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This could have been a truly great season. Instead, this. ####### fuckity crap.
Go Rays.
I like the Rays' odds at beating out the Yankees, but we'll see. I think the depth in their rotation will win out over the Yankees' insane lineup. I mean the Yankees are trotting out Dustin ####### Moseley as a starter, for God's sake. And really, if the Yankees lost another starter for an extended stretch, they could come back in reach for the Sox.
edit: and you guys are killing the value of the Sox tickets I stuck on Ebay three days ago. Stop it.
I agree, Bill Simmons doesn't.
Furthermore, I bet they trade Ellsbury over the winter, who's my favorite among the young position players. Grrh!
Thank goodness you cleared that up, we weren't sure where you stood on the issue. Seems odd to me that a Red Sox fan wouldn't view the World Series championship teams fondly.
If the Yankees lost another starter, they'd just trade for an extra pitcher making enough money to slide through waivers. Or, being the Yankees, they'd come up with Aaron Small V2.0.
Sox losing their best hitter to an obscure hand injury. Only figures given the number and nature of injuries to the club this year. I can only assume that scurvy will rampage through the clubhouse next month.
With his trade value at perhaps an all-time low? I hope not.
I mean the odds aren't great, but as a Yankee fan, I'm not feeling hugely confident the way they've played recently. They'll probably right the ship, but 5.5 G's is not an insurmountablr lead.
Sure, but weird stuff can happen. Who knows, Lowell might have a freakishly ridiculous month.
If I were a Sox fan, I wouldn't expect to win, but I wouldn't stop paying attention.
I don't think anyone here is going to stop paying attention. There is a reality to the situation that can't be ignored though. If the Yankees play .500 the rest of the way the Sox still need to play .600 ball. That's a tall order without Youk (and Pedroia for the next couple of weeks). The reality is that it is more likely that 100 wins, not 95, will be the number which means the Sox have to play .700 baseball the rest of the way.
I can't help it, he seems so sincere with his hatred. I'm trying to envision him jumping around like a madman like everyone else was when they won the World Series in 2004. How do you get from that to this level of disgust with an organization that keeps on winning regularly? I mean it's not like they went the way of the '97 Marlins or even '01 Diamondbacks, they've been a consistent contender but he is just so determined to be pissed at them, it perplexes me.
It's happened to me a couple of times with the Yankees when they've made a bunch of moves I hated.
After 1996, letting Key and Wetteland go really pissed me off. I was actively happy when Rivera gave up the Sandy Alomar HR to blow the ALDS vs. Cleve. But the 1998 team brought me back.
In 2004, I despised letting Pettitte go and the Sheffield signing and Vazquez and Brown trades, to the point that the 2004 collapse against the Red Sox barely phased me. I hated the Randy Johnson aquisition even more. I was off the team until 2007 when Pettitte came back.
karlmangus has held this grudge a long time though.
It's not so much "stop paying attention" as it is "not agonize over losses as much, because it's exceedingly unlikely to matter."
In a mostly unrelated point, I also have the sinking feeling the Patriots are done as far as winning or appearing in Super Bowls with teams that resemble the current one.
Yeah, I get the same feeling with the Celtics. They're just too old, and will probably be a much different, worse team next year. It may be a rough couple years for NE sports fans after a pretty nice run.
So it's a good thing I'm moving to Seattle! Home of...a mediocre football team, a crappy baseball team, and no basketball. ####.
It took this team a month to make up about 5.5 games in the standings earlier this year, and they have two months left to the season. Don't give up yet.
The Red Sox fundamentals are still sound. They've got a good core of young or prime-age talent, the building blocks of a great rotation, a monster lineup when healthy, and a better-than-average management team.
But they're probably going to be the only game in town as far as league titles are concerned for a while, which will just make the Boston winters that much harder to endure and the fleeting summers something more to savor.
There's that. Which aint much.
vs CLE: 2-0
at NYY: 2-2
at TOR: 2-1
at TEX: 1-2
vs LAA: 2-1
vs TOR: 2-1
vs SEA: 3-0
at TBR: 1-2
at BAL: 2-1
prior to Labor Day weekend: 17-10
vs CHW: 2-1
vs TBR: 2-1
at OAK: 2-1
at SEA: 2-1
vs TOR: 3-0
vs BAL: 3-0
at NYY: 1-2
at CHW: 2-2
vs NYY: 2-1
September stretch run: 19-9
From today forward: 36-19
Final record: 97-65
This.
Well, the Sounders lead MLS in attendance, and I wouldn't call a 22-4 team that has the best player in the world "no basketball".
Well, that projection is off to a grand start.
The cop directing traffic at the construction near the Route 2 access in Cambridge asked me for the score when I pulled up to make a right turn (the radio was on very loud and I had the window open). Naturally right as he asks the Indians bust it open.
1. I wonder if this team, by resting everyone in sight to save them for next year, could lose enough games to get their first round draft pick protected (I doubt it).
2. I can't root for the Rays either, at least not until it's down to them and the Yankees. For now, Go Rangers.
Boo. Boo Rangers. I hate them of old, and it will never go away.
