BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Now I Really Wish They Pitched Sabathia

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1. John DiFool2 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2569373)

Well, they would have come in with full rest anyway (MTWT), just now they get extended rest. Well Fausto wouldn't have, assuming CC blew this game (not likely with 6 runs of support).

Bring them on-I am soooo glad we didn't get Clash of the Titans Round 3 again that words can't express.

2. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:17 AM (#2569401)

Bring it on. Though I agree that those NY/Bos playoff series are stressful to watch. Pretty much torture for the 4 1/2 hours each game seems to take.

3. Darren

Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:27 AM (#2569420)

Bring it on.

Here in the states we've learned that this type of bravado usually backfires.

4. Dan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:36 AM (#2569436)

So does Tito start Beckett for Game 1 and Game 4 on short rest, lining him up to pitch game 7 if needed? Or does he use a four man rotation? The Game 4 starter going in Game 7 would be pitching on full rest.

I think the right call is to stick with the 3 man rotation, personally. The game 2 and game 3 starters would come back on full rest to start games 5 and 6, respectively. This series is set up PERFECTLY to go with a 3 man rotation.

5. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:42 AM (#2569442)

I think the right call is to stick with the 3 man rotation, personally. The game 2 and game 3 starters would come back on full rest to start games 5 and 6, respectively. This series is set up PERFECTLY to go with a 3 man rotation.

No they wouldn't. Game 2 starts on Thursday, Oct. 25. Game 5 is Monday, Oct. 29. Game 3 is Oct. 27, Game 6 isOct. 31. That's 3 days rest for Schilling and Matsusaka, both of whom are probably better off on normal or more rest.

I hope the rotation is the same. Beckett in 1 and 5, Matsusaska in 2 and 6 (five days rest), Schilling in 4 and 7 and Wakefield/Lester in Game 4.

6. Dan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:51 AM (#2569453)

You're looking at the World Series schedule SoSH, not the ALCS schedule. The ALCS schedule is:

Game Matchup Day Date Time ET TV
Gm 1 CLE @ BOS Fri Oct. 12  7 pm  FOX
Gm 2 CLE @ BOS Sat Oct. 13  8 pm  FOX
Gm 3 BOS @ CLE Mon Oct. 15  7 pm  FOX
Gm 4 BOS @ CLE Tue Oct. 16  8 pm  FOX
Gm 5* BOS @ CLE Thu Oct. 18  8 pm  FOX
Gm 6* CLE @ BOS Sat Oct. 20  TBD  FOX
Gm 7* CLE @ BOS Sun Oct. 21  TBD  FOX 

7. Darren

Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:58 AM (#2569460)

One snag: I think the Red Sox probably want to get both Dice and Schilling extra rest if possible.

8. J. Cross Posted: October 09, 2007 at 05:00 AM (#2569463)

I think the right call is to stick with the 3 man rotation, personally. The game 2 and game 3 starters would come back on full rest to start games 5 and 6, respectively. This series is set up PERFECTLY to go with a 3 man rotation.

No they wouldn't. Game 2 starts on Thursday, Oct. 25. Game 5 is Monday, Oct. 29. Game 3 is Oct. 27, Game 6 isOct. 31. That's 3 days rest for Schilling and Matsusaka, both of whom are probably better off on normal or more rest.

I hope the rotation is the same. Beckett in 1 and 5, Matsusaska in 2 and 6 (five days rest), Schilling in 4 and 7 and Wakefield/Lester in Game 4.

Well, gm 2 --> 5 is 4 days rest and gm 4-->7 is 4 days rest so the only "problem" is game 1-->4. Basically, I think it should be decided in the 5th inning of game 1. If the game is close you have to stick with your ace and then, IMO, you should go with a 4 man rotation (although Beckett has suceded on 3 days rest before). But, if game 1 isn't close I think both teams should take the calculated risk of pulling their ace and going to Lester/Byrd for a few innings with the plan to bring their aces back for game 4.

9. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: October 09, 2007 at 05:01 AM (#2569466)

You're looking at the World Series schedule SoSH, not the ALCS schedule. The ALCS schedule is:

Ah, so I was. Though, as Darren notes, I still think extra rest for Dice and Schilling is preferable.

