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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

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   1. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 03, 2010 at 11:41 PM (#3607561)
The thing that really irks my breeches is that the Sox - the ones that have been healthy - have actually outplayed expectations by a reasonable amount. Beltre in particular, but Buchholz has developed and Youkilis has been awesome and Drew's had a nice season and Papi is still Papi-like. With any kind of luck on injuries, we're in the middle of probably the best, most exciting pennant race of the Selig era.

This could have been a truly great season. Instead, this. ####### fuckity crap.
   2. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: August 03, 2010 at 11:47 PM (#3607575)
Yep. Oh well. It was a fun season while it lasted.

Go Rays.
   3. Sonic Youk Posted: August 03, 2010 at 11:56 PM (#3607585)
This is probably my favorite Red Sox team in years. I'm bumming pretty hard about the luck they've had.
   4. Dan Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:06 AM (#3607593)
Yeah, it really sucks to see Youkilis go down, but you have to hope that they can get the surgery done quickly so he can start the healing process and try and be back to full strength by Spring Training.

I like the Rays' odds at beating out the Yankees, but we'll see. I think the depth in their rotation will win out over the Yankees' insane lineup. I mean the Yankees are trotting out Dustin ####### Moseley as a starter, for God's sake. And really, if the Yankees lost another starter for an extended stretch, they could come back in reach for the Sox.
   5. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:11 AM (#3607598)
This is probably my favorite Red Sox team in years.
This, too. I liked 2007, but I think I like 2010 better on a player-by-player level. #######.
   6. Dale Sams Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:16 AM (#3607604)
I say the Sox get everyone healed up, concentrate on signing Beltre and VMart, get some kids up...and blow 10 mill on bringing Manny back for 2 months just for entertainment value. He can platoon Papi.

edit: and you guys are killing the value of the Sox tickets I stuck on Ebay three days ago. Stop it.
   7. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: August 04, 2010 at 09:21 AM (#3607809)
This is probably my favorite Red Sox team in years. I'm bumming pretty hard about the luck they've had.


I agree, Bill Simmons doesn't.
   8. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:38 PM (#3607845)
I don't know that I'd call it my favorite team in years, but I liked this team a lot. It's really hard to see past the hindsight love that I have for 2004.
   9. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:54 PM (#3607853)
I found out about Youk going on the DL while I was at Home Depot last night just before first pitch. In an odd way I found it very calming, it was like "OK, it ain't happening this year, no reason to stress." Let's play Kalish every day, maybe call up Doubront and Bowden for an extended look and if Saltalamacchia's head is right he is probably worth a look too.
   10. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:56 PM (#3607854)
I wish there was a fast-forward button so it could be spring training 2011 with all the good stuff that entails.
   11. karlmagnus Posted: August 04, 2010 at 12:58 PM (#3607856)
I don't like this team, and I think they've been very lucky in the way some of their players have developed. My favorite Sox team was 2002; it's been downhill ever since. And the Lackey acquisition was REALLY annoying, because it made them mess Wake around, so he'll probably now retire without getting Clemens' record.

Furthermore, I bet they trade Ellsbury over the winter, who's my favorite among the young position players. Grrh!
   12. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:04 PM (#3607859)
I don't like this team, and I think they've been very lucky in the way some of their players have developed. My favorite Sox team was 2002; it's been downhill ever since.


Thank goodness you cleared that up, we weren't sure where you stood on the issue. Seems odd to me that a Red Sox fan wouldn't view the World Series championship teams fondly.
   13. Dale Sams Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:09 PM (#3607862)
Winning the World Series destroyed the identity of vast legions of New Englanders.
   14. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:12 PM (#3607867)
Only karlmangus.
   15. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:28 PM (#3607877)
So basically, what, doesn't like Theo and the new regime's approach? Or does he just miss SheAAA?
   16. RJ in TO Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:33 PM (#3607882)
And really, if the Yankees lost another starter for an extended stretch, they could come back in reach for the Sox.

If the Yankees lost another starter, they'd just trade for an extra pitcher making enough money to slide through waivers. Or, being the Yankees, they'd come up with Aaron Small V2.0.
   17. RJ in TO Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:36 PM (#3607885)
Also, at least the Red Sox are doing the right thing in shutting him down and treating him, rather than letting him play through it and risk permanently screwing it up (like the Pirates did with Kendall).
   18. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:44 PM (#3607891)
Smell the troll, people! Stop responding to KM, fer crissakes.