Go National League.
I generally regard km as sincere but hopelessly deluded. This statement... pushes the bounds of credulity. Pedroia, Youk, Beckett, Papelbon, Varitek, Lester are all key members and/or vocal 'leaders' of the club and can scarcely be regarded as machinist groupthinkers. Buchholz, Nava, Beltre, Hall and Lester again, among others, all have plucky/improbable/quirky characteristics and narratives. I think part of the reason km yearns so deeply for the return of the Duquette years has to do with the phenomenon alluded to in [13] - the gruff, cynical, perpetual-loser Red Sox fan persona is so deeply a part of him that he barely wants to acknowledge that things have changed for RSN.
Pedro has been the most outstanding - in every way - Sox of my lifetime. Just because there can only be one Pedro doesn't mean that every other team ever is going to bore me.
Nomar had an "anti-machine" approach? He was one of the most OCD player I've ever watched play. I loved him pre-2004, but he had to go. Refusing 4/60 million has to be one of the biggest stupid and arrogant mistakes a player has ever made. Has he made 60 million total since then?
I know this isn't what karl said - I don't know how the 2002 club could possibly compare to the 2004 club in terms of fun-to-watchability - but I do think it's fair to say that the Red Sox have grown steadily more corporate and less awesome over the years.
This isn't to say they're a bunch of proto-fascist automatons like the Yankees, of course. 2010 has been a step up from recent clubs, in my wholly objective opinion. I love Pedroia and Papelbon especially, Papi is still here, new guys like Beltre and Martinez are fun, the AAAA platoon squad has been great to root for, and I enjoy having even mostly boring minor league products like Lester, Buchholz, Bard, and Ellsbury doing their thing. But I think there's a pretty big gap in fun between this club and 2004.
I don't know what that even means, but giving up on this season should be reserved for those more inclined to bandwagon jumping, anyway. It's a team game, folks, and as such, no individual player should ever be the difference between winning and losing. Youks is a great, great player, but he is only one. I don't care for any excuses; if the team really wants it, they can have it.
Go into NY and ####### sweep. Do it.
Aren't like half the best players on the team injured?
Depends how long. The shorter the time available to them, the less likely it is to even out over that span. And two months isn't that much time.
You're new here. I assure you I'm no bandwagon jumper. I believe the BTF Wiki has a link to a retrosheet page of the first game I saw in person, at Fenway, in 1967. Maybe I was a bandwagon jumper then, but, I was 9, so, I could be forgiven for that.
They've just lost two games to CLEVELAND. At home. This is not a team heading in the right direction.
"pants pissing" was coined by me here in '07 when many Red Sox fans were worried that the team wouldn't make the playoffs. I think it started in July, and I spent the rest of the season trying to keep those worriers off the ledge.
This year is over, competitively speaking. I'll still watch, but, it is over.
Apes are noted for their leaping abilities.
Because they lost two games against a team they should had beat? Nonsense. Some hangover after Youks loss should be expected, but there's still 2 months to go.
No ####### excuses. Sweep the clowns.
They can pull it together, and I can also hit the lottery for millions tomorrow night.
And it's not even as if they have their destiny in their own hands. If the Yankees and Rays don't completely collapse, it's over.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. This ain't my first observation of a pennant race, boyo.
This is their big problem. They have the two best teams (by record) in baseball ahead of them. And well ahead of them. They have to outplay two excellent teams by a substantial margin and they only have one third of the season to do so. Not impossible, but quite unlikely.
I'm pleased, as a fan of the Yankees, but part of me must admit that it would have been extremely compelling to see New York, Tampa, and a full-strength Boston battling it out for two playoff spots.
Well, Beltre just hit a grand slam. GO RED SOX. PRINT THE PLAYOFF TICKETS!!
Turn that around. If Rodriguez and Jeter start playing as well as your reasonable expectations prior to the season led you to believe, then the Yankees will be even tougher. Those two are just as "due" as the Red Sox are. Which is to say, as my esteemed colleague Mr. Bivens implies, that "due" is an illusion.
I respect that point. I still believe they're too 1)hurt 2)old to do so, but those two playing better would not be shocking to me.
And, unless they make up some ground in that week (which, while entirely possible, will be hampered by the absence of Youkilis and Pedroia), they're looking at making up a 6ish game deficit in less than fifty games. And making it up against the two best teams (to that point) in baseball. It's not an insuperable challenge, but it's a very difficult one.
I don't and they aren't. But to repeat, there are 2 months to go.
Do you think the Yankees are likely to go 30-25 (or the Rays to go 30-24) in their remaining games? Considering how well they've played thus far, that seems like probably a conservative estimate.
In order to merely tie that record, the Red Sox would need to go 36-18 the rest of the way. Could the Red Sox play .666 ball the rest of the way? Sure they could (they are pure evil, after all). Is it likely, especially with their best hitter out for the season? Not terribly. Should they give up? Absolutely not, but let's not delude ourselves here.