10. Dan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 05:25 AM (#2569489)

Well, if you really do want the extra rest for Schilling, I think the rotation I'd set up would be

Game 1: Beckett
Game 2: Schilling
Game 3: Matsuzaka
Game 4: Beckett
Game 5: Lester
Game 6: Schilling
Game 7: Beckett

I think the downgrade to Lester from Matsuzaka for one game is a lot less of a deal than basically replacing a Beckett start with a Lester or Wakefield start. I just think that with this schedule, and being able to get Beckett 3 starts with only one of the 3 coming on short rest, you'd be very, very foolish not to get all 3 starts from him if possible. Obviously if you're up 3-0 after 3 games, you can make the decision not to push Beckett for Game 4, but I think it's definitely a serious option. Plus, you get Beckett if it goes to 7 games instead of Schilling.

11. Phil Coorey. Posted: October 09, 2007 at 06:05 AM (#2569512)

Game Matchup Day Date Time ET TV
Gm 1 CLE @ BOS Fri Oct. 12 7 pm FOX
Gm 2 CLE @ BOS Sat Oct. 13 8 pm FOX
Gm 3 BOS @ CLE Mon Oct. 15 7 pm FOX
Gm 4 BOS @ CLE Tue Oct. 16 8 pm FOX
Gm 5* BOS @ CLE Thu Oct. 18 8 pm FOX
Gm 6* CLE @ BOS Sat Oct. 20 TBD FOX
Gm 7* CLE @ BOS Sun Oct. 21 TBD FOX

I thought it was TBS???

EDIT - I should have checked. FOX wants no part of the NLCS...

12. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: October 09, 2007 at 07:40 AM (#2569532)

They have to take it next year, though.

13. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 09, 2007 at 08:57 AM (#2569547)

Game 1: Beckett
Game 2: Schilling
Game 3: Matsuzaka
Game 4: Beckett
Game 5: Lester
Game 6: Schilling
Game 7: Beckett

I'd be OK with that rotation. We're still not taking Timmy right?

14. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:14 AM (#2569562)

The Game 2 and Game 3 pitchers can pitch on regular rest in Games 5 and 6. The Red Sox, on the one hand, have a pretty big drop off to their #4, but on the other hand, they'd probably much rather pitch their #2 and #3 on extra rest if at all possible.

My guess is that the Red Sox will not go with Beckett on short rest, but instead line up Beckett-Matsuzaka-Schilling. That gets two extra off days for Matsuzaka, one extra for Schilling, and lines Schilling up for a Game 7 in Boston.

If I were in charge, I would know a lot more about the pitchers' health and I might make a different decision, but I think the Sox ought to stick with the three-man rotation. Beckett has established himself as the ace, and he's done three days rest in the playoffs before. I'd be interested to see Lester pitch again in Cleveland, but either he or Wake would be pretty scary.

Roster: switch out Cash for a pitcher - Tavarez or Wakefield.

15. The George Sherrill Selection Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:34 AM (#2569574)

I'd be interested to see Lester pitch again in Cleveland, but either he or Wake would be pretty scary.

Would you use (effectively) both? Start Lester, and pull him for Wakefield if it looks like he is in trouble (or vice-versa)? That would interfere with the ability to use either in long relief, but if you did need one for that role, you've got problems.

16. karlmagnus Posted: October 09, 2007 at 12:04 PM (#2569587)

Wakefield will do fine, provided tfbg9 is out at an urgent meeting that evening. It's up to us Sox Therapists to arrange an urgent meeting for him.

17. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 09, 2007 at 12:17 PM (#2569596)

Can't we just get him a hooker?

18. Mike Webber Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:25 PM (#2569627)

With Cleveland's lineup I'd start Lester in game 3 over Dice-K. Then decide whether to come back with Beckett or Dice-K in game four, depending on the series record and how Beckett pitched in game 1.

Oh and Wakefield for long relief in case anyone pulls a Wang and can't even go 2 innings.

19. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:27 PM (#2569629)

I will say this: if we can guarentee 6IP 2 ER from Tim Wakefield in a Game 3 or Game 4 situation, I will buy tfbg a hooker.

20. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 09, 2007 at 01:44 PM (#2569650)

I thought they only worked on a rental basis.