Sox losing their best hitter to an obscure hand injury. Only figures given the number and nature of injuries to the club this year. I can only assume that scurvy will rampage through the clubhouse next month.
   19. Answer Guy Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:44 PM (#3607892)
Good thing they didn't break the bank for a rent-a-player for a shot at this year. Ugh.
   20. Answer Guy Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:45 PM (#3607893)
Furthermore, I bet they trade Ellsbury over the winter, who's my favorite among the young position players.


With his trade value at perhaps an all-time low? I hope not.
   21. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:47 PM (#3607897)
Isn't this a little premature?

I mean the odds aren't great, but as a Yankee fan, I'm not feeling hugely confident the way they've played recently. They'll probably right the ship, but 5.5 G's is not an insurmountablr lead.
   22. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: August 04, 2010 at 01:55 PM (#3607905)
True, but without their best hitter the odds went from "difficult" to "impossibly remote." The dropoff to Lowell from Youkilis is enormous, and getting Ellsbury back isn't enough to bridge that gap.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 02:21 PM (#3607931)
True, but without their best hitter the odds went from "difficult" to "impossibly remote." The dropoff to Lowell from Youkilis is enormous, and getting Ellsbury back isn't enough to bridge that gap.

Sure, but weird stuff can happen. Who knows, Lowell might have a freakishly ridiculous month.

If I were a Sox fan, I wouldn't expect to win, but I wouldn't stop paying attention.
   24. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: August 04, 2010 at 02:30 PM (#3607937)
I'm still gonna watch, for sure. They could surprise me. But rationally it's tough to think they can do it.
   25. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 04, 2010 at 02:44 PM (#3607952)
If I were a Sox fan, I wouldn't expect to win, but I wouldn't stop paying attention.


I don't think anyone here is going to stop paying attention. There is a reality to the situation that can't be ignored though. If the Yankees play .500 the rest of the way the Sox still need to play .600 ball. That's a tall order without Youk (and Pedroia for the next couple of weeks). The reality is that it is more likely that 100 wins, not 95, will be the number which means the Sox have to play .700 baseball the rest of the way.
   26. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 04, 2010 at 02:47 PM (#3607956)
Smell the troll, people! Stop responding to KM, fer crissakes.


I can't help it, he seems so sincere with his hatred. I'm trying to envision him jumping around like a madman like everyone else was when they won the World Series in 2004. How do you get from that to this level of disgust with an organization that keeps on winning regularly? I mean it's not like they went the way of the '97 Marlins or even '01 Diamondbacks, they've been a consistent contender but he is just so determined to be pissed at them, it perplexes me.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 02:58 PM (#3607968)
I can't help it, he seems so sincere with his hatred. I'm trying to envision him jumping around like a madman like everyone else was when they won the World Series in 2004. How do you get from that to this level of disgust with an organization that keeps on winning regularly? I mean it's not like they went the way of the '97 Marlins or even '01 Diamondbacks, they've been a consistent contender but he is just so determined to be pissed at them, it perplexes me.

It's happened to me a couple of times with the Yankees when they've made a bunch of moves I hated.

After 1996, letting Key and Wetteland go really pissed me off. I was actively happy when Rivera gave up the Sandy Alomar HR to blow the ALDS vs. Cleve. But the 1998 team brought me back.

In 2004, I despised letting Pettitte go and the Sheffield signing and Vazquez and Brown trades, to the point that the 2004 collapse against the Red Sox barely phased me. I hated the Randy Johnson aquisition even more. I was off the team until 2007 when Pettitte came back.

karlmangus has held this grudge a long time though.
   28. karlmagnus Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:02 PM (#3608039)
I got spoiled with a team that had Pedro, Manny, Nomar, Damon and Wake, all players I would go a very long way to watch and with an anti-machine approach that I liked. Gradually, time and Theo have removed those players and replaced them with much less interesting ones, and replaced the "idiots" nonconformist meme with a groupthink I don't care for, with even the mild Ellsbury regarded as an outsider.
   29. Answer Guy Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:03 PM (#3608041)
If I were a Sox fan, I wouldn't expect to win, but I wouldn't stop paying attention.


