In which I listen to Theo Epstein’s public statements
Theo gave an interview to WEEI this morning, helpfully transcribed at the Globe Extra Bases blog. I like what he had to say about the losing streak.
On if the bad play becomes contagious throughout the team:
“It seems that way. It’s hard to tell whether it actually is. It probably is to a small extent and beyond that it’s just seems that way when so many things aren’t going well. I do think that when you have a run of bad starting pitching, it does obviously impact the bullpen, and has a little bit of effect on the offense as well. They go into at-bats early in the game feeling like they’re down 5-0, sometimes they are, sometimes it just feels that way, and it’s hard to have, especially with our kind of approach, you need to be patient, you need to have good at-bats, let the other guys knock you in, sort of the group offense mentality. Hard to have those kind of at-bats when you feel like you need to put a crooked number on the board all the time. I’m sure that’s the way it is, guys start looking at each other wondering who’s going to step up, sure. When you’re playing well, we won two out of every three games over four months, there’s a contagiousness to that when you’re expecting things to go well, and when you’re on the other side of the coin, sure, you’re expecting things to go poorly.
“The thing we have going for us here, beyond the fact that we’re a very good team just not playing like it right now, is that we’ve pulled ourselves out of this before. April was no walk in the park, different from September, you’ve got the length of the season to fix things, but you were around the team then, you remember what that was like, That was not fun. And this team did a great job of pulling itself out of that, so we certainly can do it again and have to. We’ve been punched in the mouth here a little bit, it’s how we respond that matters.”
As he says, team-wide slumps really do happen. And to a certain degree, you can see that happening with the Boston Red Sox. However, it’s extremely difficult, even from within the organization, to distinguish a run of bad play that happened to occur from a real choking event. Further, both runs of bad play and real choking events occur, and then end. Teams start playing well after playing poorly, or teams mentally right the ship and win a bunch of games. It’s certainly possible that the Sox are really choking and will continue to choke, but baseball experience teaches us that there are other explanations and other expectations which tend to be more likely to be correct.
I should address the “our pitchers all suck” dilemma. They do, and there isn’t a really good solution. Putting Aceves in the rotation is a good idea, but it doesn’t solve the entire problem. However, the Sox have had Lackey and Miller and Wakefield in the rotation for most of the season. In games started by Lackey, Wakefield, Miller, Weiland, and Aceves, the Red Sox have gone 34-30. It’s not because those guys are good pitchers - other than maybe Aceves, they ain’t - but it’s because bad pitchers pitch well sometimes, and sometimes a great offense wins games regardless of the pitching. The Red Sox were a Marco Scutaro check swing away from winning Weiland’s start on Saturday, for instance.
As Epstein says, elsewhere in the interview, the solution is simple: the Sox have to play good ball. It’s certainly well into the realm of possibility that they won’t play well enough to win the Wild Card - the chances are probably now into the 7-to-1 or 4-to-1 range that isn’t terribly unlikely anymore. So hell yes I’m worried. Hell no the games haven’t been any fun. But you still usually win when you have the better hand against a draw going to the last card, and you still usually win when you have a 3 or 4 game lead with three weeks to play.
Matt Clement of Alexandria
Posted: September 12, 2011 at 04:38 PM |
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(BPro W3%)
RS .58, TB .54: 6%
(Sox bad, Rays great)
RS .48, TB .60: 27%
(Sox not so good, Rays good)
RS .51, TB .56: 15%
Do with that what you will.
And thanks Matt for making another thread as the others are getting clogged up. So does anyone think giving Tazawa a couple of starts against the O's is a good idea? Or does that make too much sense?
*3-1 against the Sox if that matters.
1) The Rays play a tougher schedule than the Sox, with four against the Yankees while the Sox are playing the O's
2) The Sox have home field advantage for their games against the Rays, a ~4% advantage per game over the expected record
I do account for ties - the event of a tie is counted as a 50% chance of losing to the Rays.
As SG points out in the other thread, where he uses superior modeling and actual computer programming instead of my excel fiddling, there is also the chance of a scenario where the Rays and Sox both make the playoffs. There are 10 head-to-head games remaining for the two clubs vs the Yankees.
