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   1. Dan Posted: May 28, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4141711)
Pedroia hurt now. The injuries will never end.
   2. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 28, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4141732)
Initial report is just a ” jammed thumb”.

so, cancer?
   3. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 28, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4141741)
Initial report is just a ” jammed thumb”.
By Labor Day, they'll be amputating his arm
   4. Mattbert Posted: May 28, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4141758)
Jammed thumb -> strained ligament(s) -> torn ligaments -> bone chips -> gangrene -> amputation.

It's not too far-fetched, really.
   5. Chip Posted: May 28, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4141780)
I'm betting on a MRSA infection instead of gangrene.
   6. rlc Posted: May 28, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4141795)
I think we can all agree that the current club is the least talented club the Sox have put on the field.


The survivors of this edition are pleased to be taken off the hook.
   7. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 28, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4141809)
Heh, left out a "of recent vintage" or something similar I guess.

And even if Pedroia is out for awhile, we've got Punto so we're good...right?
   8. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 30, 2012 at 01:27 AM (#4142764)
guys who go into nibble mode when things aren’t working for them (Lester, Buchholz and Bard all seem to get into this mode).

Good to see everyone has finally graduated from the Dice-K school of Nibbledom University. Phil Coorey eat your heart out!

Pedroia hurt now. The injuries will never end.

Posters 2,3,4 and 5 are waaay too negative. In true fashion, the medical staff will merely advise "rest" and THEN may act when it doesn't heal by August 20th.

   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 30, 2012 at 06:23 AM (#4142788)
"Slight tear" in the adductor muscle of his left thumb. Pedroia wants to put a brace on it and just play through. Someone tranquilize the little man.

He'll miss 3-4 weeks. If they let him try to play through, he'll suck and then tear the thing off the bone and miss the rest of the season.

With Pedroia out 3-4 weeks, the Red Sox need to find a stopgap 2B. The internal options are Ciriaco and Punto (yecch), or Iglesias to short and Aviles to second (probably not any better, plus you risk injuring Aviles). This demands a trade. Maybe, maybe, you could say that the ridiculous, I'll just play with a torn muscle in my bottom hand stuff is an attempt at a smokescreen for the trade market? Nah, that's just Pedey being Pedey.
   10. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 30, 2012 at 08:48 AM (#4142821)
So if they DO make a trade, who are the options that are likely to be better than Punto? I realize Punto is not exactly Rogers Hornsby but good second basemen don't grow on trees and teams that have them don't unload them. Just looking at teams likely willing to move players;

Minnesota - Alexi Casilla - One more arb year and then FA so his salary will jump. The Twins may find a prospect more interesting than paying him $2.5-3 million next year.
Kansas City - Irving Falu and Johnny Giavotella
Oakland - Jemile Weeks - Not happening
Seattle - Dustin Ackley - Not happening
San Diego - Orlando Hudson - Pass/Everth Cabrera - Not happening
Colorado - Marco Scutaro - We know what we're getting, do we want to pick up $4 million for that? Some OBP, not much range, this trade is looking good right now, I love the guy but don't feel compelled to have him rush back.
Cubs - Darwin Barney - He's still a year away from arbitration so there is no rush for the Cubs to move him. Not so good that Theo would feel like he had to keep him though if the Sox made a decent offer, you're giving up the glove for a little pop.
Houston - Jose Altuve - Not happening

Not a perfect list, I didn't go looking for utility types or anything like that. There are probably some outside the box type options that exist but the guy that looks attainable at a reasonable price and likely to help is probably Casilla though I may be misreading how much the Twins like him.
   11. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 30, 2012 at 08:58 AM (#4142829)
I assume they'd go looking for utility types. This guy just needs to be better than Nicky Punto for a month or two - you acquire a starting second baseman with a plan to bench him after the All-Star Game, and you've created an unnecessary hassle in the clubhouse. Plus you don't want to pay mid-season retail price for a regular when you're not planning to play him regularly.

Blake DeWitt from the Cubs is the first guy I thought of. He shouldn't really cost anything - maybe a minor league relief arm. He can play the position and post a not-entirely-embarrassing OPS.

One little thing. Rest-of-season ZiPS projection for LNP: 238/328/325. If he can do that, he's playable at second. I'm skeptical he can do that.
   12. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 30, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4142995)
Am I the only one who feels this is a bit unseemly? I get the need to replace him, but there is something off about this. I just have this vision of a NESN reality show coming out of this.


Red Sox president Larry Lucchino called into WEEI’s Dennis & Callahan show this morning and said the team will hold tryouts to replace Carl Beane as Fenway Park’s PA announcer. Beane died of a heart attack while driving in Sturbridge on May 9.


Lucchino also said he’s been speaking to his assistant, Dr. Charles Steinberg, about an idea to have the PA announcer say the balls and strikes count after each pitch, but said since no one has done this, he would have to get permission from Major League Baseball “down the road"...

