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   201. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 12:14 PM (#3275256)
#199--Very much so, yes. To me, that would be a panic move.
   202. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2009 at 12:41 PM (#3275280)
6:45am: Mark Feinsand and Bill Madden of the New York Daily News say the Red Sox are in "full pursuit" of Gonzalez, and believe Boston could get Heath Bell too if they're willing to include pitcher Daniel Bard.

Bard for Bell makes no sense for us.
   203. JB H Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:06 PM (#3275299)
I think there's 0% chance that Boston trades Buchholz for Martinez. How much is the upgrade from Tek to Martinez through 2010 worth? $15 million maybe? Martinez makes $9 million. He's not worth that much to us
   204. JB H Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:09 PM (#3275300)
I can't speak to Drabek's stuff, but Bowden's isn't impressive at all. Fringe-average fastball with a couple solid average off-speed pitches. Not unlike Arroyo's repertoire, only with better control and command. He could be a solid #3 in the NL, but he would probably have a hard time pitching in the AL east.


A better Arroyo is worth like $50 million when he has no service time. Bowden is more realistically a worse Suppan, with a lot of uncertainty
   205. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:24 PM (#3275318)
The optimistic story about Bowden goes like this: He started out with borderline stuff but great results, then added velocity making his stuff almost match his results. This year, they have been working with him, teaching him to throw a slider, which has set back his results but which they believe will help him in the long run.

The problem with this story is a) it's sort of like the ones we tend to hear whenever a Boston prospect struggles ("We're having Lars swing with one arm this year--just to make it challenging for him!") and the tinkering they do with pitchers has pretty mixed results.


The V-Mart thing boils down to whether he can catch or not. If he can't do so reasonably well, you've got a 1B who's a solid but unspectacular improvement on LaRoche. If he can catch, he can get Kottaras out of the lineup and take ABs from Tek and play some 1B/DH.

I saw something very interesting about the possibility of getting Gonzalez on SOSH last night. It was a link to this foxsports article, with the following quote:

The Padres' front office will meet late Thursday with ownership to review trade proposals for closer Heath Bell and first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. General manager Kevin Towers and his staff will be joined at the meeting by Jeff Moorad, the team's vice-chairman and CEO, and Tom Garfinkel, the club president.

"We'll talk through the kinds of proposals that have been made," Moorad told FOXSports.com. "We're always open to improving the club going forward. But the two significant players being discussed would require some element of overpaying to pry them loose."


Moorad goes on to say that it's still unlikely that they deal Gonzalez. I think it's interesting though that they've reached a stage where they're discussing it with upper management.
   206. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:25 PM (#3275320)
6:45am: Mark Feinsand and Bill Madden of the New York Daily News say the Red Sox are in "full pursuit" of Gonzalez, and believe Boston could get Heath Bell too if they're willing to include pitcher Daniel Bard.



And if the Red Sox are willing to kick in John Lester, they may be able to get Chris Young!
   207. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:28 PM (#3275322)
Where would everyone play if they get Gonzalez? bench Ortiz? bench Lowell?
   208. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:30 PM (#3275324)
That move IMO is bad because VMart can't stay at catcher.

Why can't he stay at catcher? He's been playing quite a bit of first base because Ryan Garko suck(ed/s), it helps keep VMart fresher, and they like Shoppach's defense. AFAIK, there's no reason he can't play catcher, unless you mean they don't want to piss off Varitek. In which case, yeah, it makes a lot less sense to trade for Martinez.
   209. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:33 PM (#3275330)
Dan,

We can't go benching Varitek and his 1% caught stealing rate for some piker. Seriously, though, I thought the knock on VMart was that his arm sucked and he can't through anyone out. Not true?
   210. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:42 PM (#3275343)
I assumed he was just too fat to remain at catcher.
   211. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:53 PM (#3275366)
I assume that if they got Gonzalez, Youkilis would move to 3B, we'd trade LaRoche to SD as part of the deal, and Lowell would either become a spot starter or go on the DL, with the Red Sox likely eating most of his 2010 contract to move him in the off-season.

Now, if Lowell is not DL'd, the bench would look something like:

Green
Lowell
Kottaras
Baldelli

I'm willing to give up Buchholz to get Gonzalez, but not Martinez.
   212. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3275375)
I don't think they'd want any part of LaRoche, but I could see the Mets wanting him to fill in the rest of the year while they pretend to contend.
   213. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3275376)
Not being able to throw out runners I think is a prerequisite for becoming a Sox catcher, so that's not a problem. I can't imagine them trading Buchholz for Martinez, it just doesn't seem worth it given the roster's construction. Obviously Gonzalez would be worth something big, but I'd be so irrationally upset if they trade Bard.
   214. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:01 PM (#3275381)
I don't think they'd want any part of LaRoche, but I could see the Mets wanting him to fill in the rest of the year while they pretend to contend.