I don't see why not. At this point Tazawa or Doubront or hell, Anthony Ranaudo is worth a shot. I mean, I'm sure they can put the team in a 4-0 hole just as easily as anyone else. I think there is a "dance with who brung ya'" argument to be had on the idea that Wake etc...are likely to pitch better but I wouldn't hate going to Tazawa here.
With the way NY is playing, they might take the division with 11-6. They've just gone 3-10; no way they are going 3-10 over the next 13 games. And with 17 games to go, I'd much rather have the 3 game lead, then be chasing like Tampa. Every loss they suffer is like 2 games gone. If Tampa goes all Rockies and pulls a 20-1 stretch, well there's nothing you can do about that.
I also think they have been overly cautious with Beckett. Thinking they could cruise to the wild card and rest him until the playoffs. If he's needed to help clinch, he will pitch.
My girlfriend is from Massachusetts, her grandfather is from Worcester. He was 95 years old.
He was diagnosed with cancer, again, this June. It got pretty bad pretty quick. sometime over the summer, his children pitched in and purchased a brick with his name and whatnot. One of his daughters took a picture of home with the brick and sent it back to the red sox, with a letter telling the Sox about his story, how he first attended a game at Fenway in the 20s, and he has been a fan for a very long time, etc.
The Sox tracked down his daughter (she did not have include her phone number) and called and offered him a behind the scenes private tour, including the field, press box, green monster seats and clubhouse.
His kids were all very touched. It was too late though. He died about 3 hours before they called. The Sox were actually talking to her and the rest of his children while boxing his things at the room in the home. The Sox rep expressed their sympathies and extended the invite to the entire family, and I would be shocked if their were not flowers when we get to the funeral home on Thursday.
I have never been a fan of John Henry, and no one is a fan of Lucky Luciano, but I must give credit where credit is due. Cheers, it was a very classy move by a few very kind individuals in the Red Sox organization. The family, especially my girlfriends' father, is very, very touched.
I thought I would post this in Sox Therapy, so you guys could get some nice news about the team. Good for the Sox.
Before the season, if God had told you that on September 12, you had a three-game lead for a playoff spot, would you take it?
I have been been intensely critical of Lucchino as a frontman, pol, and media mouthpiece; I know people here in SD who dealt with him closely during the stadium "fight" and he was described as behaving as you would expect.
But, as I have said several times here, the guy is also a brilliant executive, very shrewd, hires good people, and lets them work. Even his enemies out here knew that. So, that Boston has people in place who would grasp stuff like this and handle it with class and compassion does not surprise me at all.
Sympathies to your GF's GF--and hey, he did see Boston hoist the trophy twice.
Absolutely, without question, no doubter. If someone(not god please) had told me after the 2-10 start that we'd have a 3 game lead on Sept. 12, I would have responded as I normally do, with something like, "you're sh*tting me, right?"
#11, good story and a nice full life of 95, you can't really complain about that.
If he said 3 game lead for the division, then yes.
You may all feel free to credit me when they resume winning tonight.
It's actually my fault. Somewhere, sometime, I said "If we..ok, when we make the playoffs...". I felt dumb saying it and it never should have happened.
- Youk back in the lineup tonight
- Beckett will start Thursday or Friday
- Bedard "could" start one of the doubleheader games on Monday
- Probably not likely to help in 2011 but Buchholz will throw off a mound later this week
- Call ups; Tazawa, Anderson, Miller, Iglesias, Gathright. Spears DFA, Drew to 60 day DL
Also,Bobby Jenks has an embolism that "is not career threatening" and a fairly short but interesting bit on Adrian Gonzalez.
Now reads 22%, 11%, 4%.
We ain't out of the woods yet.
I'm gonna change my name to Cassandra.
j/k, seriously, adding Beckett to the rotation does wonders. Now if they'd go to a 4 man (though I have no clue who the other 2 should be) I'd feel better.
Are you the guy who said "I don't see Gonzalez hitting more than 25 hr's"? Because you are still probably wrong
..I get mad when people say, "The Sox are too good not to make the playoffs". Really? Well maybe the Sox can carry the Dalai's golfclubs and on their deathbeds get total consciousness too.
You know what the Sox's record is when the give up 5 or more runs a game? Not good enough to make the playoffs. I don't think they have enough of a cushion to make it even if we restrict it to 5-7 runs a game.