It's not so much "stop paying attention" as it is "not agonize over losses as much, because it's exceedingly unlikely to matter."

In a mostly unrelated point, I also have the sinking feeling the Patriots are done as far as winning or appearing in Super Bowls with teams that resemble the current one.
   30. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:12 PM (#3608056)
In a mostly unrelated point, I also have the sinking feeling the Patriots are done as far as winning or appearing in Super Bowls with teams that resemble the current one.


Yeah, I get the same feeling with the Celtics. They're just too old, and will probably be a much different, worse team next year. It may be a rough couple years for NE sports fans after a pretty nice run.

So it's a good thing I'm moving to Seattle! Home of...a mediocre football team, a crappy baseball team, and no basketball. ####.
   31. villageidiom Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:18 PM (#3608066)
And the Lackey acquisition was REALLY annoying, because it made them mess Wake around, so he'll probably now retire without getting Clemens' record.
I like to think of it as Cy Young's record.

It took this team a month to make up about 5.5 games in the standings earlier this year, and they have two months left to the season. Don't give up yet.
   32. Answer Guy Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:30 PM (#3608085)
It may be a rough couple years for NE sports fans after a pretty nice run.


The Red Sox fundamentals are still sound. They've got a good core of young or prime-age talent, the building blocks of a great rotation, a monster lineup when healthy, and a better-than-average management team.

But they're probably going to be the only game in town as far as league titles are concerned for a while, which will just make the Boston winters that much harder to endure and the fleeting summers something more to savor.
   33. Answer Guy Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:33 PM (#3608089)
Since I live in Baltimore and commute to DC, I have lots of sports teams to choose from if I ever wanted to truly go native, most of which suck, especially the two baseball teams and the one basketball team.
   34. tfbg9 Posted: August 04, 2010 at 04:59 PM (#3608112)
Well, BP has the Sox 27, 19 and 9% to make the playoffs, depending on whether its the straight math, ELO, or Pecota version.
There's that. Which aint much.
   35. tfbg9 Posted: August 04, 2010 at 05:00 PM (#3608114)
km, Wake stinks now. OK? Deal w/it.
   36. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: August 04, 2010 at 05:34 PM (#3608141)
The drop off from Youk to Lowell over a third of the season is what, one win? Calm down people. If you were willing to buy into the Sox as contenders two days ago, this shouldn't drastically change your opinion. BP thinks it'll take 97 wins to get the AL wild card this year -- to reach that, the Sox would need to finish the season 36-19, a .655 clip. Not the most likely outcome, but certainly not impossible. Taking three out of four against the Yanks this weekend would be a good start.
   37. villageidiom Posted: August 04, 2010 at 06:06 PM (#3608171)
BP thinks it'll take 97 wins to get the AL wild card this year -- to reach that, the Sox would need to finish the season 36-19, a .655 clip.

vs CLE: 2-0
at NYY: 2-2
at TOR: 2-1
at TEX: 1-2
vs LAA: 2-1
vs TOR: 2-1
vs SEA: 3-0
at TBR: 1-2
at BAL: 2-1
prior to Labor Day weekend: 17-10

vs CHW: 2-1
vs TBR: 2-1
at OAK: 2-1
at SEA: 2-1
vs TOR: 3-0
vs BAL: 3-0
at NYY: 1-2
at CHW: 2-2
vs NYY: 2-1
September stretch run: 19-9

From today forward: 36-19
Final record: 97-65
   38. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: August 04, 2010 at 07:34 PM (#3608262)
If I were a Sox fan, I wouldn't expect to win, but I wouldn't stop paying attention.


This.
   39. Pingu Posted: August 05, 2010 at 01:21 AM (#3608729)
Papelbon claimed on waivers?
   40. Dale Sams Posted: August 05, 2010 at 01:50 AM (#3608751)
Anyone worth a crap is claimed on waivers arn't they?
   41. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: August 05, 2010 at 02:41 AM (#3608789)
yup
   42. Chip Posted: August 05, 2010 at 02:47 AM (#3608795)
Teams also try to shove their whole roster through waivers in hopes of having the one guy they want to trade slip through unnoticed in all the noise.
   43. vortex of dissipation Posted: August 05, 2010 at 04:00 AM (#3608835)
So it's a good thing I'm moving to Seattle! Home of...a mediocre football team, a crappy baseball team, and no basketball. ####.


