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   1. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4218057)
 
The idea of a rotation in two years that looks like; Lester-Buchholz-Webster-Barnes-Doubront is certainly intriguing


And John Lackey! Don't forget about John Lackey!
   2. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4218062)
John Lackey is the closer in that scenario!
   3. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4218063)
Lackey's in there next year, at least for a little while.
   4. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4218069)
Lackey's definitely there next year. I think 2014 and 2015 are open to results. "Worst case" scenario he pitches well and earns his place. If he can't get it done then the Sox have the pieces ready to go.
   5. Dan Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:29 PM (#4218075)
Sands is also an option at first base, which shouldn't be discounted.
   6. booond Posted: August 25, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4218077)
De La Rosa is only 5-11. He's lanky to middle-schoolers. He is the potential big prize. He has big stuff with shaky control. Turn a few walks into outs and he's a middle to top of the rotation guy. Worst case a big reliever.

Webster is a bit overrated. However, if he can get his walks under control, and has a good infield defense behind him, then he's a solid #3. His HR% looks fluky this year.

Sands screams platoon 4th outfielder.

DeJesus looked better before the broken leg. At best he's a utility guy.

   7. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: August 25, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4218148)
Going into the 2012 season, ZIPS had Sands projected at 235/308/415, with 19 HR - probably about a 95 OPS+ in LA. I'm not sure his 2012 in Albuquerque and the move to Fenway bump up his 2013 projection too much higher than that, but he could maybe settle into a Cody Ross (pre-2012)/David Murphy-like career.
   8. Darren Posted: August 25, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4218159)
Going into this season, James Loney was projected to a be a pretty average player. I wonder if leaving the cavernous confines of LA might free him up a bit.
   9. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: August 25, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4218183)
Going into this season, James Loney was projected to a be a pretty average player. I wonder if leaving the cavernous confines of LA might free him up a bit.


Looks like Loney projected to a 102 OPS+ for 2012. That's probably a bit below average, and he's legitimately sucked this year. He might do better in Fenway, but I doubt his projection would be that pretty.
   10. God Posted: August 25, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4218185)
  De la Rosa is a lanky, hard thrower and like a lot of hard throwers control is a bit of an issue.

De la Rosa isn't in the same universe as lanky. He's a big (not tall but big) beefy dude.
   11. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 25, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4218200)
De La / De Los pitcher lankiness:

Valerio De Los Santos: not lanky
Jorge De La Rosa: approaching lanky
Fautino De Los Santos: lanky
Rubby De La Rosa: not tall enough to be lanky
   12. Darren Posted: August 25, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4218230)
I don't think his projection would look good, I just think there's a chance that playing in a hitter's park might have give him more of a boost than you'd expect.
   13. The District Attorney Posted: August 25, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4218231)
De La Soul: one lanky, two non-lanky
   14. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4218257)
3 foot high and rising? Not lanky.
   15. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4218261)
What can I say, every picture I've seen he looks lanky. I'll defer to the conventional wisdom and declare him not lanky.
   16. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4218265)
I think there's value in a thread like this one. It looks at a specific, underappreciated part of the deal. I was frustrated with the multiple threads that didn't really have anything original to them.
   17. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4218269)
Yeah, but are you lanky?
   18. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4218273)
The conventional wisdom? Isn't there a page that lists his height?
   19. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4218277)
I've seen both 6'1" and 5"11" and weights ranging from 170 to 190.
   20. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 25, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4218280)
So, 6'0" and 180.
   21. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: August 25, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4218296)
Someone smarter than me can answer this, but I recall there being significant questions about Sands' defensive ability to hold down a starting OF job. Maybe that's mitigated by Fenway's unique LF. But I would certainly hesitate to 'hand him a starting job.' I don't think there's any question that Ross doesn't come back for 2013, which leaves me with Sands/Kalish - Ellsbury - [big acquisition] as an OF alignment. Which, like everything else to do with this deal, is fine pending finding out who the additional starter is.
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: August 25, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4218323)
Someone smarter than me can answer this, but I recall there being significant questions about Sands' defensive ability to hold down a starting OF job.


Lanky guys do well in front of the monster, Mike Lankwell for examp...
   23. Mattbert Posted: August 25, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4218335)
One potentially interesting benefit of this deal is the Sox could move prospects for MLB players (prepare for Justin Upton rumors aplenty) this winter without depleting the system.
I will enjoy reading those rumors. That is exactly the sort of move the Sox should be looking to make now they have all this flexibility.
   24. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: August 25, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4218363)
By the way - I attended tonight's AA game in Portland, Sea Dogs vs. Binghamton Mets. Drake Britton was the Portland starter, but I was there to see Bogaerts, and to a lesser extent, Travis Shaw - both of the recently promoted to AA. I only got to see two of Bogaerts' plate appearances (I was there with both of my young daughters and my wife, and the line for the "sundae in a helmet" was really long). A few observations:

1) Bogaerts certainly looks different from everybody else on the field. He's the youngest guy on either team tonight, but he looks extremely comfortable, relaxed, athletic...you name it. He's 19 years old, playing the most difficult position on the diamond, he knows everybody is timing their bathroom breaks to see his at bats, and he's cool with it. In his two ABs I saw, he fouled out and hit a screamer to 3B with guys on base, but right at the Mets' 3B.

2) Bogaerts showed off his arm on two occasions tonight. First, he dove to his left to make a stop on a grounder, and made a nice throw to the 2B from the ground (not even his knees, basically his stomach) to get a force out. Almost got a double play out of it, where nobody thought there was any chance of even a close play. Then, later in the game, he dives to his right, pretty deep in the hole, makes the stop, gets to his feet, and makes a very strong accurate throw to get the runner. In both cases, you had to impressed with both his ability to get his balance after going to the ground, and the strength and accuracy of his arm. (NOTE: He had a double late in the game, and also made a throwing error, so there you go...)

