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   1. Toby Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:15 PM (#3940831)
If Buchholz is healthy they have to consider using him ahead of almost every other bullpen option I can think of.
   2. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:25 PM (#3940855)
If Buchholz is healthy they have to consider using him ahead of almost every other bullpen option I can think of.

Why? So they can lose 3 ALDS games and go home? This game is meaningless. There's no reason to risk one of your brightest young stars in a desperation move.
   3. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:26 PM (#3940858)
Bucholz coming back for the biggest game of the season after being out since June would be the stuff of legend if it worked, but I don't think he's rehabbed enough to do it - it's like he's in the early part of spring training, no?
   4. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:26 PM (#3940859)
The downside risk there seems just immense to me. There are so many different possible scenarios in which Buchholz is terrible. I don't feel terribly like trusting the club's medical and training staff, or their pitching coaches, to make the right call on whether he's ready.

That said, I don't have any good ideas myself about what the Red Sox should do if Lester can't give them the seven good innings they need. Buchholz is one of several not very good options. I'm just saying I don't know if I could watch if he came into the game.
   5. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3940873)
Bucholz coming back for the biggest game of the season after being out since June would be the stuff of legend if it worked

No, that's the thing. It wouldn't be. The city of Boston is NOT excited about this team. This is not a scrappy set of underdogs happy to make the playoffs. This is a should-be-great team that is choking their way into the playoffs. If they make it, they're going to lose in 3 games. 4 if they're lucky.

Buchholz saving a playoff spot won't be a thing of legend, it'll be a "hey, remember that?" moment.
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:43 PM (#3940891)
Then why are you posting on a Sox blog about a meaningless game if it is so meaningless? Just to let us know how much of a lack of meaning was in the meaninglessness?
   7. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3940893)
Then why are you posting on a Sox blog about a meaningless game if it is so meaningless? Just to let us know how much of a lack of meaning was in the meaninglessness?

Because the game becomes VERY meaningful if they use Buchholz. And I'm registering my small opinion that if they do, I'll be disappointed in the team management.
   8. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:49 PM (#3940897)
7 innings from Lester would be great, but strike me as extremely unlikely.

We're likely going to need good outings from Albers and Morales, who haven't pitched since Sunday.

Beating the #### out of Simon (a righty, thank god) would of course be very helpful.

Edit: Let's hope Jacoby Yazbury continues to do his .373/.417/.682 September thing.

Edit2: And yes I realize that as great as Els has been, Yaz's September 1967 (.417/.504/.760) still makes it look almost puny.
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:51 PM (#3940902)
Because the game becomes VERY meaningful if they use Buchholz. And I'm registering my small opinion that if they do, I'll be disappointed in the team management.
So, your preference is that the baseball team not try to win, because you have a cockeyed certainty that they'll lose future games even if they win this one?

I don't know if using Buchholz would be a good strategy, but I do know one thing. I want the Boston Red Sox to win tonight's game because I am a fan of the Boston Red Sox and I expect the Boston Red Sox to try to win the game.
   10. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:52 PM (#3940904)
I think Aceves could give us an inning.

I think Dubront could provide 1+

I'd hate to see it, but Albers could go 1.

Bard's probably good for 1.

Papelbon good for 1.

If Lester can't go 4-5 without shitting the bed, we're likely done for anyway, so there's no real need to push things with Buchholz tonight, not when I think you could piece things together otherwise.

Where it becomes interesting is if there's a Game 163 and basically all of your options are short-rest/bad starters who presumably would be on very short leashes... Then maybe you use him. But in reality, he can probably only go 1 inning and you ould never want to bring him in with runners on base, so... I am guessing the situation just won't come up where it's worth the risk.
   11. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:56 PM (#3940908)
So, your preference is that the baseball team not try to win, because you have a cockeyed certainty that they'll lose future games even if they win this one?
Well, his handle does warn you that he has no judgment.
   12. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 02:58 PM (#3940913)
So, your preference is that the baseball team not try to win, because you have a cockeyed certainty that they'll lose future games even if they win this one?