???
   215. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:06 PM (#3275385)
Agree that I really don't want Bard in any deal. He's the guy who'll step in for Papelbon when we deal him to some team overpaying for a "proven closer" sometime in the next couple of years.
   216. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3275391)
Exactly. I understand why they're not doing it now, it really doesn't make that much sense, and frankly the team could leverage Bard so that he is just as valuable, but my man-crush is only growing. I'm so disappointed every time they take him out to put in Papelbon.
   217. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:10 PM (#3275394)
Robothal speculating a big trade is in the works:

Seems like an earthquake is about to hit Boston

Gonna be a fun 6 hours or so, I think.
   218. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:17 PM (#3275410)
TE, was literally just about to post that. I don't care if it's pure speculation, it got me pretty excited.
   219. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:19 PM (#3275416)
That's a whole lot of speculation from Robothal with very little meat behind it, it seems.
   220. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:20 PM (#3275421)
I don't think the FO left 4 Yawkey last night. Robothal has a beat on this.
   221. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:23 PM (#3275426)
Agree that I really don't want Bard in any deal. He's the guy who'll step in for Papelbon when we deal him to some team overpaying for a "proven closer" sometime in the next couple of years.


you guys are getting ridiculous about Bard.

what about Ramirez as the future closer if they trade papelbon? or okajima if they re-sign him?
   222. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:27 PM (#3275437)
that link was disappointing compared to the headline. It wasnt really new rumors, just: "theo made huge trades during other offseasons, so i expect another one".
   223. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:28 PM (#3275438)
We can't go benching Varitek and his 1% caught stealing rate for some piker. Seriously, though, I thought the knock on VMart was that his arm sucked and he can't through anyone out. Not true?

That's the standard knock, but my personal opinion is that it's way, way overblown. He's had a rough year (7-for-39) throwing out base stealers this season, but in '07-'08 his CS% was 33.3%. He's pretty athletic (consistently low WP/PB rates) and has worked really hard to become a better defensive player.

He's not exactly good back there, but he's good enough - assuming his CS% dip this year is a blip and not an indication that his elbow is shot after the surgery last year. FWIW, nobody's said a word about the elbow being a problem and it doesn't appear to be affecting his bat like it did in '08, so I lean towards the blip theory.

I really, really like Victor. He doesn't complain, he's not out there looking for attention, he's just a tough, talented ballplayer who does his job. He's been the de facto captain of the Indians for the past few years, and if intangibles can help a ballclub win, he's the sort of guy that brings them by the truckload. You guys will really like him - if that elbow isn't shot.
   224. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:32 PM (#3275445)
They're not trading Papelbon. He's untradable because of the market for lemons/asymmetric information issue. Obvious injury issues considered, I fully expect Bard to be significantly better than Ramirez or Okajima over the next 5 years.
   225. tjm1 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 02:49 PM (#3275467)
They're not trading Papelbon. He's untradable because of the market for lemons/asymmetric information issue. Obvious injury issues considered, I fully expect Bard to be significantly better than Ramirez or Okajima over the next 5 years.


You're right. The only way the Sox can trade Papelbon is by making it look like they can't get him signed because they don't value closers the way other teams do. They can't do that for a couple years, when he's getting close to free agency.

what about Ramirez as the future closer if they trade papelbon? or okajima if they re-sign him?


I personally don't buy the "closer mystique" thing so much. The vast majority of times when a genuinely good middle reliever is called on to close games, he's successful. The reason a lot of people don't believe this is that when teams are desperate enough to try this experiment, they often don't have any really good middle relievers. Plus there may be a few guys who really have buckled under the pressure, or who pitch much worse three games in a row after two days off, etc., than one the more regular schedule middle relievers get. Ramirez is good enough to close. So is Manny Delcarmen. Delcarmen would probably be a below average closer, but I bet he'd be better than 1/3 of the closers in the big leagues. Really, I think anyone in the Red Sox bullpen could manage closing, without costing the Sox more than a couple games a year compared with Papelbon.
   226. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:20 PM (#3275515)
you guys are getting ridiculous about Bard.


