer that to losing in the ALCS.
If they win the WS it's better than if they just win the pennant, which is better than not making it past the ALCS, which is better than getting knocked out in the ALDS, which is better than losing the WC game, which is better than not qualifying for the postseason tournament. I am a Red Sox fan, and as long as they are winning I find that more Red Sox games is better than fewer Red Sox games. I don't understand the notion of Sox fans preferring the Sox lose early than their losing later.
It is much easier to appreciate "the other people" when you live among them than it is when you live sheltered from them. When I was young and in Boston and not having internet access, it was easy to hate the Yankees and their fans. I'm older and in Hartford, and I have many friends IRL and on this site who are Yankees fans. They are people, just with different laundry. They have the same biases and impulses and habits; they just point them in a different direction. I only wish a Yankees fan misery in the sense that their team must fail as a function of my team's success. I'd prefer if they shrug it off and move on rather than get caught up in it.
Except the ########. They can wallow for months or years.
Here's another try at explaining this (to myself as much as you guys!): I hate losing. The stakes of the loss dictate how much it affects me: a spring training loss on one end of the spectrum, World Series loss on the other. The joy of getting to the World Series is thus completely cancelled out, and then some, by the pain of the loss in the World Series.* At least that's how it works in other sports- I was only 6 in 1986 so I can't say for sure.
*This formula is complicated to some extent by the presence or lack thereof of the Yankees.
Again this is a dumb thing, I don't like it. The end of the game last night brought relief more than joy.
I grew up a Sox fan in suburban New York in the 1970s. I found hating the Yankees spectacularly easy, and nothing in the subsequent 30 years has disabused me of that feeling.
Since that's one letter too many for "Yankees", maybe you should re-post that using the NannyBuster.
There are a lot of places in what is squarely in "Red Sox Country" where there are lot of fans of The Enemy. In some cities/towns (e.g. any place with a decent-sized college) it's because there are transplanted Tri-Staters galore. In others it's because there's a sizable population with an ethnicity (in my experience, Italian-American or Puerto Rican) where more people are given over to Yankees fandom even absent a specific link to Greater Gotham.
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