My preference is that they not do risky things to try to win, yes.
   13. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:00 PM (#3940915)
I read eaerlier in the week that the plan was to have Buchholz pitch if tonight was meaningless but put him on a plane for Ft. Myers and pitch a simulated game down there if it was meaningful so I suspect he is not even with the club.

I agree with TE except about Aceves, I can't imagine he has anything in the tank right now. I also agree that Franklin Morales might be a very important guy tonight.

I still really want this team to make the playoffs. If they make the playoffs it's "disappointing season, lousy finish, but still gave themselves a shot." If they miss it's "epic collapse."
   14. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:02 PM (#3940920)
From PeteAbe at Extra Bases;

Turns out he (Buchholz) is not going to Florida today to pitch in an Instructional League game. He will stay with the team and quite possibly could be activated for the game. At least that's what he told WEEI.com.
   15. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:04 PM (#3940924)
Hey are the regular Sox chatterers going to be in a Sox-O's specific chatter, or in that catch-all Game 162 chatter that Gamingboy set up? Personally I'd prefer the former, I think the latter will be too hard to keep up with.
   16. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:08 PM (#3940930)
So how much do you guys love the Yankees this morning? Let's hear some real heartfelt appreciation.
   17. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:09 PM (#3940931)
Benji, I'll be in the game chatter from time to time. I'm sure it'll be like the last few games where I'm there, then I'm too worked up and incapable of any communication.
   18. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3940932)
So how much do you guys love the Yankees this morning? Let's hear some real heartfelt appreciation.


The Yankees that have lost three in a row to Tampa and turned a bases loaded, no out situation into a goose egg last night?

Not loving them so much.

Rooting my ass off for them though.
   19. hokieneer Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:11 PM (#3940933)
If they make it, they're going to lose in 3 games. 4 if they're lucky.

I'm not a sox fan, so my opinion is different about this. The last few days watching them, they all collectively have a huge case of the tight ass. The team clearly brought the situation upon themselves, but I really do think the pressure is getting to them. Trying not to pull off the biggest chock job ever is a difficult thought to play well. I can see them making the postseason, taking a deep breath, and then just playing baseball. Now they obviously have serious start pitching problems to overcome, and that might be too much for them no matter how much better they end up playing with that gorilla off their backs.
   20. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:14 PM (#3940936)
So how much do you guys love the Yankees this morning? Let's hear some real heartfelt appreciation.


I hate the Yankees. I hope they lose today.
   21. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:25 PM (#3940947)
I can see them making the postseason, taking a deep breath, and then just playing baseball. Now they obviously have serious start pitching problems to overcome, and that might be too much for them no matter how much better they end up playing with that gorilla off their backs.


All along I've felt like your first sentence was going to be true. Having this come down to the final day (plus one potentially) I think they are toast. Bard is cooked and Papelbon is pretty well toasted too. Beckett and Lester aren't right, I just don't see the pitching there.

But I REALLY want them to have that chance. I'd rather get swept in the LDS then not make it.

Supposedly they are pursuing Bruce Chen and Ted Lilly for tomorrow's possible game.
   22. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:36 PM (#3940962)
The insanity of having to sign a pitcher for one game is remarkable to me. It's why this collapse has been incredibly frustrating but at the same time, well, when you don't have any starters and you're getting unlucky, well, what can you do?

For tonight, the only reliever I think who isn't gassed and I have a shred of confidence in is, gulp, Franklin Morales. He was an absolute monster in extras the other night, and while his control isn't great he gets the Ks.
   23. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:37 PM (#3940963)
Supposedly they are pursuing Bruce Chen and Ted Lilly for tomorrow's possible game.


Seriously? Seriously?

I think my head will explode if Bruce Chen starts a Game 163 for the Red Sox.
   24. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:38 PM (#3940968)
I had forgotten about Morales. He certainly could give 1 IP, you would think.