Well, the Sounders lead MLS in attendance, and I wouldn't call a 22-4 team that has the best player in the world "no basketball".
   44. Chamran Knebter Posted: August 05, 2010 at 04:26 AM (#3608849)
vs CLE: 2-0


Well, that projection is off to a grand start.

The cop directing traffic at the construction near the Route 2 access in Cambridge asked me for the score when I pulled up to make a right turn (the radio was on very loud and I had the window open). Naturally right as he asks the Indians bust it open.
   45. OCD SS Posted: August 05, 2010 at 12:55 PM (#3608920)
A few thoughts:

1. I wonder if this team, by resting everyone in sight to save them for next year, could lose enough games to get their first round draft pick protected (I doubt it).

2. I can't root for the Rays either, at least not until it's down to them and the Yankees. For now, Go Rangers.
   46. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: August 05, 2010 at 01:15 PM (#3608938)
Rangers


Boo. Boo Rangers. I hate them of old, and it will never go away.
   47. Answer Guy Posted: August 05, 2010 at 01:49 PM (#3608970)
Dropping 2 out of 3 to a woeful Cleveland team is a good sign of what we're about to be treated to.

Go National League.
   48. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: August 05, 2010 at 08:30 PM (#3609279)
Gradually, time and Theo have removed those players and replaced them with much less interesting ones, and replaced the "idiots" nonconformist meme with a groupthink I don't care for,

I generally regard km as sincere but hopelessly deluded. This statement... pushes the bounds of credulity. Pedroia, Youk, Beckett, Papelbon, Varitek, Lester are all key members and/or vocal 'leaders' of the club and can scarcely be regarded as machinist groupthinkers. Buchholz, Nava, Beltre, Hall and Lester again, among others, all have plucky/improbable/quirky characteristics and narratives. I think part of the reason km yearns so deeply for the return of the Duquette years has to do with the phenomenon alluded to in [13] - the gruff, cynical, perpetual-loser Red Sox fan persona is so deeply a part of him that he barely wants to acknowledge that things have changed for RSN.
   49. karlmagnus Posted: August 05, 2010 at 09:15 PM (#3609307)
If you find Papelbon as interesting as Pedro, good luck to you, but I must respectfully disagree.
   50. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: August 05, 2010 at 09:40 PM (#3609318)
Not what I said. Obviously.

Pedro has been the most outstanding - in every way - Sox of my lifetime. Just because there can only be one Pedro doesn't mean that every other team ever is going to bore me.
   51. villageidiom Posted: August 05, 2010 at 10:05 PM (#3609327)
Actually, I think karlmagnus is becoming more reasonable. In the past he would've said "Theo has removed those players" rather than "time and Theo have removed those players".
   52. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 05, 2010 at 10:18 PM (#3609335)
I've said it before, it bears repeating: KM is holed up on some island in Nantucket Sound, refusing to accept that Dan Duquette<< Theo Epstein. It's a lonely life, but our man here is "dedicated". Ahem.

Nomar had an "anti-machine" approach? He was one of the most OCD player I've ever watched play. I loved him pre-2004, but he had to go. Refusing 4/60 million has to be one of the biggest stupid and arrogant mistakes a player has ever made. Has he made 60 million total since then?
   53. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 05, 2010 at 10:23 PM (#3609336)
Giving up on this season is not "pants pissing", btw. Feel free to express realistic pessimism here. IMO, Youk has been their MVP since '08. It's a tough loss, one they can't afford right now, running out Patterson, MacDonald, Nava, Hall, etc.
   54. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:14 PM (#3609353)
The 2004 Red Sox were a pretty special bunch. The Idiots, Manny being Manny, Pedro at the height of his quotability and making the most of his diminished talent, Schilling poking at the Yankees, Big Papi, Bellhorn, Pokey, I mean, we're never going to see another club that much fun in our lifetimes. The fact that they had the greatest baseball season ever on top of all that, I mean, jaysis. We got spoiled.