I think there's something to be said for not substantially weakening your 25 man roster to add to another area. Bard is arguably the 2nd best reliever on the team. If we need to add a bullpen piece to a deal it should be MDC or Ramierez.
   227. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3275522)
Bard is arguably the 2nd best reliever on the team. If we need to add a bullpen piece to a deal it should be MDC or Ramierez.


well ideally, it would be Hunter Jones or the hotdog vendor from grandstand #15, but there's another team in any deal that dictates what 'should' be included.
   228. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:32 PM (#3275531)
Not to get all fanboyish but who are the better relievers on the Red Sox than Bard?
   229. JC in DC Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:41 PM (#3275544)
Not to get all fanboyish but who are the better relievers on the Red Sox than Bard?


Far be it for a Yankee fan to weigh in on this, but I agree w/Nate that some of you seem to be overvaluing him. He's been great this year, for sure, but he's not better than Papelbon or Okajima, IMO, and getting a guy to do his thing doesn't seem to be that difficult. Joba jumped in to it, Hughes has now. It seems like teams have realized you can convert a hard-throwing young guy into an effective (for a while) short reliever.

I don't need to add speculation about going from being the lower-pressure guy to being the higher pressure closer guy, but that's a factor to consider as well. If you can get something for Bard, in part b/c he's been so outstanding in this short trial, I say you do it.
   230. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3275557)
Joba and Hughes were top starting prospects, not generic hard-throwing young guys. They are somewhat rare talents.
   231. JC in DC Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3275570)
Joba and Hughes were top starting prospects, not generic hard-throwing young guys. They are somewhat rare talents.


Wasn't Bard at one point a top starting prospect?
   232. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3275571)
Not to get all fanboyish but who are the better relievers on the Red Sox than Bard?


IMO nobody (considering ceiling and contract issues), but I'm still not going to declare him better than Paps due to SSS issues. It's also nice that Tito can use him as a 'relief ace' type and still have a 'closer' at the back end of the pen.
   233. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3275573)
Not to get all fanboyish but who are the better relievers on the Red Sox than Bard?


well, right now, I can't name any. But going forward maybe Papelbon, Okajima, Ramirez.
maybe no one will be better than Bard, but I dont know why everyone's so certain.
   234. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:00 PM (#3275591)
Do I think Bard will have a career on the level of Papelbon's? Possible, but I don't know. Papelbon's career WPA is 14.4. He's been unbelievably good in his short time, there's no doubt, and is still very good this year.

Still, if you asked me, if the Red Sox are up by a run in the 9th inning against the Yankees next month, who do you want pitching? I'd say Bard, and I think I'd say it rather quickly. It could flip back to Papelbon if he gets his #### together, but for now I'll take the guy who struck out 20 guys in 12 innings last month and didn't walk a single batter, while giving up 4 hits.
   235. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:07 PM (#3275607)
With Wahsburn gone to the Tigers, my fear is the Yankees now swoop in and get Halladay. Weren't the Mariners aware of the plan to send middling starters to the Yankees upon demand, so as not to let them acquire the really good pitchers?
   236. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:13 PM (#3275621)
Still, if you asked me, if the Red Sox are up by a run in the 9th inning against the Yankees next month, who do you want pitching? I'd say Bard, and I think I'd say it rather quickly. It could flip back to Papelbon if he gets his #### together, but for now I'll take the guy who struck out 20 guys in 12 innings last month and didn't walk a single batter, while giving up 4 hits.


Really? Because Papelbon has blown three saves and hasn't looked good getting others? Chances are Bard is not the 2nd coming. I was incredibly suck of hearing about Joba and his greatness and Bard is quickly getting to that level. Just give it a rest until Bard has been doing this for a year or three. (Obvisouly not you specifically JoelW - just quoting you as the last relevant post.) If Bard needed to be in the deal to get Adrian Gonzalez or Halladay I would hope the Sox wouldn't hesitate to sign.
   237. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:15 PM (#3275627)
Hey, what happened to that big trade-deadline BBTF spectacular thing? Are they talking about this stuff?
   238. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:17 PM (#3275637)
Chances are Bard is not the 2nd coming.

Great point.
   239. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:22 PM (#3275647)

With Wahsburn gone to the Tigers, my fear is the Yankees now swoop in and get Halladay. Weren't the Mariners aware of the plan to send middling starters to the Yankees upon demand, so as not to let them acquire the really good pitchers?


Don't worry, that's what old friend Arroyo is for.
   240. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:28 PM (#3275665)
Joba and Hughes were top starting prospects, not generic hard-throwing young guys. They are somewhat rare talents.



Wasn't Bard at one point a top starting prospect?


Yes, he's a top prospect too (though not as great as those 2). But I took your post as an argument that Bard as expendable because guys who dominate in the relief role are so common--these 3 guys are hardly common.
   241. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:28 PM (#3275666)
Really? Because Papelbon has blown three saves and hasn't looked good getting others?