Why on earth would you trade Chen or Lily to the Red Sox for anything short of a king's ransom?
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:47 PM (#3940977)
If the Red Sox acquire a SP for game 163, and they win, I bet MLB enacts an offseason rule to prevent it from happening again. Not that I think they should (unless it was part of a ban on all September trades), but I suspect it would cause illogical outrage from way too many quarters.
   26. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:53 PM (#3940983)
Why on earth would you trade Chen or Lily to the Red Sox for anything short of a king's ransom?


Because, despite this mess, the Sox ain't dumb. I think Theo is smart enough to be realistic about what he's getting in Chen/Lilly.

Morales should be able to do more than an inning. I think he's first up out of the pen tonight.
   27. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 03:55 PM (#3940986)
If the Red Sox acquire a SP for game 163, and they win, I bet MLB enacts an offseason rule to prevent it from happening again. Not that I think they should (unless it was part of a ban on all September trades), but I suspect it would cause illogical outrage from way too many quarters.


There may be some logic to it. For example, might the Rangers trade someone like Colby Lewis (or whoever their 5th starter is) to the Sox in hopes that he knocks out the Rays then the Sox make Lewis a PTBNL and return him to the Rangers for next year . This example doesn't work great (Lewis ain't gettin' traded) but it is something to be avoided.
   28. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:01 PM (#3940995)
Well, there are practical issues here too--the trade would have to be consummated within the next 3-4 hours, for starters, to allow for travel time so the guy got in tonight instead of tomorrow--just so he could go over scouting reports, etc. in advance of the game. But then you're asking a guy to fly to BAL, hang out a few hours, then fly overnight to Tampa (likely not hitting the pillow until 4-5am), and then pitch a playoff game. It's almost bonkers nuts.

I get that there are no good options for tomorrow, so maybe you roll the dice, but man... this would be one of the loopiest things I can ever recall happening.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:06 PM (#3941004)
There may be some logic to it. For example, might the Rangers trade someone like Colby Lewis (or whoever their 5th starter is) to the Sox in hopes that he knocks out the Rays then the Sox make Lewis a PTBNL and return him to the Rangers for next year . This example doesn't work great (Lewis ain't gettin' traded) but it is something to be avoided.


That situation can exist throughout September. If Game 163 is a regular season game, regular season rules need apply (and do). I just think the cries of the "unfairness" will be deafening if it happens, and MLB will react with a dumbass solution.

Honestly, if it were to happen, I'd rather see the Red Sox acquire someone today for tonight's game, and have Lester on full rest tomorrow.
   30. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:10 PM (#3941012)
Honestly, if it were to happen, I'd rather see the Red Sox acquire someone today for tonight's game, and have Lester on full rest tomorrow.


I know it won't help to feel this way should we make the ALDS, but right now I want Lester facing a weaker lineup, regardless of the rest. Now... maybe the weaker lineup isn't the O's...

Lily would be interesting solely because it's so out of left field that you'd think the Rays would have little advance scouting on him, which might be an advantage--I have no idea.
   31. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:14 PM (#3941019)
How could anyone claim unfairness? Every team is able to block such a deal from happening. If it happens, every team has already essentially approved it.
   32. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#3941020)
So how much do you guys love the Yankees this morning? Let's hear some real heartfelt appreciation.

Go away.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3941024)
How could anyone claim unfairness? Every team is able to block such a deal from happening. If it happens, every team has already essentially approved it.


You're familiar with people, aren't you? Unfairness need not be present for people to carp about it.

You don't think the evil moneybag Red Sox acquiring a starting pitcher at the last minute to pitch in a postseason game (forget that it isn't, a lot of fans likely don't realize it's part of the regular season) wouldn't get people howling.
   34. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:22 PM (#3941026)
Well, but the fans aren't the one enacting the rule change. The problem is that teams are stupid about waiver claims, and use a gentleman's agreement that keeps them from blocking valuable pieces from getting through waivers. That's the problem.
   35. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:28 PM (#3941032)
How could anyone claim unfairness? Every team is able to block such a deal from happening. If it happens, every team has already essentially approved it.
Presumably they are only bothering to pursue guys who already successfully passed through waivers, right?