I know this isn't what karl said - I don't know how the 2002 club could possibly compare to the 2004 club in terms of fun-to-watchability - but I do think it's fair to say that the Red Sox have grown steadily more corporate and less awesome over the years.

This isn't to say they're a bunch of proto-fascist automatons like the Yankees, of course. 2010 has been a step up from recent clubs, in my wholly objective opinion. I love Pedroia and Papelbon especially, Papi is still here, new guys like Beltre and Martinez are fun, the AAAA platoon squad has been great to root for, and I enjoy having even mostly boring minor league products like Lester, Buchholz, Bard, and Ellsbury doing their thing. But I think there's a pretty big gap in fun between this club and 2004.
   55. Spaceman Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:25 PM (#3609358)
Giving up on this season is not "pants pissing"

I don't know what that even means, but giving up on this season should be reserved for those more inclined to bandwagon jumping, anyway. It's a team game, folks, and as such, no individual player should ever be the difference between winning and losing. Youks is a great, great player, but he is only one. I don't care for any excuses; if the team really wants it, they can have it.

Go into NY and ####### sweep. Do it.
   56. OCD SS Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:28 PM (#3609359)
I know it doesn't work that way, but I feel like this season ought to cover the Sox for injuries for a couple years...
   57. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:38 PM (#3609366)
It's a team game, folks, and as such, no individual player should ever be the difference between winning and losing.

Aren't like half the best players on the team injured?
   58. Spaceman Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:47 PM (#3609369)
Yes, they are. But that's very bad luck, and luck has a way of evening out over the long run. Most will be back soon. They will have a choice.
   59. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:50 PM (#3609371)
But that's very bad luck, and luck has a way of evening out over the long run.

Depends how long. The shorter the time available to them, the less likely it is to even out over that span. And two months isn't that much time.
   60. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:51 PM (#3609372)
I don't know what that even means

You're new here. I assure you I'm no bandwagon jumper. I believe the BTF Wiki has a link to a retrosheet page of the first game I saw in person, at Fenway, in 1967. Maybe I was a bandwagon jumper then, but, I was 9, so, I could be forgiven for that.

They've just lost two games to CLEVELAND. At home. This is not a team heading in the right direction.

"pants pissing" was coined by me here in '07 when many Red Sox fans were worried that the team wouldn't make the playoffs. I think it started in July, and I spent the rest of the season trying to keep those worriers off the ledge.

This year is over, competitively speaking. I'll still watch, but, it is over.
   61. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:53 PM (#3609375)
I believe the BTF Wiki has a link to a retrosheet page of the first game I saw in person, at Fenway, in 1967. Maybe I was a bandwagon jumper then, but, I was 9, so, I could be forgiven for that.

Apes are noted for their leaping abilities.
   62. Spaceman Posted: August 05, 2010 at 11:57 PM (#3609377)
They've just lost two games to CLEVELAND. At home. This is not a team heading in the right direction.

Because they lost two games against a team they should had beat? Nonsense. Some hangover after Youks loss should be expected, but there's still 2 months to go.
   63. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:03 AM (#3609382)
Hey, Joe, may I remind you that the Yankees also lost their cleanup hitter, who was replaced by some mL callup now batting .807 on the year, and playing a terrible 3B?

No ####### excuses. Sweep the clowns.
   64. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:07 AM (#3609385)
It's not nonsense. It's because they have half a team out there now. They have lost their 1B, their 2B, their CF, their LF, their RF plays sporadically, their catcher/1B isn't 100% and may not be until next year, their bullpen is inconsistent.

They can pull it together, and I can also hit the lottery for millions tomorrow night.

And it's not even as if they have their destiny in their own hands. If the Yankees and Rays don't completely collapse, it's over.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. This ain't my first observation of a pennant race, boyo.
   65. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:15 AM (#3609389)
Joe, I don't even think their coming back is unlikely. They've had such piss-poor luck, they deserve a run like COL had 2 years ago. And, hell, I don't believe such a run will even be necessary. Regardless of their record, I am not impressed with the Yankees. I don't like their pitching, for one, and anyone guessing how they would be doing at this juncture with Arod and Jeter laying eggs, would had guessed 'poorly'. They are due. The Sox are due. I ain't giving up on the season.
   66. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:16 AM (#3609391)
And it's not even as if they have their destiny in their own hands. If the Yankees and Rays don't completely collapse, it's over.