21. John DiFool2 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 04:57 PM (#2569861)

I'm surprised everybody is so down on Dice-K. If you compare him to Carmona in the long term, they look pretty comparable in terms of value-the gap in ERA they have this year should evaporate down to nothing from here on out (Fausto had a .281 BABIP, after .341 last year in 73 innings). Yeah I don't want to see more "walk walk walk" innings from Matsuzaka any more than y'all do, but he had a ton of quality starts in the middle part of the season.

22. tfbg9 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 06:22 PM (#2570021)

Can't we just get him a hooker?

What?!?! Ol' tfbg9 never paid fo it in his life!!!

23. villageidiom Posted: October 09, 2007 at 07:52 PM (#2570149)

Wok's buying.

24. The Marksist Posted: October 09, 2007 at 07:58 PM (#2570154)

ESPN reporting that Schilling gets the game 2 start with Wakefield as the likely game 4 starter unless it's Beckett on short rest.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2007/news/story?id=3055817

25. SoSH U at work Posted: October 09, 2007 at 08:14 PM (#2570169)

ESPN reporting that Schilling gets the game 2 start with Wakefield as the likely game 4 starter unless it's Beckett on short rest.

It seems the Sox must believe Schilling needs the rest more than Dice, based on their deployment of him thus far.

Unless they fall behind 3-0, I really would rather see the 4-man rotation in the ALCS. Perhaps its based on nothing more than a feeling, but the idea of pre-emptively announcing plans to throw your ace on short rest sends a message of desperation that is wholly unnecessary.

26. The Marksist Posted: October 09, 2007 at 08:19 PM (#2570175)

Unless they fall behind 3-0, I really would rather see the 4-man rotation in the ALCS. Perhaps its based on nothing more than a feeling, but the idea of pre-emptively announcing plans to throw your ace on short rest sends a message of desperation that is wholly unnecessary.

I don't think that the Sox have openly said they'll pitch Beckett on short rest. The article just speculates that they might.

27. SoSH U at work Posted: October 09, 2007 at 08:22 PM (#2570177)

I don't think that the Sox have openly said they'll pitch Beckett on short rest. The article just speculates that they might.

Yeah, I know. Just voicing my opinion on the matter.

28. Dan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 09:16 PM (#2570217)

I'm sure who pitches in Game 4 will depend on many factors, like how well Beckett pitches in Game 1, how hard he has to work in Game 1, and the series standings at the time. Up 3-0, you obviously don't go to Beckett on short rest. Up 2-1, probably not. Down 1-2 or 0-3, you have to go to Beckett in Game 4 though.

29. tfbg9 Posted: October 09, 2007 at 09:29 PM (#2570231)

It might even be Lester.

30. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 09, 2007 at 11:41 PM (#2570299)

"Here in the states we've learned that this type of bravado usually backfires"

Though I admire your cautious approach, we've had the best team all year and I'm confident. Sure, strange things happen in the playoffs, but yeah, I'm really confident.
Don't you think the decision of who goes in game 4 will be based on how the series is going? If we are up 3-0, there is no way Beckett is throwing game 4. If we are up 2-1? Any ideas?

31. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: October 10, 2007 at 12:03 AM (#2570309)

They've already announced Wakefield as the game 4 pitcher, haven't they? And Dice-K the game 3 starter.

32. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 10, 2007 at 12:31 AM (#2570330)

I know what they have announced, my question is do you think they'll change the rotation from game 4 on depending on the circumstances?

33. Joel W Posted: October 10, 2007 at 01:08 AM (#2570350)

What circumstances to you change it under? I think down 2-1 is the only one I do.

34. Darren

Posted: October 10, 2007 at 02:18 AM (#2570385)

Hugh,

I was just making a joke about the phrase "bring it on."

35. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2007 at 02:20 AM (#2570387)

We're lining up the starters for the 2007 ALCS, while the Yanks are dead, and scrambling to save Joe's job. Nice, blissful 3-4 day stretch, eh boys?

36. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 10, 2007 at 03:21 AM (#2570430)

Darren,
Fair enough mate, sorry I missed the intent. Though you must admit you are far more cautious then some of us regarding the possibilities. Your guarded optimism is fun though as some of us just like to gee you up a bit. However in saying that...we started out with and finished with the best team and I am confident the Sox will win it all.
Joel,
I can see that. At 1-2 down, you'd most certainly have to go with Beckett in game 4, no way you are throwing Wake out there, it'd give me hives just watching it.