If it's permitted and they think the price is worth paying, then good for them for thinking outside the box.
   36. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:30 PM (#3941035)
So how much do you guys love the Yankees this morning? Let's hear some real heartfelt appreciation.

Go away.


Ingrate.
   37. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:30 PM (#3941038)
Well, but the fans aren't the one enacting the rule change. The problem is that teams are stupid about waiver claims, and use a gentleman's agreement that keeps them from blocking valuable pieces from getting through waivers. That's the problem.


Why on earth would Tampa have engaged in blocking maneuevers on Ted Lilly or Chris Capuano when those guys were put on waivers? The Rays weren't in a race at the time.

As for who makes the rules, if enough outrage is worked up over it, Bud will respond with a declaration that all future one-game playoffs are part of the postseason. Problem solved with mindless solution.
   38. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:31 PM (#3941040)
Presumably they are only bothering to pursue guys who already successfully passed through waivers, right?

Right. So every team said "I'm fine with this guy going elsewhere."
   39. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:35 PM (#3941047)
Why on earth would Tampa have engaged in blocking maneuevers on Ted Lilly or Chris Capuano when those guys were put on waivers? The Rays weren't in a race at the time.

Because it would keep them from being traded to an opponent.
   40. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:36 PM (#3941049)
Because it would keep them from being traded to an opponent.


Why would they care about Ted Lilly being traded to an opponent?

Yes, there are times when adherence to the gentleman's agreement bites a team in the ass. But, in this instance, you're basically proposing dickishness for dickishness' sake.

FTR, is the Randy Myers' scenario still possible. If the Rays put a waiver claim in on a guy they don't want, can they be stuck with him? If so, that would be the ultimate reason not to do what Fly's advocating.
   41. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:40 PM (#3941052)
Why would they care about Ted Lilly being traded to an opponent?

Really?
   42. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:42 PM (#3941053)
Really?


Yes, really. Why would the Tampa Bay Rays, out of the playoff picture as far as they were concerned, care about some other undefined team making a possibly pointless or bad deal for a member of the Los Angeles Dodgers?
   43. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:43 PM (#3941054)
Because they weren't out of the playoff picture. Same reason they should have cared about winning.
   44. JJ1986 Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:49 PM (#3941064)
Trading for Lilly or Chen should be allowed, but what if some random team with close ties to the Red Sox traded them, say, Mat Latos for one game with the understanding that he would be traded back in a month. Is there anything to stop that?
   45. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#3941067)
Because they weren't out of the playoff picture. Same reason they should have cared about winning.
Lilly, for one, is guaranteed ~$22 million for 2012-2013. There's no way the Rays put in a waiver claim back in August, especially because it was the Dodgers and they might well have let him go.

Chen doesn't have that issue, but I can't imagine anyone saw him as a difference maker worth blocking, even if they were paying attention with an eye toward what at the time they had to see as a very improbable playoff run.
   46. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:51 PM (#3941069)
Trading for Lilly or Chen should be allowed, but what if some random team with close ties to the Red Sox traded them, say, Mat Latos for one game with the understanding that he would be traded back in a month. Is there anything to stop that?

Yes. The Waiver system.
   47. Nasty Nate Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:52 PM (#3941070)
Why would the Tampa Bay Rays, out of the playoff picture as far as they were concerned


this is just not true - sadly
   48. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 04:53 PM (#3941072)
Because they weren't out of the playoff picture. Same reason they should have cared about winning.


So then, what if they needed a starting pitcher for the final game? If teams routinely blocked these types of moves just to block, then the Rays couldn't avail themselves of a last-minute Lilly.

The gentleman's agreement exists because it works to a team's benefit as much to its detriment. There was no specific reason for the Rays to put in a waiver claim on Lilly (or Capuano or any of the hundreds of other players when they were initially put through). That's why they don't do it.*

And I'm not claiming that there would be a legitimate grievance to the Sox acquiring a starter for Game 163. In fact, I said just the opposite. I just don't think that the maneuver is perfectly reasonable would matter to a large swath of onlookers.