So in other words...stop giving up 5 GD runs in the first three innings!!!
I'd rather go 5 man and have Beckett/Lester 100% on their start days. The Sox don't need to be great, just mediocre the next two weeks. I'm still skeptical they can do that but a shift to a four man rotation is overaggressive.
No mention of your non-stop touting of Honus Lowrie?
I feel really bad about this. To be clear, I think the only two idiots of the opinion that the Sox aren't getting in are Dale and me (maybe Phil). There is general concern over recent play but I think most fans are confident that they will get in.
It's not a "red Sox fans" thing, it's a Dale and Jose thing.
I am confident that they will make it to the post-season. I am not confident in them winning any series in the playoffs.
I worry about unlikely events, and maybe that's a part of the Sox fan DNA, but I don't know exactly what you're asking about. Does "confidence" mean repressing or not experiencing worry about possible bad outcomes? Does "confidence" mean willingness to bet on the outcome? I've done the latter, I'm not going to do the former.
He got hurt!!!
Nothing. But they currently don't have that healthy front three.
We were all stunned by that development.
I went off on the non-SABR assertion that players *can* be injury prone...in a forum that is very SABR friendly. It just doesn't seem very scientific. Are they cursed? Do they have weak joints? Is there some kind of MD or even MS-lite thing going on here causing muscle weakness? Is it an actual physical malady or is it "JD Drew doesn't play unless he feels 90% or better"? If it is physical, shouldn't we be trying to test for this kind of thing?
How do you differentiate between injury-prone and bad luck?
- physical weakness of bones/muscles
- low pain threshhold
- comparatively low athletic ability leading to pulls and strains (relative to MLB players, not the public at large)
- some form of genetics
that doesn't mean those ARE the reasons, but they are possible reasons. You're right, it's possible that it's just bad luck but I think it's fair in the case of a guy like Lowrie to argue that until he proves he can play six consecutive months of baseball without a limb falling off that he should not be counted on to do that.
We see pitchers who outperform/underperform their peripherals regularly. I thin Buerhle is one, Beckett another and just because we cannot figure out why that happens when something happens regularly it's folly to dismiss it out of hand.
It would have been hilarious if the Sox had worked into his contract to pay him less every even-numbered year.
I still say they should trade Beckett this offseason before another even-year stinker ... and then steal C.C. from NY.
MGL made the argument that there are no injury-prone players several years ago. Steve Treder made a bet with him - he would select a group of players he believed would be injury prone, and if they missed significantly more time than the average player, he would win the bet. Steve won in a landslide. That bet was not a fully scientific study, but it accords with our everyday experience, I think, and it is a good piece of evidence.
I mean if we were having a beer and I asked you "will the Sox get into the post-season this year?" you would reply something like "I am pretty confident they will but anything could happen."
I think that is a reasonable position for Sox fans to take (and I see some of you have).
/facepalm
That April.
[sigh] Aceves won't ever get a start, will he?
This sets up Lackey/Bedard as the pitchers for the DH on Monday against the Orioles; I suppose they figure they'll need Aceves for about 10 innings over both games...
See Johnson, Nick.
And then, you can all thank me, or know in your hearts that you are ingrates. I almost never win these bets.
Why don't players get a running start when tagging up from third? There's no rule you can't set up a few feet behind the third base bag and it really wouldn't be difficult to time where you're either on the base when the ball is caught or a foot behind it. You don't even have to be looking, the third base coach could say "Go!".
Somebody should look into the diference between having a running lead and no running lead.
enh...too much trouble...nevermind. Back to the 'outside the box think tank'.
IIRC, that was one of the little "tricks" that John McGraw introduced, but suprisingly (to me, at least) people reacted negatively, and there is actually a rule against it.
26 and counting now...
Anyone know why Gonzalez is out of the game?
I didn't know there was a rule against it but I think it would be a bad idea even if there wasn't. I think it would be a bit difficult to get the running start, be watching the ball and not miss the base all while timing the play to make sure you don't give away the benefit of the running start by hitting the bag too late.
Unless a miracle occurs we'll be the road team in any series, which means the game would be either 3 or 4 at Fenway October 3/4, I figure...
It's ok I wear brown undies now - I bought 14 pairs last week. Pants pissing is over rated - I prefer to just #### myself watching the constant injury updates and tough losses lately.
