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   1. jimmybob Posted: June 30, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2424058)
Well if Coco's thumb was really bad wouldn't they have just put him on the DL instead of Piniero?
   2. Darren Posted: June 30, 2007 at 08:41 PM (#2424062)
That's not their style. Coco will sit a couple days and then come back and play hurt the rest of the season. Naturally, he'll suck.
   3. PJ Martinez Posted: June 30, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2424082)
Huh. Trying to see what they have before the trading deadline?
   4. PJ Martinez Posted: June 30, 2007 at 08:55 PM (#2424095)
And just to clarify, I mean that perhaps they're considering a trade of Wily Mo or, less likely, Coco.

If anything, this makes it seem less likely that they're seriously considering a deal including Ellsbury-- otherwise, why risk a few poor games in MLB denting his trade value (however slightly)?
   5. Darren Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:01 PM (#2424105)
I think it points to Wily Mo being gone soon. If he can't fill in for Coco, he's not much in the way of injury insurance for this team.
   6. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:04 PM (#2424120)
Holy crap. Cool. I agree with PJM that this more than likely means that - as was reported - Ellsbury ain't going nowhere. Yeah, definitely excited about this.

It is weird that Coco didn't get DL'ed. It seems strange to call up a legit top prospect for less than good couple weeks of play, but if that were the case, why not DL Coco now?
   7. chris p Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:15 PM (#2424136)
darren, i think wily mo backs up left, right, and dh right now. the problem is, hinske can back up left, right, 1b, and dh .. although he can't hit as well as wily mo.
   8. PJ Martinez Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:16 PM (#2424138)
Could the All-Star Break have something to do with that? Keeping their options open or something? I don't quite get it either.
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:21 PM (#2424145)
Rules question:

It's been fewer than 10 days since Dave Murphy was optioned to Pawtucket. I know that he can only be recalled within the first ten days after being sent down if a player is DL'ed. Does that DL'ed player have be at the same position? I couldn't remember, and a quick internet perusal didn't answer the question. This seems relevant, in that calling up Ellsbury is a more meaningful move if they had a choice between him and Murphy.
   10. chris p Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:31 PM (#2424157)
mca, i know that the francisco rodriguez post-season roster rule differentiates between pitchers and hitters, so i'd imagine this rule does the same.
   11. chris p Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:34 PM (#2424161)
once a prospect gets to pawtucket, he's on the shuttle. he has to be ready to fill in for a short period if needed. i think it was established when ellsbury was promoted to pawtucket that the front office has confidence he can fill in. as far as the difference in meaning between whether it's dave murphy or ellsbury, that's obvious, too: when murphy was promoted it was because drew was injured and htis time it's coco. i don't think there's much more to it than that.
   12. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2424195)
once a prospect gets to pawtucket, he's on the shuttle.
I dunno. Papelbon was up for good once he got the call. Lester was, too, except he got cancer. Even Pedroia was up for good. Yes, Youks was the king of the shuttle, but I don't think he's the best comp for Ellsbury, who is younger and much more highly regarded.
   13. chris p Posted: June 30, 2007 at 10:03 PM (#2424245)
yeah well ... papelbon could have been on the shuttle, but he was needed in the bullpen, and quickly showed that he was the best option out there (and the only guy on the team with a real fastball ... remember when he threw the first pitch and we were all like 'ah that's what a fastball looks like i remember now'?) lester was needed in the rotation until he went on the DL. pedroia might have either gone on the shuttle or been called up for good earlier if he didn't start off so slow. by the time he was called up, there was no reason for a shuttle. and ellsbury ... really looks to me like htis is temporary unless coco is seriously hurt.
   14. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 30, 2007 at 10:30 PM (#2424304)
Yeah, each of those situations has its own logic. I think the consistency in the treatment of those prospects in the last two years still means something, abstracted from the individual logics, but we'll see.

Combined MLE for Ellsbury: 292/357/387
   15. tfbg9 Posted: June 30, 2007 at 10:42 PM (#2424335)
Tonight is a total must game.
   16. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: June 30, 2007 at 10:50 PM (#2424344)
Combined MLE for Ellsbury: 292/357/387

I'd take it.

Tonight is a total must game.