* And if the Myers situation still exists, that's an even bigger reason.
   49. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:08 PM (#3941099)
Nothing personal, YR.
   50. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:08 PM (#3941102)
Isn't the biggest variable for tonight's game the performance of O's starter Alfredo Simon? He has started 15 games since being installed into the rotation on July 9th. In those 15 starts:

90 IP, 97 Hs, 64 Ks, 30 BBs, 4.90 ERA, .278/.340/.484 slash line.

But those 15 starts are really bifurcated:

In six of his starts, he's pitched at least 7 innings, giving up 3 or fewer runs.
In seven other starts, he's gone 5 innings or less, usually giving up 4 or more runs.

There aren't really many examples of a guy who'll go out and give you, say, 6 innings, 4 ER.

Look, if the Red Sox go OFF with the bats, and are up 9-1 after 3 innings, then the bullpen usage issues begin melting away very quickly. In that scenario, I'd probably let Lester throw no more than about 85 pitches, then I'd go to Albers and Morales, and see if I can get two innings out those two. Then, if you have a big lead, you can either go Doubront and see if he can finish up the game, or try out Buchholz and let him throw 30 pitches.

As a Red Sox fan, I really want to try to avoid using Aceves, Bard, and Papelbon. Because I don't think Lester is going to give us 8 innings, I don't know how else you can avoid using these three relievers unless the Sox score lots of runs...which they could totally do.
   51. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:09 PM (#3941105)
Supposedly they are pursuing Bruce Chen and Ted Lilly for tomorrow's possible game.

Isn't there some kid on a farm in Iowa, or the Dominican Republic?

Heck, let then all warm up, Francona can pick which one to sign and start in the biggest game of the season.
   52. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:32 PM (#3941148)
In that scenario, I'd probably let Lester throw no more than about 85 pitches,


Screw that, let him go as long as possible. Do NOT go looking for the guy who doesn't have it.

Heck, let then all warm up, Francona can pick which one to sign and start in the biggest game of the season.


Thanks for bringing back a good memory. When I was 10 my little league team was in this same spot. We won a game Saturday morning then had to play a one game playoff that afternoon. Because of the league's rules on pitcher usage we were pretty much out of pitchers. I'll never forget me (I was a catcher, hadn't pitched all year) and two other kids who hadn't pitched either warming up side by side while our coaches watched and eventually decided on letting me pitch.

To this day I remember it well, struck out 4, walked 1 and won the game 5-4 because my buddy Scott made a sliding catch in the outfield to retire the best hitter in the league in the last inning and jumped into my father's arms in joy after the final out. As good a baseball memory as I ever had.
   53. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:33 PM (#3941151)
Yankees going with Dellin Betances tonight. Looks like a big wild lefty with some damn good stuff.
   54. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#3941164)
#52 - To be clear, I am NOT saying that if Lester is cruising along at 85 pitches, pitching really well, good control, etc., that I'd take him out. Let's face it - whether he throws 75 pitches or 115 pitches, he won't be able to pitch again until Tuesday, anyway (if there is a next Tuesday...). I'm saying that Tito should go in assuming that Lester might not be effective for 115 pitches, and that he should be prepared to move quickly if Lester starts losing it quickly. I don't want "Slow Hand Tito" to have Lester starting the 6th inning, up 5-1, and then he lets Lester give up two walks and a HR before he figures out that he might be out of gas...
   55. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#3941167)
Yankees going with Dellin Betances tonight. Looks like a big wild lefty with some damn good stuff.