Probably best for all if I skip chatter tomorrow.
See you on the other side.
I'm not sure, I've entered every lottery for postseason and for Monster/Yankees tickets but I have never won. I think you would have a good chance at getting tix. It sucks that the fee is $13.50 per ticket on top of the inflated face value.
Maybe Tampa will lose today, there's always a chance. I mean after all Baltimore does have Wieters and look how that worked out yesterday!
I still reckon we'll split with Tampa the next 4 games.
No Tobor he, at least not of late.
And yes, I agree, I am nuts.
Emily Litella voice: Nevermind.
edit: And one little problem with the O's playing the Rays this tough...I assure you they arn't gonna roll over for us either.
(BPro W3%)
RS .56, TB .51: 3%
(Sox bad, Rays great)
RS .48, TB .60: 20%
(Sox not so good, Rays good)
RS .51, TB .56: 10%
A small improvement across the board. With the Sox planning to have Beckett and Bedard back, I think we should consider a fourth projected WP scenario, in which both teams are good.
(Sox good, Rays good)
RS .55, TB .56: 5%
As has been noted, the Angels have been winning like gangbusters and are now only a half game back of Tampa. There is now in play a scenario where the Sox beat the Rays, but both teams stumble badly enough to let the Angels catch them. The Angels schedule - Oak, Bal, Tor, Oak, Tex - is not terribly difficult. I don't think it's a terribly high probability (a hot streak by the Angels might catch the Rangers first), but it's worth noting.
I agree, I think Francona has had a sub-par season for the in-game stuff.
This generally seems to be focused on two issues;
outfielder usage (platoons specifically)
sticking with starters to long
Regarding the outfielder usage I think a cautious approach with the unproven Reddick had some validity. At this point I think the gloves should be off but McDonald has been pretty good in the second half (.806 OPS) so it's hard to be too critical of that.
The pitchers is the bigger issue. I've never disputed the conventional wisdom that he sticks with the starters too long but I think it's an issue begging for a good study. The other thing is that even being cautious two of his top three relievers have completely broken down (Bard and Albers) as the season progressed. I think not going to Papelbon last week was indefensible, yesterday less so though I wanted him to do it.
But I'd love to see something more systematic on Tito's handling of the pitchers. I think it would be interesting.
And Kyle Weiland starts tonight. Awesome.
8/1 Lackey gets to 2 out in the 7th, but gave up 3 in the 6th, and 5 overall. Morales faces 1 batter with success. Bard faces 4 batters, 3 scoring. Williams and Albers clean up the mess.
8/2 Beckett goes 6, gives up 2. Morales is harmless for 2 innings, and Papelbon saves it on 10 pitches.
8/3 Wakefield goes 6.2, giving up 3 runs. He passes one runner on to Williams, who pitches 1.1 without incident. Papelbon saves it on 14 pitches.
8/4 Welcome, Bedard. 5 IP, 3 runs. Morales lights a match, facing 3 batters, 2 scoring. Aceves finishes the 6th. Miller is called on to pitch the rest of the way, but gives up 2 runs and has 2 runners on in the 9th before Wheeler bails him out.
8/5 Lester goes 6, giving up 3. Albers throws 2, Williams and Aceves split the 9th, none of them giving up a run.
8/6 Lackey follows Lester's example: 6 IP, 3 runs. Aceves keeps the 7th quiet. Bard gives up a run in the 8th, and Wheeler pitches the 9th with a little alarm but no runs.
8/7 Beckett goes 6, gives up 1 run. Albers starts the 7th, gets 2 outs and gives 1 run, passes another runner on to Morales who walks the bases full but gets out of it. Wheeler pitches the 8th, Papelbon the 9th, and Bard the 10th, each giving up no runs.
8/8 Wakefield goes 7, giving up 5 runs, all by the 5th inning. Aceves gives up the tying run in the 8th, and Papelbon cruises to a save in the 9th.
8/9 Bedard goes 5 again, giving up 2. Albers pitches the 6th and allows 3 baserunners and 1 run. Morales gets 2 of 3 batters in the 7th, leaving the one baserunner for Bard, who cruises in 1.1. Papelbon saves in the 9th.