Uh, no it's not. Not even close.
   17. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 01, 2007 at 12:04 AM (#2424512)
Brandon Moss?
   18. Darren Posted: July 02, 2007 at 01:48 AM (#2426021)
Has Ellsbury hit the ball out of the infield? I'm a bit concerned that in AAA they Donnie-Sadlered him.
   19. Dan Posted: July 02, 2007 at 02:10 AM (#2426048)
He smoked one to RF right at the RFer today, didn't he?
   20. tfbg9 Posted: July 02, 2007 at 03:22 AM (#2426099)
Tonight is a total must game.

Uh, no it's not. Not even close.


I meant to see Ellsbury play, a must game to watch.
   21. tfbg9 Posted: July 02, 2007 at 03:24 AM (#2426102)
Donnie-Sadlered him


Meaning they just told him to slap down at the ball, and try to get legs-hits? Or what?
   22. Darren Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:16 AM (#2430628)
Chip says NESN says Ellsbury was optioned back to Pawtucket tonight. His line in the Majors: .375 .444 .438.

I hope that Breslow is taking his place at least.
   23. Chip Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:19 AM (#2430688)
They said later on the postgame that the corresponding move will be made on Friday, and Caron was under the assumption that it would be a pitcher addition.
   24. Darren Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:36 AM (#2430698)
It's got to be Breslow! Breslow! Breslow! Breslow!
   25. Darren Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:38 AM (#2430699)
Actually, promoting Breslow could make for an interesting competition between him and Lopez for the second lefty position. Lopez has been pretty mediocre overall and not great against lefties. If Breslow can be good against lefties, he'd win over Francona, who loves a loogy, pretty quickly.
   26. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:29 AM (#2430714)
Breslow should win Piniero's job, not the job of Lopez.
   27. PJ Martinez Posted: July 06, 2007 at 01:56 PM (#2430837)
"I'm a bit concerned that in AAA they Donnie-Sadlered him."

According to Gordon Edes, the Sox "would like to see Ellsbury elevate the ball more consistently, the way he did in Portland and Pawtucket." Which is the exact opposite of that, no? I guess I don't actually know what Donnie-Sadler means, as a verb.
   28. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:03 PM (#2430844)
I assume that it means over-promoting. The Red Sox skipped Sadler up from the midwest league, where he had a good-not-great season, straight to AA. He never hit the ball with any authority again. I think there's reason to think that Sadler was overmatched, and never able to adjust. Maybe he just lacked the ability or the physical attributes, but maybe if he hadn't been rushed, he could have figured it out in steps along the way. The Red Sox' treatment of Jacoby Ellsbury looks nothing to me like Sadlering - he hasn't skipped a level since jumping to high-A a year and a half ago, and he sure didn't look lost at the plate in the majors.

So, chris p was right on this one - the Sox really were shuttling Ellsbury. I remain concerned that the shuttle is a dangerous thing, as there's always a real chance that the shuttled player will suck in his 25 PA, but I guess I ought ot trust the Sox that they think Ellsbury could handle that.
   29. PJ Martinez Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:45 PM (#2430901)
Via SoSH:

"McAdam on WEEI says 1B Bailey is the call-up for the weekend."

So, Crisp is healthy-- and Youkilis is not. I assume that's what this means.

As for Ellsbury, someone else on SoSH noted that he reached base in 8 of his 18 PAs and didn't strike out once. Pretty solid for a first crack at the majors.
   30. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:27 PM (#2431045)
1B Bailey? I don't even know who that is.
   31. Josh Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:15 PM (#2431114)
Bailey is a RH hitting converted C (who couldn't throw to 2d anymore) who plays 1B and a little LF. He is supposed to be a nice guy who Terry praised each of the past two spring trainings, and who resigned as a 6 yr minor league FA this past year despite likely offers from worse teams. A 250/350/450 kind of guy for AAA who I'm sure has horrible MLEs, but who may be so pumped that the gets a hit or two in the few games he'll see action in before the break. A long time minor league player, this is a nice break for him.
   32. chris p Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:23 PM (#2431127)
so is bailey up for good or just on the shuttle? or did he sneak on the shuttle when theo wasn't looking?
   33. Chip Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:32 PM (#2431138)
I think Theo just wanted to dance on the grave of The Curse one more time by adding a reserve named Bailey in a year when the Sox have a huge lead in the standings. If Jeff Bailey's nickname is "Beetle," it would complete the circle.

