BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Elias Rankings of Sox Players

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1. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:03 AM (#2602058)

According to those rankings, Lowell is in line for $31mil per year after finishing just ahead of A-rod.

2. Fat Al Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:12 AM (#2602070)

Hell, Cano and Jeter above Rodriguez also. Is that based on some positional adjustment?

3. Darren

Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:15 AM (#2602073)

Yeah, some of these are downright wacky. But remember, these are generally aimed at separating the A players from the B players. And when you look at that, they're pretty good.

Not sure, but does this ranking come into play when a team signs two FAs? IOW, would a team signing ARod and Lowell have to give the Red Sox their first round pick and the Yanks their 2nd?

4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:19 AM (#2602075)

Type B: Gagne

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. Fat Al Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:20 AM (#2602078)

Not sure, but does this ranking come into play when a team signs two FAs? IOW, would a team signing ARod and Lowell have to give the Red Sox their first round pick and the Yanks their 2nd?

I'm pretty sure that's right.

6. Darren

Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2602082)

Well, that's just loopy then. Freaking ridiculously loopy.

7. villageidiom Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:28 AM (#2602092)

Not sure, but does this ranking come into play when a team signs two FAs? IOW, would a team signing ARod and Lowell have to give the Red Sox their first round pick and the Yanks their 2nd?

Yes. I think a few years ago Boston got screwed out of a higher pick because the team signing one of their players went out and signed someone higher on the list. (I recall the signing team was the Dodgers, but I don't know if it was Lowe in 2004 or Mueller in 2005.)

8. Darren

Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:32 AM (#2602097)

It was Mueller, VI. The Red Sox got a 3rd rounder for him (turned into Aaron Bates), when it looked like the Twins might sign him in and give the Sox the #20 pick. For Lowe, they got Hansen (#26).

9. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:33 AM (#2602100)

Furcal, I believe, was the other player signed that dropped the Sox pick down.

10. Xander Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:37 AM (#2602106)

How do we not go after Freddy Garcia with an incentive laden deal?

How about a 1 year/ 4 million dollar deal with a 10 million dollar option for 2009 and a 2 million dollar buyout.

He's supposed to be back from his surgery by the ASB.

11. Darren

Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:40 AM (#2602108)

Always liked Garcia. He's really valuable if healthy.

12. bibigon Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:47 AM (#2602110)

I assume if we offer Schilling arb, he just accepts, right?

13. philly Posted: November 01, 2007 at 03:06 AM (#2602121)

I assume if we offer Schilling arb, he just accepts, right?

That certainly fits his public comments.

14. Valentine Posted: November 01, 2007 at 01:59 PM (#2602369)

The rankings are crazy... Carlos Silva and Kyle Lohse are two of the better starting pitchers on the market (non-geriatric division), yet neither is even "Type B". While I realize the % have changed, that was the same level assigned to Tony Graffanino a couple years back.

I would be surprised if Schilling accepts arbitration, since he'll get a $15M-$20M deal from somebody, but I think the Sox will offer it. Arbitration awards are generally pretty reasonable.

15. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:00 PM (#2602371)

Type B: Gagne

That is a blessing in disguise. Because teams won't lose an 1st round pick to sign him, which means other teams will be MORE WILLING to sign him.

Thank the F!@#ing Gods.

16. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:17 PM (#2602410)

Agree with IronChef here. No chance Gagne's back with the Sox in 2008 now.

I went to the parade in Boston on Tuesday. Gagne was practically hiding out in the DCUK as it went by. He was sitting down while surrounded by his teammates standing up. Smart to keep his head down, I think.

Worst trade acquisition by the Sox...ever? Until Sunday night I would have said yes, but after winning the World Series I would think the damage he caused wasn't enough to stop the WS train.

17. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 01, 2007 at 02:21 PM (#2602419)

How about a 1 year/ 4 million dollar deal with a 10 million dollar option for 2009 and a 2 million dollar buyout.

Joel Pineiro just got 2y/13m. If Garcia is healthy enough to help the Sox, he's going to get more than that. The Cardinals signed Mulder to a 2y/13m dollar deal last year and they knew he'd be out for most of the year.