Well, yes actually. He's looked terrible most of the time.
   242. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:32 PM (#3275670)
Exactly, he's looked atrocious. He puts so many base runners on, and has been really lucky (though, as I suggested in another thread, it may not be luck, the splits seem real with runners on). He's walked a ton of batters. Not fun at all.

Well, not atrocious, just not good.
   243. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:33 PM (#3275675)

Hey, what happened to that big trade-deadline BBTF spectacular thing? Are they talking about this stuff?


It's on. Go to the page and you can get in.
   244. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3275694)
#239--I think Arroyo's "revelations" probably preclude any deal the Yankees may have wanted to make, as they'd not want to take a PR hit.
   245. Dan Posted: July 31, 2009 at 04:52 PM (#3275707)
So are we expecting a deal? I'm thinking yes, but I'm probably being optimistic.
   246. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2009 at 05:02 PM (#3275722)
Ah, thanks. I was wondering where that was.

In terms of Red Sox deals, I wouldn't be totally surprised by a blockbuster Martinez, Halladay or Gonzalez deal or even no deal at all. Pretty much anything else would surprise me, though. I don't think anyone saw Adam LaRoche coming.
   247. tjm1 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 05:05 PM (#3275729)
I don't think anyone saw Adam LaRoche coming.


No, but in hindsight, it was quite a sensible move, and they really didn't give any talent up.
   248. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: July 31, 2009 at 05:13 PM (#3275741)
No, but in hindsight, it was quite a sensible move, and they really didn't give any talent up.
Good bandaid player, insurance policy.
   249. Dan Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:10 PM (#3275819)
According to AOL Fanhouse and USA Today, Sox are getting VMart.
   250. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:11 PM (#3275821)
Hopefully Buchholz is not in the deal, and the Sox can still go hard after Halladay.
   251. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3275828)
According to AOL Fanhouse and USA Today, Sox are getting VMart.

FOX Sports, too.
   252. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:17 PM (#3275835)
I'm really not a fan of VMart. Who catches Wake for starters, since it's unlikely Kottaras stays on as a 3rd C? And then you have this ferris wheel approach to 1B/3B/C/DH that probably ensures that defense will still be middling at best. I dunno... I pined for Gonzalez. I feel like I got the fuzzy end of the lollipop.
   253. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3275843)
Is VMart really that much better than Varitek, anyway? And Varitek's signed through next year, no?

I want Gonzalez too. And a pony.
   254. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3275848)
According to Nightengale of USA Today, the Sox also went hard after King Felix, but failed. Sigh.
   255. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3275850)
I want Gonzalez too.


I think VMart + Halladay is more helpful for this season than just AdGon...
   256. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:23 PM (#3275854)
$5 million club option, $3 million player option for 2010, so basically they're eating at least $3 million even if they DFA him next spring. My guess is he stays on as the backup, but if he walks thinking he'll get more than $3 million on the open market, well then godspeed to you, son.
   257. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:24 PM (#3275860)
On ESPN, they're not calling the VMart thing done. tfbg, where are you seeing the Felix thing? What the hell would that take?

Keeping up his habit of contributing nothing, Tim Kurkjian says of Vmart "he had a different handshake for every player and he's ambidextrous so he can throw with each arm." Great job Tim.


I have a feeling that after Boston put together their Halladay package, they started looking around saying, "Hey, if we're willing to give these guys up, let's see if we can get some other superstar."
   258. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:26 PM (#3275865)
"The Indians' exact return is not known, but the Red Sox did not include either right-hander Clay Buchholz nor right-hander Daniel Bard in the deal, according to a source."-Robothal
   259. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:27 PM (#3275871)
tfbg, where are you seeing the Felix thing?


It was here:

http://twitter.com/BNightengale
   260. PJ Martinez Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:33 PM (#3275884)
Fox is saying that neither Buchholz nor Bard is in the Martinez deal.
   261. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:33 PM (#3275886)
But what's Fox saying? :)

My guess is Bowden + ??? Doubront?
   262. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3275894)
I hope Anderson isn't part of this. I have irrational prospect-love for him.
   263. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3275895)
on MLBTR:

1:35pm: MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo says pitchers Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson are in the deal.
   264. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3275896)
I hope it's not Tazawa either.
   265. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:38 PM (#3275898)
Hagadone and Masterson (maybe more) according to http://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3...
   266. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3275907)
Nick Hagadone