Huge (6'8 260+) wild *righty* with great stuff, fastball hit 98MPH this year and a big knuckle-curve that looks like it's dropping down from 10 feet. He has mechanical issues because of his size but he's been very hard to hit at every level. He made his big league debut a couple of weeks back and was so geeked (he's from New York) that he couldn't throw the ball within a foot of the plate. I think he'll do better tonight.
   56. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:40 PM (#3941170)
To this day I remember it well, struck out 4, walked 1 and won the game 5-4 because my buddy Scott made a sliding catch in the outfield to retire the best hitter in the league in the last inning and jumped into my father's arms in joy after the final out. As good a baseball memory as I ever had.
Cool story, Jose.
   57. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:41 PM (#3941173)
Sorry, saw comparisons to CC and thought lefty.
   58. Mister High Standards Posted: September 28, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#3941194)
I wonder if the game will be on the MLB network.
   59. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:00 PM (#3941207)
Betances had an ERA over 5 in AAA. I am not holding out any hope he'll shut down the Rays today.
   60. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3941215)
Well yeah, in 21 innings. In AA Trenton he had a 3.41 ERA in 106 innings with 10 K/9 and 7.3 H/9. Even his AAA stats aren't that awful if you look closer - 11.6 K/9, 6.9 H/9. Walks killed him (6.4/9, way higher than at any other level in his career, mostly due to one game with 9 BB in 3 IP).
   61. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:10 PM (#3941233)
I see a high k/high walk guy with the potential ability to lock in and the potential ability to blow up. Dellin Betances, I am projecting all of my hopes and fears onto you apparently. God speed.
   62. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:15 PM (#3941241)
10 K/9 and 7.3 H/9
...
11.6 K/9, 6.9 H/9
Those are great numbers. The important thing here is that K rate and H rate are the only two stats you need when evaluating a pitcher. This is why Steve Dalkowski's 1958 season with Aberdeen is known as the greatest season ever pitched.
   63. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:18 PM (#3941253)
Quiet you.
   64. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:18 PM (#3941255)
Marc Normandin just tweeted that Lavarnway is in the lineup tonight. That name is too ripe for Berman nicknames and makes me hate myself when I think of them, but I hope I get to shout it a couple more times tonight.

Ed: starting at catcher, batting 5th.
   65. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:27 PM (#3941272)
Marc Normandin just tweeted that Lavarnway is in the lineup tonight. That name is too ripe for Berman nicknames and makes me hate myself when I think of them, but I hope I get to shout it a couple more times tonight.


I've probably shared this previously but a friend and I were both down on Saltalamacchia to start the year. Those rare times he did something well we would immediately text one another SALTY!!! For amusement purposes it became a bit of a race (lending to a funny moment where we texted each other while sitting next to each other in Fenway).

Anyway, we spent several minutes last night working this out and setttled on LAVVY!!! as the acceptable nickname.
   66. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:41 PM (#3941306)
Ellsbury CF
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Gonzalez 1B
Lavarnway C
Drew RF
Scutaro SS
Crawford LF
Aviles 3B

Basically what you'd expect, plus the boorish one earning another go.
   67. Joel W Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:42 PM (#3941308)
Pretty good right left balance. God do I miss Youk.
   68. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:48 PM (#3941321)
I would guess that unless Betances is just absolutely cruising, he probably won't go more than 4-5 innings tonight. Tampa Bay is going to have plenty of chances to score runs. And of course, Price is pitching for them as well.
   69. Textbook Editor Posted: September 28, 2011 at 06:55 PM (#3941332)
Eh, I half-expected Lowrie to get the nod at 3B tonight, but maybe he can't go multiple days in a row just yet.
   70. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:00 PM (#3941337)
I expect Dan/Darren/Dale/whoever to be along soon complaining about Drew getting the nod again over Reddick. And i don't know that i will be able to disagree with them.
   71. BDC Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:08 PM (#3941347)
Saltalamacchia + Lavarnway tie VanLandingham + Mulholland for most letters by two teammates at a single position (23).
   72. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:15 PM (#3941362)
Anyway, we spent several minutes last night working this out and setttled on LAVVY!!! as the acceptable nickname.

Larvae is a much better knickname.
   73. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:20 PM (#3941366)
Because of the league's rules on pitcher usage we were pretty much out of pitchers. I'll never forget me (I was a catcher, hadn't pitched all year) and two other kids who hadn't pitched either warming up side by side while our coaches watched and eventually decided on letting me pitch.

To this day I remember it well, struck out 4, walked 1 and won the game 5-4 because my buddy Scott made a sliding catch in the outfield to retire the best hitter in the league in the last inning and jumped into my father's arms in joy after the final out. As good a baseball memory as I ever had.