37. tfbg9 Posted: October 10, 2007 at 02:48 PM (#2570694)

Then join me at the whore house, Hugh?

38. Darren

Posted: October 11, 2007 at 01:36 AM (#2571398)

How about this for a kooky idea:

Game 1 Beckett
Game 2 Dice
Game 3 Schilling
Game 4 Wake with 2 IP from Beckett
Game 5 Dice
Game 6 Schilling
Game 7 Beckett

You get the most out of Beckett without overtaxing him. If you finish in 6, Beckett's ready for game 1.

39. chris p Posted: October 11, 2007 at 02:37 AM (#2571433)

alright, darren. i'll let tito know right away!

40. tfbg9 Posted: October 11, 2007 at 02:57 PM (#2571659)

You get the most out of Beckett without overtaxing him. If you finish in 6, Beckett's ready for game 1.

In some video game, yes.

41. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: October 11, 2007 at 03:11 PM (#2571681)

Wow, pretty slow over here in Sox Therapy, given that the Red Sox just swept their way into ALCS and and playing game 1 tomorrow.

42. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: October 11, 2007 at 03:20 PM (#2571697)

God, it's been SO LONG between games!

Wow, pretty slow over here in Sox Therapy, given that the Red Sox just swept their way into ALCS and and playing game 1 tomorrow.

I wouldn't say they "just" swept their way in. The series ended on Sunday!

43. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 11, 2007 at 04:01 PM (#2571768)

My rotation:

Game 1: Josh
Game 2: Curt
Game 3: Daisuke
Game 4: 0-3 Beckett 1-2 Wakefield 2-1 Wakefield 3-0 Wakefield
Game 5: Schilling 1-3 Beckett 2-2, 3-1
Game 6: Daisuke 2-3, Curt 3-2
Game 7: Whoever is left in the algorithm

Jon Lester on standby for game 3 and 4.

44. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 11, 2007 at 10:05 PM (#2572162)

Wow, pretty slow over here in Sox Therapy, given that the Red Sox just swept their way into ALCS and and playing game 1 tomorrow.

Well, there was a teensy bit of news - Tito said that Wakefield on the ALCS roster in place of Cash, and they'll be platooning Kielty and Drew, at least for Game 1.

Schilling pitches Game 2, which means that in all likelihood Daisuke is set for Game 7. The Sox clearly have no worries about their new guy in a big game.

And I have tickets for Friday! Exciting!

45. Phil Coorey. Posted: October 11, 2007 at 10:56 PM (#2572185)

Enjoy the game, MCOA!

I can now tell everyone at the ALCS breakfast I am hosting at home, that I know someone at the game!!!

46. Toby Posted: October 12, 2007 at 01:08 AM (#2572288)

the last few days have felt like the last few days of a [second] spring training, waiting for the [second] season to start. Who makes the team? What's the rotation? Is everyone healthy? How many rainouts are we going to have in the first week?

47. scotto Posted: October 12, 2007 at 01:14 AM (#2572299)

Phil, Jack and Jill Vincennes will be at Saturday's game.

48. Hugh Jorgan Posted: October 12, 2007 at 02:10 AM (#2572357)

#46
I blame Darren. No game for several days and he has the gaul to post buggerall at the same time so we've been picking over this weak thread for 3 days. C'mon Darren, give us something...feed the monster!

49. PJ Martinez Posted: October 12, 2007 at 02:15 AM (#2572361)

How about this?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jacob_luft/10/11/alcs.preview/index.html

Do the Indians really have the better bullpen? Can you really call Wedge v. Francona even when Wedge is giving close ninth innings to Borowski?

Anyway, Luft picks the Indians in six.

50. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2007 at 03:32 AM (#2572478)

I blame Darren. No game for several days and he has the gaul to post buggerall at the same time so we've been picking over this weak thread for 3 days. C'mon Darren, give us something...feed the monster!

I actually wrote something "humourous" i sent to Darren about 3 weeks ago.

He hasn't posted it yet because he hasn't looked at it.

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