8/10 Lester goes 7.1, giving up 4 runs, 2 of them in the 8th. Aceves enters needing to get one out; he faces 4 and allows them all to reach, one scoring, and gets bailed out by Ellsbury's throw home to record one out. Miller finishes the 8th without giving up any more runs. There is no 9th.
OK, in that 10 day stretch, what do we see?
1. The starters other than Bedard seemed to go a decent distance into the game. Still, only twice did a starter complete the 7th.
2. Even in retrospect it's hard to say Francona generally had a slow hook. Do you remove Lackey after 5 on 8/1? Do you even have anyone warming? With Wakefield on 8/8, most of the damage is done early. The 8/10 game with Lester is probably the best candidate for slow-hook syndrome (SHS).
3. The bullpen other than Papelbon were inconsistent. Bard was not good in two outings, and good in two. Aceves was generally good but had one horrible outing. Likewise for Morales, Albers, and Miller. In many games it appeared that Francona had to use one more reliever than would otherwise be necessary.
I might not be able to get back to this the rest of the day, so if anyone has the time and patience they can feel free to post the 8/11 to 8/20 stretch. Otherwise I'll get back to this later.
a) There have been (IMO) very few egregious before-the-fact moments.
b) Francona has a very good track record.
c) He and his coaches know their pitchers a heck of a lot better than any of you.
This is not to say he should be impervious to criticism or second guessing - but when things are going bad for the team, the manager almost always looks bad. Doesn't necessarily mean he's been ####### up left and right.
I am with Hugh - trying to stay positive. Trying to remember there's nothing I can do no matter how poorly they play or how frustratingly they lose. All we can do is root for them and hope for the best.
I'm assuming Aceves will be unavailable tonight, and they're likely to stay away from Bard, which leaves... Papelbon for 3 outs and... [sigh]
I think Francona has had a bad year in terms of in-game management, not just a bad month. I still think he's a good manager, probably the best Sox manager of my lifetime, and I don't think he should be fired or anything.
8/13 - Beckett goes 5IP allowing 5 runs (all in the first), Albers/Morales/Aceves finish up
8/14 - Wake CG loss allowing 5 runs. Nothing after the 6th on just 94 pitches.
8/16 (Game One) - Lester goes 7 giving up 1 run. Bard and Papelbon replace Lester after 113 pitches and pitch shutout relief for the win.
8/16 (Game Two) - Bedard goes 6 IP allowing 3 runs (1 earned). He gets replaced by Albers after 102 pitches and Albers pukes on himself (with some help from comical defense) allowing 3 runs in a second inning of work.
8/17 - Lackey goes 6.2 allowing 4 runs. With one on and two out in the 7th he faces Longoria (BB) and Zobrist (RBI 2B) after already throwing 116 pitches. He probably should have been lifted there. Aceves/Wheeler finish up.
8/18 - Beckett goes 7 allowing 3 early runs. Bard/Papelbon finish up and I blow out birthday candles in celebration.
8/19 - Miller goes 5.1 allowing just 1 run. After just 83 pitches Aceves comes in to get Butler/Hosmer and then he finishes up.
8/20 - Wake goes 5 strong then gets knocked around in the 6th. Albers comes in to throw gas on the fire and an 8 run inning is the result
Clearly the last two games are the most interesting games here. Francona was appropriately quick on the 19th but then arguably erred in letting Aceves finish up. The next day Francona had Wake at 84 pitches start the 6th. Maybe he should have lifted him there but Wake was coming off a 94 pitch outing where he retired 6 of the last 7 and 9 of the last 11 he faced. Albers then got creamed to completely ruin the night.
I think the biggest question is should Tito have lifted Aceves after the 7th on 8/19 with the 7-1 lead? Perhaps, but if he goes to Albers (the likely candidate) and Albers does what he did on the 20th he suddenly has to go to Bard/Papelbon to finish it out. Letting Aceves just close things out makes some sense there, win the game you have.
I think looking at these games the two slow hooks were both with Albers. Albers faced six hitters (retiring one) in the 8/20 game and in the 8/16 game sending him out for the 2nd inning clearly did not work.
The Lackey game on 8/17 also fits the bill but having used Albers, Morales and Wheeler the day before I understand trying to get one more inning out of the guy.
I know, I was afraid of that. Had to throw in the "not to say he's impervious..." line for that very reason. .
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