18. esturminator_CT Posted: November 01, 2007 at 04:02 PM (#2602594)

Joel Pineiro just got 2y/13m.

Seeing what the Cardinals were willing to pay Pineiro to stay in St. Louis makes me feel cheated on getting a marginal 5th outfielder in return for their taking his contract off the Sox' hands.

19. esturminator_CT Posted: November 01, 2007 at 04:07 PM (#2602603)

Why is Freddy Garcia a better bet than Curt Schilling? Just because he's ten years younger? If you compare numbers, the only time in the past 4 years (age 28-31 vs. 38-41) that he's had a better season than #38 is 2005. The other 3 years Schilling was superior.

In fact you can take that back 7 seasons to 2001, Schill has outperformed Garcia every season except 2005 when he was returning from the ankle surgery.

20. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: November 01, 2007 at 04:47 PM (#2602674)

Gagne was practically hiding out in the DCUK as it went by. He was sitting down while surrounded by his teammates standing up. Smart to keep his head down, I think.

Where I was standing, a couple of guys yelled "Hey Gagne, try not to blow the parade!" It was meant in good fun, and I was amused.

21. Xander Posted: November 01, 2007 at 08:45 PM (#2602717)

Why is Freddy Garcia a better bet than Curt Schilling? Just because he's ten years younger? If you compare numbers, the only time in the past 4 years (age 28-31 vs. 38-41) that he's had a better season than #38 is 2005. The other 3 years Schilling was superior.

Why are you making this comparison? Garcia is basically a flier who might be able to help us after the all-star break. A comparison between him and Schilling is a false choice.

22. Xander Posted: November 01, 2007 at 08:47 PM (#2602719)

Joel Pineiro just got 2y/13m. If Garcia is healthy enough to help the Sox, he's going to get more than that. The Cardinals signed Mulder to a 2y/13m dollar deal last year and they knew he'd be out for most of the year.

Engel Beltre disagrees.

23. Dizzypaco Posted: November 01, 2007 at 08:58 PM (#2602736)

The Red Sox have five starting pitchers for next year without Schilling - Beckett/Matsuzaka/Lester/Wakefield/Bucholz. They could use another starter or two in case of injuries or Wakefield gets old fast or something, but there's no reason to spend lots of money on someone like Schilling. I'd rather they use it to overpay Lowell.

24. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: November 01, 2007 at 09:06 PM (#2602749)

Worst trade acquisition by the Sox...ever?

I still say "Larry Andersen."

25. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: November 01, 2007 at 09:10 PM (#2602757)

Damn you, #24, I was just getting set to post "Larry Andersen says hi."

26. chris p Posted: November 01, 2007 at 09:18 PM (#2602773)

i think the question was whether the player the red sox got was bad, not whether they gave up much for him--that's why it says "acquisition" rather than "trade"

27. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: November 01, 2007 at 09:20 PM (#2602778)

Sorry there, MH1F, but it does raise the question of whether or not the Sox have made the all-time worst deadline deals, both in the damage caused by whom they traded for and the opportunity cost of whom they traded away.

28. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 01, 2007 at 09:43 PM (#2602803)

And yet ALL of us were full of praise for dumping stiffler and getting Gagne at the deadline last year....

29. Digit Posted: November 02, 2007 at 01:17 AM (#2602977)

The answer for worst acquisition ever for the Red Sox is blindingly obvious:

No No Nanette.

30. Valentine Posted: November 02, 2007 at 01:36 PM (#2603263)

Worst trade acquisition by the Sox? If you don't consider the value of the players given up?

Jermaine Van Buren was pretty awful. Blaine Neal and Mike Remlinger in 2005. Cesar Crespo and Terry Adams in 2004. There are plenty of forgettable deals -- Gagne was a disappointment because we had higher expectations and gave up more talent.

Still not as bad as trading Lowe and Varitek for Heathcliff Slocumb. :-)

31. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 02, 2007 at 01:39 PM (#2603266)

The answer for worst acquisition ever for the Red Sox is blindingly obvious:

No No Nanette.

Ugh. This is a lie, spread first by rabid anti-Semites, picked up by Dan Shaughnessy who was too stupid or craven to recognize anti-Semitism when he saw it.

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