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   1. John DiFool2 Posted: June 18, 2007 at 02:14 AM (#2407599)
If Kotteras wasn't doing so crappily at AAA I'd say release BeerBelly and bring him up.
   2. Rough Carrigan Posted: June 18, 2007 at 03:26 AM (#2407744)
The weird thing about Bard is that he supposedly caught Wakefield one way in spring training and was decent at it, then decided to do it differently in the regular season and sucked. Very weird.
   3. Darren Posted: June 18, 2007 at 03:32 AM (#2407746)
What'd he do differently?

I remember after the trade that Wakefield said that Bard had been working extremely hard and he felt bad that it didn't work out. Why wouldn't it have occurred to either of them (or the coaches) to go back to the ST way?
   4. ian Posted: June 18, 2007 at 03:38 AM (#2407748)
How is it that someone figures that 38 WP are approximately equal to 12 RS?
   5. Darren Posted: June 18, 2007 at 03:53 AM (#2407751)
Very quickly and crudely. The difference between a single and a double (and between a double and a triple and a triple and an HR), IIRC, is about .3 runs. So I used that as an approximation. On the one hand, that's probably low because you might have a couple runners on base at the time of a PB/WP. On the other hand, it may be high because basehits also drive in runs.

Then again... Palmer's BR have a SB as worth .3, and Furtado's XR has it at .18. Again, you may have a couple runners moving up on any given PB/WP, so it may be a bit more than those numbers. If we bump it up to .5 runs per WP/PB, it's 19 runs, and the overall trade is still a big negative.
   6. Honkie Kong Posted: June 18, 2007 at 04:09 AM (#2407760)
won't RA be a better stat in that comparison to ERA? Scorers are rather whimsical when deciding ebtween PBs and WPs. Also SBs allowed?
   7. Darren Posted: June 18, 2007 at 04:15 AM (#2407766)
RA might be better, but it would double count runs that scored on WPs. In my statistical comparison of Bard and Mirabelli, I do not credit Bard for Wakefield's lower ERA with him behind the plate. I only included it to show that Mirabelli had no such advantage. There was some discussion at the time that throwing to Mirabelli gave him a greater comfort zone, allowing him to pitch better. The numbers do not bear that out.

SBs and CS would be points of interest as well. That would take a bit more legwork than I had time for. Overall, I think we're still looking at a somewhat similar conclusion.
   8. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 18, 2007 at 10:47 AM (#2407833)
We should explore a trade. I hear from Angel fans that they nearly ruined Jeff Mathis, and they've got CONGER THE KOREAN SLUGGER (god that sounds awesome) coming up behind him. Maybe a trade?

Also, get that guy we drafted this year signed. Signability issues/hitting ability be damned, I heard he's a great defensive catcher, and we need that in the system right now, or otherwise in 3 years we STILL might have Mirabelli catching.
   9. philly Posted: June 19, 2007 at 02:25 AM (#2408935)
So what next with the backup catcher position given that we want to continue to roll over Wakefield's very attractive 4M option?

We tend to be biased towards prospects with bargains or undervalued players whose signing expresses the "smartness" of the FO.

But something needs to be done and it doesn't look Kottaras will fill the prospect angle and arguably the mere existence of this thread is compelling evidence we shouldn't look to the "smartness" of the FO in this area either.

So what's next? The only thing I can think of is to find a veteran backstop in the poor starter, very good backup mold like a Rod Barajas and sign him for 2-3M and make that investment and the "veteran-ness" of the player be grounds for everybody to buy into him. Of course, they have to be convinced this guy will be adequate catching the knuckleball, but I'm just no buying that adequate is impossible to find. Wake (and probably the other players too) gave up on Bard because he was young and cheap and fungible (to them), but a veteran with a contract won't be seen that way and that will buy the guy enough time to become adequate with the knuckler. That would be the theory anyway.
   10. jordan Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:11 AM (#2408997)
I remember reading that Wakefield said he would only play as long as Mirabelli is his catcher. I am not sure if he could be convinced to change his mind, but this may be an issue.
   11. Darren Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:27 AM (#2409015)
We tend to be biased towards prospects with bargains or undervalued players whose signing expresses the "smartness" of the FO.


You do? I tend to be biased toward homegrown guys and guys who are under arb control.

The only thing I can think of is to find a veteran backstop in the poor starter, very good backup mold like a Rod Barajas and sign him for 2-3M and make that investment and the "veteran-ness" of the player be grounds for everybody to buy into him. Of course, they have to be convinced this guy will be adequate catching the knuckleball, but I'm just no buying that adequate is impossible to find. Wake (and probably the other players too) gave up on Bard because he was young and cheap and fungible (to them), but a veteran with a contract won't be seen that way and that will buy the guy enough time to become adequate with the knuckler. That would be the theory anyway.


Geez, I hope to hell this wasn't up to Wake or any other player. My worry is that you go out and spend $3 mil on a backup catcher and he can't catch the knuckler. Then what?

I'm not at all sure what the solution is. Maybe the best thing to do is just get a good/decent backup and grin and bear it. or maybe you stick with Mirabelli and figure that brief descent into crappiness is just that. How fast can we promote Still and/or Wagner? What about Jeremy Brown, can we pick him up? :)
   12. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: June 19, 2007 at 06:10 AM (#2409115)
I remember reading that Wakefield said he would only play as long as Mirabelli is his catcher. I am not sure if he could be convinced to change his mind, but this may be an issue.

Does Wakefield know that asshat is costing him run support?
   13. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: June 19, 2007 at 03:28 PM (#2409390)
Who catches Charlie Zink? Seems like having a knuckle-ball pitcher in the minors would be a great opportunity to see if catchers can work with it. Does his knuckler move differently than Wakefield's?
   14. villageidiom Posted: June 20, 2007 at 11:45 AM (#2410592)
Does his knuckler move differently than Wakefield's?
Dunno. How does Wakefield's knuckler move?

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