This is their big problem. They have the two best teams (by record) in baseball ahead of them. And well ahead of them. They have to outplay two excellent teams by a substantial margin and they only have one third of the season to do so. Not impossible, but quite unlikely.

I'm pleased, as a fan of the Yankees, but part of me must admit that it would have been extremely compelling to see New York, Tampa, and a full-strength Boston battling it out for two playoff spots.
   67. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:21 AM (#3609395)
Nobody is due anything. Everything is earned, and you don't earn a playoff spot with half a team, not in the AL East.
   68. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:23 AM (#3609399)
Every year we hear about how the Yankees aren't impressive, yet most years they're amongst the league leaders in wins.


Well, Beltre just hit a grand slam. GO RED SOX. PRINT THE PLAYOFF TICKETS!!
   69. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:24 AM (#3609401)
I don't like their pitching, for one, and anyone guessing how they would be doing at this juncture with Arod and Jeter laying eggs, would had guessed 'poorly'.

Turn that around. If Rodriguez and Jeter start playing as well as your reasonable expectations prior to the season led you to believe, then the Yankees will be even tougher. Those two are just as "due" as the Red Sox are. Which is to say, as my esteemed colleague Mr. Bivens implies, that "due" is an illusion.
   70. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:27 AM (#3609404)
Let's not exaggerate. In a weeks time, only Youks and once-every-5-days Tek will be missing. That is not half the team.
   71. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:31 AM (#3609407)
You can't reasonably expect the returning players to be 100%. Ellsbury looks awful at the plate. Martinez had been ok, but not 100%. By the time they find their footing, it will be Labor Day and they'll be 10 games out of the WC.
   72. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:31 AM (#3609408)
Those two are just as "due" as the Red Sox are

I respect that point. I still believe they're too 1)hurt 2)old to do so, but those two playing better would not be shocking to me.
   73. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:31 AM (#3609409)
Let's not exaggerate. In a weeks time, only Youks and once-every-5-days Tek will be missing. That is not half the team.

And, unless they make up some ground in that week (which, while entirely possible, will be hampered by the absence of Youkilis and Pedroia), they're looking at making up a 6ish game deficit in less than fifty games. And making it up against the two best teams (to that point) in baseball. It's not an insuperable challenge, but it's a very difficult one.
   74. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:34 AM (#3609410)
You can't reasonably expect the returning players to be 100%

I don't and they aren't. But to repeat, there are 2 months to go.
   75. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:36 AM (#3609411)
Less one week, already. Time flies.
   76. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:40 AM (#3609413)
Let's put it this way:

Do you think the Yankees are likely to go 30-25 (or the Rays to go 30-24) in their remaining games? Considering how well they've played thus far, that seems like probably a conservative estimate.

In order to merely tie that record, the Red Sox would need to go 36-18 the rest of the way. Could the Red Sox play .666 ball the rest of the way? Sure they could (they are pure evil, after all). Is it likely, especially with their best hitter out for the season? Not terribly. Should they give up? Absolutely not, but let's not delude ourselves here.
   77. nick swisher hygiene Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:44 AM (#3609416)
you know, the Sox don't NEED to catch NY and Tampa--due to recent innovations in the MLB playoff system, catching one of those two teams will very likely suffice...
   78. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 12:46 AM (#3609419)
you know, the Sox don't NEED to catch NY and Tampa--due to recent innovations in the MLB playoff system, catching one of those two teams will very likely suffice...

Indeed, but those teams are essentially tied, so the Red Sox have about the same problem in catching either. It would surprise me if the AL Wildcard won fewer than 97 games, considering where New York and Tampa are right now.
   79. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:04 AM (#3609422)
No, let's put it this way. How many games were the '07 Sox up on the Yankees at this point? And how close did the two teams eventually get?