Countdown until CHB mentions this in a column starts now ...
   34. jordan Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:32 PM (#2431139)
This is probably just for the weekend. Youkilis' quad has been bothering him for a couple weeks. The organization probably felt that it was best for Youkilis to get 8 days of rest in a row rather than hope that it heals in 3 days during the all star break. It seems like a very smart move to me.
   35. villageidiom Posted: July 06, 2007 at 05:46 PM (#2431162)
I guess I don't actually know what Donnie-Sadler means, as a verb.


Donnie-Sadler (DON-nee-SAD-ler), verb.
1. To try to hit only weak grounders, esp. for fast runners.
2. To teach a hitter to hit only weak grounders in an attempt to overutilize the hitter's speed, despite the hitter's ability to get on base in conventional ways.
   36. Darren Posted: July 07, 2007 at 02:05 AM (#2431826)
VI got the definition I was going for.


Well, thank goodness we had the righthanded Bailey on the team tonight. I don't know if Hinske could have mustered an 0-4 against Miller. Good thing we didn't have an extra pitcher on the roster. Better that we push Beckett to the limit yesterday then leave Tavarez in today to give up a bajillion runs. Very important to keep our ridiculously underworked pen well-rested.

I've got an idea--let's wait until we clinch before we start giving out promotions to guys who are not Major League hitters.
   37. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 07, 2007 at 12:05 PM (#2431972)
Ellsbury looking not like Sadler in his return to triple-A - 4-for-7, HR, 2B, BB.
   38. tfbg9 Posted: July 07, 2007 at 01:20 PM (#2431985)
Well, thank goodness we had the righthanded Bailey on the team tonight. I don't know if Hinske could have mustered an 0-4 against Miller. Good thing we didn't have an extra pitcher on the roster. Better that we push Beckett to the limit yesterday then leave Tavarez in today to give up a bajillion runs. Very important to keep our ridiculously underworked pen well-rested.

I've got an idea--let's wait until we clinch before we start giving out promotions to guys who are not Major League hitters.


Its a mystery to me why you haven't recieved multiple offers for MLB jobs off this kind of stuff.
   39. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 07, 2007 at 01:39 PM (#2431992)
Its a mystery to me why you haven't recieved multiple offers for MLB jobs off this kind of stuff.

He reads at the grade 5 level, which clearly beyond the capacity of the majority of MLB Middle Management.
   40. Darren Posted: July 07, 2007 at 03:03 PM (#2432030)
To quote Junie B. Jones, Wowee, wow wow! I hope that the Major League club instilled in him that he should be working on driving the ball. I think that would make sense because it's the same thing that Magadan told Cora before this season.

If Ellsbury makes a little leap in power, he's right in line to become Kenny Lofton. Sweet.
   41. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 07, 2007 at 03:24 PM (#2432040)
If Ellsbury can become a legitimate Kenny Lofton comp, I'd be damn happy. Kenny Lofton is inner circle hall of very good.
   42. Darren Posted: July 07, 2007 at 03:40 PM (#2432053)
Here's the case for the Kenny Lofton/Ellsbury comp:

--Same body type (both ~6', 180)
--Neither hit for much power in the minors
--Both stole a bunch of bases in the minors and have great speed
--Both (it would seem) arrive in the majors at ~24-25.
--Both had good defensive reps.

Lofton's power didn't arrive until he was 27, so Ellsbury has some time.
   43. Darren Posted: July 08, 2007 at 03:48 AM (#2433313)
Jeff Bailey sure is doing a great job. Glad he's on the team. Here's hoping they demote him and bring up an extra reliever after this ####### debacle tonight.
   44. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 08, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2433382)
Here's the case for the Kenny Lofton/Ellsbury comp:


Lofton is Black though. ALthough Ellsbury is Native American, which even a more rare minority.
   45. Darren Posted: July 08, 2007 at 10:40 PM (#2434076)
Yeah, that's why everyone compares Pedroia to Eckstein instead of Ray Durham.

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