Indeed, but those teams are essentially tied, so the Red Sox have about the same problem in catching either. It would surprise me if the AL Wildcard won fewer than 97 games, considering where New York and Tampa are right now.
I'm guessing here: 7-8 games up August 1st, 1-1.5 games up with a week, maybe 2, to go. So, the Yankees did what you Joe is claiming impossible just 3 years ago with a pitching staff of Pettitte, Wang, Mussina, and, who else, Igawa? 1st year Hughes? Clemens corpse?... garbage. Does this make any sense to you? Come on, man, pull those big-boy pants up, we're talking 6.5 games.
It would help considerably if the Yankees stopped trying, as the Sox did at the tail end of 07. It's probably doubtful though, since the Yankees, unlike the 07 Sox, are still in a race.
Up 7 when Manny went on the DL, up 1.5 when he came back. Amazing what losing your best hitter can do.
6.56 game deficit. ####### insane.Go Sox!
Go to NYC
Sweep. Teach them wins can't be bought.
Pay forward from Youks
Say what?
Money talks, pal. Meet the new, improved and reinfused Adrian Beltre.
Adrian Beltre is a fine player having an excellent season. He is not in the same class as Kevin Youkilis when it comes to batting.
Tell it to the Mariners.
The problem right now isn't that they can't play better than NY/TB the rest of the way, the problem is they have to make up six games.
Possible? Yes
Likely? No
Toward the end of the 07 season, it became pretty apparent that the Red Sox were going to be in the playoffs. The Tigers and M's started to fade, leaving just four teams fighting for four playoff berths. If the Yankees had managed to overtake the Red Sox for the AL East lead, the Sox were still safely in the playoffs. The Sox appeared aware of this, as their insistence on giving Eric Gagne the ball in high leverage situations, among other questionable moves, seemed to indicate.
If the 10 Yankees (or Rays, for that matter) were to take the same approach with regards to the Red Sox, that club would be in jeopardy of missing the postseason entirely. Thus, gaining that ground may be a little more difficult for the Red Sox in 2010 than it was for the 07 Yankees.
I'll be rooting like hell for the Sox, but I'm not expecting anything. But as I'm not one to deter youthful optimism, go right ahead and keep believing it's right there for the taking.
Spaceman, I love you. and I'll bet Vegas loves you too. Especially the roulette guys.
Yes, because that year Beltre wasn't the second best hitter on the squad, it was some guy named Ortiz who posted a thoroughly pedestrian .332 /.445/.621/1.066 batting line -- almost 200 points of OPS higher than Manny's in fact.
But it's cute to see a fanboy on this site.
Yeah, and while it's natural that you're concentrating on what's happened to so many of your best players, you may have missed a few recent things about the Yankees:
Sabathia is in a funk. Not a complete collapse by any means, but giving up 3-4 runs a start and not going as deep as he was. This is not the second half C.C. of recent years.
Burnett has been wildly inconsistent, and in his last start had the worst inning of his career.
Hughes has leveled off to the point of becoming a six inning pitcher. He nibbles maddeningly and gives up home runs like crazy at home.
Vasquez has picked it up, but he's still prone to that one bad inning.
Jeter is having the worst offensive year of his career, and that after getting off to a good start in April.
A-Rod is almost back to where he was in the 05-07 postseason, although maybe with all that 600 BS out of the way he'll relax a bit.
Gardner is quickly coming down to Earth. Cervelli came back to Earth months ago.
Right now the Yankees are being carried by three players: Swish, Tex, and Cano. And even Tex is still prone to mini-funks where he can't hit a changeup no matter how many times he sees it.
All this isn't to say that they're as bad off as a team that seems to have lost about 80% of its best players for long stretches. But no matter what the current W-L record might say, if Pettitte doesn't come off the DL and return to his previous form, and the rest of the starters don't pick it up, I wouldn't like their chances against Tampa Bay in the postseason. It may have been smart from a longer perspective not to go after Lee, but right now it's hurting them. That .918 WHIP of his would sure come in handy at this point.
And believe it or not, I'm as saddened by Youk's departure as most of you are. I'm like rlr in #66, in that I was really looking forward to a great three way race among the three best teams in baseball. #### injuries.
His best players are also your best players Andy.
There ya go. Ditto, I don't expect anything either but I will root like hell for them.
I know I came off as fanboyish last night but I do have your same reservations. Making the playoffs will not be an easy thing to do, with or w/o Youks. But I really believe in this team, and have sensed all year that they're destined for greater than 3rd place. I don't know how they're going to do it, I just sense that they will.
I agree with everything St Nick wrote. His examples have a lot to do with why I'm more optimistic on the Sox chances than most. But I wasn't about to write them. Last week I was well lambasted by having the nerve to post that I hated Posada's game. Mostly for anecdotal reasons, but I just hate the man's game. That was enough for me, I'd rather not participate in any flame war with Yankee fans. I can refer to the Yankees w/o referring to the players individually.
This is a thing called hope. You lose it around the same time you find yourself waking up several times in the middle of night to pee. I'm guessing you're in your early 20's and you don't have that problem yet.
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