How soon can you get to Tampa?

EDIT: In Olde Primer, that would have been posted by Theo Epstein.
   74. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:21 PM (#3941369)
I expect Dan/Darren/Dale/whoever to be along soon complaining about Drew getting the nod again over Reddick. And i don't know that i will be able to disagree with them.

Drew's defense is vastly better than Reddick's so I'm hardly surprised they're going with JD.
   75. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:23 PM (#3941373)
I have an Aceves question...

His BABIP this year (469 PA) is .235; going into the year (510 PA), it was .240.

As far as you can tell, how much of that is a fluke? (As a minor leaguer, his BABIPs were low, but not inordinately so - but that was some time back.)
   76. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#3941374)
Drew's defense is vastly better than Reddick's so I'm hardly surprised they're going with JD.
Not that you're wrong about this necessarily--I don't know--but Drew's 3 Stooges act with the RF wall yesterday would seem to suggest perhaps Camden Yards isn't his best park.
   77. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#3941386)
Reddick's defense has been excellent this year. He made a couple of bonehead errors in the field, and entirely stopped hitting down the stretch. So when a plausible alternative in Drew came along, he got benched.

I have no idea if it's the right call, but I think Francona is shuffling players with a goal toward shaking things up, and that's can't be an entirely bad thing.
   78. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:41 PM (#3941393)
Reddick's played twice since botching the ball in right last week at Fenway. I don't think those two things are unrelated.
   79. Mattbert Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:46 PM (#3941399)
How soon can you get to Tampa?

Heck, I pitched in college and I live ten minutes from the Trop. Anyone got Theo's number? I'll suit up.
   80. bunyon Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#3941406)
EDIT: In Olde Primer, that would have been posted by Theo Epstein.

Was he banned?
   81. SoSH U at work Posted: September 28, 2011 at 07:58 PM (#3941410)
Saltalamacchia + Lavarnway tie VanLandingham + Mulholland for most letters by two teammates at a single position (23).


This isn't really adjusted for context. Salty only had two other players to draw a fellow many-lettered teammate from, whereas Billy V. had a full staff from which to pick. In terms of Adjusted Positional CLitS (Combined Letters in their Surnames), SaltyLavvy can't be touched.
   82. Dan Posted: September 28, 2011 at 08:26 PM (#3941450)
I expect Dan/Darren/Dale/whoever to be along soon complaining about Drew getting the nod again over Reddick. And i don't know that i will be able to disagree with them.


Sorry that I missed my cue. I was taking a nap. Drew really hasn't done anything in the games they've started him in, and has even looked rusty on defense. Burying Reddick due to one error is stupid. Drew's gone .273/.273/.273. Hooray. A huge upgrade to Reddick's "nothing down the stretch" in September posting a 271/.306/.407 line.
   83. Dan Posted: September 28, 2011 at 08:30 PM (#3941456)
Also, Tim Wakefield talking about 2012:

“I’ve definitely made up my mind that I definitely want to come back next year,” Wakefield said. “I have another goal in front of me that I’d like to accomplish, and that’s the all-time record for the Red Sox in wins. I’m only seven away. I think the fans deserve an opportunity to watch me chase that record. We’ll see what happens.”


I think we deserve an opportunity to never have to watch you pitch again, Tim.

The timing for talking about personal stats and records is incredibly poor too.
   84. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 28, 2011 at 08:31 PM (#3941459)
Reddick sometimes misses the cut off man and the dude selling hotdogs ten rows back.

maybe that hasn't helped.
   85. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: September 28, 2011 at 09:06 PM (#3941515)
The timing for talking about personal stats and records is incredibly poor too.


Yeah, talk about tacky. Using the fans as an excuse? Ugh. It's a little surprising, since it seems like he's always been a good team guy. I hope his face was wincing in regret the moment those words left his mouth.
   86. Fat Al Posted: September 28, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3941528)
The timing for talking about personal stats and records is incredibly poor too.