3) Shaw, who has shown very good plate discipline in his minor-league career, showed that skill tonight. He took a walk tonight where he looked at a couple of close pitches, both called balls, took the count deep, and looked very willing to take the walk to get on base. He's a big guy, isn't hitting much in the short time he's been in AA, but he definitely looks like he has an idea of what he wants to do at the plate.

   25. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 25, 2012 at 11:58 PM (#4218367)
What did you think of Britton, he seems like an interesting guy.
   26. Textbook Editor Posted: August 26, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4218383)
Huh. I didn't realize I would be considered 'lanky' but apparently so.

I like the reboot. This is way more of a haul than I ever would have thought we could get while dumping $250 million in salary. It remains astounding to me this deal got done.
   27. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 26, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4218387)
He looks lanky to me.

More importantly I'm never describing anyone as lanky ever again.
   28. tfbg9 Posted: August 26, 2012 at 02:09 AM (#4218411)
Joe Bivens, by the way, is certainly not lanky.
   29. UnclePab Posted: August 26, 2012 at 07:31 AM (#4218427)
Lankiness: The new market inefficiency?
   30. HOLLA(R) Posted: August 26, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4218538)
he looks extremely comfortable, relaxed, athletic...you name it


You missed a word.
   31. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: August 26, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4218596)
My bad. Lanky.
   32. Dan Posted: August 27, 2012 at 04:36 AM (#4218939)
I think it's worth noting that even the ever-cynical Keith Law noted the other day that Xander Bogaerts has improved his defense enough to make staying at SS a possibility. No one should be writing him in as the starting SS for 2014 yet, but at the beginning of the year no one was talking about him as a ML SS.

"They're also looking at a pretty interesting group of position-player prospects racing up the system, led by Xander Bogaerts, who has improved his defense at shortstop this year and may defy earlier expectations and stay at the position."
   33. tjm1 Posted: August 27, 2012 at 05:09 AM (#4218941)
I think it's worth noting that even the ever-cynical Keith Law noted the other day that Xander Bogaerts has improved his defense enough to make staying at SS a possibility. No one should be writing him in as the starting SS for 2014 yet, but at the beginning of the year no one was talking about him as a ML SS.


This is a couple encouraging notes on defensive development in the Sox minor league system this year -- Lavarnway also went from maybe not having the defensive skills to catch in the majors to being rated the top defensive catcher in the International League.
   34. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 27, 2012 at 07:03 AM (#4218953)
I'd be considered lanky in Guatemala.
   35. Darren Posted: August 27, 2012 at 09:22 AM (#4219004)
Sickels gives his take on the prospects. The two pitchers are B+'s, with Webster apparently grading out higher. The others are C/C+ types. Nice haul.
   36. karlmagnus Posted: August 27, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4219065)
Talking of lottery tickets, do we know why Loney's had such a bad year? On past numbers, he ought to be mildly useful, though I know LA writers didn't like him in '09-10, when I was following LA because of Manny. He's only 28, so it can't be "his swing has slowed and can't catch up to the fastball any more."

(question transferred here, may be a better place for it.)
   37. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 27, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4219070)
I haven't really seen much of him so the "why" is a bit tough to answer. He looks to me like a guy who isn't exactly All Star caliber to begin with having a down year. Even if he rebounds he's pretty mediocre. Just looking at his career I get the sense of a guy who had some holes in swing that took the league a bit of time to figure out and after that first good year he has been unimpressive. Frankly, I can see Middlebrooks having a Loney shape to his career.
   38. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 27, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4219072)
Some guys just happen to peak at 22-23. Could be that's Loney. I haven't watched him play, so I don't really know.
   39. booond Posted: August 27, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4219076)
Looking at Loney's minor league history the one good MLB season looks like an outlier.
   40. booond Posted: August 27, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4219078)
Webster at 6-3 190 is lanky.
   41. Howie Menckel Posted: September 03, 2012 at 09:31 AM (#4225428)

1.68 million google results for "Barack Obama" lanky

599,000 google results for "Mitt Romney" lanky

623,000 google results for "Joe Biden" lanky

159,000 google results for "Paul Ryan" lanky

17,200 google results for "Chris Christie" lanky
   42. Mattbert Posted: September 06, 2012 at 09:06 AM (#4228016)
Chris Mellen of SoxProspects went to see Allen Webster's start for Portland last week.
In my first chance to scout Webster, I came away very impressed with his overall stuff. His secondary offerings were some of the better ones I have seen within the system all season. Advanced and rounding towards major-league caliber, he showed ease and confidence when throwing them. Despite struggling with his fastball, these offerings still were effective and capable of missing bats. Both can be plus pitches at his disposal on any given night. Webster also stayed aggressive, kept his composure when laboring, and did not give into opposing batters. He mixed his secondary stuff into sequences consistently, while throwing them at any point in the count. The fastball is a contact- inducing pitch, best utilized to pound the strike zone early in sequences so he can then go to the slider and change to finish batters off.

[...]

I saw the stuff and overall pitching package of a potential solid third starter at the major league level, but there is some work to do. For Webster to get there he will be tasked with refining his fastball command and duplicating the consistency of his delivery that he showed when throwing his secondary offerings. I feel that the room is there for him to grow. With strides made honing the command during the 2013 season, he can push for a slot in a big league rotation in 2014 and develop into a pitcher capable of putting together effective seasons as a starter at the major league level.

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