I'm guessing here: 7-8 games up August 1st, 1-1.5 games up with a week, maybe 2, to go. So, the Yankees did what you Joe is claiming impossible just 3 years ago with a pitching staff of Pettitte, Wang, Mussina, and, who else, Igawa? 1st year Hughes? Clemens corpse?... garbage. Does this make any sense to you? Come on, man, pull those big-boy pants up, we're talking 6.5 games.
   80. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:13 AM (#3609426)
It's not that they can't; it's that they probably won't, especially now that they'll be short their best hitter (and are replacing him with the moldering remains of Mike Lowell). Crazier things have happened; crazier things will happen. But don't bet on crazy.
   81. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:05 AM (#3609440)
No, let's put it this way. How many games were the '07 Sox up on the Yankees at this point? And how close did the two teams eventually get?


It would help considerably if the Yankees stopped trying, as the Sox did at the tail end of 07. It's probably doubtful though, since the Yankees, unlike the 07 Sox, are still in a race.
   82. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:06 AM (#3609441)
How many games were the '07 Sox up on the Yankees at this point?


Up 7 when Manny went on the DL, up 1.5 when he came back. Amazing what losing your best hitter can do.
   83. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:18 AM (#3609450)
Matsuzaka is the Sox 5th starter. That is, starter #5, the implication of which is that there are 4 better starters starting. That said, you people are insane if you believe this team cannot overcome some silly 6.5 6 game deficit. ####### insane.

Go Sox!

Go to NYC
Sweep. Teach them wins can't be bought.
Pay forward from Youks
   84. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:22 AM (#3609453)
It's probably doubtful though, since the Yankees, unlike the 07 Sox, are still in a race.

Say what?
Amazing what losing your best hitter can do.

Money talks, pal. Meet the new, improved and reinfused Adrian Beltre.
   85. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:24 AM (#3609455)
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Red Sox cannot overcome the deficit. They are suggesting that they are unlikely to. If they do, kudos to them, but the safe money is on Tampa and New York.

Adrian Beltre is a fine player having an excellent season. He is not in the same class as Kevin Youkilis when it comes to batting.
   86. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:30 AM (#3609461)
I do believe he is when money's at stake.
   87. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 06, 2010 at 02:34 AM (#3609467)
I do believe he is when money's at stake.

Tell it to the Mariners.
   88. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 06, 2010 at 03:30 AM (#3609497)
84 - Even if the 07 Yankees caught the sox both teams were in the playoffs either way.

The problem right now isn't that they can't play better than NY/TB the rest of the way, the problem is they have to make up six games.

Possible? Yes
Likely? No
   89. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 06, 2010 at 03:44 AM (#3609507)
Say what?


Toward the end of the 07 season, it became pretty apparent that the Red Sox were going to be in the playoffs. The Tigers and M's started to fade, leaving just four teams fighting for four playoff berths. If the Yankees had managed to overtake the Red Sox for the AL East lead, the Sox were still safely in the playoffs. The Sox appeared aware of this, as their insistence on giving Eric Gagne the ball in high leverage situations, among other questionable moves, seemed to indicate.

If the 10 Yankees (or Rays, for that matter) were to take the same approach with regards to the Red Sox, that club would be in jeopardy of missing the postseason entirely. Thus, gaining that ground may be a little more difficult for the Red Sox in 2010 than it was for the 07 Yankees.

I'll be rooting like hell for the Sox, but I'm not expecting anything. But as I'm not one to deter youthful optimism, go right ahead and keep believing it's right there for the taking.
   90. Dale Sams Posted: August 06, 2010 at 04:19 AM (#3609523)
Let's talk about Beltre. How much is he going to get next year and from whom?
   91. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 06, 2010 at 04:20 AM (#3609524)
I've been looking at the pitching matchups for the upcoming four-gamer, and I had to say that it isn't as much of a mismatch as I had thought. The Sox have a clear edge in starting pitching in every game, save the Lackey/Sabathia tilt on Saturday. If this lineup can find a way to score some runs, it might be a 3-1 series.
   92. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 06, 2010 at 04:21 AM (#3609525)
Pirates - four years, $75 million.
   93. Dale Sams Posted: August 06, 2010 at 04:28 AM (#3609528)
Come on, man, pull those big-boy pants up, we're talking 6.5 games.