Yeah, talk about tacky. Using the fans as an excuse? Ugh. It's a little surprising, since it seems like he's always been a good team guy. I hope his face was wincing in regret the moment those words left his mouth.


That is indeed surprising. I never thought of Wakefield as a jackass.
   87. karlmagnus Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:19 PM (#3941598)
Wakefield isn't a jackass; I think he just wanted to make it clear that he'd like to be back, and I suspect indications are he won't be. That will sour relations for a time, but hopefully only a short time -- he'd be very valuable in a coaching and later Pesky role for the next 40-50 years.
   88. ray james Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:44 PM (#3941627)
That was a brutally tactless thing to say though, especially since, if you had to pick one player who has played the worst, it might be Wakefield.

They might bring him back but based on his play this year, he doesn't deserve to.
   89. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:51 PM (#3941635)
That was a brutally tactless thing to say though, especially since, if you had to pick one player who has played the worst, it might be Wakefield.


Oh good lord. Some writer looks over and notices, 'hey, this might be Wakefield's last game. I should see if he's coming back.'

Wake answers, in a mildly awkward way, that he'd like to come back to the team he's spent 16 years with, a team that he clearly loves playing for about as much as anyone has since Pesky. That's it. You'd have to have spent the last three months ######## about his every appearance to think this is remotely meaningful.
   90. ray james Posted: September 28, 2011 at 10:57 PM (#3941651)
You'd have to have spent the last three months ######## about his every appearance to think this is remotely meaningful.


Well, there you go.
   91. Dan Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:17 AM (#3944360)
Well I think we can all say that was the most dramatic end to a choke job in history.

Going to be an interesting offseason for the Sox. Meanwhile, I'll be rooting for the Rays to go all the way.
   92. Joel W Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:23 AM (#3944391)
What Dan said. Thanks guys for a, well, not good season, but for an interesting one.
   93. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:23 AM (#3944394)
My rooting order;

Milwaukee
Texas
Detroit
Arizona
Philadelphia
Tampa Bay
St. Louis
New York
   94. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:27 AM (#3944406)
Um, #### us?
   95. Dan Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:28 AM (#3944419)
So who wants to defend Francona coming back now?
   96. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:30 AM (#3944434)
Wait, how the #### is this Francona's fault?

IT WAS ####### PAPELBON! THE OVERPRICED ##########!

DO NOT ####### RE-SIGN HIM!
   97. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:33 AM (#3944452)
So who wants to defend Francona coming back now?


I don't feel like having a fight right now but I think we have to be very careful how they move forward here. It may be time to let him go but at the same time tonight was a microcosm of why he shouldn't go, they left 11 men on base and he managed this game exactly how you'd want it to be managed but his star closer blew it.

My gut is he probably should go. Too many little things that Mikael has chronicled in terms of conditioning and fundamental mistakes are what get me. At the same time, I don't think it's a slam dunk.

Part of me wants to see him go to not hear anymore ######## about the guy. Two World Series, a third ALCS berth, some of the most dramatic and exciting moments of my life happened on his watch and people act like he's a ####### moron. I can understand being upset with some of the moves, I can understand wanting him gone, but the venom just perplexes me. But people feel how they feel, I realize that not everyone agrees with me.
   98. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:34 AM (#3944455)
I hope you're joking.

So what are the ####### playoff odds now? #### ############# worthless ####-faced ######## anal ####### slutbags.

EDIT: I hope Long John is joking.
   99. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:34 AM (#3944457)
IT WAS ####### PAPELBON! THE OVERPRICED ##########!


The first round of blame has to go to the offense/Bogar for failing to score in the eighth and ninth. Then Papelbon.
   100. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 29, 2011 at 04:34 AM (#3944458)
My rooting order:

Milwaukee (I'm a groomsman in a Brewer's fan's wedding)
Tampa (They deserve it)
St. Louis (Good friends with a St. Louis fan)
Texas (They deserve it)
Detroit (They deserve it)
Arizona (Nothing against them but they've won more recently than all of the above but St. Louis)
Philly (#### them)
Yankees (If it's Phillies/Yankees I'm hoping Al Qaeda intervenes with a nuke)
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