Lucchino said the tryouts are on an invitation-only basis.
   13. Dan Posted: May 30, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4142997)
Why the hell do you need tryouts? Presumably if you know these guys' voices well enough to think they're worthy of an invitation, you should have heard their voices enough to know which one you like best already.
   14. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4144986)
If you are like me and wondering why the Sox don't call up Iglesias to avoid having Middlebrooks play shortstop in a desperate situation here is your answer.

Red Sox shortstop prospect Jose Iglesias was in Boston Thursday for a medical evaluation of the ongoing lower back stiffness that has kept him out of action for Triple-A Pawtucket for the last six days. While a team source said that the condition is "not a significant issue," he is expected to miss a few more games
   15. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4145064)
MLB Trade Rumors has Danny Knobler of CBS Sports saying the Sox "intend" to trade Youk. It's a tweet from Knobler so there is no substance, but I think the use of "intend" rather than "are exploring" or some such is at least interesting. I don't know anything about Knobler so I don't know how much (if any) weight to give it. I think Youk has been good enough since his return from the DL that a market probably does exist and that the Sox probably are better with him than without him.
   16. jmurph Posted: June 01, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4145078)
and that the Sox probably are better with him than without him.


Ditto. What is the thinking here? In some magical world where you could get a cromulent starting pitcher or legit corner outfielder for him, then sure. But I can't imagine that being the case, given his age and recent injury history- not to mention that anyone aquiring Youkilis is probably in win-now mode, and thus not giving up major league talent. I also can't imagine anyone in their right mind being comfortable with the depth on the current Sox team given the insane injuries so far this year. Middlebrooks will probably pick up a fractured skull in the shower the day Youkilis gets dealt.
   17. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 01, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4145084)
Lucchino also said he’s been speaking to his assistant, Dr. Charles Steinberg, about an idea to have the PA announcer say the balls and strikes count after each pitch, but said since no one has done this, he would have to get permission from Major League Baseball “down the road"...
That sounds incredibly annoying.
   18. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4145091)
I'm never of the opinion that a player should be "untouchable", any player, mid-prime Babe Ruth even, should be tradeable IF the trade makes the team better. If you start with the premise that Middlebrooks is close enough to Youkilis that the decline would be offset by the improvement at the position you get in return what do the Sox target?

Starting pitching - Something better than Daniel Bard is the bar here. Not sure what is available there.

Relief Pitching - If they trade Youkilis for a reliever I'm taking a human life. Alternatively, you could view acquiring a starter as relief help by virtue of moving Bard to the bullpen if the Sox want to go that route. I think that is best done (at least at first) by giving the ball to Daisuke a few times.

Outfield - A big slugger might be a good fit. The A's have a dude in right who is hitting homers, he might help. The outfield version of Kevin Youkilis probably would be a worthwhile exchange. Is Middlebrooks + OF Youkilis > Youkilis + Sweeney? (OF Youkilis = Josh Willingham maybe?)

Second base - When Pedroia comes back next week and rips the thumb tendon and is out for the year this might be a spot for a move.

Shortstop - Aviles has done a great job but he's a guy that can be improved upon probably but good shortstops don't get moved very often.

The problem with all of these is you are going to have to trade Kevin Youkilis to a contender or go for the Theo Epstein Memorial Magnum Opus Seven Team Trade. A "seller" is not going to have any interest in acquiring Youk straight up and a contender probably isn't going to be interested in dealing a player who represents an upgrade over what the Sox already have.
   19. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4145108)
What is the thinking here? In some magical world where you could get a cromulent starting pitcher or legit corner outfielder for him, then sure.
Right. It's always a good idea to make good trades that improve the team, but that's close to a tautology.

The logic under which it makes sense to "intend" to trade Youkilis is if he has very little value to the team compared to his trade value. If Youkilis' defense is really bad, and Middlebrooks is a competent MLB hitter, that could be the case. Youkilis' defensive stats are perfectly fine in a small sample, however. I'm not entirely sold on Middlebrooks - that K/BB is not good - and I'd much rather err on the side of having depth in hitters who can get on base.

I can imagine the evaluations and analysis under which intending to trade Youk makes sense, but my own evaluations don't accord with those imagined evaluations, and I think the imagined logic is at least partly faulty. (And, of course, the wording of one tweet is pretty weak evidence that those are the evaluations or analysis of the Red Sox baseball ops staff.)
   20. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4145114)
#18 makes a good point. Certainly you only trade Youkilis for a player who significantly ungrades the club over the rest of the season. With all of Kalish, Ellsbury, Ross, and Crawford expected back in the next two months or so, plus Nava and Sweeney playing solid ball, how large is the value of adding another OF? It's certainly more than possible that some of those guys will face setbacks, but how certain would the club be that at least two of them will?