Spaceman, I love you. and I'll bet Vegas loves you too. Especially the roulette guys.
   94. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 06, 2010 at 05:04 AM (#3609534)
Amazing what losing your best hitter can do.


Money talks, pal. Meet the new, improved and reinfused Adrian Beltre.


Yes, because that year Beltre wasn't the second best hitter on the squad, it was some guy named Ortiz who posted a thoroughly pedestrian .332 /.445/.621/1.066 batting line -- almost 200 points of OPS higher than Manny's in fact.

But it's cute to see a fanboy on this site.
   95. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 06, 2010 at 10:45 AM (#3609563)
I've been looking at the pitching matchups for the upcoming four-gamer, and I had to say that it isn't as much of a mismatch as I had thought. The Sox have a clear edge in starting pitching in every game, save the Lackey/Sabathia tilt on Saturday. If this lineup can find a way to score some runs, it might be a 3-1 series.

Yeah, and while it's natural that you're concentrating on what's happened to so many of your best players, you may have missed a few recent things about the Yankees:

Sabathia is in a funk. Not a complete collapse by any means, but giving up 3-4 runs a start and not going as deep as he was. This is not the second half C.C. of recent years.

Burnett has been wildly inconsistent, and in his last start had the worst inning of his career.

Hughes has leveled off to the point of becoming a six inning pitcher. He nibbles maddeningly and gives up home runs like crazy at home.

Vasquez has picked it up, but he's still prone to that one bad inning.

Jeter is having the worst offensive year of his career, and that after getting off to a good start in April.

A-Rod is almost back to where he was in the 05-07 postseason, although maybe with all that 600 BS out of the way he'll relax a bit.

Gardner is quickly coming down to Earth. Cervelli came back to Earth months ago.

Right now the Yankees are being carried by three players: Swish, Tex, and Cano. And even Tex is still prone to mini-funks where he can't hit a changeup no matter how many times he sees it.

All this isn't to say that they're as bad off as a team that seems to have lost about 80% of its best players for long stretches. But no matter what the current W-L record might say, if Pettitte doesn't come off the DL and return to his previous form, and the rest of the starters don't pick it up, I wouldn't like their chances against Tampa Bay in the postseason. It may have been smart from a longer perspective not to go after Lee, but right now it's hurting them. That .918 WHIP of his would sure come in handy at this point.

And believe it or not, I'm as saddened by Youk's departure as most of you are. I'm like rlr in #66, in that I was really looking forward to a great three way race among the three best teams in baseball. #### injuries.
   96. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 11:48 AM (#3609571)
Post 95 is why this place is still great - realism takes over fanboyism 95% of the time.
   97. dave h Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:38 PM (#3609629)
This was mentioned but glossed over - the Sox just need to pass the worst of the Rays and the Yankees, and that is not the same as having to pass both of them. They're underdogs certainly, but winning would be that much sweeter.
   98. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:41 PM (#3609633)
Yeah, and while it's natural that you're concentrating on what's happened to so many of your best players, you may have missed a few recent things about the Yankees:


His best players are also your best players Andy.
   99. Spaceman Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:43 PM (#3609635)
I'll be rooting like hell for the Sox, but I'm not expecting anything

There ya go. Ditto, I don't expect anything either but I will root like hell for them.

I know I came off as fanboyish last night but I do have your same reservations. Making the playoffs will not be an easy thing to do, with or w/o Youks. But I really believe in this team, and have sensed all year that they're destined for greater than 3rd place. I don't know how they're going to do it, I just sense that they will.

realism takes over fanboyism 95% of the time

I agree with everything St Nick wrote. His examples have a lot to do with why I'm more optimistic on the Sox chances than most. But I wasn't about to write them. Last week I was well lambasted by having the nerve to post that I hated Posada's game. Mostly for anecdotal reasons, but I just hate the man's game. That was enough for me, I'd rather not participate in any flame war with Yankee fans. I can refer to the Yankees w/o referring to the players individually.
   100. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: August 06, 2010 at 01:48 PM (#3609640)
I don't know how they're going to do it, I just sense that they will.


This is a thing called hope. You lose it around the same time you find yourself waking up several times in the middle of night to pee. I'm guessing you're in your early 20's and you don't have that problem yet.
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