A little old, no?
   267. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3275911)
I'd be more than content with that. Dealing from our bullpen strength. Hagadone is coming back from TJ.
   268. The Nightman Cometh Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:41 PM (#3275912)
Damn, I hope Hagadone isn't really in there.
   269. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:41 PM (#3275914)
Hagadone? He's damn good but risky and far off. Masteron's got great stuff and will probably benefit from spending the rest of 09 putting it together under little pressure. I'm afraid we're going to hear there's more though.
   270. 1k5v3L Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:43 PM (#3275921)
http://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3
How many mayo threads do we need here?
   271. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:49 PM (#3275939)
V-Mart, Fenway: 72 PA's: .313 .361 .552 .913
   272. 1k5v3L Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:51 PM (#3275944)
You know who else had a really nice line at Fenway? Julio Lugo
   273. Tripon Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3275949)
SI_JonHeymansorry, masterson's going to cleveland (ovs.). my badless than a minute ago from web
   274. Darren Posted: July 31, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3275964)
What does that even mean?
   275. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:00 PM (#3275970)
I'm reading it as "Jon, Hey, man, sorry."
   276. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:01 PM (#3275971)
#273, it seems clear I don't speak Twittese... Or whatever the hell that is. It reads as if Masterson is going to Cleveland for ovaries.
   277. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3275981)
Olney says there's a uterus to be named later, too.
   278. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3275986)
Heyman originally tweeted that Masterson was going to "Boston" by mistake. He then tweeted again to let people know his obvious error. He then said "My bad"...then Tripon copied and pasted with the timing of Heyman's tweet as it appeared on his screen (less than a minute ago)and no space after the start of his tweet and his name ("Heymansorry")...

Hope that makes sense?!?
   279. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:09 PM (#3275991)
I like V-Mart as a hitter a lot--hits the power pitchers pretty good, and appears to be kinda clutch, actually. He passes all the known clutch "tests", late and close, postseason, high leverage.
   280. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:09 PM (#3275993)
So does Heyman get this straight from Boras' Blackberry, of does Boras send him emails?
   281. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3275996)
From Extra Bases:

3:03 p.m.: SI.com's Jon Heyman reports that the Braves would be interested in Adam LaRoche if the Red Sox make him available. LaRoche, who spent the first three years of his career with the Braves, would probably be expendable if the Red Sox complete the Martinez deal.
   282. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3275997)
Who is Bryan Price? I feel stupid not knowing... Should I care he's in the VMart deal?
   283. 1k5v3L Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:12 PM (#3275999)
Who is Bryan Price?
Former Dbacks pitching coach.
   284. 1k5v3L Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:15 PM (#3276006)
   285. Tripon Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3276009)
Adam LaRoche traded to the Braves.
   286. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3276011)
From Extra Bases:

3:06 p.m. USA Today's Bob Nightengale, who broke the news of the Victor Martinez deal an hour ago, tweets that it is a done deal. He does not indicate which players the Sox are giving up
   287. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:17 PM (#3276013)
Adam LaRoche traded to the Braves.


Details?
   288. Tripon Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:18 PM (#3276016)
No mention of the prospects. Yankees also traded for the Reds Jerry Hairston Jr.
   289. Dan Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:21 PM (#3276024)
Sox got Kotchman back for Laroche. WTF?
   290. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:25 PM (#3276029)
WTF, indeed. I liked Larouche in Fenway a lot. What are we missing here?
   291. tfbg9 Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3276045)
EB sez its final:

3:19 p.m. The Globe's Tony Massarotti confirms that, according to a baseball source, the Red Sox have traded Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price to the Indians for Victor Martinez.
   292. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:34 PM (#3276050)
#284--Thanks!
   293. Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'. Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3276053)
Kotchman is 2009's Minky.

And he actually hit a bit in July, is controllable and has an option.
   294. Dan Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:37 PM (#3276056)
I don't really like the Laroche - Kotchman swap. Laroche seemed like a good fit in Fenway, and seemed like he was okay as a role player on a winning team. Kotchman is a better glove though, which might fit the Sox's desires better for a bench 1B.
   295. Tripon Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3276065)
Rolen traded to the Reds. Has to waive his NTR though.
   296. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3276071)
If Rolen goes, does that mean a Halladay deal is coming (12 minutes left)?
   297. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3276072)
do the Indians use Masterson as a starter?
   298. Joel W Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:53 PM (#3276082)
The Minky comparison sounds right. With Martinez, Laroche's bat becomes expendable, so a backup who can play defense becomes more important. I did like Laroche in Fenway though.
   299. Tripon Posted: July 31, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3276086)
The Braves really screwed up the Mark Texieria trade last year.

Didn't trade for Kendry Morales, decided to take Kotchman instead, and then flipped him for Adam LaRoche.
   300. OCD SS Posted: July 31, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3276091)
Pencils down.
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