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Jon Heyman at SI, 9/28:Joel Sherman in the NYPost, 9/28:Jackie MacMullen at ESPN-Boston, 9/30:
The Red Sox have clearly prized the working relationship between their GM and field manager, and I highly doubt that a true great like LaRussa would accept the more limited authority of a Red Sox manager.
...Up until the point when he bats Dan Johnson in a crucial situation because he "has a feeling". Then Red Sox nation would crucify him.
John Tomase at the Herald, 9/30:I find the "complaints about the bus" thing prima facie believable - it's exactly the sort of ridiculous, minor problem that could become weirdly nasty if tensions remained, day to day.
Or Bobby Valentine. That would be interesting.
The deluge of people holding Tito completly blameless is ridiculous. (not here, but they'll be more than a few). He's not particularly good tactically, and it's not like the players are going anywhere.
I asked this in another thread, but what is the problem with drinking beers during the game? Don't some teams still include beer in the post-game spread (I don't know if the Sox do)? Is Tomase really suggesting that because a player has a beer on an off day they are incapable of staying in shape? It really seems to me it's just Tomase flailing around trying to make a story out of nothing (shocking action by a writer I know).
The game was, oddly, the only game after the pre-Irene doubleheader sweep of Oakland where the team put everything together in one game, scoring lots of runs, and allowing very few - the 14-0 win at Toronto, on September 6th. I remember that game, because I remember feeling like, "OK, we just had a lousy week, but we're back on track." Tito chose THAT game to talk with the team about how he didn;t like how things were going.
That is very odd, and it makes me think that some players were using that drubbing as an excuse for saying that everything was OK, we're going to be the big, bad Red Sox, and just leave us the #### alone.
The Sox then lost their next five, giving up 40 runs in their next five games. The day after the 14-0 game, by the way, was one of the worst losses of the season, an 11-10 loss to the Blue Jays. The Sox had an 8-5 lead going into the 7th, Wheelr and Morales were ineffective, and Tito surprisingly brough in Bard in the 7th inning. We all praised Tito for not waiting until the 8th, as he usually would have, because this was the key point in the game. He got through the 7th, and then was TERRIBLE in the 8th, and we were all yelling for him to bring in Paps to get four or five outs. Tito didn't, we scored 2 in the 9th to make it interesting, and then we lost, 11-10. I remember a lot of people feeling like that was the moment that people started to figure out that we might be in the middle of something very bad.
I can't connect all the dots, but that three game series in Toronto was the key point of the season (we lost the first game of the series, 1-0, in 11 innings). Tito and Theo acknowledged something big happened after the 14-0 game. THAT's what I'd like to hear a lot more about...
Internal candidates in this scenario (inmates running asylum) won't work. Valentine or the "new flavor of the week" bench coach from outside the organization is whats needed. My concern with Valentine is he's a total asshat whose more about Bobby than the job.
Might be that. I don't think he was suggesting that the beer wasn't about staying in shape - more about being professional. If guys were drinking in the clubhouse while the game is happening? That's unprofessional. You shouldn't do that, even if the effect on your performance is nil. If it was just guys having a couple after the game with their teammates even though they hadn't pitched that day - I agree that is grasping at straws.
I don't think Tomase is suggesting anything other than it's clearly unprofessional to drink on the job whether you have work to do that day or not. Not to mention, it's baseball. You NEVER know when you will be needed, rotation schedule be damned. Sometimes a pitcher needs to be a pinch-runner to preserve the bats still on the bench. Sometimes there's a 15-inning marathon and a starter may be needed. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect professional athletes to not drink while their team is playing a game.
Beer in the post-game spread is having a drink after work.
EDIT - Coke to Joe C.
Beer in the post-game spread is having a drink after work.
Concur. My question is why is beer available before/during the game?
I mean, places I've worked in will serve beer/wine at late afternoon social events in the office, but they don't have a fridge of beers there for you to help yourself.
You've clearly never worked as a high school janitor.
Is Tito a Boras client?
Players bring it in themselves, I suppose. It's not like it'll be confiscated it at the door. And I'm sure many have personal mini-fridge in their lockers. Have you ever seen a big-league clubhouse? It's downright luxurious.
(not blaming it all on bad luck; baserunning, errors, etc. all contributed)
Also curious about his overall relation with the press corps, and how that plays out in the rumormongering over the next few days.
One minor source of tension with them that I've seen from time-to-time: he can be pretty sarcastic toward them when the media does something that annoys him. Like when reporters get a cell phone call in the middle of his press conferences and actually take it—to the point that he will stop the press conference and deliberately embarrass them for doing so with barbed comments. It's a little thing, but even though the people who do this are in the wrong, you could see some of them getting annoyed with his response.