The starting rotation could really use another arm, but the story from Lucchino and Cherington about Oswalt is that they didn't think they needed another arm at Oswalt's level, and it's hard to imagine the Sox getting someone that much better than Oswalt for Youkilis.
   21. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4145119)
This also goes to my heuristic for the trade deadline. There are two kinds of good trades that a contender can make:

(a) Trade for a major league contributor to upgrade a replacement level position, or
(b) Trade for an All-Star to upgrade an averageish position

Obviously an (ab) where you get an All-Star where previously you had Nicky Punto is the best kind. The problem with the Youkilis rumor is that it's hard to imagine Youkilis bringing back a legitimate star to upgrade an averageish position like SS or corner OF, and it's hard identify where the Red Sox expect to have replacement level production over the course of the rest of the year. CF is a gaping hole right now, but if any of Ellsbury or Kalish or even Crawford comes back healthy, they can take over the position. The back of the rotation is a candidate, but what contending club trades away good pitchers in midsummer?
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4145124)
Would Arizona be a possible trade partner?

They seem like a team that might have a SP surplus. And even if they don't get back into contention this year, they are not in re-building mode and could use Youk's 2013.
   23. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4145170)
The other problem, here, is that the Sox need Youkilis right now. He's playing most games. If Youkilis left right now, we'd be looking at a significant downgrade in run-scoring, which I'm unsold would be matched by an equal improvement in defense. And this is not a fleeting depth problem - I guess that maybe Ryan Kalish could return in two weeks in a best-case scenario, but that's at least two more weeks before trading Youkilis wouldn't significantly harm the offense.
   24. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4145174)
They seem like a team that might have a SP surplus. And even if they don't get back into contention this year, they are not in re-building mode and could use Youk's 2013.


Looking at Arizona there isn't a pitcher they'd give up that would make sense for the Sox and I don't think the Sox deal Youk for Jason Kubel.

The White Sox similarly don't seem to have any players the Sox would want.

Milwaukee?? Might they view Youk as a 1st base upgrade and be willing to deal a pitcher? That seems a bit hopeful from the Sox perspective but that might be a place to start a conversation.

I also think it's even money at best that any team would pick up Youk with 2013 in mind. $13 million for a guy who clearly is declining next year is a tough one. At best Youk is still effective but limited in terms of playing time, at worst you pick up a $13 million .240 hitter.
   25. Nasty Nate Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4145187)
Looking at Arizona there isn't a pitcher they'd give up that would make sense for the Sox


Youkilis for Saunders plus something?
Youkilis plus something for Kennedy?

The Snakes have Bauer down in the minors chopping down hitters like trees.
   26. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4145191)
The survivors of this edition are pleased to be taken off the hook.

WHY THE HECK DID THEY TRADE HOWARD EHMKE FOR BABY DOLL JACOBSON? Ira Flagstead can't carry the whole outfield himself.
   27. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4145198)
The starting rotation could really use another arm, but the story from Lucchino and Cherington about Oswalt is that they didn't think they needed another arm at Oswalt's level, and it's hard to imagine the Sox getting someone that much better than Oswalt for Youkilis.


Youkilis for Saunders plus something?
Youkilis plus something for Kennedy?


Assuming what MCoA heard to be true I don't see Saunders or Kennedy getting the Sox' motor running.

The Snakes need to call Bauer up largely because my fantasy team took a shot in the nuts this week when Weaver went down.
   28. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4145291)
Kennedy certainly would interest the Sox, but he's got three more seasons of arb control after this one. The only way the Diamondbacks trade him for Youkilis is if they trade him for good prospects plus Youkilis.
   29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4145296)
Official denial from Cherington, which he emailed to WEEI this afternoon:
"That’s inaccurate. Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup."
   30. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4145320)
"That’s inaccurate. Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup."


Not to get too ridiculous on how closely I read that (OK, I'm getting a bit ridiculous) but "we haven't told any teams we plan to trade him" is very different from "we have told teams we don't have plans to trade him." If I'm a GM and I hear the first I think "hmmm...they're willing to listen", the latter will have me thinking "they need to be blown away."
   31. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4145355)
Sure. For me, the only objectionable thing in the report was the "intend" part. Being perfectly open to trading Kevin Youkilis is the right approach.
   32. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 01, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4145368)
Knobler's use of "intend", whether or not intentional and directly quoted to him, changes the structure of the discussion.

This is one of the things I hate about Twitter. It's one thing to have a story blow up based on some information and analysis but Knobler uses one key word and really with no attribution of note and no analysis on his part the story blows up. PeteAbe has a blog post up that concludes with "prepare yourself for the Sox to be active on the trade market. At this point, it's not if, it's when." despite nothing more than guesswork, there is no thought or analysis involved other than "Jacoby Ellsbury is a Scott Boras client."

I am not trying to slap Knobler around, like I said I don't know him from a hole in the ground. I have no doubt that he was reporting what he was told accurately but Twitter allows the writers to avoid any sort of critical thinking. I think the biggest failing that a lot of the MSM writers have is that they get information and run with it without any "does this make sense" consideration. Knobler says the Sox "intend" to trade Youk, Cafardo reports that several teams are looking at him and then everyone runs with Cherington's denial but none of these people takes the time or effort to put together a full story.

Rant over.

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