(not blaming it all on bad luck; baserunning, errors, etc. all contributed)
I wonder how much this was caused by it being Sept. Totally unscientifcally, I would expect more blowouts in Sept. as teams throw minor league call-ups into hopeless games.
The Red Sox had a decent number of 10+ run games, that might have been more subdued in other circumstances.
If he'd scolded the players about their habits we may be in a completely different thread.
I worked at one publishing place, a relatively small office, where we often held lunch parties where beer was provided. You could even take the bottle(s) back with you to your desk. If you've ever tried proofreading ad copy while slightly inebriated...
It's called "Hell Yeah, I Like Beer", by the mediocrity Kevin Fowler. "I Like Beer" is a Tom T. Hall song that's as much a classic as a Tom T. Hall song can be.
And, yeah, as long as we're mongering rumors, that's our off-day beer drinking group right there.
And I hear Bucholz pours out the rest when the others aren't looking and pretends to drink from the empty!
####### hell
edited above
Because that would be the most awesome thing for the Sox chatters that has ever happened in the history of ever.
Thank you, Tito. You were a big part of the best time to be a Red Sox fan in generations. You handled the Boston microscope as well as any manager ever has, you were smart and seemed to enjoy the job, at least until the very end, and you frankly just seem like a good, decent man who wants to do the best job he can. I wish you the best in whatever you do next (with the exception of managing against the Sox of course); you'll be missed.
Hiring Francona was thought to have aided the quest for Schilling, so are there any manager and free agent/no-trade waiver combos this year?
And Red Sox Nation will fondly remember those comparatively crisp 4-hour games before LaRussa came aboard. Might help the Quest for Pujols (although I don't think he'll consider not playing 1st unless paid a lot more).
What does Albert think of Tony?
It was probably time to move on, but Red Sox fans should not take for granted how good a job he did in Boston.
By the way, who will be on the 2012 payroll that was part of the 2004 team?
Probably not Wakefield or Varitek.
Not Francona.
Ortiz and Youkilis? And that's if they resign Ortiz.
Wow, time goes by fast...
.
And if they had won the pennant or WS?
In another recent thread, Darren claimed that it was clear that the front office was unhappy with Francona before the events of September '11. Is Darren our front office mole? Is he really Theo's twin brother posting under an alias?
That's the cover to ward off the charge of "scapegoating."
"It wasn't what happened in September; it was a collection of things that started building up way before September, yadda, yadda, yadda."
If Girardi uses Rivera for one inning, if Papelbon throws one splitter,...we might not be having this conversation.
The May through August performance was great, but April still had meaning as well. The apparent lack of readiness for the season to begin already reflected poorly on Francona and his staff. The fact that it all fell apart in September is obviously the bigger issue, but I don't think it's right to ignore the start either.
IIRC, the pitch that was hit to LF and ended Game 162 for the Sox was clocked at 90 mph--so either Paps was really, REALLY gassed, or that was a splitter...that didn't split.
i asked this as well during the game thread. i'm in nj, so i don't get to watch the sox that often, but i thought earlier this year, he re-introduced his splitter, which i always thought was more devistating than his slider.
but he seemed to have abandoned it...
$7 mill? No one tell Menino.
Roughly three weeks ago is when ST started heating up. Why shouldn't the FO be talking?
40 minutes? Hell, it takes me hours to clean out an office I use for only a year. But I guess I use a lot more paper than Tito. And I'm disorganized.
Or maybe he's just having a little go-round with one of the secretaries.
NESN report
PS-don't work for the NYY's!
The same Dan Duquette who was so wrongly fired that he hasn't held or even been considered for another GM post for the last 10 years?
Sad to see Terry go. The quotes were all classy and I hope it really is true that he is quitting rather than being let go. While certainly he wasn't the best regular season tactician, he was the Red Sox' best manager in my lifetime and I have a hard time believing that the next manager will be better than he was. I guess to the point of the other thread, while the next manager may not be better than Tito, let's hope the next manager is better for this team.
Thanks Tito!
Fair point. I guess there is something behind the old chestnut "don't general manage crazy".
(sorry km)
I flame, therefore I am!
but next Sox manager really ought to be Jason Varitek. No idea if he'd take it. Hell, a player-manager for a year might even work in this case, but I'd prefer if he just managed full time and kept his bat out of the lineup.
Is this crazy talk????
This is arguably the most likely scenario.
EDITED BECAUSE I CANNOT TYPE
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